Bow Makers

[Jericho117]

Today I made a bow out of a Hickory sapling. It's about 68 inches long and im letting it dry. I was really indecisive about which way I should shape it. Make the handle rigid, make dips in the middle section, or leave a primitive style bow? Anyway I was wondering what you guys prefer on making your bows (the type of wood, preferred tillering method, draw weight, ect.....). Personally my favorite wood is Maple, and I make an all primitive bow with no rigid handle or dips, just one straight piece of wood craved out, with a 2 inch handle. But Iv'e been making those bows for quite some time, but what are the ups and downs of a dipped handle on a bow? I know they are more likely to break (downs), the grip is comfortable (ups), but is it really an ideal way to construct a bow in a long-term survival situation? I want to here your guys opinions.

[Jericho117]

The primitive bow consists of a rounded back to keep the wood from lifting, and a carved belly. But I made plenty of bows were I carved the back and front, they bend more easily and the wood doesn't lift, unless your using weak wood, not hardwood.

[huntermj]

Jericho, its sounds like you have some experience making bows. i have a lot of willow near me and would like to make a bow from it. Do you have any good web sites or personal info that would help I have never made an expedient weapon before. always relied on the .22
Thanks, Jim

[FVR]

Here is a good starter site.

http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/archer.html

Been making bows for over 15 years, what is a dipped handle? You have the D bow which bends through the handle which puts alot less stress on the limbs, bows with handles usually have more of a working limb.


I prefer hickory over maple, osage over elm, elm over hickory, hickory over everything else.

[huntermj]

great website thanks!

[FVR]

Jawg comes here every now and then. Good guy, great bowyer.

[Jericho117]

Hickory is a good wood. Theres no Osage Orange here, but iv'e heard the Plains Indians used it alot. But I also use the primitive method which involves both sides being shaved. I mean the dips on the side of the handle, that taper in the middle.

[Jericho117]

I read somewhere that the fully bending bow has a more fluid draw and is less likely to break. I will try the handle on a bow, and compare them, although it may not turn out pretty my first time.

[chiye tanka]

There use to be a guy in NH, the name of his place was Silver Arrow I think. He's world renouned as a bow maker. If you check out an issue of Primitive Archer, his adds use to be in there all the time. He uses orange osage.
Madisen Parker also makes primitive bows. Nell posted a link on one of the other threads for his web site.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

There use to be a guy in NH, the name of his place was Silver Arrow I think. He's world renouned as a bow maker. If you check out an issue of Primitive Archer, his adds use to be in there all the time. He uses orange osage.
Madisen Parker also makes primitive bows. Nell posted a link on one of the other threads for his web site.


Fred Bear is also a world renowned bow maker, Google "Fred Bear Bows" to see his designs and hand made bows.

[klkak]

Fred Bear "Was" a world renowned bow maker!

[FVR]

There are alot of bowyers out here. Go to sites like Primitive Archer, Tradgang, The bowsite, Paleoplanet, all are full of not only great information, but excellant sources for a variety of supplies.

I use to make osage, hickory, and black locust flatbows which I sold at rendezvous and art shows. Art shows, chachingggg..........


Plains Indians use to make a variety of pony bows. These are short little bows that were very staut and could put an arrow through a buffalo. There draw was not the 27 / 28 inch of the European shooters but rather around 18".

What you speak of is taking off the bark, cambium, sapwood and finding one ring for the back of the bow. Then the bow is tillered by shaping the limbs and taking wood off the belly of the bow. With a handle, your limbs will fade into a riser that you hold, that can have a rest whittled out of it and is usually a non working part of the bow.

The D bow is a very hardy bow that bends through the handle. When I made my little 48 inch pony bows, I would make a handle, but not thick enough to prevent the bow from bending through it. Just my way.

I have kind of stopped making bows, unless I have to. I have to when I decide to make one for a friend or need a new one to hunt with. My bows are usually osage orange, 60" long, thin handle, backed with 6 or 7 layers of elk or deer sinew, pulling in the area of 60 to 65lbs.

The advantage of hickory is that you can violate the rings or they can run off the side of the limb, and you can still have a very good dependable bow. Don't go ding this on elm, maple, black locust, or osage. Well, osage you can a little if you are careful, but if you are careful, you won't. Hickorys downfall is that it is affected by moisture. But if you seal the bow 5 or 6 coats, then you won't have that problem. Wax it 2 or 3 times a year and you will be good.

I can talk about this all night.............

[Gray Wolf]

Fred Bear is also a world renowned bow maker, Google "Fred Bear Bows" to see his designs and hand made bows.

He died 20 years ago!

[Jericho117]

I leave my handles somewhat rigid, thicker in the middle, but they still take on a slight bend to it.

[crashdive123]

Jericho - do you have any pics?

