Honor...is it a quality of the past?

[tsitenha]

For the last while I've noticed that honor, a quality that I admire very much is in very short supply.
Are we losing this virtue?
Whats next Loyalty?

[bulrush]

It's certainly in short supply in the US. Parents simply don't teach it to their kids, because THEIR parents didn't teach THEM. And on it goes. It gets worse because a single woman, in general, cannot raise a boy into a man. You need a strong masculine presence to guide the boy on his way.

You get more and more divorced/single mother households with no man presence. And you really need both. A mom can provide clothes, food, and a roof over the boy's head but a man provides guidance, which a woman cannot provide to a boy.

(I won't go into how a woman has no clue on how to raise a boy, because they overreact to what their "baby" does naturally, like bring snakes into the house, or catch frogs, or something.)

[nell67]

I beg to differ,Trax's dad passed away when he was very young,and I believe his mom did an outstanding job of raising 4 young boys into men.On her own.

[BraggSurvivor]

How many son's does Trax have Nell?

[trax]

Yeah, I wasn't going to mention that but there's another fella in this wolfpack who might want to make some similar points about his upbringing.

If children are shown an honorable example they will (generally, gasp!)grow up to live honorable lives. Is it in short supply these days? Probably, too many people want things the quick and easy way and often that's the less than honorable way to accomplish what they want, imho.

However, I feel that human qualities are often like the news. It's too easy to note the negative being done around us and overlook the positive. Honorable people seldom brag about the fact that they conduct themselves with honor.

Loyalty? Is that one aspect of honor? I don't like hard questions, they make my brain hurt and my eyes go blurry, but I know that to those to whom I am loyal, my loyalty knows no bounds. I know I know, easy to say here, but I do everything I can to live my life by some of those "old fashioned" values, that my Mom taught me.

[trax]

Trax has two sons, Nell was talking about Trax's Mom's sons, four all together. I consider my sons honorable men.

[BraggSurvivor]

Why I asked Trax, is how do we learn to be fathers? I believe in what bulrush is saying fundamentally.

My father left when I was very young (only time I hear from him now is when he wants money) and my mother is an alcoholic. Rough early years especially for my younger brother and sister. We never had a father figure with accept ion to the multiple drunken men that often stumbled around. All three of us I believe (some here will beg to differ) ended up loyal, honorable members of society. I am a business owner, my brother and RCMP officer and my sister a wife of a successful contractor.

Is it fluke?

[trax]

Well there is always the ability of the individual to think for him or herself which we probably shouldn't overlook.

[RobertRogers]

I agree about the fatherless boys. Sure, as with everything there are exceptions, but we are now where boys are being raised by single mother who's fathers were also fatherless and so on down the line for generations now.

But make no mistake - there is still alot of goodness out there that we encounter every day. It is nearly always only the bad stuff that you remember or is reported on the news and so gives a slanted view of the world.

[Rick]

Completely disagree about the fathers and mothers. If I could wish that a child had both parents I certainly would but I think Trax was right. If a child is taught to be honorable, they will be. I know many fine examples of men and women raised by single mothers and single fathers that I consider to be most honorable. My dear cousin, whom I call sister, is one. I also know many that had both parents I wouldn't spend 1 cent on or cross the street to put them out if they were on fire. Hmmm. That wasn't very honorable, was it?

[crashdive123]

Yep. IMO and simply put it is how you're raised, not who raised you. Add on to that a lifetime of learning and experiences that shape who we are.

[FVR]

LOL.

Honor being discussed by those hiding behind nicknames.

Come over to TWS, we can talk honor there.

[Rick]

Hey! I'm not using a nickname. See? I got honor.

[bulrush]

As for mothers raising sons...Of course they can...they have been doing it for thousands of years....lollll

Remy, I defined "raising kids" in my post above. Moms certainly can provide food, shelter, and clothing. But, IN GENERAL, cannot provide boys a path to honorable manhood. That is, being tough without breaking the law, following through, being independant. There are exceptions, but I'm talking about a trend I have seen with people I know.

Case in point: myself. Parents divorced when I was 4 and I got put with my mom. She was basically scared of all things manly. Anytime I brought a frog or snake home it was "Get that thing out of the house!". One of her boyfriends gave me a rifle when i was 9. Of course I was excited, but perhaps a little too young for a real rifle. She immediately put it into a closet. When I got my first BB gun at age 11 she was real hesitant to let me use it.

My point: she was overly protective.

Nell, you don't have to differ with me. We share the same opinion. There are exceptions to single moms raising kids. Some do a great job. But, from what I have seen, single moms IN GENERAL cannot raise boys properly. Your experience may differ. YMMV. (Your Mileage May Vary.)

Just look at the inner cities. It's actually rare now where a mom is married or even has a live-in boyfriend.

I have also seen plenty of 2 parent homes where the father was violent and the kids turned out real bad too. So it goes both ways.

[crashdive123]

Case in point: myself. Parents divorced when I was 4 and I got put with my mom. She was basically scared of all things manly. Anytime I brought a frog or snake home it was "Get that thing out of the house!". One of her boyfriends gave me a rifle when i was 9. Of course I was excited, but perhaps a little too young for a real rifle. She immediately put it into a closet. When I got my first BB gun at age 11 she was real hesitant to let me use it.

