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Ameriborn
08-15-2008, 06:39 PM
Well, I have regularly hunted with an Air Rifle that isn't mine, and I have killed a Coyote at 30 yards with a shot right behind the ear. It dropped in its tracks. Now, I was going to get an air rifle, but the one he had cost $300, and I could get a nice centerfire rifle for that.

Anyway, the question that I am getting at is how many FPS should I get in an Air Pistol that I would put in my survival kit? I wouldn't be taking shots of more than 15-20 yards, and most would be about 10 yards. Also, it isn't for Coyote, mainly squirrels or things of similar size.

Any recommendations?

klkak
08-16-2008, 02:49 PM
How about a Browning Buckmark or a Ruger Mk-II or anyone of the many other high quality .22's. They are no heavier and are much more powerful. Why limit yourself with a BB gun.

chiggersngrits
08-16-2008, 11:14 PM
personally in would not use an air rifle on coyote size game. iam with klkak on this one, get a .22.

canid
08-16-2008, 11:31 PM
or at least a big bore air rifle. the higher power .20 cal through .50 cal rifles made specifically for hunting [powerfull enough for big game hunting in some high powered .50 cal models] are far more appropriate than say the .177 to .20 cal plinking types generally encountered.

Ameriborn
08-17-2008, 02:09 PM
I already have a .22, which is why I wanted the Air Pistol. Plus, I like shooting cans with them more, since I can shoot a brick of 22 in a day, and it takes me at least a week to get through all of the BBs.

However, I have decided I would carry the .22 with me now.

Have any of you saw the TV show on the Versus network where the guy shoots wild hogs with an air rifle? He uses dogs to corner them and then shoots them in the head and they die. On one he even shot it in the vitals and it died. He said he shot it there just to slow it down, but it died soon after he shot it!

canid
08-17-2008, 03:28 PM
comes down to the air rifle that was used. as i said, and only recently used, they make .50 cal big game air rifles to rival many firearm cartridges. lewis and clark actually carried a .30 cal model on their voyage that had a seperate bicycle style pump.

you won't do that with a pumpmaster or other run of the mill airgun.

Bibow
08-19-2008, 02:12 PM
id say forget about spending hundreds on a piece of carp air pistol and buy a slingshot/wrist rocket. but remember to keep it warm in the winter and pull it out when your gonna shoot because it help keep the band from getting worn out

Beo
08-19-2008, 02:55 PM
comes down to the air rifle that was used. as i said, and only recently used, they make .50 cal big game air rifles to rival many firearm cartridges. lewis and clark actually carried a .30 cal model on their voyage that had a seperate bicycle style pump.

WTF? Lewis & Clark did not carry an air rifle, as a matter of fact they carried a .45 cal New England Fowler -Clark and Lewis carried a .62 cal Brown Bess Long Land Pattern Rifle, both were flintlocks shooting round ball and shot. Read the book "Undaunted Courage" written by Stephen Ambrose, its a 1996 biography of Meriwether Lewis and the Lewis and Clark Expedition. The book is based on journals written by Lewis and Clark, along with others in the expedition, and also offers additional insight into the travelers and their thoughts. The book outlines the expedition in great detail, from encounters with Native Americans, trading, wildlife, what the explorers ate, and the route the expedition took. The text is supplemented by maps, and illustrations drawn by Lewis himself. Brief biographies of the major members of the expedition Lewis, Clark, Sacagawea, etc. are also covered.
A very good read... Facts people get the facts please.

Beo
08-19-2008, 03:15 PM
Dragon Slayer Single Shot .50" caliber Dragon precharged air rifle. Beautiful hardwood chequered stock. Rubber butt pad, new side-lever action, built-in air pressure gauge and quick-fill receptor port. Rifle has no open sights. A scope and mounts of your choice can be shipped with the rifle or installed at our gun shop. Number #1 choice for big game hunting enthusiasts.

New stock provides sturdy performance you can rely on! The new Dragon model is redesigned to be better balanced for more convenient operation and hassle-free handling.

