Bones are better

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Bones are a better material for making alot of things including arrow heads.
Stone and steel are not always available so its a good idea to learn other methods and materials to to use in-the-stead. The wedge profile "UTed Foot"
knife is a good example of how end grains of bone stay sharp after multiple uses.Bone 100 times sharper than steel is superior at slashing and shaving.http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=111

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Uses for wood are indisputable. But when you need long lasting endurance in a tool,bone is a good choice.I made this rope rake 6 years ago "i use it often" and its still going strong. Also i personaly like SCRIMSHAW.http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=112

[tsitenha]

We like using bone also, easy to acquire and shape, seems to take on a life of its own with use.

[Gray Wolf]

Bones are a better material for making alot of things including arrow heads.

Bone 100 times sharper than steel is superior at slashing and shaving.

Are you serious, or joking? I can't tell.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Are you serious, or joking? I can't tell.

The broken end grain of bone is many times sharper than steel , though it dulls more quickly thoes first couple cuts are visibly sharper if both are tested togather. try it.

[Gray Wolf]

Ah, you must have found the bones of my great, great, great, great uncle. Legend has it, now this is just hearsay, but, he was very sharp!

[tsitenha]

The ends are "sawtoothed" for lack of a better word, just like the scalloped edge of "steak" knives this is more "efficient"

[Gray Wolf]

The ends are "sawtoothed" for lack of a better word, just like the scalloped edge of "steak" knives this is more "efficient"

From "How to Sharpen a Knife"

"If you looked at the cutting edge of a knife through a magnifying glass, you'd see that it is made up of hundreds of tiny teeth-like a saw. Through repeated use, these teeth get twisted and bent out of alignment. This is what makes a knife dull; a sharpener gets these little teeth back into alignment."

[tacmedic]

I would imagine that if you have access to bone, you are also going to have access to stones. Tools made out of stone are some of the oldest in existence, they are even making some specialized scalpel blades for delicate surgeries out of sharpened obsidian intead of steel since they can get the blade much thinner and still keep the sharp edge.

But you are right in that it is important to know how to make tools out of whatever you may have access to.

[Gray Wolf]

tacmedic, That's like the ceramic knives, super sharp, super thin and holds an edge.

[tsitenha]

It would be an extremely powerful "magnifying glass" such as a microscope.
The serrated edge (even on a bone edge) that I am talking about is much larger than this and allows the serrated edge (steak, dive knife etc..) cut slick or fibrous tissues easier while maintaining an raised edge.
When you "hone" (as on a fine stone then "stropping" it on a leather strap) a knife edge, it actually removes the radom jagged part that you are referring to, to render the cutting edge as uniformly geometric as possible. It will still have those small "teeth" but in a much more uniform size.

[Gray Wolf]

When you "hone" (as on a fine stone then "stropping" it on a leather strap) a knife edge, it actually removes the radom jagged part that you are referring to, to render the cutting edge as uniformly geometric as possible. It will still have those small "teeth" but in a much more uniform size.

And alignment, that's what I said. I personally don't like or want a serrated edge on my hunting knives. If you keep your blade sharp, it will cut very well for you.

P.S. My steak knives are not serrated, I just keep them sharp.

[Gray Wolf]

tsitenha, knives, serrated or not, has been discussed before here;

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1528

But as the wise one here says "if it works for you..."

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Snapping blades is a technique that can be used on all cutting materials;ie.. metal,shell,
stone, bone, and wood. If you cant hone it.... snap it. The edge you get is microns thick. honed edges taper to about 10 atoms or 800 microns.

[klkak]

[QUOTE=erunkiswldrnssurvival;71089]Bone 100 times sharper than steel is superior at slashing and shaving[QUOTE]

Can you please post your reference for this comment?

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

[QUOTE=erunkiswldrnssurvival;71089]Bone 100 times sharper than steel is superior at slashing and shaving[QUOTE]

Can you please post your reference for this comment?

I'll have to dig it up, one source is in a book called" roughing it easy" also information at the Cherokee museum of Native American History . I will find it on a web site tonite so give some time.:)

[Proud American]

I tried lookin for it on google found no refrences, but I don't think there sharper. Though the fact that making a knife from anything maye neccessary in some survival situations.

[klkak]

The broken end grain of bone is many times sharper than steel , though it dulls more quickly thoes first couple cuts are visibly sharper if both are tested togather. try it.

I can cut through a 1 inch Manila rope with the first cut with many of my knives. I'd like to see it done with a piece of bone. I am quite confident that if bone made such a good knife blade it would not have been replace with steel. As far as one of your other comments that "Stone and steel are not always available". I would venture to say that any place you can find a piece of bone you could just as easily find stone. I do agree that a person should be versed in the use of many different type of blade making material though.

[FVR]

I don't buy the bone is sharper than rock theory. A bone knife is better than nothing and the Cherokees also used bamboo knives successfully. Now bamboo can get real sharp, just ask anyone who has used it as a bow backing or making arrows. You can also temper it to harden it.

