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wareagle69
10-03-2008, 08:36 PM
lets say the world is ending as bragg has predicted everyone is homeless and destitute and in food lines or doesn't have to be as bad as that but some really tough times. To what lengths would you go to ensure your families safety and enough food, now I'm not referring to the gun/ bunker scenario i am asking would you steal from others?........................................... ........................................now that I've given that time to sink in would you steal a generator from a big business? or break into a grocery store, I'm talking about getting back what the greedy corporate world has stolen from you what about gas been gouged enough ?would you steal some to help run your generaters?
I'm not talking about knocking off the old couple down the road for some potatoes they have worked just as hard as you get get those but to steal from the and i quote george w " here we are the haves and the have mores"
i am sure i would do what i have to to get by, i was blasted on another site for giving information on how to bypass water meters to someone who was struggling with their bills and the whole moral majority jumped on my back to proclaim me a low life. i say so be it, but i am the only one sleeping in my bed or looking at myself in the mirror and i hold my head up high, i work dang hard everyday most often 6 10 hour days a week plus 3 more hour for the commute back and forth then also run the homestead but if it comes down to my survival or some gas companies record profit guess whose going tactical tonight.

crashdive123
10-03-2008, 08:41 PM
Not going to blast you like happened on the other site. I am a bit disappointed though.


i work dang hard everyday most often 6 10 hour days a week plus 3 more hour for the commute back and forth then also run the homestead but if it comes down to my survival or some gas companies record profit guess whose going tactical tonight.

Those people worked dang hard too.

klkak
10-03-2008, 08:43 PM
I would go to whatever lengths I felt necessary.

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 08:43 PM
explain those people?

Rick
10-03-2008, 08:46 PM
I see no difference in ripping off the "big corporation" than my next door neighbor. Stealing is stealing. That out of the way...I'd do my level best to help those around me for as long as I can.

Gray Wolf
10-03-2008, 08:47 PM
That my friend is serious food for thought..... Right now I would say no, that's just not me. But if it came down to survival or death for my family, I'd hold the flashlight for ya.

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 08:50 PM
That my friend is serious food for thought..... Right now I would say no, that's just not me. But if it came down to survival or death for my family, I'd hold the flashlight for ya.

ah honesty thank you that is the point i am trying to illistrate its easy to be moral and do the right thing when times are good but how many of you would be able to look your wives, children, grandchildren and so on in the face when they are starving and cold and looking to you as a leader

crashdive123
10-03-2008, 08:51 PM
Since oil companies seem to be the villan of the day, I'll talk about them. The geologists and crews that do the exploration. The oil field workers that do the drilling and extraction. The truckers that move the products. The refinery workers that make it usable. The consumers that would bear the burden of increases due to loss. Although the profits of many oil companies is at all time record highs, their profit margins are not (an important distinction I think). Without looking it up I can't give you the exact number, but I think it's in the 8 to 10 percent range. If the rationale is they are making too much, should any company that has a higher profit margin be the target of peoples wrath?

BraggSurvivor
10-03-2008, 08:51 PM
I see no difference in ripping off the "big corporation" than my next door neighbor. Stealing is stealing. That out of the way...I'd do my level best to help those around me for as long as I can.

Ditto, but I haven't had to experience what WE describes above. After I have given up my meals to my family and others......and things look to be more dismal, sadly I feel I would do what it would take.

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 08:55 PM
ask your self this question before the memebrs of a certain flight got on board do you think any of them would ever consider eating another human being? not until they spent some time on a moutain in the andes they wouldn't have. any who man i got to quit eating these mushrooms

chiye tanka
10-03-2008, 08:56 PM
No one knows what they would do! I don't care what you say. I'll explain. Take law enforcement, you work the way you train. But, you can train and train, when it's time to pull that "trigger", you don't really know what you will do. I've seen some of the most passive people in my line of work, become stone cold and some of the "bad azzez" freeze up.
So, you see, no one knows for sure. I'd like to think I'd do the right thing, but who knows?

BraggSurvivor
10-03-2008, 08:57 PM
ask your self this question before the memebrs of a certain flight got on board do you think any of them would ever consider eating another human being? not until they spent some time on a moutain in the andes they wouldn't have. any who man i got to quit eating these mushrooms

It would depend on what she looked like......