It features a new, redesigned single high pressure air tank. The pressure gauge and quick fill receptor are located right beneath the barrel at the end of the tank. The loading is operated via side-lever action on the right hand side of the stock. This latest method of loading allows for easier loading compared to the original Dragon model. This beautiful and powerful .50 caliber Big Bore rifle delivers stunning hunting performance

At 50 yards there is some drop to the bullet, but you compensate by sighting in at 40 yards, then you're on from the muzzle out to perhaps 75 yards. A rifle like this has a limited range, after all. Within that range, though, it puts those bullets right where you tell it to, as long as you do your part.

The power of the rifle tested was a tight band from 185 to 192 foot-pounds, with the heaviest bullets getting the higher power, as you would expect. testing a brand-new rifle and it has been experience that after many shots the firing mechanism will wear smoother and the power will increase a bit.

Velocity of the 225-grain Pelletman bullets ranged between a high of 613 f.p.s. and a low of 581 f.p.s. for five shots on a fresh 3,000 psi fill. The average for a five-shot string was 601 f.p.s., but the average for the first three shots was a healthy 609 f.p.s. That velocity gives an energy of 185.34 foot-pounds of energy. The start screen of the chronograph was set five feet from the muzzle and the day was 72 degrees F, with a humidity of 80 percent.

The 250-grain bullet gave an average velocity of 584 f.p.s. for five shots and 589 f.p.s. for the first three. The higher number works out to an energy of 192.63 foot-pounds. The 275-grain bullet averaged 555 f.p.s. for five with the first three going 559 f.p.s. That's an energy of 190.86 foot-pounds. Given the energy and averages for the first three shots because hunters will either make the shot or not with those. Shots four and five are for finishers, if required.
$619.99 for an air rifle, no thanks.

canid
08-19-2008, 04:13 PM
Lewis and clark air rifle (http://www4.vmi.edu/museum/air_rifle.html):

...Clock and gun maker Isaiah Lukens of Philadelphia, PA, provided Meriwether Lewis and William Clark one of his air rifles for their 1803-1806 expedition to explore the northwest. Unlike most rifles which used black powder, the air rifle used compressed air to shoot its .31 cal. bullet.

Unlike black powder rifles, an air rifle made little noise when fired. It did not make smoke and had very slight "kick." And, you didn't have to "keep your powder dry!"

The butt of the rifle is actually a metal canister designed with a needle valve to hold compressed air. The air was stored under pressure --between700 and 900 pounds per square inch! (A modern car tire carries a pressure of 35 pounds per square inch.) When the trigger is pulled, just the right amount of air is carried from the butt to the bullet chamber and the round leaves the barrel with a whish...

“Proceeding On” To The Lewis and Clark Airgun - III (http://www.beemans.net/Lewis%20&%20Clark%20Airgun.htm)

New Evidence on the Lewis and Clark Air Rifle (http://www.beemans.net/lewis-assault-rifle.htm)

and from william clark's complete journals, compiled with lewis's by the two and john bakeless:
The chiefs requested we would not leave them this evening. ... We showed them many curiosities, and the air gun, which they were much astonished at. (http://books.google.com/books?id=OACn6qtPaaUC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=we+showed+them+many+curiosities+and+the+air+gun +which+they+were+much+astonished+at.&source=web&ots=gw67JQDtv_&sig=iW26BLmqZZBv2hZz6JkqXSK5rk4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result).

Beo
08-20-2008, 09:18 AM
Sorry I guess I stand corrected, it is not mentioned in the book Undaunted Courage, which is where I got my info. Good to know and thanks, I'll get my facts straight next time.:D Although I can't see this being their primary hunting weapon it had to be a great asset to them and stun the native Americans they showed.
Again thanks,
Beo,

canid
08-20-2008, 01:55 PM
yeah; as i understand, it was a gift lewis felt compelled to take with them, rather than something they wanted, because they didn't seem to particularly excited about it themselves, and it's rarely mentioned unless it was malfunctioning or broken in an accident.

i personally would have preffered it, if indeed it where the girandoni but what can you say, not everybody has much confidence in airguns, even those which are powerfull enough for larger game hunting.

