PDA

View Full Version : What's better water filter or purifier?



marylp
10-23-2008, 12:17 AM
Hey Guys!! So now I am working on getting some kind of emergency water thing going but I am confused about filters and purifiers. Some say stay away from iodine tabs for longterm use, for occasional use only. I am hoping for something where I can filter or treat maybe one gallon at a time, but will be safe if I need it for a long time. I have also heard that filters are not as reliable as treatments. I am just not sure what to go with or what to look for. Some prices on both are out of my reach, right now I can spend maybe a hundred bucks. I am also hoping to find something portable. Any ideas? Filters? Purifiers? Help! Thanks Guys ! Mary

Sourdough
10-23-2008, 12:31 AM
Here is my theory, it is a working theory, and the theory works for me 100% of the time. My theory is live someplace where you can drink the water right out of the creek or lake, with no treatment or filtering. Just good pure water.

RBB
10-23-2008, 12:43 AM
Here is my theory, it is a working theory, and the theory works for me 100% of the time. My theory is live someplace where you can drink the water right out of the creek or lake, with no treatment or filtering. Just good pure water.

That was a viable theory prior to 1973 when some European, with giardia in his system, came over here and (apparently) took a dump in the water. Since that time, most everywhere in North America - you are subject to getting "Beaver Fever" if you drink unfiltered water.

If you are going to drink unfiltered water, get your water from the middle of a large lake. Be wary of drinking river water unless you are near the source and there is no beaver activity between you and that source. Beaver and deer are common carriers of giardia, and getting it will sure ruin your week.

I've never had it, but I've been on trips where someone in the party got it (drinking in a stream near a beaver lodge) and it is a pain in the gut. In areas where giardia is the only issue - a water filter will suffice. These can be purchased (locally at least) for between $15 and $30.

Sourdough
10-23-2008, 01:26 AM
Nearly 40 years drinking the water all over Alaska (accept the toilet Anchorage) never filtered or treated a drop, never a problem.

crashdive123
10-23-2008, 05:56 AM
Mary - here's a review of some filters http://www.thebackpacker.com/gear/water_filters/ I've got #15 on the list. I think Rick has said in the past that he has #21. If you shop around there are many that are within the price range you state. Keep in mind, now that you've got your emergency cooking figured out you can always boil water if you need to.

marylp
10-23-2008, 06:57 AM
Thank you Crash! The advice about drinking water from an Alaskan water source was not so useful to me, I did have visions of gut wrenching "Beaver Fever" while surrounded by the most be scenery.

crashdive123
10-23-2008, 07:08 AM
Here's something else to consider when talking about drinking untreated water.....the locals that have been drinking it all of their lives have, over time built up a resistance to whatever it is that may cause somebody new to the environment to get ill. Traveling to some areas of the world I could not even brush my teeth without using treated or bottled water, while the locals drank it like........well......like water.

marylp
10-23-2008, 08:21 AM
So, I should go ahead and stock up on let's say a filter for water used for drinking and cooking and iodine tabs for water used for hygiene purposes? Is it tru that iodine in not safe when used frequently? I went over that site , and with the mixed reviews I think I confused myself more. I always wondered if going by reviews alone is reason enough to buy or not to buy something. I have read reviews on items I was perfectly happy with and the reviews were horrible. This is different I must have clean water, I must have the most reliable product I can afford. The research continues!! Still the reviews scare me.

Tony uk
10-23-2008, 09:10 AM
So, I should go ahead and stock up on let's say a filter for water used for drinking and cooking and iodine tabs for water used for hygiene purposes? Is it tru that iodine in not safe when used frequently? I went over that site , and with the mixed reviews I think I confused myself more. I always wondered if going by reviews alone is reason enough to buy or not to buy something. I have read reviews on items I was perfectly happy with and the reviews were horrible. This is different I must have clean water, I must have the most reliable product I can afford. The research continues!! Still the reviews scare me.

Hmmm, i would say a purifier for any water you plan to ingest, A filter might clean the water of solid particles but only down to a certain size, If ant harmfull bacteria are smaller than this then they will become ineffective. One way would be to by a filter with a chemical purification system built in to it. This would do both jobs in one action and also save you time.

Sourdough
10-23-2008, 09:44 AM
So why do people not train their body to deal with the water? It just seems strange that people will train their body for new physical projects, why not train it to drink beaver water. We have lot of bugs in our bodies.

I can see the school books 80 years from now. Teaching about how the Americans could not adapt to their water, and all died off, and were replaced by the Mexicans who could drink the water.

When I used to travel to Mexico, The first thing I would do is stick my finger under the water outlet and lick it off, the next day do it three times, the next day drink a thimble full, then more and more as days went by.

They are now discovering that children in America raised on dairy farms, or cattle farms have fewer health problems later in life. Maybe America has sanitized everything to the point it is allergic to foods, dust, water. This can't be good long term.