Fletcher
10-03-2008, 08:57 PM
I see no difference in ripping off the "big corporation" than my next door neighbor. Stealing is stealing. That out of the way...I'd do my level best to help those around me for as long as I can.
I agree stealing is stealing....................while your unhooking
that gen. you might here metal on nylon as the dude pulls his pistol
from his MAN BAG HA HA HA HA HA HA

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 08:58 PM
pandora.... pandora... where are you? hey who opened this box here hmmmm

BraggSurvivor
10-03-2008, 09:00 PM
pandora.... pandora... where are you? hey who opened this box here hmmmm

And Rick says I'm the trouble maker.....:p

Gray Wolf
10-03-2008, 09:00 PM
WE, that's when people find out what they are really capable of - during or after a disaster. I think that some people want to believe differently. Hopefully they will never have to find out...

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 09:01 PM
sorry i was bored and thought i would sit back and enjoy the show maybe i should have logged in as palerider first

nell67
10-03-2008, 09:02 PM
I think given the right situation,we all would do what is needed to feed and take care of those we love and care about.

But isn't that part of the reason most of us found this site? I mean to learn how to find wild edibles,hunt,trap,or otherwise obtain needed food so that we do not become one of those who have to resort to the scenerio that was described?

crashdive123
10-03-2008, 09:02 PM
But let's look at an alternative to the situation that you described. Barter - labor or goods - everybody wins.

BraggSurvivor
10-03-2008, 09:03 PM
sorry i was bored and thought i would sit back and enjoy the show maybe i should have logged in as palerider first

Or LittleBoyBlue WE...... he is still so innocent.

Gray Wolf
10-03-2008, 09:05 PM
I think given the right situation,we all would do what is needed to feed and take care of those we love and care about.

But isn't that part of the reason most of us found this site? I mean to learn how to find wild edibles,hunt,trap,or otherwise obtain needed food so that we do not become one of those who have to resort to the scenario that was described?

Well said nell!

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 09:05 PM
well if more of you had taken my quiz i would not have to resort to questions like this, so really its your own fault yeah thats it its your own fault

Gray Wolf
10-03-2008, 09:09 PM
WE, that was a good question for everyone to ponder on their own.

Riverrat
10-03-2008, 09:10 PM
I would do hat I have to to protect my family, I hope I would not hurt others in the process, but in all honesty, I would take care of my family any way possible. I think I would try to trade/barter first, but would not see my family hurt.

Fletcher
10-03-2008, 09:12 PM
No it was like this when i got here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not my fault...........well not all of it............
OK OK its my fault there i said it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 09:17 PM
look i agree with nell as awlays she has a great point this is why we came here to learn and to share about skills both survival in the bush and to some extent survival in the urban jungle during hard times, thankfully i am not in the situation that i have posed could be some day i will be, but ask yourself this or at least i have lived this question i never ever wanted to have to take a human life, i served out of patriotism nothing more but when it came down to it, i did not take the morral road and follow a commandment of do not kill nor did i turn the other cheek but i did what was nessecary to get me arse home, i have the blunt honest in myself to answer this question and to ask it, maybe i'm wondering if there is something wrong with me for admiting that i would "improvise adapt and overcome" to steal a cheesy line, i am sorry if you or if i ahve lost some credibility with some of you but i posses the ability to be brutaly honest with myself and i know the type of man i am, was, and can be if needed.

Gray Wolf
10-03-2008, 09:24 PM
WE, those ghosts never, never, go away. For me that has been almost 40 years ago. We all did what we had to.

wareagle69
10-03-2008, 09:27 PM
amen to that my friend, only someone who has lived it can understand that, anyhow time for WE to fly away hasta la vista, via con dios i'm out.

nell67
10-03-2008, 09:28 PM
Don't be sorry WE,most just don't want to see that part of themselves,even though they know that it is there deep inside of them,I was very close to that point not too many years ago,but always found a way to not have to go there,but if things had gotten any worse,I would have had no regrets.

crashdive123
10-03-2008, 09:31 PM
Maybe I misunderstood, but it looked to me to more of a rant against "greedy corporations" than taking care of family. If I read it wrong, my apologies.

chiye tanka
10-03-2008, 09:32 PM
Maybe I misunderstood, but it looked to me to more of a rant against "greedy corporations" than taking care of family. If I read it wrong, my apologies.

Ditto.....

