View Full Version : Survival situation scenario (Beginner)
klkak
10-02-2008, 03:43 PM
Beginner
Understand that there are no wrong answers. This is meant to get you thinking. It is a training scenario. Your answers will be critiqued in such a way that guides you to making the best decisions possible. Good luck.
You and your best friend are at the end of a 5 day fly in hunting trip to the McPherson passage side of Naked Island in a bite near Kelso point, Prince William Sound Alaska. You are looking forward to being picked up this morning and are happy to see the small float plane as it lands.
Because both of you have been successful the pilot will have to make three trips in stead of the two trips it took to put you on the island. The first trip takes your hunting trophies. Your best friend is somewhat older then you and is feeling a little worse for wear so you allow him to go out on the second trip with the gear. The plane takes off at 12:00pm. It is a four hour round trip so you expect the plane to return just before dark to pick you up.
It is now 5:00pm and dark. You have seen nor heard nothing of the float plane and realize you are stuck on the island for the night. To make matters worse, the weather is starting to drop a rain/snow mixture.
It’s going to be a long, cold, wet night. Explain in moderate detail how you will get through the night.
Use the following points to help guide your answers
Protection from the weather:
Protection from hypothermia:
Type of environment: Coastal bush Alaska (an island). The terrain is steep and heavily wooded. The ground does level out as you approach the beach. The ground is covered with a thick, heavy, wet moss.
Weather conditions: Cloudy. Temperatures are right at or just below freezing. There is a slushy rain falling.
Season: Mid November
Equipment:
Water proof hunting pants and parka w/liner
Wool watch cap and baseball cap
Set of polypro’ long underwear
1 pair cotton boxer briefs
1 pair mid weight smart wool socks, 1 pair heavy weight smart wool socks
1 pair 800 thinsulate rubber knee boots
1 pair polypro’ glove liners, 1 pair goretex leather gloves
1 small day pack
1 high quality fixed blade hunting knife
1 Leatherman supertool
Ruger 77 mkII Hawkeye .338 win mag., 20rds ammo
.22lr revolver with 50rds of ammo
Expensive divers style wrist watch
LED head lamp
1 5ft x 7ft piece of heavy plastic sheeting
15ft 3 ply 3/8 twisted nylon rope
Supplies:
1 small bag of trail mix
1 liter bottle of water
Number of people in the group: You are alone
Each person's strengths: N/A
Weaknesses: N/A
Medical condition: Not injured
Bibow
10-02-2008, 05:31 PM
ok so first off build quick lean to with as little plastic sheeting and cord as possible and line the bottom with vegetation. if theres any plastic left i could use it to catch rain. i would probably try to buld a fire but weather would most likely be too bad. if i see any small game i'd try to get it with the 22. clean it and store somewhere safe and cold till i can get a fire going.
The next morning i would hopefully get a fire going, cook my game (if i have any), try to get some water to fill up my bottle. if i find any freshwater sources i could boil it in the bottle if i had a fire going. maybe i would be able to find some crabs or clams on the beach although i'm not familiar with the area. and try to get sme kind of game, big or small. and if the fires going i could collect wood. maybe build a gorge hook tie to a strand of nylon bait it and throw it out but i don't exactly know alot about the environment. i would just keep to that routine till i'm picked up. maybe set a couple snares if i could.
Dig a hole in the moss and bury yourself alive overnight, take your supplies into the hole with you. You'll be fine come morning, just a little dirty.
klkak
10-02-2008, 08:54 PM
ok so first off build quick lean to with as little plastic sheeting and cord as possible and line the bottom with vegetation.
Building a shelter is a good plan. Where would you put your shelter?
if theres any plastic left i could use it to catch rain.
In this scenario you are only required to make it through the night and you already have a liter of water.
i would probably try to buld a fire but weather would most likely be too bad. It would be possible to arrange your shelter so it could protect a small fire. How would you start it?
if i see any small game i'd try to get it with the 22. clean it and store somewhere safe and cold till i can get a fire going.
