Meat in the wild

[backtobasics]

Wow, that actually sounds like a good name for a get together.
Not why i started this thread tho. Anyway, to my question. I've made jerky before and in some cases very primitive (hanging over a wood stove on fishing string) but always with spices. My question is (and yes i did a search and did not find the answer) if your in the wild and are lucky enough to have lots o meat but no spices, what is the best way to preserve the meat so it does not spoil? If a person is alone, or even a couple of people and you take down a deer your not going to comsume it all in one day. So how do you make it last? Thanks in advance for your help MIKE

[wildWoman]

You could smoke it it lightly. If you don't use a marinade that will also act as an inhibitor to bacterial growth, you'll want to cut the pieces really nice and thin so the drying time is shortened. Smoke, as far as I know, also inhibits the growth of microorganisms on your meat.

[crashdive123]

I pulled this info from the net (have never tried it, but have heard from several sources the same thing.

Preserve Meat in the Wild




Slice your kill into long, thin strips; knead tons of salt into it, then cover the meat (to keep the flies off) and let it sit for four hours. Then spread it out under a hot sun for a few days to dry it, or smoke it over burning green twigs for 24 hours. When dry and shriveled, the meat will last a year and can be eaten right from the jerky bag.

[Sarge47]

I pulled this info from the net (have never tried it, but have heard from several sources the same thing.

Preserve Meat in the Wild Slice your kill into long, thin strips; knead tons of salt into it, then cover the meat (to keep the flies off) and let it sit for four hours. Then spread it out under a hot sun for a few days to dry it, or smoke it over burning green twigs for 24 hours. When dry and shriveled, the meat will last a year and can be eaten right from the jerky bag.
I've read where rubbing black pepper will also help keep the flies off of the meat.:cool:

[Rick]

In essence, what you are doing is dehydrating the meat. No moisture, no spoilage. The spices probably add some to anti-bacterial growth but, for the most part, are just for taste, If you smoke the meat, hang it over a fire, lay it in the sun, or place it in the oven, the end result is dehydrated meat. Your only other option that I could think of would be to salt it.

[backtobasics]

Thanks guys ( when i say guys i mean girls too) I kinda thought if it was sliced thin and dried that it would be OK, but i wasn't sure and i don't want to find out the hard way. I know about salt but most times I'm in the bush its only for a day or two (unless i get stranded) and i have no salt. I figured that if a person sliced it thin and smoked it that that would be good but i was not sure. I still wonder how long it would last?

[crashdive123]

If completely dried, I would think that it should last at least a year.

[Cannonman17]

You don't really need the salt at all, what is important is fast processing. Once the meat is cut you need to act fast to get it hung up in the smoke. It doesn't need very much time in the smoke to develope a thin shiny lining over it and that by itself is enough to keep the flies off of it. They don't seem to be interested in dry surfaces. From there on out the longer you can keep it in the smoke the better. Don't cook it, keep it as high as you can (within reason) above the fire but where it's still in the thick smoke... the smoke itself has some preservitive qualities, don't use any conifers for the smoke.. just about any hardwood will due. The longer you keep it in the smoke (days even) the better off you will be. It might not store quite as long as meat that is simply lightly smoked and completely dehydrated but it will have a little better consistancy and taste in my humble opinion.

[Rick]

I have some jerky in the cupboard that I made around August sometime. It's still perfectly good.

[crashdive123]

I've never had much success in keeping jerky around too long. Seems to disappear rather quickly.

[backtobasics]

My jerky never last long enough to go bad either. Thanks cannonman thats some good info. Hardwood only no conifers, do you know why? Hardwood is hard to come by where i live. Its around, but i guess one should use it sparingly.

[Rick]

The same reason your don't use conifers to grill with. They are high in resin and will give your food a yucky flavor.

The key to dehydrating is low heat over a long period of time. About 200-220F for the temperature. You want your meat in the 165F range but not a lot above that. You can estimate the temperature of your campfire by how long you can hold your hand about 4" above the hot coals. 50 degrees for every second. 8 seconds is about 200F. 7 seconds is 250F so between 7 and 8 seconds with give you just about the right heat. Notice I said coals. You don't want flames.

For true smoking, there are two methods, hot smoking and cold smoking. I don't do either one so I'll let someone else talk to that but I do know that cold smoking temps are down around 70 - 90F, hence the name.