Beo
08-20-2008, 01:58 PM
And i thank you for the information since I did not know that I have now learned something new, and with my love of the colonial and frontier days it was actually much needed, the links were great too.

canid
08-20-2008, 02:09 PM
a note about the girandoni; it was designed to be a military assault weapon and was a serious repeater.

sh4d0wm4573ri7
08-27-2008, 10:21 PM
I own a high quality RWS which throws a pellet at 1000 fps and though it can be quite deadly I would hesitate to hunt with it much preffering my .22 or 12

tuxdad
10-27-2008, 12:38 PM
WTF? Lewis & Clark did not carry an air rifle, as a matter of fact they carried a .45 cal New England Fowler -Clark and Lewis carried a .62 cal Brown Bess Long Land Pattern Rifle, both were flintlocks shooting round ball and shot. Read the book "Undaunted Courage" written by Stephen Ambrose, its a 1996 biography of Meriwether Lewis and the Lewis and Clark Expedition. The book is based on journals written by Lewis and Clark, along with others in the expedition, and also offers additional insight into the travelers and their thoughts. The book outlines the expedition in great detail, from encounters with Native Americans, trading, wildlife, what the explorers ate, and the route the expedition took. The text is supplemented by maps, and illustrations drawn by Lewis himself. Brief biographies of the major members of the expedition Lewis, Clark, Sacagawea, etc. are also covered.
A very good read... Facts people get the facts please.

Actually Lewis and CLark did carry an airgun(for experimental purposes).. It was quite effective .. The original was given to the NRA museum(I think), by Dr. Robert Beeman, and a handbuilt copy was presented to him, which functioned just as well.. I had the distinct pleasure to hold the the original, as well as the reproduction.. A very good friend of mine did all the leatherwork for reproduction.. Let me tell you, I had goosebumps for days after holding both of them...

If you do decide on an air pistol(177), please stick to using it for small game.. I've used mine for that purpose for quite a long time, with no complaints..
Personally, I'm not too keen on those Gamo's they show on tv, I don't see them lasting too long with using those light pellets in spring piston air rifles...

Best of luck to you in your choice:)

crashdive123
10-27-2008, 02:33 PM
Hey Tuxdad - how about shootin on over to the introduction section when you get a chance and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks.

Runs With Beer
10-27-2008, 06:56 PM
Ijust bought a Beeman R2 Sportsman at Wallmart. Comes with a 177 and 22 barrel. The 22 is hek on birds, alittle too much, But puts small game right to sleep.

tuxdad
10-27-2008, 11:02 PM
Sorry, will do that ASAP..

Had to chime in on this subject before I headed to work..

:o

I've got an RWS Model 48 rifle, and a Benjamin Sheridan pistol that are both bad medicine for small game, and a few other unwanted critters(groundhogs, chipmunks, etc..).. Now I do have a few 22's, there are just those times when it's better not to draw attention to yourself(such as living in a small town, with a city limit firearms restriction)..

I use heavy pellets for my RWS, which eliminates the "crack" of breaking the sound barrier, where as a lot of these gamo's are doing just that with these very light pellets.. I tried them once in my RWS and it was MUCH louder than I care for as well as over time it may damage the piston.. Best of luck with your purchase !!

Tux

SARKY
11-01-2008, 01:31 AM
If you are going hunting....then go hunting! if you are talking about a survival situation, unless the game is tripping over you and even then, don't waste the calories you may need later. traps and snares is the way to go. expend your calories gathering fire wood and building shelter. you can check your traps and snares every time you go out for wood or shelter fixin's

BaerClaw
11-19-2008, 07:18 PM
this is the one i think looks the best for the $ and ive been looking at.
http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/RWS_5G_Diana_Pellet_Pistol_p/dyn2166925.htm

benefits i think a pellet gun might have are you can carry thousands of rounds in a cup size container, and won't give away your position if you were worried about other people and won't scare game as much. although it's pricey, it's a single pump which only takes seconds to reload vs. a multipump which can take more than minute and can scare away game just with the pumping noise alone, but only costs $50

klkak
11-19-2008, 11:39 PM
this is the one i think looks the best for the $ and ive been looking at.
http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/RWS_5G_Diana_Pellet_Pistol_p/dyn2166925.htm

benefits i think a pellet gun might have are you can carry thousands of rounds in a cup size container, and won't give away your position if you were worried about other people and won't scare game as much. although it's pricey, it's a single pump which only takes seconds to reload vs. a multipump which can take more than minute and can scare away game just with the pumping noise alone, but only costs $50

I don't think I'm wrong here. This is a wilderness survival forum. We talk about wilderness survival. Why would you care if your weapon of choice gives away your position. Unless you have something to hide in which case you are probably doing something illegal. One of the most important things in a survival situation is getting found. Making noise is one way of ensuring that happens. Whether you choose to use a pellet gun or a 12 guage shotgun, make that choice for the right reasons.