When I was a kid and we were thirsty, we just stuck our head in the cows water trough, we swam in the same pond as the cows, and same creeks. Maybe hygiene is is great, or maybe it is killing Americans slowly. City water, Fluorinated water, bottled water, filters, pills.

We get flu shots, why can't they make Giardia antibody shot.

BraggSurvivor
10-23-2008, 09:59 AM
So why do people not train their body to deal with the water? It just seems strange that people will train their body for new physical projects, why not train it to drink beaver water. We have lot of bugs in our bodies.

I can see the school books 80 years from now. Teaching about how the Americans could not adapt to their water, and all died off, and were replaced by the Mexicans who could drink the water.

When I used to travel to Mexico, The first thing I would do is stick my finger under the water outlet and lick it off, the next day do it three times, the next day drink a thimble full, then more and more as days went by.

They are now discovering that children in America raised on dairy farms, or cattle farms have fewer health problems later in life. Maybe America has sanitized everything to the point it is allergic to foods, dust, water. This can't be good long term.

When I was a kid and we were thirsty, we just stuck our head in the cows water trough, we swam in the same pond as the cows, and same creeks. Maybe hygiene is is great, or maybe it is killing Americans slowly. City water, Fluorinated water, bottled water, filters, pills.

We get flu shots, why can't they make Giardia antibody shot.

Excellent post Hope and agree 100%.

I get a kick out people around here buying bottled water. Rivers and creeks flowing with crystal clear beautiful water from icefields high in the mountains and they paid $5.00 per jug. Complete dolts.

Most people have never tasted real water.

tsitenha
10-23-2008, 12:54 PM
Marylp, invest in a good purifyer, if you are in an unfamiliar water area purify, it's safer. Better to be safe than sick especialy in a stress situation.
Wether it is a chemical or mechanical purifyer treat all unknown water with caution. If it were for long term, I would filter the water first (get rid of the clogging elements), then pass it through a purifyer.
Long term mechanical over chemical, there always boiling in the even longer events.

marylp
10-23-2008, 01:05 PM
I am ready to invest, but I have not had any recommendations on any products. Maybe I should have asked what everyone else uses, Crash however mentioned one and one that Rick uses. I guess I was confused by the reviews. I really want to get it right. Clean water is so vital. We have a lake down the road from the house, if we had to bring water from there I want to be sure I can have a reliable product I can use. My problem is limited money, 100 bucks or so.

tsitenha
10-23-2008, 01:11 PM
I use an MSR water treatment pump, my buddy uses a Sweetwater puryfier both are good. Filter (gunk and sediments) and boil and get the best puryfier when you can afford it. My friend uses a ultra violet sterilizer for his house hold water after it goes through a filter.

Sourdough
10-23-2008, 01:26 PM
I am ready to invest, but I have not had any recommendations on any products. Maybe I should have asked what everyone else uses, Crash however mentioned one and one that Rick uses. I guess I was confused by the reviews. I really want to get it right. Clean water is so vital. We have a lake down the road from the house, if we had to bring water from there I want to be sure I can have a reliable product I can use. My problem is limited money, 100 bucks or so.

Do you have any friends that you care about.....? or neighbors that you like.....? or extended family or children. What do you do when your neighbor was to borrow it, and he loans it to his ????? and you need it back because your out of water. Maybe people need to buy 24 bottles of iodine, for neighbors and friends that don't plan ahead. But I think I read someplace Iodine is now controled substence.

What is wrong with bleach, and let it air over night.....?

crashdive123
10-23-2008, 05:42 PM
Mary - not to add to the jumble of thoughts running around in your head, but....... Here's some info that may be useful. Talks about iodine, chlorine, boiling, pasturizing, filtering, etc. http://www.scs-mall.com/text/infowater.htm

crashdive123
10-25-2008, 09:14 PM
....and yet a bit more information that I have found useful. http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/manual/water.shtml

Rick
10-26-2008, 07:46 AM
Mary,

Clean water is actually pretty easy to acquire. Unless it's polluted from chemicals, of course. You can use a two stage process if necessary to acquire a good quantity. You will need to 1. filter the water for any debris such as sediment, leaves, etc. You can use just about anything (like a cotton cloth) to remove the gunk. Then, 2. boil it. Let it cool and you have good water. That's a good way to make a lot if you are stationary. I assume you also have a hot water heater so you have stored 30, 40 or 50 gallons depending on the size.

If you are mobile then you need something that will deliver water quickly, isn't too large to carry conveniently, and is reliable. For that, I use an MSR Sweetwater purifier system and I also have a spare filter. Each filter will treat up to 750 liters (200 gallons), which is a lot of water if you are mobile. Two filters gives me 1500 liters. Of course, that depends on the turbidity of the water. The harder your filter has to work, the less water you will filter.

Any of the brand names will work, MSR and Katadyn are both well respected in their fields. You'll find some folks like one brand while others wouldn't own them. It's a bit of a personal choice. The MSR Sweetwater kit is around $80.