I have a few bone arrowheads, they are nice gimicks but I would not use them for hunting. I do have a few very crude and rough arrowheads made from pieces of chert and quartz that although not razor sharp, will kill a deer.

Now the idea of breaking the bone, that is a good idea. Like bamboo, break it and it will make a good weapon, scraper, spear point, or tool. But then so will a sharpened stick.

For quickness, break a bone and have a knife. Knapp a rock and chance cutting your finger, breaking the bone may just have a few valuable options.

I may need to try this.

I can tell ya one thang, if'n I'm skinning a hog or a deer, you can keep your metal knives as my favs are a coatal plains chert rock and a chunk of obsidian. Have to watch that obsidian though, will cut right through a thick hog hide with no problem, and maybe into your flesh.

[klkak]

I don't buy the bone is sharper than rock theory. A bone knife is better than nothing and the Cherokees also used bamboo knives successfully. Now bamboo can get real sharp, just ask anyone who has used it as a bow backing or making arrows. You can also temper it to harden it.

I have a few bone arrowheads, they are nice gimmicks but I would not use them for hunting. I do have a few very crude and rough arrowheads made from pieces of chert and quartz that although not razor sharp, will kill a deer.

Now the idea of breaking the bone, that is a good idea. Like bamboo, break it and it will make a good weapon, scraper, spear point, or tool. But then so will a sharpened stick.

For quickness, break a bone and have a knife. Knapp a rock and chance cutting your finger, breaking the bone may just have a few valuable options.

I may need to try this.

I can tell ya one thang, if'n I'm skinning a hog or a deer, you can keep your metal knives as my favs are a coastal plains chert rock and a chunk of obsidian. Have to watch that obsidian though, will cut right through a thick hog hide with no problem, and maybe into your flesh.

I've used flaked stone and obsidian on small game but never on anything bigger. The next time I find a nice piece of chert I'm gonna make an edge out of it and try it on Caribou or Moose. However I'm still gonna carry my steel knives.

[FVR]

I may dig out my skinning tools and take a pic and post. Nothing fancy, they don't even look like knives, just tools.

[Rick]

I've posted on this before. I saw a PBS special a few years ago that compared knapped stone to knives. It was amazing the end results. I hope I remember the numbers correctly. A scalpel was measured at 7 atoms across the edge while stone can be knapped to 3 atoms.

I can't support that information. That's just from memory. However, here is another source that says in part...

"The edge of an obsidian tool can be up to 100 times as sharp as a scalpel made of surgical steel."

The difference is in hardiness. The obsidian can be broken easily.

http://instruct.uwo.ca/earth-sci/088f/stoneagetools.pdf

EDIT: By the way, this link is to the University of Western Ontairo.

Read down to the part where Donald Crabtree has part of his lung removed with an obsidian scalpel!!!!!!

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I wasnt able to find a refrence yet on the internet, i'll keep looking.I've seen that same
PBS special that Rick mentioned.I wasnt suggesting that bone knives "out perform" steel
knives.however FVR coined it...when i'm skinnin' I want something sharp.Bone(and Stone)
edge thickness(es) are from 1 to 4 atoms where steel hovers at about 40 atoms(thats as thick as a dictionary in micro terms

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I may dig out my skinning tools and take a pic and post. Nothing fancy, they don't even look like knives, just tools.
I would realy like to see thoes pics, if you dont mind posting them.

[wareagle69]

as i mentione d the other day i just got 54 issues of wilderness way in the mail as i skimmed thru quickly i noticed some articles about this topic it seems to bear research anything that will prolong the life of your blade in the bush is helpful and in case of lost or broken knife ya need to be confident and compentent enough for that not to be a deal breaker on your survival.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Thanks I need to try and find some copies of those mags,

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=178

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

This Bone Knife I use for making Red Belt Bracket lamps but its good -n- sharp.and its durable enough to carve soft wood.

[Tony uk]

Very nice looking knife there, Ive never seen one like that :)

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Its a deer bone fited to a wooden(Sour Wood)Handle

[crashdive123]

Looks as though it would make a good awl. Is that copper foil around the handle?

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

Personally I prefer steel, or obsidian, flint also,, but I don't believe bone is superior to steel. And what is that they use to cut a human cell in half? a rock not a bone lol Indians used flint and various rocks seldom bone bone can be implimented into tools yes even knives, arrow heads etc. But superior no sorry I don't buy that at all.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Looks as though it would make a good awl. Is that copper foil around the handle?
Yea , I carved a long horn caribu into the handle and I press copper into it (the carving is raised to emboss the metal).

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I found this tecnique in a hand written book that I picked up somewhere years ago, It explains a primitive method of working bones....

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=204

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

This is a useful technique, to saw bones with a sinue cord that is damp and coated with stone dust. The thumb saw works well with repeated coatings in the dust.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

this video highlights bone cutting tools of primative origin...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUW3t9xj4jU

[Alexander]

I've heard of this and never really seen it done, I'm definitely looking forward to trying it.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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