Fletcher
10-03-2008, 09:38 PM
look i agree with nell as awlays she has a great point this is why we came here to learn and to share about skills both survival in the bush and to some extent survival in the urban jungle during hard times, thankfully i am not in the situation that i have posed could be some day i will be, but ask yourself this or at least i have lived this question i never ever wanted to have to take a human life, i served out of patriotism nothing more but when it came down to it, i did not take the morral road and follow a commandment of do not kill nor did i turn the other cheek but i did what was nessecary to get me arse home, i have the blunt honest in myself to answer this question and to ask it, maybe i'm wondering if there is something wrong with me for admiting that i would "improvise adapt and overcome" to steal a cheesy line, i am sorry if you or if i ahve lost some credibility with some of you but i posses the ability to be brutaly honest with myself and i know the type of man i am, was, and can be if needed.
you've lost NO credibility with me. We as men will do what ever it takes to stay alive. I have been in life or death situations. I'm still here.

Ole WV Coot
10-03-2008, 10:13 PM
Anyone besides me done anything they won't talk or brag about? If not you won't last long. I will do what I think is needed if I am forced to revert back 40 yrs I will.

Gray Wolf
10-06-2008, 12:06 PM
I must answer with a question first...
What are morals to you ?

Doesn't your conscience go hand in hand with morals?

I don't think there is an absolute morality, there are issues, such as abortion, which have no clear answer in the human conscience. (Both pro-choicers and pro-lifers claim the moral high ground.) Then don't you need to ask, where does that morality and conscience come from? How much of it is influenced by biblical values from their upbringing and society itself?

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 12:18 PM
I can not allow my family to fail. That is a moral. I will take whatever measures are needed to insure my family survives. Including stealing from a store.

crashdive123
10-06-2008, 02:53 PM
Just keep in mind that many people will take whatever measures are needed to ensure their stuff survives...including shooting you dead.

trax
10-06-2008, 03:14 PM
Anyone besides me done anything they won't talk or brag about? If not you won't last long. I will do what I think is needed if I am forced to revert back 40 yrs I will.

Pop, I'm not even going to have that conversation. As for WE's first question, do what you can live with the consequences of having done. I'm not here to judge nor to be judged. I'll take care of as many as I can for as long as I can and avoid risk as much as possible doing so. When that fails, I'll be dead so it won't matter to me unless God has NO sense of humor.

chiye tanka
10-06-2008, 03:19 PM
Pop, I'm not even going to have that conversation. As for WE's first question, do what you can live with the consequences of having done. I'm not here to judge nor to be judged. I'll take care of as many as I can for as long as I can and avoid risk as much as possible doing so. When that fails, I'll be dead so it won't matter to me unless God has NO sense of humor.
Amen brother. That's what it all boils down to.

bulrush
10-06-2008, 03:22 PM
I can not allow my family to fail. That is a moral. I will take whatever measures are needed to insure my family survives. Including stealing from a store.

That's what drug dealers do. And gang bangers do. They need to eat to survive, and some of them have families (wives and kids) if not the gang. They are just surviving too, in their own dysfunctional, anti-social way. So will you sink down to the level of a drug dealer and steal because it's easy?

Or will you hunt and find something to eat that way?

For some people, they don't know how to hunt, or don't have a gun, or have run out of ammo, so they steal to eat. Period. The SHTF for them.

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 05:37 PM
I do hunt and fish and can and do feed my family with that. If one of them was sick and needed meds and there was a drug store down the road that had what I needed to make them better you can bet your a$$ I will be stealing. It is that simple..

crashdive123
10-06-2008, 05:41 PM
Ryan - I'm not saying that I or anybody else wouldn't do what was needed to take care of family. Rather than jump to the "I'm gonna steal" option, have you considered that barter may be better? As you say, you hunt and fish and can feed your family. Maybe the drugstore owner doesn't and would jump at the chance to trade food for medication. Just a thought - maybe something to consider.

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 05:53 PM
Ryan - I'm not saying that I or anybody else wouldn't do what was needed to take care of family. Rather than jump to the "I'm gonna steal" option, have you considered that barter may be better? As you say, you hunt and fish and can feed your family. Maybe the drugstore owner doesn't and would jump at the chance to trade food for medication. Just a thought - maybe something to consider.

I doubt the owner of the Rite Aid down the street lives here. If he did I would trade food for Meds. no prob.I am asuming the owner is not preasent. I will always try to comprimise when I can but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Know what I mean?