BaerClaw
11-20-2008, 12:33 AM
I don't think I'm wrong here. This is a wilderness survival forum. We talk about wilderness survival. Why would you care if your weapon of choice gives away your position. Unless you have something to hide in which case you are probably doing something illegal. One of the most important things in a survival situation is getting found. Making noise is one way of ensuring that happens. Whether you choose to use a pellet gun or a 12 guage shotgun, make that choice for the right reasons.

Sorry I forgot trying to survive in the woods after an apocalypse or in a war zone isn't wilderness survival.......... try thinking next time!
would you want to give up your location to man with a gun trying to feed his family too or a group of soldier trying to kill you!?! to truly be prepared you must try to plane for every survival situation. scout motto "always be prepared"

HOP
11-20-2008, 07:34 AM
I already have a .22, which is why I wanted the Air Pistol. Plus, I like shooting cans with them more, since I can shoot a brick of 22 in a day, and it takes me at least a week to get through all of the BBs.

However, I have decided I would carry the .22 with me now.

Have any of you saw the TV show on the Versus network where the guy shoots wild hogs with an air rifle? He uses dogs to corner them and then shoots them in the head and they die. On one he even shot it in the vitals and it died. He said he shot it there just to slow it down, but it died soon after he shot it!


Sorry I forgot trying to survive in the woods after an apocalypse or in a war zone isn't wilderness survival.......... try thinking next time!
would you want to give up your location to man with a gun trying to feed his family too or a group of soldier trying to kill you!?! to truly be prepared you must try to plane for every survival situation. scout motto "always be prepared"

I have seen the air gun show and while the Hunting Professor does a god job I get the impression that he is a representative of the Gamo company and that his shows are carefully edited to so mostly clean one shot kills.

I see your point about being low key but if there are bogies about I would put out snares and leave the heavy air rifle put away and replace the wait with a substantive defensive tool and ammo.

BaerClaw
11-20-2008, 07:09 PM
I have seen the air gun show and while the Hunting Professor does a god job I get the impression that he is a representative of the Gamo company and that his shows are carefully edited to so mostly clean one shot kills.

I see your point about being low key but if there are bogies about I would put out snares and leave the heavy air rifle put away and replace the wait with a substantive defensive tool and ammo.

yeah I agree i would not want it as my defensive gun but with a AR15 haha and im also not talk about a heavy air rifle Im talking a fairly lightweight air pistol and a 1000 rounds in coffee cup size container. the Ruger 10/22 with a lightweight barrel and stock is the gun id use as for a hope to be found survival gun.

here is the air pistol im talking about. plus i love air guns there so much FUN! if i got this id probably use it more then any other gun i have! haha
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp;jsessionid=AKYBSZHAKQ0VPLAQBBKCCN3MCAEFKI WE?id=0043407228476a&type=product&cmCat=perf&rid=0180101070502&xpid=k17401&cm_ven=Performics&cm_cat=Affiliate-click&cm_pla=Nextag&cm_ite=DDI%20Link&afsrc=1&_requestid=39174&_requestid=118541

klkak
11-23-2008, 03:20 AM
Sorry I forgot trying to survive in the woods after an apocalypse or in a war zone isn't wilderness survival.......... try thinking next time!
would you want to give up your location to man with a gun trying to feed his family too or a group of soldier trying to kill you!?! to truly be prepared you must try to plane for every survival situation. scout motto "always be prepared"

You are trying to compare apples to butterflies!

Lets not forget that I am a former U.S. military Combat instructor, E & E instructor and Wilderness survival instructor. I also have several years of experience in military operations in harms way. As well as 10 years of subsistence living caring for my mother and siblings.

I have some questions for you.

1) Are you in the military?
2) Are you or are you likely to be in a war zone?
3) Do you really believe you will be in the aftermath of an apocalypse?

There is a big difference in surviving in a war zone and surviving in the woods of Minnesota.

If you are in the military then you know you can't carry unauthorized weapons.

If you are not in the military. Then you are not likely to be in a war zone.

If you believe you will be in the aftermath of an apocalypse then you are watching to much T.V. and spending to much time listening to conspiracy radio.