Keep in mind that it is already dark.
The next morning i would hopefully get a fire going, cook my game (if i have any), try to get some water to fill up my bottle. if i find any freshwater sources i could boil it in the bottle if i had a fire going. maybe i would be able to find some crabs or clams on the beach although i'm not familiar with the area. and try to get sme kind of game, big or small. and if the fires going i could collect wood. maybe build a gorge hook tie to a strand of nylon bait it and throw it out but i don't exactly know alot about the environment. i would just keep to that routine till i'm picked up. maybe set a couple snares if i could.
I provided the exact location of this scenario so that it could be researched prior to participating.
Thank you for taking the challenge. I believe you could have made it through the night. Though somewhat worse for wear.:)
klkak
10-02-2008, 09:03 PM
Dig a hole in the moss and bury yourself alive overnight, take your supplies into the hole with you. You'll be fine come morning, just a little dirty.
Very interesting idea. Kind of a down and dirty (pun intended) way of doing it. For the sake of education, could you elaborate.
How would you dig the hole?
How would you protect yourself from the ground?
How would you keep the rain from soaking through?
You could have made it through the night. Thank you for taking the challenge.:)
nell67
10-02-2008, 09:17 PM
Use the knife to cut a "blanket " in the moss big enough to cover yourself and your supplies,then curl up and sleep through the night,like trax said,a little dirty,but alive.
Bibow
10-02-2008, 09:20 PM
as for the fire, i would use the piece of birch bark that i keep in my bag. for wood i would find the driest possible stuff. hard to explain how i'd do it but i've done it before
crashdive123
10-02-2008, 09:23 PM
Ah - but in the scenario provided, you don't have your bag...just the things listed.
Bibow
10-02-2008, 09:27 PM
good point crashdive. since i have to listen to the rules; i would scrape some dry bark from the trees and find the driest possible wood i can. and since i have a leatherman and a 338 i could pull the bullet out of the case and use some powder to help me out if i need to.
This is a good game should play it more often
crashdive123
10-02-2008, 09:34 PM
Keep in mind the climate - very wet. You do have a good quality hunting knife with you as well. Remember that you can whitle your way to dry wood as well as rolling over downed limbs and logs to obtain dry fuel.
klkak
10-02-2008, 11:24 PM
Use the knife to cut a "blanket " in the moss big enough to cover yourself and your supplies,then curl up and sleep through the night,like trax said,a little dirty,but alive.
Well you answered how you could remove the moss.
I'm still looking for answers to the these 2 questions.
How would you protect yourself from the ground?
How would you keep the rain for soaking through?
Nell, You too could have made it through the night.
klkak
10-02-2008, 11:31 PM
For everyone taking this challenge:
Remember, This is you trying to survive the cold, wet night. I'm sure you are going to do everything in your power to make it as pleasant as possible.
You have been on this island for 5 days hunting. Get your mind into the scenario. Become the person standing there in the cold and dark all alone. Day light won't come until around 9:00am.
klkak
10-02-2008, 11:34 PM
good point crashdive. since i have to listen to the rules; i would scrape some dry bark from the trees and find the driest possible wood i can. and since i have a leatherman and a 338 i could pull the bullet out of the case and use some powder to help me out if i need to.
This is a good game should play it more often
Good ideas. But how are you going to light the gunpowder?
crashdive123
10-02-2008, 11:51 PM
Between the plastic sheeting and the waterproof gear that I have on I could probably pile and gather enough moss to keep me warm and not get any wetter than I already was. As far as starting a fire in those conditions with the items I had, I would try the gunpowder trick (not a high level of confidence in my ability to make the following happen, but I would try after constructing adequate shelter). Using the supertool and holding the cartridge try striking the primer with enough force to ignite it and in turn ignite the powder and tinder I had collected. Would not spend a great deal of effort on this, but would try it. If no success, would take the back of my divers watch off and remove two small pieces (springs, wires, solder leads) that I could use as conductors. After staging all materials while using led lamp - remove led, insert leads, touch together to generate spark and ignite powder and tinder pile. Wheter or not it worked I would then snuggle in for the night - cuss out the pilot and try and get some sleep.