[Jericho117]

On my myspace I keep telling all of you guys that. I can't upload pictures here on this sight, it let me with the trout but not my tools. Go to my myspace.

[crashdive123]

Went to myspace - don't know how to find your account. Typed in jericho117, and unless you're a 37 year old guy in Alaska (I know you're 15 and in Va. Beach) couldn't find you.

[canid]

having a rigid or partially rigid handle section certainly creates a different dynamic of draw/cast, but this is easily compensated [with experience] by different allowances in tiller. in principal, a bows, limbs being tillered the same in both instances must be longer to give the same draw with the same strength, but all things not being equal, this is really needn't be the case except with verry short limbed bows [pony bows, brush bows and the like].

personally, most of my bows these days are of the modern built up riser type, as in these red oak board bows below. as you can see in one, the core stave is almost cut through in shaping the grip, and there is no great loss of integrity.

i have used a similar approach in many of my selfbows such as sapling flatbows [if you can agree to call them that]. even with alder, as long as the handle is deep enough to remain at least much more rigid than the limbs just behind the fades, i've had no problems.

[Gray Wolf]

Been making bows for over 15 years

FVR, have you ever made any kind of pony bow?

[crashdive123]

Nice looking bows Canid.

[Jericho117]

No you type in my real name---Aaron, you will see me

[Jericho117]

Those look awesome.

[FVR]

Graywolf,


Here are a few pony bows.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/horse4.jpg

Top one, 48" osage, pulling 45 at 26. Yup, 26", 7 layers of sinew with recurve tips. sister #1. Sold to a Dr. up in Pa.

Bottom one, 52" elm, pulling 50 at 27. 10 layers of sinew, static recurve.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/horse3.jpg

Elm bow strung. You can also see the bow at Hornbow.com.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/FullDraw.jpg

48" osage pony bow. Sister #2, donated to St. Judes Auction. That's a 48" bow being drawn 26". The rule is to never draw more than half the length of the bow. But, sinew is natures fiberglass.

With such short bows, I not only back the bow but also wrap the limbs with sinew. This strengthens the limbs and prevents breakage.

Well, some break, these did not.

I still have the Elm bow, can't seem to part with it.

[Jericho117]

Thier small but look really great. Iv'e always admired recurves.

[Gray Wolf]

FVR, that 48" Osage, Sister #1 looks awesome! And 45 at 26 is amazing! Nice work.

[Gray Wolf]

Thier small

Sometimes a smaller bow is better. Depending on where you are and what you're doing.

[Jericho117]

Yeah I know, more movability for hunting. Hey I was wondering, since im used to making bows from saplings and hardwood branches, if thick strips of wood from a hardwood tree eithier fire-killed or alive (when seasoned) can be used to make a bow. Iv'e never done this, and I would assume thats how modern bows are constructed, but applying that to a survival situation I think it would provide a plethora of materials, like getting 5 or 6 staves from one fallen dry tree. Does the growth rings from a tree, lets say 4-7 inches thick affect the bow in anyway? Im talking about our hardwoods here though........and im talking about splitting even lengths of wood with a knife or hatchet.

[canid]

if i'm interpreting your question correctly then this is about how traditional english longbows, and many other styles are made. the boles [trunk sections] are split into staves, seasoned off and then the backs chased [sapwood removed to allow one or a few layers only to remain, keeping one layer intact over the whole back.

[Jericho117]

Oh I didn't know that. thanks for the info.

[Rick]

Just to make you feel better I'm not going to respond to this thread.

[Jericho117]

But......you.....sort....of just....did?

[crashdive123]

OK - I won't respond either. There! You're good to go.

[Jericho117]

Two points........

[Jericho117]

Hey im drying my hickory bow with a mix of sun and smoke, do you think the smoke will turn my bow a darkish brown color over time? I never used smoke that long for my bows.

[canid]

i highly recommend you slowly dry it out of the sun to reduce hairline splitting, which even with hickory is a good possibility if the stave dries too quickly.

[Jericho117]

I dryed them inside for a couple days and they didn't crack so I layed it in the sun. I find bows that don't crack or split the first time usually won't ever during the drying process. And I said usually. It's the dry heat that I hate when I season my bows, thats why I avoid indoor drying. I found another sapling, im not sure what species, but im going to make another bow from it. But this time im going to apply pine pitch mixed with wood ashes to the tips and see how that holds up during the drying process.

[Jericho117]

Iv'e never really questioned what makes wood crack. I always thought it had something to do with the outside drying faster than the inside. In a primitive survival situation I would assume you would just let your stave season in your shelter. Anyone really know how and why wood cracks during drying? Iv'e got most of the reasons, but Im not 100 percent sure.

[crashdive123]

Your assumption on the outside drying faster than the inside is correct.