Being prepared is a good thing. Spend time preparing for a really bad winter, or being unemployed for 6 months.

Preparing for a group of soldiers trying to kill you and you are not in the military or in a war zone or an apocalypse is nothing short of mental illness.

Rick
11-23-2008, 10:17 AM
try thinking next time!

Seriously now. You picked the wrong guy to say that to. If I had to be marooned in the Alaskan wilderness or somewhere up near Great Bear Lake, there are only a handful of folks on here that I'd want with me (No, they don't get a vote on whether I tag along). Klkak would be one of them. But, hey, it WAS funny.

Gray Wolf
11-23-2008, 02:26 PM
Sorry I forgot trying to survive in the woods after an apocalypse or in a war zone isn't wilderness survival.......... try thinking next time!
would you want to give up your location to man with a gun trying to feed his family too or a group of soldier trying to kill you!?! to truly be prepared you must try to plane for every survival situation. scout motto "always be prepared"

You need to think next time, and maybe do a little reading up on who your criticizing! klkak is one of the few people here that you would want with you in any survival situation. Besides for that, I have been in war zones, did two tours. NOT ONCE did I see a combatant with a silencer on his weapon. You watch to many movies about covert ops. :rolleyes:

BaerClaw
11-23-2008, 04:30 PM
if you guys say so. he said sh## about my idea so i gave him sh## back. plus dont act so tuff i fight competively and me against you klkak wouldnt even be sport. if you were more respectful in your comments you wouldnt get such snippy comments back.

make the choice for the right reasons. ; )

some ppl just like air guns dam##! haha

you shouldnt be trying to make enemies. so you go to my profile klkak and see im in my 20's so you list all the things youve done knowing it will be more then me because of my age. to make you look good to everyone well remember because of your age time, speed, strenght, and endurance are on my side. and im willing to learn from you if your willing to get off the pedestal.

also im sick of guys how can give it and cant take it. think about it next time just because hes your friend he can say what ever he wants to new members but the new guy gives him a little sh** back and every one jumps in behind him. more like a pack of school girls an wolfs

Rick
11-23-2008, 05:45 PM
Jeeez. Who twisted your petticoat in a knot? Chill out, partner. You might try listening to what some of the old men have to say. You just might find yourself learning something.;)

crashdive123
11-23-2008, 06:01 PM
Well I'm not in my twenties, I'm in my fifties.

I don't fight competively, when I fight it's for keeps.

I didn't need to read either bio to know whom I would prefer to have on my side in a tough situation.

Pack of school girls???? Good luck seeing your thirties.

BaerClaw
11-23-2008, 06:11 PM
Well I'm not in my twenties, I'm in my fifties.

I don't fight competively, when I fight it's for keeps.

I didn't need to read either bio to know whom I would prefer to have on my side in a tough situation.

Pack of school girls???? Good luck seeing your thirties.

bring it ill show you keeps...

crashdive123
11-23-2008, 06:17 PM
You know, when you first came to the forum I thought you were welcomed rather warmly and that you had some valuable information to share. My opinion has changed a bit. If you want to play billy bad azz, find some other place to play.

Rick
11-23-2008, 06:17 PM
BaerClaw - If you keep this up we WILL send this girl to your house. She takes no hostages. Just be forewarned.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/shared-blogs/palmbeach/cerabino/media/wedgie.jpg

BaerClaw
11-23-2008, 06:29 PM
You know, when you first came to the forum I thought you were welcomed rather warmly and that you had some valuable information to share. My opinion has changed a bit. If you want to play billy bad azz, find some other place to play.

I did to and wanted to! but didn't realise this site was a remake of grumper old men. i never wanted for anything to start but thats hard with every one in my face.

nice dictatorship you guys call a forum i wont be logging in anymore thanks.

RICK you see him crashdive123 threaten me then warn me!?!? wtf

Rick
11-23-2008, 06:32 PM
Serious lack of survival skills there BaerClaw. It's called thin skin. If you can't take a few sour words you certainly couldn't last long in the wild. Sayonara!

