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DEET
08-23-2007, 01:59 AM
START RANT
Okay here's the deal. One of my favorite hobbies (besides trying to kill myself in the woods of course:D ) is knife throwing. Well I ordered a set of colt throwing knives, you know colt the great american gun and knife manufacturer, and received them via the big brown truck today. I open the box all raring to go chuck my new knives and when I pull them out of the sheath there it is stamped right above the hilt on the blade .........CHINA.:mad: You've got to be kidding me, china?! What's next my buck knives are going to be made in korea? Well they are boxed up and ready for the big brown truck to come get them tomorrow. I'm not about to wing an inferior blade at god knows what speed at a big peice of oak, that has emergency room visit written all over it. I swear I can't believe that they would put the Colt name on a chinese blade.
END RANT


On a happier note anyone else here into knife throwing?:D

DEET
08-23-2007, 02:04 AM
sorry I put this in the wrong forum, it needs to be in the general chat forum since it has nothing to do with survival, anyone know how to move it?

SOE digital
08-23-2007, 03:30 AM
American made things are much crapper than Chinese made ;)

DEET
08-23-2007, 05:22 AM
American made things are much crapper than Chinese made ;)

Obviously you don't get the Harbor Freight catalog

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 06:49 AM
START RANT
Okay here's the deal. One of my favorite hobbies (besides trying to kill myself in the woods of course:D ) is knife throwing. Well I ordered a set of colt throwing knives, you know colt the great american gun and knife manufacturer, and received them via the big brown truck today. I open the box all raring to go chuck my new knives and when I pull them out of the sheath there it is stamped right above the hilt on the blade .........CHINA.:mad: You've got to be kidding me, china?! What's next my buck knives are going to be made in korea? Well they are boxed up and ready for the big brown truck to come get them tomorrow. I'm not about to wing an inferior blade at god knows what speed at a big peice of oak, that has emergency room visit written all over it. I swear I can't believe that they would put the Colt name on a chinese blade.
END RANT


On a happier note anyone else here into knife throwing?:D

Yeah, this could have went under one of the threads on knives, but what's done is done. I just sent a Colt Jungle Commander back to AG Russel for a refund because the steel, 420, was too soft. However a lot of Ka-bars are made in China. Ontario Knives has some throwing blades which are cool. I used to get into throwing knives back when I thought I was going to Alaska, but not anymore.:rolleyes:

Chris
08-23-2007, 10:46 AM
Many knives are made in china, and remember, the chinese have been making swords & knives for about 4 thousand years, they actually have more experience in doing so than more or less any other culture.

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 11:33 AM
START RANT
Okay here's the deal. One of my favorite hobbies (besides trying to kill myself in the woods of course:D ) is knife throwing. Well I ordered a set of colt throwing knives, you know colt the great american gun and knife manufacturer, and received them via the big brown truck today. I open the box all raring to go chuck my new knives and when I pull them out of the sheath there it is stamped right above the hilt on the blade .........CHINA.:mad: You've got to be kidding me, china?! What's next my buck knives are going to be made in korea? Well they are boxed up and ready for the big brown truck to come get them tomorrow. I'm not about to wing an inferior blade at god knows what speed at a big peice of oak, that has emergency room visit written all over it. I swear I can't believe that they would put the Colt name on a chinese blade.
END RANT


On a happier note anyone else here into knife throwing?:D

Almost forgot, My "Colt" blade was actually manufactured by the company "United Cutlery" who has since filed chapter 11 bankruptcy, and has been bought by somebody else. A lot of these "Firearm Brand Names" are actually licensed by other knife companies. You can find "Winchester" blades on the cheap at Wal-mart, for example.;)

smokelessfire
08-23-2007, 12:07 PM
some Buck knives actually ARE made in china now. not all, but some are.

smokelessfire
08-23-2007, 12:10 PM
sorry bud, that culture died out centuries ago, now they just make cheap crap, from all the scrap metal they recieve on the cheap from the good ole usa, you know such metal as from old pie plates and things. not every chinese man is a fount of ancient wisdom, grasshoppa!

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 12:10 PM
some Buck knives actually ARE made in china now. not all, but some are.