klkak,
Maybe I should write more clearly because sometimes I just make assumptions in these scenarios. I'm assuming a person will don the warmest and driest clothes before crawling into the hole. With the clothes you described having, you're going to be able to stay warm and dry "enough", not totally, if you make the blanket out of moss the way Nell described cutting it out and pull it back over yourself. Your body heat stays trapped in the hole for a pretty good period of time. I'd like to take credit for this idea but I know a guy who flipped a boat in a northern Manitoba lake in late October in a mixed snow/rain storm and when he got to shore his belt knife and his wet clothes were literally everything he had. He stayed alive three days by doing exactly what I described until he heard searchers and crawled out of his little den. So when I saw the moss ground cover, I immediately went with what he did. Oh he did crawl out once and find some frozen berries and crawled back under the moss with them
Dennis K.
10-03-2008, 11:29 AM
Remove extra layers of clothing while building shelter - no fun to sweat when a cold night is looming.
Build shelter w/ plastic sheet, hopefully under evergreen canopy, and within 200yds of pickup location. Shelter would be low to the ground, quansit-hut style - moss as an added layer of insulation on the ground, 3 edges of shelter sealed to the ground with moss to keep wind out, residual body heat in. last edge unsealed, so I can get in.
Put all layers back on, get in shelter and stay put. Day pack can be used as an extra layer to cover hands, feet or head if I start getting too cold. Eat trail mix - digesting food will help me generate a small amount of heat.
Next day, I'll be friggin cold, stiff, and in a horribly bad mood. Pilot needs to buy me much whiskey when I'm back in civilization.
Bibow
10-03-2008, 11:36 AM
well i always carry a lighter and or matches and sometimes a flint especially if i'm going through the trouble of carrying 2 guns.
Dennis K.
10-03-2008, 11:46 AM
right. and I would carry a sat phone, too. but the rules for this scenario are to use only what's on the equipment list. Perhaps in this scenario, you had gear you mentioned, and it was sent back on the earlier flight.
Sourdough
10-03-2008, 12:25 PM
Old guides ain't much on climbing into a moss hole, if I have a light, and there is a cabin 3.3 miles away. Pancakes are at 7:AM........:)
It is less than 1/2 mile to several cabins and a seaplane base, which should have people on Peak Island, start shooting and yelling...:)
klkak
10-03-2008, 12:49 PM
This scenario is designed to get you to think outside the "survival box" most of us have put ourselves in. It is not a stretch of the imagination to think that this could happen.
Lets start with where you decide to put your shelter for the night. You have been on this island for 5 days. You no doubt would have put your camp some place with good drainage. ie. Dry ground. But dry ground does not mean warm ground. Laying on cold ground will suck the heat right out of your body. You need to insulate yourself from the ground.
Most outfitters and guides have specific places where they take their clients. Those places most likely have been used more then just once and is fairly close to the drop off point.
About building a fire if you decided you would need one. Your original camp sight most likely had a fire pit. With a fire pit comes the need for wood. There may be some left. You don't have a convenient way of starting a fire. Some of you eluded to using the powder from one of your rifle rounds. How do you set it off? Has anyone ever seen a revolver fired in low light or the dark? There is quite a bit of super hot gas and flame that escapes from the gap between cylinder and barrel and you have 50rds. Don't forget you are wearing "cotton" boxer briefs.
These are just a couple of examples. If you don't restrict yourself.
klkak
10-03-2008, 12:53 PM
Old guides ain't much on climbing into a moss hole, if I have a light, and there is a cabin 3.3 miles away. Pancakes are at 7:AM........:)
If the tide is out, it is less than two miles to several cabins on Peak Island...:)
And the water is a crisp 35 to 40 degrees.:D
Sourdough
10-03-2008, 12:59 PM
Never let your tent and sleeping bag go on any flight but the one your body is on. If the plane crashes you'll need your bag, or the pilot can use it, if your a gone'er.