BaerClaw
11-23-2008, 06:35 PM
what about every one geting pissed at me they have thick skin? hahaha your funny

Rick
11-23-2008, 06:35 PM
What? Are you still here? I thought you left? Well, then. Welcome back.

crashdive123
11-23-2008, 06:36 PM
I can see that you have honed those survival skills to.........how did you put it.........I mean you said it so eloquently........oh yeah.......you have honed those survival skills so well that you get chased off by a pack of school girls.

If you would like to stay, then stay. You probably have a lot to offer, and might learn a bit as well. If you decide to go, then go. Either way you do not have to announce your intentions. Like the sportswear slogan says, just do it.

crashdive123
11-23-2008, 06:53 PM
I just read the edit that you did to your post.


RICK you see him crashdive123 threaten me then warn me!?!? wtf

If you felt threatened by any of the posts in this thread, then it is probably best if you stick with the little school girls --- not as scarey as a bunch of grumpy old men.

Rick
11-23-2008, 07:03 PM
Uh, when did I warn you? I just said you needed a thicker skin. That's all.

Gray Wolf
11-23-2008, 10:08 PM
so you go to my profile klkak and see im in my 20's so you list all the things youve done knowing it will be more then me because of my age. to make you look good to everyone
BaerClaw, I welcomed you here, told you to make yourself at home, you said you were interested in learning more about the wilderness, and you were also in your last semester of college. Aren't your Professors older than you? Don't they have access to your profile? I'm sure you didn't walk into their class and disrespect them, nor tell them you know more than they do, nor tell them how they should act or teach. Just in case you never learned these two things, respect is earned. klkak has earned that respect here because of his knowledge of wilderness survival (and much more). The second is, knowledge is power, not that you're a big bad azz. And just for your information, during combat I saw some real tough guy bad azzes crap in their pants during their first fire-fight. Be a man, apologize, and let's go from there. Fair enough?

klkak
11-23-2008, 11:05 PM
plus dont act so tuff i fight competively and me against you klkak wouldnt even be sport.

make the choice for the right reasons. ; )

so you go to my profile klkak and see im in my 20's so you list all the things youve done knowing it will be more then me because of my age.


I'm sorry you are so tough that you have to fight competitively. I would caution you to think about it several times before you face off with an old man.

So you are 20 and have no combat experience. In a way I'm happy you won't have to live with those memories. My 22 yr. old nephew has 2 tours in Iraq and my 20 yr. old niece has one tour in Afghanistan and will be going to Iraq next summer.

I made those statement in my earlier post so you would know I wasn't talking out the side of my neck. I think it is great that you have a pellet gun. Having it for the reasons you listed made absolutely no sense. Having one so you can kill squirrels in your back yard without having the police come visit you is cool. Having a pellet gun in your hands when a group of soldiers is trying to kill you is very bad and is very unlikely to ever happen in this country.

My young friend I will never knowingly give you bad information. Long ago I devoted my life to make sure others had more knowledge then I had when I went into harms way or into the wilderness. One other thing I will not do is coddle someone. If you are speaking out of ignorance or trying to pass off B.S. as facts, I will call you on it.

Now if you want to continue trading punches here then you will have to do it alone. I have found no point in arguing over knowledge and wisdom. If you want to learn then you will listen to those old men that you think you can whip.

One more thing....No one on this forum has to stand up for me. They do it because I've earned their respect. Just as I will stand up for many of them. If you hang out around here long enough and humble yourself. You will earn not only the respect of others but of me. Regardless if you value it.

klkak
12-01-2008, 03:54 AM
For those that use or are thinking of getting an air rifle or air pistol. I did some shooting with my air rifle over my chronograph. I am providing the following information to help you make a more informed choice.

This in a .177 caliber air rifle. Its advertised muzzle velocity is 1000fps (I achieve this velocity with my chosen pellets). The pellets I use weight 7.9 grains. I am exceptionally good with this gun. I routinely kill pigeons with head shot at a laser verified range of 41 yards. I have shot several snowshoe hare with this gun and decided it was marginal at best. If the range is kept down to less 25 yards and a clean head shot is taken it will take snowshoe's. Body shot are rarely instantly fatal. It is deadly on spruce grouse and squirrels if the range is kept to less then 25 yards.

I don't recommend an air rifle of less then a high velocity .22 caliber for hunting and .25 caliber would be better. I would never recommend an air rifle as a survival weapon.

crashdive123
01-03-2009, 01:22 AM
Sarge - move to General Survival