Rick
10-06-2008, 07:28 PM
Nope, I don't. What entitles you (rhetorical you) to steal that _____ (fill in the blank) over someone else? When everyone starts to act that way then Trax is right, we'll all be dead and it won't matter. As long as we can maintain some civility and help each other and make certain all of us have something, even if we have to ration, then we only stand on the edge of the precipice and still have a chance to become what we were. If it all breaks down to choas then we've fallen into the precipice. Tough times test all men. Some books are best read and followed. That's all I'll say on the matter.

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 07:39 PM
rhetorical huh? Of what books do you speak? I am all for trading, but if no one is around and I need it I will steal it. I am above no one else. I only wish for my loved ones to be ok. If a building was on fire I would grab the ones I love first. BUT I would not leave, I would go back in for the rest. Does that make me bad?

Rick
10-06-2008, 07:45 PM
Nope. You are what you are. It's not for me to judge and I really wasn't directing my post to you. LOTS of others have professed the same sentiments and I do understand what they are saying. I just don't believe that way. As for the book...there's only one that needs to be followed. It's a road map through this life and I won't go any further.

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 07:47 PM
Nope. You are what you are. It's not for me to judge and I really wasn't directing my post to you. LOTS of others have professed the same sentiments and I do understand what they are saying. I just don't believe that way. As for the book...there's only one that needs to be followed. It's a road map through this life and I won't go any further.

I've read that book. But I am a human.

Gray Wolf
10-06-2008, 07:49 PM
Come on, give a hint, like, hypothetically, it starts with a "B"...

Rick
10-06-2008, 07:56 PM
Hypothetically, yes. Of course, so does Book.:rolleyes:

wareagle69
10-06-2008, 08:22 PM
i go left.....

Blaahvid
10-06-2008, 08:33 PM
First of all. I tend to agree with Rick. Stealing is stealing.
Suggesting that it is okay to steal in order to ease or insure the survival of you or your family, no matter who you're stealing from, is a slippery slope indeed.
It's a path that will lead straight to anarchy and widespread breakdown of civilization.

How you can claim to have any morals and claim it is okay to steal is beyond me.

@ Remy
Sorry to let you in on a little secret, but modern day morals didn't come from the bible. Any anthropologist will testify to the fact that even very primitive societies have had very similar moral codes to ours, and no society has ever been shown to accept stealing, raping and murdering within the community. This excluding religious ceremonys and defeated enemies.
Even "The golden rule" doesn't originally come from the bible.

wareagle69
10-06-2008, 08:41 PM
it is easy to take the high road in times of plenty, but my question was of times of absolute desperation, can you look at your starving hurting family as they question you as to why this is happening to them, when you are starving hurting scared and panic stricken will you look at your loved ones and say i have tried everything asking nice tried to barter but have nothing to offer and even begged but i'm sorry dear loved one i will not comprimse my morals to save our lives and steal some food from the store that has so much. to get into the make up of our genetics it is in our dna to survive period nothing more the strong survive the weak do not it is human nature to survive

crashdive123
10-06-2008, 08:44 PM
Trust me......it the situation gets as you describe, the stores will not have stuff for you to steal. So, now you find out that your neighbor has stock piled some supplies and he's not willing to barter for anything you offer......now what?

wareagle69
10-06-2008, 08:58 PM
i don't know crash, desperation does strange things to folks when i started this thread it was about cheating a water meter for a lady w/o much money and as always it has digressed further and further, you know that i am the neighbor that has a stash, i have spent my time preparing in all ways to continue to feed myself and help others eat, but there is nothing worse than haveing my wife look at me with fear in her eyes and knowing that i need to take care of her, every one that know me says that my actions belie what my exterior says about me they see the gentle giant but even my wife knows and fears what will happen if anyone or thing crosses the line, it is a situation that i honestly fear myself, i have always been alone in hard times and only had to look out for myself now i have put someone elses needs before mine-new for me
so what would i do, like i said don't know haven't been there yet i know how i would like to think i would react but that is an unkniwn factor my friend

Blaahvid
10-06-2008, 08:58 PM
@ Wareagle

Well, your scenario also leads to other disheartening talks with your loved ones.
When "your starving family" looks up at the mighty provider that you are, after you raided whoever you could (most likely at gunpoint, leaving them and their family to starve), what will you tell your little girl/boy when he/she asks you where you got the food? How will you sleep at night, knowing that someone else is not getting fed because you stole the food from them?

Stealing is stealing.