No professional Alaska Bush Pilot would ever leave someone without tent and bag and food.
Sourdough
10-03-2008, 01:05 PM
And the water is a crisp 35 to 40 degrees.:D
There is a cabin 3.3 miles South, South, East and no water to cross. On the same island, different bay.
Sourdough
10-03-2008, 01:08 PM
And the water is a crisp 35 to 40 degrees.:D
It appears to be a maned seaplane base, just start shooting and yelling it is only 1/4 to 1/2 mile across. I only swim in warm water.
klkak
10-03-2008, 01:24 PM
Never let your tent and sleeping bag go on any flight but the one your body is on. If the plane crashes you'll need your bag, or the pilot can use it, if your a gone'er.
No professional Alaska Bush Pilot would ever leave someone without tent and bag and food.
True, but for the scenario to work it was necessary to be left with very little gear.
Sourdough
10-03-2008, 02:36 PM
The first story I heard in Alaska was two rich guys get dropped off, pilot says, you guys got everything you need....? Yep. we just need some big sheep. Pilot flies over 4 days later on the way to another camp, he looks down to see if they got sheep meat to come out, and they are jumping and waving. So he lands. They had not realized that there was not trees, so they burnt all they money and smashed their gun stocks with rocks to split them up for firewood, they had never left camp, and never thought to need a gas stove.
klkak
10-03-2008, 02:41 PM
I've never heard that one.
Bibow
10-03-2008, 02:42 PM
more money than marbles. how could they have over looked such a big thing.
klkak
10-03-2008, 02:47 PM
It appears to be a maned seaplane base, just start shooting and yelling it is only 1/4 to 1/2 mile across. I only swim in warm water.
It is actually only a sea plane anchorage. There are no structures there.
Sourdough
10-03-2008, 03:06 PM
more money than marbles. how could they have over looked such a big thing.
Well back in the old days be for google university, even way back be for computers, we just lived life as a daring adventure. On my first Alaska hunt I hiked into cripple creek. And made most of the mistakes one can make, lived, learned, and moved on.
I fear most people now days have most of their outdoor experience vicariously on the computer. They obsess about the perfect gear, perfect place, perfect knife, etc. Just grab some stuff and go for it. Forget the perfect knife, just take a kitchen knife and call it good, or spend your whole life getting perfect gear.
(making note) Wrap kitchen knife in towel. Got it! This will be vicariously fun!!
Jericho117
10-03-2008, 06:20 PM
Having to much equipment bothers me. It creates to much possible things to create or set up.
crashdive123
10-03-2008, 06:21 PM
Having to much equipment bothers me. It creates to much possible things to create or set up.
????? is that kind of like being too prepared?
Jericho117
10-03-2008, 06:24 PM
Sort of, in a way. I know it wouldn't be idiotic to bring excess amount of equipment if you plan on just hunting, your not planning on a survival situation, it just seems like to much, I was thinking just a couple basic items. Just my opinion, I don't think I can clearify it as much as I would want to. Oh well.
klkak
10-03-2008, 07:13 PM
Jericho, It is possible to carry an excessive amount of equipment and supply's. In the same sense it also possible to not have enough. The later could cause great suffering or death. I have described in another post that when my three friends and I go hunting on certain islands for 2 weeks we carry about 1 ton of equipment and supply's. Is that excessive? Not on your life!
The amount of stuff you carry is directly related to the environment you are going to be in. It would be something to feel good about if you could walk out of your house and into the wild with nothing more then what you are wearing and whats in your pockets. Then return a few days later no worse for wear. **There aren't many folks that can do that however.** To consider doing it in November any where north of I-40 and you are down to a small handful of people.
This scenario is designed to get you to think outside the "survival box" most of us have put ourselves in.