My Ka-bar Bull Dozier says "Taiwan" on the blade, and I love it!:cool:

owl_girl
08-23-2007, 12:41 PM
sorry bud, that culture died out centuries ago, now they just make cheap crap, from all the scrap metal they recieve on the cheap from the good ole usa, you know such metal as from old pie plates and things. not every chinese man is a fount of ancient wisdom, grasshoppa!
The Chinese people can make good knives and swords, you cant say an entire culture forgot how to make blades o.O A lot of companies make more money by selling cheep produces like Wal-Mart but if you do some digging around and some research I’m sure you’ll find some good Chinese blades.

owl_girl
08-23-2007, 12:57 PM
I think the Chinese just sell us cheep blades for the same reason the French sells us water…because we’ll pay for that stuff lol :D

Chris
08-23-2007, 02:18 PM
Do you think the manufacturing processes are different in China then here? Same metal, same tooling machines, just different operators, we're not talking about hand made knives.

The knife designers are here in the US, and they oversee the manufacturing in China, or Taiwain, or wherever. Its just that labor and materials cost so much less in China.

If you were expecting high carbon steel and got 440 stainless instead thats one thing, but usually the type of metal is clearly labeled by the retailer. Plus, stainless is probably going to be better for outdoor use, you aren't going to be able to keep your knife oiled in a survival situation, and it will get wet.

One of my other businesses is knife retailing, and I did a lot of business with United Cutlery. The reason they went bankrupt by the way has to do with inventory glut, not product quality, they actually produce higher quality than most of the other manufacturers. They just got greedy and ended up upside down on their inventory, owing the bank big time. I can take a knife from them made in China or Taiwain and compare it with one of their knives made in the US (UC actually sourced all over), there is no difference.

The real crap out there tends to come from India & Pakistan, especially Pakistan. Chinese can vary of course too depending on who originally designed the blade and what type of quality controls the US based company puts into it, but being made in China, atleast as far as knives go, doesn't automatically mean it is of lower quality.

owl_girl
08-23-2007, 02:47 PM
Chris makes sense

trax
08-23-2007, 03:11 PM
I think the Chinese just sell us cheep blades for the same reason the French sells us water…because we’ll pay for that stuff lol :D

Everyone, believe this --the entire world, wants a chunk of the American marketplace, the most "consuming" society in the history of the known universe. And, of course, I don't care where the product comes from, you usually get what you pay for. Caveat emptor (buyer beware) is as true now as it ever was, if not even more so.

FVR
08-23-2007, 05:05 PM
Wow, a fellow knife thrower. Thought I was the only one here who threw pointy objects.

I prefer throwing bowie style knives and hawks. The china made knives do not last. They bend.

American made throwing knives are by far the best.

Deet, have you been to www.throwzini.com?

Check it out.

By the way, foreign metal is diff. than American made metals. China, Korea, and the like use alot of scrap metal, this causes far inferior metal.

FVR
08-23-2007, 05:21 PM
Back.

Most knives we throw are pretty pricy. You get what you pay for, or in my case, trade for.

Good set of competition throwing knives will run you close to $300 bucks. Usually they can be thrown by the handle and by the blade for 1/2, full, 1.5, 2, and many more turns.


Most competitions you will need 5 knives, so many will sell you 4 and throw in the 5th one at no charge.

I did go out and purchase 5 "cheaper" bowies, and was not that happy with them. Matter of fact, I gave them away. Just can't stand crap.

Check out my homepage.

Here is an old article for ya.

http://www.danwashburn.com/throwing.html

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 05:51 PM
Do you think the manufacturing processes are different in China then here? Same metal, same tooling machines, just different operators, we're not talking about hand made knives.

The knife designers are here in the US, and they oversee the manufacturing in China, or Taiwain, or wherever. Its just that labor and materials cost so much less in China.

If you were expecting high carbon steel and got 440 stainless instead thats one thing, but usually the type of metal is clearly labeled by the retailer. Plus, stainless is probably going to be better for outdoor use, you aren't going to be able to keep your knife oiled in a survival situation, and it will get wet.