Where will your road lead you? Will you send a little girl, that you're not related to in any way, away if she comes knocking on your door, pleading for your help, when your supplies are low?

wareagle69
10-06-2008, 09:04 PM
@ Wareagle

Well, your scenario also leads to other disheartening talks with your loved ones.
When "your starving family" looks up at the mighty provider that you are, after you raided whoever you could (most likely at gunpoint, leaving them and their family to starve), what will you tell your little girl/boy when he/she asks you where you got the food? How will you sleep at night, knowing that someone else is not getting fed because you stole the food from them?

Stealing is stealing.

Where will your road lead you? Will you send a little girl, that you're not related to in any way, away if she comes knocking on your door, pleading for your help, when your supplies are low?

you're new here so you haven't had much time to learn about us but a little about me i have no kids, and while i am freindly towards humans i have no need of them, and can be extremly cold to them my soft spot is for animals especially ones abused and/or suffering.
now before this sets most of you on fire my shrink in the army asked me once that if i saw a woman and small chil on the side of the road in the cold homeless and hungry would i help them, my anwer was no, woman and children get an amazing amount of help from the government at all levels my concern is for the ones in my unit what ever the definition is now which happens to be my wife and all my animals here on the homestead.

Gray Wolf
10-06-2008, 09:10 PM
Using your scenario "neighbor has stock piled some supplies and he's not willing to barter for anything you offer." So he has extra supplies, and he knows that my family will die without some of what he has so much of.... Sorry, but I'm going to be sharing with him... I will try my best to resupply him, but he is not a good man in my book (nor the other book). In the same breath, if it were the opposite way, I would share with his family, as to not have their deaths on my conscience...

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 09:11 PM
@ Wareagle

Well, your scenario also leads to other disheartening talks with your loved ones.
When "your starving family" looks up at the mighty provider that you are, after you raided whoever you could (most likely at gunpoint, leaving them and their family to starve), what will you tell your little girl/boy when he/she asks you where you got the food? How will you sleep at night, knowing that someone else is not getting fed because you stole the food from them?

Stealing is stealing.

Where will your road lead you? Will you send a little girl, that you're not related to in any way, away if she comes knocking on your door, pleading for your help, when your supplies are low?

The ones I love will live that is all I will know in times like that. It sucks. but it is the truth. my kid or yours? I have the key? My kid. that is basic..

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 09:12 PM
"Doesn't your conscience go hand in hand with morals?"

Yes and No.
Morals are codes...more specifically codes of conduct.
My conscience is not obliged to be influenced by, or believe this code to be truth.
It is somewhat true that codes (morals) program consciences or influence them as you say, but as with any programming, some units appear to be immune...or simply deform the information given.

Today, and in our western world, i would say that 99% of those codes are influenced by biblical values...even if you were not raised in a home which conveyed this belief (like i was).
But what influenced biblical values ?

I asked the question "what are morals TO YOU" because to some, those codes are just that...codes. And they regard them as binary information that only serve as a platform in a game of chess. Black, white, straight, side, king, queen...right and wrong.

But as you pointed at, another word, another code, this one deeper comes into play.
What is interesting with WE's post is that the line between the two is consciously blurred.

The first code we call morals...this chess like platform is easily manipulated by our minds...and translates into...if i must, i will bend the code, or put it aside for a moment.
But the deeper code we call conscience is not as easily manipulated.
We come in and out of morals every day...with jokes, thoughts, ideas, dreams...etc. But our conscience for the most part (there are exceptions of course) keeps us "grounded".

It is hard to split them apart...although, by physically traveling, one can identify both, since different "countries" have different sets of codes...in this light i am with you when you say there is no absolute morality.

One could look at it this way...
Morals are codes given by "outside", within the realm of Man. In other words, they are ideas.
Those codes influence our conscience, but our conscience is influenced by everything. Our upbringing, our schooling, the air we breath, the foods we eat, our nature, our beliefs, our temperament, our personal power...etc.

It is perhaps the difference between the idea of right and wrong within the herd, and right and wrong for yourself. Of course, Man has this idea that everything must be black and white, right or wrong...when in fact, it is not.

So this brings me to another question for all...

You are at the controls of a train.
In the cabin with you, you have a loaded gun.
The train is at full speed, and cannot be stopped.
The tracks ahead split into two...and you control where the train will go...to the left, or to the right.
On the left tracks are two 10 year old kids.
On the right tracks are a group of 30 old people (from 50 to 90 years of age).

What do you do ?
A- shoot yourself...and leave it to "whatever".
B- save the children.
C- save the most life.