My point: she was overly protective.



This is exactly the point of my previous post. The way in which you were raised along with your lifetime (to date) of learning and experiences have molded you into what you are today.

[trax]

LOL.

Honor being discussed by those hiding behind nicknames.

Come over to TWS, we can talk honor there.

Does that even matter? I have many names, some Scots, some Ininew (that be Cree to you non-speakers) I have been taught by my elders that a name has a meaning and a responsibility to live up to. My name only has honor if I bring honor to it, is what I call myself as important as how I conduct myself? Although I can see where what I call myself might be part of how I'm conducting myself if I'm in hiding other than that, whether or not I'm honorable is on me. Period. I was just going to use a period (.) there but I didn't want to appear to be stuttering :D

[crashdive123]

Great point Trax (I know, I know - oddly you never get tired of hearing that). On this forum we know each other by the way in which we conduct ourselves. Our name is just that. What it will evoke in peoples minds is how we conduct ourselves.

[klkak]

You get more and more divorced/single mother households with no man presence. And you really need both. A mom can provide clothes, food, and a roof over the boy's head but a man provides guidance, which a woman cannot provide to a boy.

(I won't go into how a woman has no clue on how to raise a boy, because they overreact to what their "baby" does naturally, like bring snakes into the house, or catch frogs, or something.)

I'm inclined to believe you have no clue. My mother raised 2 girls and 3 boys by herself. My father died when I was only 8. I have honor, integrity and spirit.

It is a common practice in many cultures for the woman to raise a boy until he is nearly a man. Then his father or uncles or some other elder takes over. My mother raise me until I was 14, then my grandfather took over.

This is one of those situations where "one" should "engage brain", "take foot out of mouth" and "make sure they have some knowledge of the topic of discussion" before making a post.

[nell67]

Dang it klkak,I tried to add to your rep on that post,but it says I have to spread it around before I can do it again.......Great post!

[klkak]

Dang it klkak,I tried to add to your rep on that post,but it says I have to spread it around before I can do it again.......Great post!

Thank you Nell. It was a generous gesture none the less.:)

[klkak]

I tried to warn bulrush in the "men vs woman" post, to leave this subject alone.

[bulrush]

It is a common practice in many cultures for the woman to raise a boy until he is nearly a man. Then his father or uncles or some other elder takes over. My mother raise me until I was 14, then my grandfather took over.

Actually I agree with you, because when the boy reaches about age 9-10, is, IMO, the critical time when a man needs to help raise the boy. Though I didn't say it before, that's what I was thinking. The mom needs to nurture the boy from age 0 to about age 10, then the dad needs to have more influence and let the boy take changes, make some mistakes.

I stand guilty of not being detailed enough.

[Rick]

(sticks toe in water) Oooh! Too tepid for me around here.

[FVR]

Whatever does it for ya.

[ryaninmichigan]

Remy, I defined "raising kids" in my post above. Moms certainly can provide food, shelter, and clothing. But, IN GENERAL, cannot provide boys a path to honorable manhood. That is, being tough without breaking the law, following through, being independant. There are exceptions, but I'm talking about a trend I have seen with people I know.

Case in point: myself. Parents divorced when I was 4 and I got put with my mom. She was basically scared of all things manly. Anytime I brought a frog or snake home it was "Get that thing out of the house!". One of her boyfriends gave me a rifle when i was 9. Of course I was excited, but perhaps a little too young for a real rifle. She immediately put it into a closet. When I got my first BB gun at age 11 she was real hesitant to let me use it.

My point: she was overly protective.

Nell, you don't have to differ with me. We share the same opinion. There are exceptions to single moms raising kids. Some do a great job. But, from what I have seen, single moms IN GENERAL cannot raise boys properly. Your experience may differ. YMMV. (Your Mileage May Vary.)

Just look at the inner cities. It's actually rare now where a mom is married or even has a live-in boyfriend.

I have also seen plenty of 2 parent homes where the father was violent and the kids turned out real bad too. So it goes both ways.

The other side of that. I was 11 when my dad died. I had a BB gun when I was I do't even rememeber. 4 or 5? I was tought things before he left. Some I still follow some I have changed slightly. I consider mysef a honorable man. If I say I will, I will. That is enough. My mom did not change the course that my dad set....

[klkak]

I stand guilty of not being detailed enough.

Actually you are guilty of not thinking through what your about to say before you open your mouth. In a medium like this you have got to have facts to back up your comment or others will stomp all over everything you say.

[BraggSurvivor]

At one time, men used to fight duels to the death over one's honor or for a principal. But being as there are few men of honor or principal left in the world, most shall die a dishonorable death.

[trax]

Nice try Bragg, if you live an honorable life...that's all you need for an honorable death, you live a dishonorable life, dying in duel doesn't make it all good.

But I like these talks, how about duty? Anyone remember when people had a sense of duty...I mean even non-military people??

[BraggSurvivor]

Nice try Bragg, if you live an honorable life...that's all you need for an honorable death, you live a dishonorable life, dying in duel doesn't make it all good.

But I like these talks, how about duty? Anyone remember when people had a sense of duty...I mean even non-military people??


Ah, you picked up on that. Good man Trax!