Sourdough
10-03-2008, 07:17 PM
Can't we just talk about the perfect survival knife. And the perfect goat-tex clothing.
klkak
10-03-2008, 07:36 PM
Can't we just talk about the perfect survival knife. And the perfect goat-tex clothing.
I own the only perfect survival knife.
That goat-tex clothing is not healthy! After all look what happened to the goat that was wearing it before it was made into clothing!
klkak
10-03-2008, 07:43 PM
Perhaps one of the other survival instructors could post another "Beginner" scenario.
ledzeppie
10-03-2008, 11:37 PM
Hmm, I would probably make a quick one-man shelter with the plastic sheeting, then quickly grab a few small logs, and some evergreen branches to get yourself off the ground. Maybe if you have time/your still warm enough grab some moss and put it over the plastic sheeting for insulation.
Making a fire's probably not very likely, so i guess I'll just leave it at that.
erunkiswldrnssurvival
10-04-2008, 12:01 AM
I know what you mean klkak, grass hoppers rule
klkak
10-04-2008, 12:23 AM
I know what you mean klkak, The injury is almost un bearable to the victim. to be wet, cold,injured and in the wilderness,is a rough time. the seconds that pass seem like hours.
if i had a friend in that position I would pile up tree boughs or moss (even wet) for bedding, secure the victims condition as much as possible, my mile away camp would have to come to the victim,and so would the standard attempts to secure help, (signaling) call someone,something that would be a suitable solution to "GET HELP", leaving the victim alone is not an option.
careful use of the equipment would help to stableize the condition, but additional food and items would be nessesary on the next or following days.
It appears you submitted this post in the wrong thread.:confused:
erunkiswldrnssurvival
10-04-2008, 12:31 AM
well mabe i did,
Deer Sniper
10-04-2008, 12:37 AM
Never let your tent and sleeping bag go on any flight but the one your body is on. If the plane crashes you'll need your bag, or the pilot can use it, if your a gone'er.
No professional Alaska Bush Pilot would ever leave someone without tent and bag and food.
Diddo! And if they want to, you shouldn't let them!
klkak
10-04-2008, 12:54 AM
OK people this thread is not about what a professional guide would or would not do. It is not about what you would have had with you.
This is something for you to think hard about. It gives you the opportunity to achieve a goal by improvising.
Use your imagination and put yourself on that island. By vaguely covering what you would do, does not help anyone who may read this thread and it may indicate you are not as ready or informed as you think you are.
erunkiswldrnssurvival
10-04-2008, 01:07 AM
First I would set up a shelter that is closed on three sides,all of my equipment would go into storage mode. certain trees would be torn apart to make a few hunting tools, razor sparp splinters are good.food is seldom a problem,the alaskan islands offer a profusion of plants to eat. then thier is mushrooms, wildlife on land and the sea.it is a smorgasboard of food even the bladarac sea weed is awsome.sea lettuce, that region is pact full of food and adventure.to compare alaska to some other places i have survived, alaska is food town.lets not forget bull kelp.the pine tree,sumac,and the rabbits foot clover.
Gray Wolf
10-04-2008, 01:27 AM
First I would set up a shelter that is closed on three sides,all of my equipment would go into storage mode. certain trees would be torn apart to make a few hunting tools, razor sparp splinters are good.food is seldom a problem,the alaskan islands offer a profusion of plants to eat. then thier is mushrooms, wildlife on land and the sea.it is a smorgasboard of food even the bladarac sea weed is awsome.sea lettuce, that region is pact full of food and adventure.to compare alaska to some other places i have survived, alaska is food town.lets not forget bull kelp.the pine tree,sumac,and the rabbits foot clover.
erunkis, Food and water isn't the problem, as stated you have both food and water left with you and you only have to last until morning. That's not the scenario, for you to do some harvesting. :confused:
klkak
10-04-2008, 05:58 PM
erunkis, Food and water isn't the problem, as stated you have both food and water left with you and you only have to last until morning. That's not the scenario, for you to do some harvesting. :confused:
Thank you for your help GW.