Holy crap. I agree with frenchie. sombody write this down. I would go right by the way. I have lived my life. they have not. A. is for cowards.

crashdive123
10-06-2008, 09:20 PM
i don't know crash, desperation does strange things to folks when i started this thread it was about cheating a water meter for a lady w/o much money and as always it has digressed further and further, you know that i am the neighbor that has a stash, i have spent my time preparing in all ways to continue to feed myself and help others eat, but there is nothing worse than haveing my wife look at me with fear in her eyes and knowing that i need to take care of her, every one that know me says that my actions belie what my exterior says about me they see the gentle giant but even my wife knows and fears what will happen if anyone or thing crosses the line, it is a situation that i honestly fear myself, i have always been alone in hard times and only had to look out for myself now i have put someone elses needs before mine-new for me
so what would i do, like i said don't know haven't been there yet i know how i would like to think i would react but that is an unkniwn factor my friend

I understand what you're saying. Here's how I look at it. The more neighbors that I can pull into my tribe/clan/whatever you want to call it - can make my/our job easier. If there are some working on wild edibles, some working on game, some trading labor or supplies that are in abundance for things of need......as relationships and bonds grow stronger we can all thrive. I don't think this is unlike other periods in time. Settlers in new lands coming together to help and survive. Prehistoric cave dwellers rallying together to defeat the giant what ever it's called prehistoric animal. So many like to think (not you) that they are some sort of billy bad arse and can defeat the world. Truth is - it ain't gonna happen. There is always somebody bigger and badder on the next block or around the next mountain. (I know I'll catch heck for this) Although I don't agree with his fear of an apocalyptic end to everything.....In some regard Spud had the right philosiphy in surviving.

Gray Wolf
10-06-2008, 09:23 PM
old people (from 50 to 90 years of age).

Wow didn't know that at 50 you're considered old... I haven't even decided what I'm gonna be when I grow up! :eek:

wareagle69
10-06-2008, 09:24 PM
yup just ask kimbo if someone was badder than him saturday hahahahah anyhow palerider err i mean i have stirred the pot enough for one night goot run oh yeah i start night school again tommorrow fun for me up at 5 drive into town work my tens and school for 4 hours then drive back to the homestead in bed by midnight so if i only am around on sundays you'll know why.

crashdive123
10-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Watched that fight. What an exciting 13 seconds.

Gray Wolf
10-06-2008, 09:29 PM
i start night school again

What courses, if you don't mind my asking?

ryaninmichigan
10-06-2008, 09:30 PM
Kimbo has no place in that cage...

wareagle69
10-06-2008, 09:33 PM
What courses, if you don't mind my asking?

well as you know i am a plumber and steam fitter and a class 3 gas tech now i ahve two years of nights for my class 2 the move on to class one or fitter one that is where the major mulah is at i missed out on an opportunity to go to baffin island for 10 grand a week that won't happen again

FVR
10-06-2008, 09:34 PM
This is like some freak'n doomsday dreaming where you come to a board and try to prove how tough you are.

It's like going into battle, you don't know wtf you're going to be like, until you are there. So, that being said, WE's water trick, good for the woman. She gets free water, it's no diff. from going down to town and signing up for assistance. Probably a he ll of alot cheaper just to give her the water. And it hurts no one.

As far as stealing from your neighbor.LOL. Ya really think your neighbor is going to allow you to steal his food or not be on guard? the nievity is just hillarious. Chances are, ya gonna wind up dead. Then your family is really screwed, one provider down.

The scenario of just stealing, is a cop out. It's the last resort of a loser. If that is what you are, then by all means go for it, ya might get away with it once, maybe twice, but then there is going to be an uprising against you. By those you ripped off, they will ban together and hang your arse from a tree, then escort your remaining family away, or worse.

You're not that bad.

So, you can talk big, say your goining to steal for your kids and family if you want. Makes me wonder what kind of person you really are.

As for me, I will not jepordize my morals and beliefs for food. We will do just fine. If you need, stop by and we will share what we have. Please don't steal from me, as it will turn me into something that I don't like.

crashdive123
10-06-2008, 09:37 PM
Well said Frank

laughing beetle
10-06-2008, 09:54 PM
yes, well said indeed!!

Gray Wolf
10-06-2008, 10:28 PM
FVR, was your post directed at my post to WE's and crash's scenario?