One of my other businesses is knife retailing, and I did a lot of business with United Cutlery. The reason they went bankrupt by the way has to do with inventory glut, not product quality, they actually produce higher quality than most of the other manufacturers. They just got greedy and ended up upside down on their inventory, owing the bank big time. I can take a knife from them made in China or Taiwain and compare it with one of their knives made in the US (UC actually sourced all over), there is no difference.

The real crap out there tends to come from India & Pakistan, especially Pakistan. Chinese can vary of course too depending on who originally designed the blade and what type of quality controls the US based company puts into it, but being made in China, atleast as far as knives go, doesn't automatically mean it is of lower quality.

I find your bit about United Cutlery interesting, However the "Colt Jungle Commander" wasn't, in my opinion, made from very hard steel. Just one use and I had a couple of small nicks on the blade. (Think I mighta hit a blade of grass or sumptin':D ) All that to the side, I know Ka-bar's quality and their knives are made in China!, or some of them anyway. And Wal-Mart sells the same Buck Knives other places carry, unless Buck sells 2nds, do you know if they do or not Chris?:confused:

FVR
08-23-2007, 06:26 PM
No, No, Say It Isn't So.

Kabar Made In China.

The Shame, The American Fighting Knife, An Import.

wareagle69
08-23-2007, 06:31 PM
that is why i carry my kukuri hand made and does what i need it to do..

FVR
08-23-2007, 06:32 PM
Ah, Sarge you're just yanking my chain.

Kabars, real Kabars are manuf. by Alcas/CUTCO/Vector headquarters in Olean, N.Y.


Some Kabar folding knives are made in China. I see they have won two awards for their import folders in the past.

Well, I know of one of my Kabars that is made in the US, Kabar MKII.

Chris
08-23-2007, 07:53 PM
Well UC was located just outside of Knoxville, but that doesn't mean they didn't have factories in China. Where a company has their headquarters isn't always relevant. I don't know in this case or not, just saying.

Sorry Sarge, I don't know. But yes, the Colt Jungle Commander is just stainless which isn't going to be the strongest metal. Especially not good for attacking anything hard like wood or stone.

You can buy knives made in china with better steel, you just have to pay for the better steel. So the quality isn't so much a function of where it is made, but the cost of making it.

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 08:20 PM
Back.

Most knives we throw are pretty pricy. You get what you pay for, or in my case, trade for.

Good set of competition throwing knives will run you close to $300 bucks. Usually they can be thrown by the handle and by the blade for 1/2, full, 1.5, 2, and many more turns.


Most competitions you will need 5 knives, so many will sell you 4 and throw in the 5th one at no charge.

I did go out and purchase 5 "cheaper" bowies, and was not that happy with them. Matter of fact, I gave them away. Just can't stand crap.

Check out my homepage.

Here is an old article for ya.

http://www.danwashburn.com/throwing.html

So the 1st & last letters of your screen name stand for Frank Rago? Don't worry, I saw the knives and the tomahawk, no jokes here!:rolleyes:

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 08:27 PM
Well UC was located just outside of Knoxville, but that doesn't mean they didn't have factories in China. Where a company has their headquarters isn't always relevant. I don't know in this case or not, just saying.

Sorry Sarge, I don't know. But yes, the Colt Jungle Commander is just stainless which isn't going to be the strongest metal. Especially not good for attacking anything hard like wood or stone.

You can buy knives made in china with better steel, you just have to pay for the better steel. So the quality isn't so much a function of where it is made, but the cost of making it.

I just got Ka-bar's "Bull Dozier" which is made in taiwan, yet boasts AUS8 SS. According to the people at Ka-bar it's a "stainless steel" equivalent to 1095 Carbon steel. I've already tested it more than the Colt and it does a lot better hacking job on tough wood without any change to the edge. FVR, you need to check out Ka-bar's web-site. I don't think the Ka-bar fighting knife is made in China because it boasts 1095 Carbon and all china can get is 1085, but Ka-bar shouldn't sell junk!:eek: BTW, I just checked the box for the "Bull D." and it says: "An Alcas Company.200 Homer Street, Olean, N.Y. 14760.www.ka-bar.com. check it out Wolf!

FVR
08-23-2007, 08:43 PM
I believe the Bul Dozier has won Kabar two honors of best imported folding knife.