[wareagle69]

see i take a problem with the conifer debate about the use of it, i as you all know cook my meat on a fire pit the only way i cook it and 90 percent of the time it is with evergreen wood white red and tammarack balsam and spruce and my food tastes great as just rick said it is the coals not the flames that you want and as far as my experience goes the resins of the pines are all burned off and it is just the heat of the coals that you are using

[backtobasics]

see i take a problem with the conifer debate about the use of it, i as you all know cook my meat on a fire pit the only way i cook it and 90 percent of the time it is with evergreen wood white red and tammarack balsam and spruce and my food tastes great as just rick said it is the coals not the flames that you want and as far as my experience goes the resins of the pines are all burned off and it is just the heat of the coals that you are using


Thats what i was thinking. If a person is using dry wood, and let it burn down to coals, i figured it would be alright. Maybe I'm wrong? Correct me if I am.

[Rick]

Interesting. You don't have any off flavors from the pine? I've always adhered to conventional wisdom and haven't cooked with it staying with the harder woods instead. You wouldn't smoke meat with it would do you? You're just cooking, right?

[wareagle69]

to smoke meat what do you need? smoke then no but heat is different not flames just heat and yes most of my life i have cooked with pine never knew any better till i got here and can't say i'm going to change my direction on this topic

[crashdive123]

As you say, the difference is smoke. Coals to produce heat (hardwood will last longer) with green wood to produce smoke. With that green wood producing the smoke comes the resin. Now for just drying or cooking - shouldn't matter - just need more soft wood because of long drying time.

[wareagle69]

i concour....

[tacmedic]

You don't have to smoke it if you don't have access to smoking materials. As long as the meat is sliced thin enough (less than an eigth to a quarter of an inch thick) the flies will stay away from it, if it is too thick then the flies will try to lay their eggs in it. You can then hang the meat in the sun to dry. If it is not dry at the end of a day in the sun you should cover it or brink it inside at night to keep moisture away from it. When I was a kid I dried meat this way in the summer while I was spending time "camping" in the back yard. There are also numerous pictures of native american tribes drying buffalo meat on huge racks in the sun after hunts with no sign of smoking.
http://www.his.com/~njohn/wow/villagefull.htm

http://www.archives.gov/research/native-americans/pictures/select-list-061.html

Now, this is definately not going to have as much flavor as meat that has been salted and smoked, but it will be preserved.

[Cannonman17]

Thats what i was thinking. If a person is using dry wood, and let it burn down to coals, i figured it would be alright. Maybe I'm wrong? Correct me if I am.

You can cook anything on coals of just about any wood out there with very minor differences in taste. Smoking with green wood is WAY different, you cold smoke some venison with some tamerack and it will be nearly inedible when done. Unless you really like the pine taste of course.

I have a book all about cold smoking and when I move back to the country I'm planning on building a cold smoke hut. Cold smoking allows meat to hang in your kitchen or basement for LONG periods of time as it is totally preserved. Hot smoking stuff will preserve it, but not to the same degree. (no pun intended) Hot smoking is actually cooking and adding smoke flavor, cold smoking is only smoking for preserving and flavor.

[canid]

i personally love the smoke of cedar on my meat, and particularly pork. it certainly dosn't bear as much smoking before the taste gets strong, but this only nessecetates a shorter smoking, if you can further dry without the smoke. this can also be countered by diffusing the smoke or raising the meat to be dried higher above where the smoke is most concentrated. what really matters is that the air is dry and moving. the smoke is just a booster to preservation during the drying proccess, flavoring and a repellant to insects.

[crashdive123]

Sarge - Move to Survival Food

[Nativedude]

Backtobasics wrote: My question is, if your in the wild and are lucky enough to have lots o meat but no spices, what is the best way to preserve the meat so it does not spoil? If a person is alone, or even a couple of people and you take down a deer your not going to comsume it all in one day. So how do you make it last? Thanks in advance for your help MIKE

Mike,

I (we) live in the wild backcountry of AK. Every year, during hunting season, we take a Caribou or two. We have a hanging smoker that we use. It takes 2 days to smoke the quarters (whole), ribs, flank, neck, etc. Smoking the meat in this way keeps the meat from going rancid and it tastes really good as well. It keeps for as long as it takes us to completely consume it, about 5-6 months per animal. If we make sausage or burger from any of the meat we smoke it after processing it. We then wrap the meat with a canvas tarp and hang the meat in our food cache to keep away the insects and critters. In the winter we bring a quarter inside the cabin at a time to use and keep it from freezing.