BraggSurvivor
10-06-2008, 10:35 PM
This is like some freak'n doomsday dreaming where you come to a board and try to prove how tough you are.

It's like going into battle, you don't know wtf you're going to be like, until you are there. So, that being said, WE's water trick, good for the woman. She gets free water, it's no diff. from going down to town and signing up for assistance. Probably a he ll of alot cheaper just to give her the water. And it hurts no one.

As far as stealing from your neighbor.LOL. Ya really think your neighbor is going to allow you to steal his food or not be on guard? the nievity is just hillarious. Chances are, ya gonna wind up dead. Then your family is really screwed, one provider down.

The scenario of just stealing, is a cop out. It's the last resort of a loser. If that is what you are, then by all means go for it, ya might get away with it once, maybe twice, but then there is going to be an uprising against you. By those you ripped off, they will ban together and hang your arse from a tree, then escort your remaining family away, or worse.

You're not that bad.

So, you can talk big, say your goining to steal for your kids and family if you want. Makes me wonder what kind of person you really are.

As for me, I will not jepordize my morals and beliefs for food. We will do just fine. If you need, stop by and we will share what we have. Please don't steal from me, as it will turn me into something that I don't like.


You best post to date, excellent!

FVR
10-06-2008, 11:30 PM
Gray,

Took it all in, and just posted. Not putting anyone in particular on blast, just stating how I feel about some of what has been typed in the thread.

Rick
10-07-2008, 08:15 AM
WE - Okay, then let's make this REALLY personal. The situation is as you describe. You and your wife are starving. A couple of folks from her animal rehab place have become part of your unit. Despite all your preparation and stockpiling you are now out of food and starving. Low and behold, who shows up but Norm. Would you, could you shoot him for food? If you shot him, could you eat him?

I'm with Crash, if things were that desperate there wouldn't be anything in the stores and businesses but trash and empty shelves. I don't know what I'd do in the direst of circumstances. As I said, tough times test tough men. I would like to think that my neighbors and I could organize a bit, pool resources and hunt and fish for the food we need. There is safety and economy of scale in numbers.

The first time I pull the trigger on a neighbor and take what's their's is the first day I have to start looking over my shoulder.

Ole WV Coot
10-07-2008, 09:39 AM
I reread a bunch of posts here and everybody seems to range from a bad a$$ backshooter to a saint. I don't think anybody knows, including me what they would do if they were desperate. I have known more good folks than bad, and the baddest, meanest whip the world guy froze and filled his pants at the first shot. If I could honestly predict what I would do in a given situation I could have saved myself a lot of misery. You can plan and hoard but none of us really know squat about what we would do, only what we would like to see ourselves doing.

bulrush
10-07-2008, 10:58 AM
You can plan and hoard but none of us really know squat about what we would do, only what we would like to see ourselves doing.
Which is why if you band together you can pool some of your resources. Some people may be good at making home remedies, or even have a medical background. Someone may be good at hunting. Someone may be good at making usable stuff from junk, like making an alcohol stove from cans. Someone might have the knowledge to make a water still, so you can have drinkable water.

If there is just one average American family by themselves, you might have a jack of all trades but master of none.

ryaninmichigan
10-07-2008, 11:01 AM
I can skin a buck, I can run a trot line.

rebel
10-07-2008, 11:04 AM
I can skin a buck, I can run a trout line.

Did you mean trot line?

ryaninmichigan
10-07-2008, 11:28 AM
Did you mean trot line?

Yep fingers do what they want sometimes.

Gray Wolf
10-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Come on, you were just thinking about how tasty a nice Brook Trout would be...

hickatheart
10-07-2008, 01:11 PM
If I sew stealing into my families welfare, then we will reap the consequences. If I maintain a steady course, on the side of what my God teaches me, then when things are out of my control, He will provide. If He says gain wisdom and impliment it, I will. Among our feeble attempts to be faithful to Him, He has seen my family through a whole host of difficulties. If it comes to a steal or die scenario, He will show us a way out. It is on this integrity on which I continue to stand. Someone here said we don't know what we'll do until we're in the midst of it. I agree. I'm only sure of what we won't do.
H@H

Sourdough
10-07-2008, 01:28 PM
Allow me to twist the question. Family "A" has invested all it's money in survival food, bullets, band-aids, etc. Which leaves them with no Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate investments, which they consider risky and dangerous.

Family "B" has been lived large, refi'ed the huge home five times, has no food, eats out every night, because they deserve to. Buys every new dingle'berry, ATV, Yacht, etc. Nine credit cards maxed out.