[canid]

checking and splitting are caused by different pressures inside a piece of wood, from uneven growth, and by different densities between layers. in both cases, the water evaporates out at different rates, causing one area to shrink faster than another. the area between becomes a running crack if the wood dries too fast.

for bowyering, slow seasoning the wood, sealing the end of boles or splitting into staves before curing will offset this tendency.

[Jericho117]

And does anyone know if the Hemlock tree bark when boiled creates an oil or other form of wood preservative substance.

[FVR]

Hemlock,LOL. I don't mess with that. If I want to rub my bow down, primitive way, I will use a bear grease or any non stinky bear grease. Bacon may work, but may attrack unwanted guests.

Usually I will seal my stave ends with a thick coat of shellac and then stick them up in the rafters for awhile till it dries out. Or I may stick it in a heat box for a few days, that usually works.

I have however over dried staves, you really don't realize this until you have roughed it out and started to tiller it. Then it breaks. A moisture meter works well.

If I want to air dry a stave fast, I will stick it over a heating or air cond. vent, depending on what time of year it is.

[Jericho117]

You don't use Hemlock bark? Iv'e always used animal fat and neats foot oil.

[FVR]

I use neets foot for tanning. Problem with animal fat is that I put alot into my bows, and when I finish them, I want it to last. So I stay away from greases and natural finishes. I use clear spraypaint, or tung oil, and wax. 100% sealed from moisture.

[Jericho117]

Ill heave to try the clear spraypaint, it sounds really effective.

[FVR]

My last sinew backed osage flatbow, 6 or 7 coats of clear spraypaint, fine steel wool between coats. Three coats of minwax and buffed.

3D shoot, bow strung for close to 8 hours, it poured all day. When I unstrung the bow, it did not have any string follow and pulled the same weight at the end of the day as it did in the beginning.

And the sinew was perfect.

It works.

Jay Massey use to make up an epoxy mix solution that he would put on his sinew backed bows up in Alaska. If he was still alive, I'd put my mix up against his. He ll, if he was still alive, I'd want to sit across the fire and have a cup of coffee with him. Wow.

[Jericho117]

I was reading this bow maker article on google, and he said that ironwood, hickory, and walnut where poor woods and the lose thier cast over time and they break. I also happened to come across a 200 something year old Native American Ironwood bow in perfect condition on google. And he stated that bows 40-45 pounds is good for small game. I hunt big game with 45-50 pound bows. I don't know what do you guys think about it.

[FVR]

I must disagree. Hickory makes a great bow, but you have to seal it. Walnut, sucks. Ironwood also makes a good bow, but again you must seal it. I found ironwood hard to work with and did not like it. Many others have made good bows out of it.

You can read 10 articles and you will get 10 diff. opinions on wood. You need to try all and find out for yourself.

Woods I do not like; black locust, makes a good bow, but I'm allergic to the dust. Maple, I have never made a maple bow that I liked. Ironwood, I just don't like to work it. Walnut, makes a lousy bow unless backed. Cedar, needs to be backed. Oak, easy to get, but again needs to be backed.

Woods I prefer; Osage, elm, hickory. In that order.


I shoot 60 to 65 lb selfbows, why? because I can. A sharp broadhead and a 45lb bow will kill most North American game. Shot placement.

[canid]

one thing i recently discovered about red oak:
with many woods, you have to find the right moisture content when you work with it [too damp and it takes more set, too dry and you risk cracking the stave before you get it to full tiller], yet when it was really dry here just one and two months ago, i could stabilize the red oak staves off in the shade out doors and they would dry to the point that when i used the plane, the shavings would just crumble as they came off, and still there was not the hint of cracking, all the way through floor tiller. as supple as when it was damp. i would much prefer to back these bows, but on their own they are doing rather well. medium poundage, but the limbs should have been left wider much further out [and could well be narrower towards the tip].

the way oak behaves, i'd sort of like to trysomething like a holmegaard reproduction in style, with wide flat limbs out transitioning to narrow, thick tips.

[Jericho117]

Im going up to my Grandparents house in West Virginia this thanksgiving. In thier backyard, they have thousands of chestnut trees. Im going to try oiling my bows by crushing the nuts and rubbing the oily resin onto it. It may take a few. But I like trying new things.

[Jericho117]

One last stupid little question-- Generally, do any saplings anywhere from 2 to 4 inches in diameter contain enough heartwood for a good bow, with heartwood on the belly and sapwood on the back? Thanks---Aaron

[canid]

saplings are young trees which do not yet have heartwood [hence the name i would presume]. 4 inch boles of some woods will give you a good heartwood bow, but keep in mind that even sapling bows can be nice.

if you search my uglybow thread, you can see some alder bows i made a while back, which are still holding up and are entirely sapwood, for all practical purposes. i'm going up to oregon in a few days to pick mushrooms, so i'll stop my my cousin's place to see them and try to take some pics.