During the summer we catch and eat fish fresh from the river near our cabin. In the fall (during the salmon run) we catch as many as we can and salt or smoke them. We get 25# bags of sea salt from Seward and use it for salting the fish and cooking. A 25# bags last us about a year. :D

We also trap rabbit (snowshoe hare), marmot, beaver, fox, etc. Which we treat the same (smoke) and eat throughout the year.

[RBB]

Wow, that actually sounds like a good name for a get together.
Not why i started this thread tho. Anyway, to my question. I've made jerky before and in some cases very primitive (hanging over a wood stove on fishing string) but always with spices. My question is (and yes i did a search and did not find the answer) if your in the wild and are lucky enough to have lots o meat but no spices, what is the best way to preserve the meat so it does not spoil? If a person is alone, or even a couple of people and you take down a deer your not going to comsume it all in one day. So how do you make it last? Thanks in advance for your help MIKE

My grandfather smoked a lot of his meat. He always said fruit wood was the best for smoking meat, though he often used sugar maple, for meat, or sometimes alder for fish. Alder works fine for fish, but gives meat a very harsh taste.

I usually use apple - as I have several apple trees. I cut the meat against the grain - so it is easier to eat. I smoke it until it is dry a a bone - unlike the jerk you buy in the store. It lasts longer that way. With the apple wood flavour you can get by with no salt. I have some hanging that is five years old and is still edible, though I'm not sure how much food value it retains at that age.

[Riverrat]

I have never smoked meat, but an uncle told me that apple tree wood was really good for smoking meat.

[justin_baker]

How should it be stored if you dont have jars, cans, or any air tight containers? (or no plastic ziplocks for that matter)

[your_comforting_company]

Rawhide pouches were made, sewn together and sealed with fat to make them water repellent. Jerked meat was added to the pouch, either by itself, with other fruit treats, or made into pemmican which is basically meat and fruit and nuts mixed together for the trail. The rawhide pouch was the container, and sometimes pottery items were used.
It's not really critical that it be airtight, just moisture resistant. For the most part, there was no "long-term" storage. Probably the longest anything was stored was a few months over winter.

[Beans]

Thanks guys ( when i say guys i mean girls too) I kinda thought if it was sliced thin and dried that it would be OK, but i wasn't sure and i don't want to find out the hard way. I know about salt but most times I'm in the bush its only for a day or two (unless i get stranded) and i have no salt. I figured that if a person sliced it thin and smoked it that that would be good but i was not sure. I still wonder how long it would last?

Not meaning to be smart *** but the addition of salt & pepper to your gear doesn't seem to me like a big thing. The quantity needed isn't large and the weight shouldn't matter. Stow it -forget it until it is needed.

FWIW Hot sauce going with almost everything.

[crimescene450]

you smoke it starting raw right?

[Rick]

CS - Generally that is correct. Whether you are in the wilds of some forest or the wilds of your back yard you start with some raw piece of meat and then smoke it. The smoke creates some chemical changes within the meat and on the surface. In essence, that's the difference between a smoked ham and just a salty pork roast.

When you smoke meat, you are establishing an area around the meat that is moisture free. That it turns pulls the moisture out of the deep muscles of the meat, in a roast, or out of the layers of meat in something like a fish. You can easily see a 50% loss in weight just from the loss of moisture in the meat. The less fat the better since the fat can go rancid and/or change the flavor of the meat. That's much more likely to occur in the wild but it can happen at home too.

The meat will develop a pink color. That's due to the chemical change caused by the smoke. I know what the chemical is but it escapes me at the moment. Someone chime in if they know the chemical in smoke that actually cures the meat.

You can also brine meat, salt meat, can meat and pickle meat. All methods of preserving meat. Hope that helps.

[crimescene450]

and one more question

we use green wood for the smoke, should we include the leaves on the branches? or take them off and just use the wood part?

[Rick]

All you need is the limb. What you're interested in is the smoke. The leaves and stems will probably give you flare up. I've honestly never tried to smoke anything with leaves or stems.

[Wise Old Owl]

Wow, folks not to many of you have read Foxfire huh? I got though half the posts and saw a clear McCandless moment. So how many of you are willing to eat what you wrote?