You are right on, Kabar should not sell junk.

I do believe in the "world market" but some things just need to stay in the US. I mean, what would it be like to own a Winchester repeating rifle, made in Japan?

Or, how about a Harley Davidson that is made in Japan. Oooops, most components already are.

I do believe Gerber is still made in the US.

And,

My baby is American made, born and bred in the USA, from her sexy long legs to her silky long hair, my baby is American made.

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 08:48 PM
I believe the Bul Dozier has won Kabar two honors of best imported folding knife.

You are right on, Kabar should not sell junk.

I do believe in the "world market" but some things just need to stay in the US. I mean, what would it be like to own a Winchester repeating rifle, made in Japan?

Or, how about a Harley Davidson that is made in Japan. Oooops, most components already are.

I do believe Gerber is still made in the US.

And,

My baby is American made, born and bred in the USA, from her sexy long legs to her silky long hair, my baby is American made.

When I was a kid all the "junk" came from Japan, anybody besides me old enough to remember that!:confused:

FVR
08-23-2007, 08:54 PM
That was before Honda came out with their first 90cc motorcyle. Do you remember............

"You meet the nicest people on a Honda?"

wareagle69
08-23-2007, 08:54 PM
all i can say is fvr went up in my respect book. we can pretty much be assured that what he posts he can back it up..

nell67
08-23-2007, 08:56 PM
When I was a kid all the "junk" came from Japan, anybody besides me old enough to remember that!:confused:

uuuummmm yep sarge...I do:(

wareagle69
08-23-2007, 08:59 PM
I'm with ya old timer..

nell67
08-23-2007, 09:09 PM
I'm with ya old timer..

LOL cant deny it anymore haha!

FVR
08-23-2007, 09:13 PM
Oh so I guess we are just a bunch of "OLD FARTS." Well, that's what my wife calls me.

wareagle69
08-23-2007, 09:17 PM
my wife says i'm a pig..

trax
08-24-2007, 11:36 AM
my wife says i'm a pig..

stop teaching moose to fart, she'll stop calling you that, LOL

Tony uk
08-24-2007, 04:21 PM
START RANT
Okay here's the deal. One of my favorite hobbies (besides trying to kill myself in the woods of course:D ) is knife throwing. Well I ordered a set of colt throwing knives, you know colt the great american gun and knife manufacturer, and received them via the big brown truck today. I open the box all raring to go chuck my new knives and when I pull them out of the sheath there it is stamped right above the hilt on the blade .........CHINA.:mad: You've got to be kidding me, china?! What's next my buck knives are going to be made in korea? Well they are boxed up and ready for the big brown truck to come get them tomorrow. I'm not about to wing an inferior blade at god knows what speed at a big peice of oak, that has emergency room visit written all over it. I swear I can't believe that they would put the Colt name on a chinese blade.
END RANT


On a happier note anyone else here into knife throwing?:D
Thats really bad :( , I got something like that once but it was not a kinfe but a load of lightsticks, i had ordered high grade cyalume lightsticks and it was another brand that came

wareagle69
08-24-2007, 05:01 PM
that's not the reason trax

owl_girl
08-24-2007, 05:04 PM
that's not the reason trax
Well maybe you should take a bath.

trax
08-24-2007, 05:27 PM
that's not the reason trax
OK, partner, then I don't want to know :D :D

DEET
08-26-2007, 11:51 PM
Many knives are made in china, and remember, the chinese have been making swords & knives for about 4 thousand years, they actually have more experience in doing so than more or less any other culture.


Unless I'm mistaken I believe it was the japanese that were known for their skill at knife and sword making skills. The chinese were known for their engineering, scientific, literary, and prowess at the composite bow which the learned from the mongols and perfected. But lets get real here the chinese manufacture cut rate and dangerous items not because they can't make them better but because they really don't care.

Sarge47
08-27-2007, 12:05 AM
Unless I'm mistaken I believe it was the japanese that were known for their skill at knife and sword making skills. The chinese were known for their engineering, scientific, literary, and prowess at the composite bow which the learned from the mongols and perfected. But lets get real here the chinese manufacture cut rate and dangerous items not because they can't make them better but because they really don't care.