Note: that for the last 8 years the family living large has said over and over to family "A", we are smart and you are fools, see stocks will go up for ever, debt is your friend.

Well the music stops, and now family "B" feels family "A" should share, or they will kill them and take their food.

Odd that family "B" never said to family "A" each of the last eight years, look we made $740,000.- this year; can we share $100,000.- with you....?

BraggSurvivor
10-07-2008, 05:19 PM
Allow me to twist the question. Family "A" has invested all it's money in survival food, bullets, band-aids, etc. Which leaves them with no Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate investments, which they consider risky and dangerous.

Family "B" has been lived large, refi'ed the huge home five times, has no food, eats out every night, because they deserve to. Buys every new dingle'berry, ATV, Yacht, etc. Nine credit cards maxed out.

Note: that for the last 8 years the family living large has said over and over to family "A", we are smart and you are fools, see stocks will go up for ever, debt is your friend.

Well the music stops, and now family "B" feels family "A" should share, or they will kill them and take their food.

Odd that family "B" never said to family "A" each of the last eight years, look we made $740,000.- this year; can we share $100,000.- with you....?



I'm a firm believer that things end with whimpers, not bangs. There will be no explosion, just a slow, steady chorus of cracks, creaks and groans as things return to nature.

My symbol of "the end" is not an angry crowd of urban looters, but a tree growing through the window of a McMansion whose siding has mostly fallen off and particle-board walls are covered in fungus.

BraggSurvivor
10-07-2008, 05:41 PM
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent- at best.

Sourdough
10-07-2008, 05:43 PM
REFERENCE Post # 82.......My point is people with money don't willingly share. And I made the point in the thread on hoarding, that mostly what people hoard is wealth, and society applauds that, make money, make more money.......No I am not talking about you Bragg.

Rick
10-07-2008, 07:29 PM
@Hickatheart - Hold down on the religion. It's one of the forbidden topics.;)

ryaninmichigan
10-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Now, kings and queens for the most part have shed their crowns for jets and extravagant evenings in far away lands, but this sherwood forest we call life is still present.
If my son was sick, and i needed medicine i could not afford...i would steal it.
If my wife was hungry, and my neighbor was getting fat...i would steal the food...after all, she stole my heart.
Not because i am a thief, but because i am...

Holy crap. We agree twice in two days....

Rick
10-07-2008, 07:41 PM
Okay. That's it. Neither one of you get to live near me!

klkak
10-07-2008, 07:42 PM
All this time I thought morals were a type of fungus!

ryaninmichigan
10-07-2008, 09:18 PM
Socialpathis have no morals. I have morals. You may not agree with them but that is your problem. In the end we will do what we have to do. Sometimes in the end a sheep dog eats a sheep...

FVR
10-07-2008, 10:23 PM
Sometimes, the sheep is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

trax
10-08-2008, 04:38 PM
If klkak's right, I'm going by RiM's and stealing his morals, but I won't dress up like a sheep Frank, no way. I've gotta draw a line somewhere, I might not have morals but I have principles and a dress code and I'll have morals after I steal Ryan's.

Rick
10-08-2008, 05:34 PM
And always keep an eye out for the sheep dog!!

http://varifrank.com/images/250px-Sam_and_Ralph_choke.GIF

ryaninmichigan
10-08-2008, 07:44 PM
If klkak's right, I'm going by RiM's and stealing his morals, but I won't dress up like a sheep Frank, no way. I've gotta draw a line somewhere, I might not have morals but I have principles and a dress code and I'll have morals after I steal Ryan's.

I have eaten most of my morals already. More next spring.. Come on over I got some great spots..

Rick
10-08-2008, 07:52 PM
Because of the economy, morels have been bought out by the Fed who will cease production by year end. Sorry.

LittleBoyBlue
10-08-2008, 07:59 PM
Because of the economy, morels have been bought out by the Fed who will cease production by year end. Sorry.

Now you starting to sound like that wierdo Bragg character. :eek:

rebel
10-09-2008, 11:01 AM
After you let Mr. Ugly out of the bag then what?
Why are children used in conflicts? Easier to control.

hickatheart
10-09-2008, 05:46 PM
Roger. Sorry about the faith stuff. It's the basis of my thinking more than I thought. I do respect everyones opinion, for the record.

Bragg, I like your picture of what the end looks like. That is so true!

H@H