I may be new, but it doesn't take much to see bad information in this thread.

please take a moment and understand I did not single anyone out here.

Exception, smoking requires better than 170 degrees for a long period of time, Nativedude and Rick alluded to it. but I wrote this after reading the first page and there are some moments here.

Traditional Smoke houses 200 plus year old tech.....


http://www.oldhalifax.com/county/images/AdkissonSmokeHouse.jpg

[Wise Old Owl]

I have never smoked meat, but an uncle told me that apple tree wood was really good for smoking meat.

Because it added a "sweet sappy" wonderful flavor. I just picked up a couple of bags for pork spare ribs and chicken breasts... I will add some Pappys XXX BBQ at the last couple of minutes.....mmmm!

[Sourdough]

I've been taught that some meats, such a bear, need to be thoroughly cooked to a certain temperature, just like pork. I question if just smoking at relatively low heat is safe for certain meats?



Trichinosis is nearly non-existent in wild bears at this time. And even if, on the remote chance one acquired Trichinosis it not that big of a deal, even if left un-treated. Yes, it should be treated if possible. Trichinosis in meat can also be killed by freezing, the length of time needed is depended on the depth of the temperature. That said, bear meat does not lend it's self to low-temperature cooking, but makes great stew or strogganoff.

[Rick]

Likewise, Trichinosis is virtually unheard of in pork today. Most pork is massed produced in environmentally controlled barns and the porkers never see the light of day. Since they don't run around outside, they don't contract the parasite.

[Rick]

WOO - If you see bad info then you need to point it out. Be specific. Your post was vague, other than the temp., and doesn't address what you think is incorrect. You sure won't ruffle my hide if you think I posted something wrong. But bad info on food could get someone hurt so speak up.

[Wise Old Owl]

Rick you didn't post anything wrong... I was thinking how bad things were in the early days of transporting meat before Ammonia Refrigeration. That would be sailing vessels prior to 1875. Butchering was an art and most meats went bad quickly. Fresh Turtle caught at the surface, or taking live goats and sheep or a hog was the approved method back then. Hense "tons" of salt to dry out the meat and hanging to get the blood out. Pepper & flies? Pepper, French Sauces (Bernaise, Holendaise) English Gravies, were made to disguise rancid meat. Brining, smoking, cooking, like you said were very important back then. Cod all along the atlantic coast was sun dried with loads of salt to transport back to England.

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/museumoflondon/images/microsites/derivatives//exploring/058/mid/JA011.jpg

but a lot of people got sick and back then we could handle it...

http://www.companymagazine.org/v203/alaskap28.jpg

[Wise Old Owl]

Here I found this interesting read... Vinegar - Salt cure with hot sunny Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biltong

[Wise Old Owl]

Wow, that actually sounds like a good name for a get together.
Not why i started this thread tho. Anyway, to my question. I've made jerky before and in some cases very primitive (hanging over a wood stove on fishing string) but always with spices. My question is (and yes i did a search and did not find the answer) if your in the wild and are lucky enough to have lots o meat but no spices, what is the best way to preserve the meat so it does not spoil? If a person is alone, or even a couple of people and you take down a deer your not going to consume it all in one day. So how do you make it last? Thanks in advance for your help MIKE

OK I am focused now... Meat Prep is best done at the home prior to going out in the woods. Here is what you need to know right out of the manual for doing this work in the woods.

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/smokers-survival.htm

What has been left out is the "hours" of butchering the meat, removing the muscles, removing the fat and sinew and prying the bones apart from the carcass. Without a saw, several clean knives and a heavy chopping knife, the process would be longer.

Even if you have a clean kill one would hang the carcass for a day or two with the offal removed and gut open to and the neck cut to drain as much blood out to reduce moisture and the meat from going bad. Some hang a deer for three days in a "fly bag" as part of the process.

If you are really going to do this I suggest you start with rabbits around the house like I did, and put in some practice on the skills. Really make a smoke house out of your poncho and you will have some fun while your neighbors think your crazy.

[Rick]

sjj - I'm with you on be cautious. It only takes one time to make you sick. Good links!

WOO - good post. Lot's of good info!!

[Wise Old Owl]

Thanks Rick, you should have seen the look on my wife's face when she came home with the rascally wabbit on the kitchen table and blood all over the place.... When she came back later she had a great dinner.