Deet, you make an interesting point, so let me ask you this, Both Buck & Ka-bar have some of their knives made in China, do you think the quality suffers to the point that the knife made in China is inferior to the ones made in the USA? Or do you think they maintain excellent quality control in any plant they may have in a foreign country to the exact same standards that they have over here? I, myself, would probably not buy a knife made in China by a company owned strictly by the Chinese to be placed in the US marketplace, but I'm referring to an "American owned" company.:confused:

smokelessfire
08-29-2007, 01:52 PM
ok, i know i am probably ignorant on this, but seems to me nuts produce a good enough oil for keeping a knife good, and of course animal fat is good too. try making a candle out of a walnut. just hold one end and set the other on fire. the nut burns. loaded with oil. it may not be the same as dinosaur-powered machine oil, but i say just as good. also i am not criticizing all of china, and who cares anyway, stop the pc crapola. me, i'd prefer to buy knives from switzerland or japan. no one has topped samurai sword technology(folding 400 times), except maybe the ancient muslims, who equalled or excelled it. too bad their technology is lost.

DEET
08-30-2007, 01:56 AM
Actually the knives made in china by buck and kabar are their folding knives with the rubber handles which I have had the oppurtunity to look at and I would have to say that they are inferior and don't live up to the name they are marketed under. These practices of respectable companies putting their names on inferior products will only come back to haunt them. I will have to say that the best knife I have ever owned is not american but is in fact lebanese. I purchased it while overseas and it is without any doubt the knife I would trust my life with. It's handcrafted damascus steel with a compressed leather washer hilt. I got the knife for a steal at a bazzar for only $30 american. China is not the only country manufacturing inferior products but it is my experience that anything I have ever purchased made there is total crap. I'm sure that the reason for this is not that chinese themselves are inferior but instead the companies that comission them want their product at such a cut rate price that the chinese have no choice. I also don't agree with their labor practices but that is an issue for another thread.

Sarge47
08-30-2007, 07:22 AM
Actually the knives made in china by buck and kabar are their folding knives with the rubber handles which I have had the oppurtunity to look at and I would have to say that they are inferior and don't live up to the name they are marketed under. These practices of respectable companies putting their names on inferior products will only come back to haunt them. I will have to say that the best knife I have ever owned is not american but is in fact lebanese. I purchased it while overseas and it is without any doubt the knife I would trust my life with. It's handcrafted damascus steel with a compressed leather washer hilt. I got the knife for a steal at a bazzar for only $30 american. China is not the only country manufacturing inferior products but it is my experience that anything I have ever purchased made there is total crap. I'm sure that the reason for this is not that chinese themselves are inferior but instead the companies that comission them want their product at such a cut rate price that the chinese have no choice. I also don't agree with their labor practices but that is an issue for another thread.

All that's well & good, but I'm still not giving up my "Bull Dozier"!;)

HOP
08-31-2007, 09:14 AM
I really don't think that the quality of American made items such as knives was ever in question but the companies outsourced to keep the profit margin up and the company from going under.Many of the American knife makers stil make some here and proudly put made in USA on the box but the asian stuf is posted in fine print. The chinese made rough rider knifes are fairly good knives for the price but are not a match for Case or even some of the companies that have gone under. Camilus use to make knives for several other companies but no more. If you get into some of the knife type forums you can keep abreast of this stuff.

survival scout
09-03-2007, 09:56 AM
hey how would someone go about learning knife throwing because im interested i think its a great skill to learn. hey DEET if that stuff pisses you off then read a book called why the world is flat 2.0 i think it's called its all about how the world is econmicly flat because of all the technoligy and how much we outsourse

HOP
09-03-2007, 02:26 PM
SS search Harry McAvoy for knife throwing also Blackie Colins and Gil Hibben come to mind.

FVR
09-03-2007, 03:20 PM
http://www.throwzini.com/

Good place to begin.

Do a search on the site of members and see if there are any up in NYS.

Alot depends on what you want to throw. I pref. bowies where some of my friends pref. the little ninja knives. Competitions vary and there is alot of conflict concerning some organizations.