Just remember that whatever you choose to purchase if you are planning for some large scale, long term event that you believe will occur then, in the end, you going to be down to boiling water. Filters will clog up and you'll run out of any chemicals you have on hand. And that leaves you with only the ability to boil water. So understand that method better than all others.

I don't use iodine and I don't use bleach. Some folks are allergic to iodine and can have a deadly reaction to it. I've seen what it can do and it isn't pretty. I spent the better part of a night in an ER because of iodine ingestion and I thought a friend might just die. That was all I needed to say never again. Chemicals require proper dosages and waiting times and when you are stressed or cold or injured you might not be thinking straight and might not add the proper amount or wait the required amount of time. Then you have another new set of survival problems to deal with.

Hopeak - Building a natural resistance to Ghiardia is a bit lit building a natural resistance to HIV or Small Pox. I don't think it works that way. But, hey, if it works for you.....

SARKY
11-01-2008, 01:40 AM
I have an MSR miniworksII. it is a great filter. Nalgene bottles will screw right up to it or if you have a hydration bladder in your pack you can attacha tube to the nipple on the bottom of the filter and pump filtered water directly into your hydration bladder. The MSR is also easy to use one handed (in case you break an arm.)

S.E.R.E Guy
11-10-2008, 05:29 PM
Iodine tabs are not a bad thing. Some people say you can taste it but I haven't noticed. But for lots of water you can use bleach, just a few drops can do a gallon. but for small water such as a canteen or like a nalgene you can get a steril pen which uses uv light to scramble the bacteria making it good to drink instantly

bulrush
11-11-2008, 10:50 AM
So why do people not train their body to deal with the water? It just seems strange that people will train their body for new physical projects, why not train it to drink beaver water. We have lot of bugs in our bodies.

In theory you are correct. However, I would guess there is almost no market for such an immunization to giardia, since filters are not too expensive, and most other water is 1) chlorinated, or 2) already safe to drink (like from rural wells).



They are now discovering that children in America raised on dairy farms, or cattle farms have fewer health problems later in life. Maybe America has sanitized everything to the point it is allergic to foods, dust, water. This can't be good long term.

You are correct. I also read an article that talked about how women who worked on farms, their kids had almost no allergies to speak of. It has to do with fetal exposure to allergans in the womb.



When I was a kid and we were thirsty, we just stuck our head in the cows water trough, we swam in the same pond as the cows, and same creeks. Maybe hygiene is is great, or maybe it is killing Americans slowly. City water, Fluorinated water, bottled water, filters, pills.

We get flu shots, why can't they make Giardia antibody shot.

Again, I think we have the technology, but there is no market for such a shot. I.e. the small market would not support the high cost of developing such a shot.

red lake
11-11-2008, 06:46 PM
I suggest getting a ceramic filter. I prefer the Katadyn Combi model. It is heavier but the action is a single pump. The lever action pumps have more moving parts to break in the field. Ceramic filters will last way longer than the typical non-ceramic ones.

The Combi has an optional attachment that will attach to your tap.

No filter will work in below freezing temperatures.

Also, I understand Giardia takes 7 days to show up. Most likely those people who got sick on a trip didn't wipe after crapping and got sick that way. Gross but almost for certain true.

Badawg
11-13-2008, 06:47 PM
I have an MSR waterworks. Had it since '88. It's been all over the place, Deepest, darkest Mexico, The Sierras, Rockies, Central America, Russia, Turkey, Jordan and Syria to name a few. It's been a really good device. If it ever breaks I will replace with a Katadyn as they are smaller and lighter. In suspect areas I pre-treat with bleach or iodine...

Which brings me to Giardia... Had that from what had to be swimming in a creek in the Sierras a few years back. Believe me when I say you really don't want it... It's not fun at all! Had to go on a Cipro like drug to kill it too, and the cure is every bit as bad as the bug. It was like, 3 months before 'things' got back to normal... Btw, They made me collect 'samples' and turn them into the lab twice a week until it was gone and that was a major bummer too...

I use a two pronged method as I never want to go through that again!

RAT01
11-18-2008, 01:05 PM
If you're looking for a high quality filter & purifier, I would suggest the Berkey Water System. I have one, as well as the portable water bottles, and they filter and purify EVERYTHING.

crashdive123
11-18-2008, 05:33 PM
Thanks for the tip. When you get a chance, filter your way on over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks.

Rick
11-18-2008, 09:20 PM
Am I missing something? Berkey makes big honkin' filters. The travel size is like 1 foot and a half and it's over $200 bucks. Is that what you're talkin' about?

fishpole
11-25-2008, 12:04 AM
water purification tablets are my choice. easy to pack, but i have used a water filter or occasion when hunting deep into some harsh counting with friends. tablets leave a somewhat plastic taste to the water though, ya get used to it after a while.
-cory