This is an example of closing ones self up in a "survival box".
erunkis, please don't be offended. A considerable number of folks have specific area's where they have a stronger knowledge. (Yours seems to be centered around foraging). There is nothing wrong with this unless other skill's suffer.
Everyone: When faced with a situation like this it is best to stop for a moment. It is at this time you would inventory all your gear. Consider the terrain and weather. Start formulating a plan. To survive in this scenario you may want to consider the following.
Do I need a shelter?
If so, where will I put it?
How will I construct it?
Do I need a fire?
If so, How will I start it?
Do I "need" food and water to make it through the night?
I invite the other instructors on the forum to provide constructive input to anyone participating in these scenario's.
Sort of like herding cats, aint it Klklak?
klkak
10-06-2008, 12:01 PM
Yea, kinda
SoarnEagle
10-06-2008, 10:42 PM
Well I joined the forum to answer this question. I hope to remain active and be involved with other posts as well :)
What would I do?
Being as it is below freezing the 1st thing that I would do is to put on the waterproof pants and parka for immediate protection from the weather. I would also put on the wool cap and glove liners for the time being to avoid frostbite as I work.
My 2nd priority is to make an expedient shelter, which I quickly set up with the plastic tarp and rope between 2 trees 8 feet apart in an "A-Frame" design. This is about 1/2 way down to the beach and on the edge of a wooded piece. My "home for the night" is about 3' high by 5' deep with the back place next to one of the trees. This gives me a place to lean back to sleep (while not extremely comfortable.. it will suffice for one night) For the time being I will stow my gear under the shelter to remain as dry as possible.
Next I will light my fire....
I prepare 4 or 5 "Fuzz sticks" from some wood that I find off the ground (standing dead wood). I also find some dry Pine Needles by digging under a tree and some fine branches on the bottom that are pretty dry still. I also find a bit if pitch. I lay all of these under my tarp's edge near the front into a "fire lay with 2/3 of the Pine Needles nearest the ground to keep ground moisture out of my fire. Next I lay the Fuzz sticks and then on top of them the twigs. I have gathered some more "Squawwood" and layed it nearby to dry off as I work. I also open the Day pack up and put on the overhead cordage as a small shelter over my "to be" fireplace just outside the shelter.
First.. I will cut from the cotton underwear a 2"X2" square. I then take a .22 round, open it with my Leatherman, and remove about 3/4 of the powder laying it on the remaining cotton from the Underwear on the fire lay under the edge my tarp. I stuff the 2"x2" square of cotton into the shell with the 1/4 powder remaining and fire the shell off. It will in turn light the cotton square.
I take this burning cloth and quickly light the cotton on the fire lay, adding the rest of the Pine Needles to the burning mass. Once everything is burning well I move it just outside my shelter onto 4 pieces of Squawwood (to keep it from ground moisture). I keep it shielded with my body until it is burning well. For the next 10 - 15 mins I am consumed with keeping the fire going... adding larger and larger wood (Which I have skinned with my knife) until it is self maintained.
I also grabbed a few Pine Needles from off the tree to much on while I was working. I take a handful of these.. and put into the water bottle. I then place this near the fire to warm up into some refreshing tea. As it is warming I eat the Trailmix.
At this point I will dress down so as not to overheat. Probably the wool cap, and the Polypro long underwear... with the wool socks will suffice. If I get too cool I can always add more layers. I will now put the waterproof pants on the ground... folded as a small groundcloth to sit on. I add some more wood to the fire and lean back against the tree to get a few hours of sleep before I get up to stoke the fire again.
- SoarnEagle
crashdive123
10-06-2008, 10:48 PM
Looking forward to your posts SoarnEagle. When you get a chance how 'bout heading over to the introduction section and tell us about yourself. Thanks.
klkak
10-07-2008, 11:08 AM
SoarnEagle, That was a detailed answer. Thank you for participating.
klkak
10-08-2008, 09:56 PM
I am preparing a few more scenario's. The next set will be much simpler in all three categories.
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