If you want an online tut., let me know. Need to know what knife you have, length, and what kind of target.

Pine rounds work great. I use oak but then I'm a very hard thrower.

Good luck,

FVR

DEET
09-07-2007, 07:44 PM
I don't throw in competition or in a club. The way I learned was to buy a set of cheap throwing knives and just start chucking them at an old dead tree trunk in the back yard. Now I've started making my own knives, they are pretty crude but quite effective. Once you have figured out the rhythm and can remeber it you'll be sticking knives like clock work. I use cross cuts of trees now (there isn't to much left of that old tree trunk now) they work pretty good and don't cost anything, I usually stop by wherever I see some tree service cutting and ask if I could have a couple cross cuts, when you tell them why they usually find it pretty interesting and are more than willing to give you a couple.

WildGoth
09-07-2007, 09:00 PM
http://www.throwzini.com/

Good place to begin.

Do a search on the site of members and see if there are any up in NYS.

Alot depends on what you want to throw. I pref. bowies where some of my friends pref. the little ninja knives. Competitions vary and there is alot of conflict concerning some organizations.

If you want an online tut., let me know. Need to know what knife you have, length, and what kind of target.

Pine rounds work great. I use oak but then I'm a very hard thrower.

Good luck,

FVR

im up in ny

Beo
01-28-2008, 11:55 AM
Who gives two sheets who makes the knife as long as the quality is good. Of course I use only hand made knives but I pay (alot) for doing so.

Ole WV Coot
01-28-2008, 12:57 PM
How about getting a bar of mild steel at the junkyard and test it with a file to make sure it's easy to cut. Draw your outline at least a foot long and an ounce per inch will be about right. I cut 4 out many moons ago and they are played with sometimes, you just keep a chisel point or a regular point on the blade tip you don't need to sharpen anything else. Too soft? Temper a little.

beerrunner13
01-28-2008, 02:00 PM
You can add Schrade to the list of made in China. This one broke my heart, an old timer pointed it out to me in Wally world one day.

warman87
01-28-2008, 08:16 PM
START RANT
Okay here's the deal. One of my favorite hobbies (besides trying to kill myself in the woods of course:D ) is knife throwing. Well I ordered a set of colt throwing knives, you know colt the great american gun and knife manufacturer, and received them via the big brown truck today. I open the box all raring to go chuck my new knives and when I pull them out of the sheath there it is stamped right above the hilt on the blade .........CHINA.:mad: You've got to be kidding me, china?! What's next my buck knives are going to be made in korea? Well they are boxed up and ready for the big brown truck to come get them tomorrow. I'm not about to wing an inferior blade at god knows what speed at a big peice of oak, that has emergency room visit written all over it. I swear I can't believe that they would put the Colt name on a chinese blade.
END RANT


On a happier note anyone else here into knife throwing?:D

yep im very into chunkin sharp stuff i use a no spin method though :)

AdventureDoc
01-29-2008, 01:28 PM
Kukuri hand made? Wareagle--can I ask for a picture? I love that knife style! Very practical for both chopping and cutting. I'd love to know how you made yours?

Beo
01-29-2008, 01:30 PM
Making a knife from an old file who's done that?

sh4d0wm4573ri7
02-03-2008, 12:52 PM
hmmmmm I do believe me sog seal pup is stamped from Japan I must assume its crap after exstensive testing though ,,,,,, oh well the knife stays razor sharp does what I need and basically kicks @$$ who cares what the stamp says , I listen to a different drummer I suppose if it does what I had intended then I dont care where it came from

FVR
02-03-2008, 03:21 PM
I made one knife from a file. Just used a grinder and wrapped the handle. The knife is super sharp, I can wing it and it sticks, throws some pretty good sparks, but it looks like a file with an adge on it.

I do have a knife that was made out of a file that a local knife maker made. It's just awsome and throws sparks well.

dilligaf2u2
02-05-2008, 01:51 AM
K bar! Uncle Henry, Old Timer! Schrade! = China!

I have a 20 yr old Old Timer. I looked at a new Old Timer made in china. The difference would not be seen by someone that did not know there was a difference. Chris has a good point. If you trust the brand. Give it a try.

Don