PDA

View Full Version : About Food.



Sarge47
08-18-2007, 01:37 AM
Yes it is true that a human can three weeks without food; what the people who write that either don't tell you or you haven't read that far is you still need food! Food provides calories, which in turn provide energy, which you will need to do the things you need to do to survive! Go without food for only a few days and as you expand energy without replacing it you will become indecisive, weak, and lack the drive you need to get you out of the situation your in. In the Discovery channel's 2 part program on the "Marine Corps Survival School" they didn't give each "Jarhead" an egg and a lone match. They were going up into a mountainous terrain in the dead of winter so each one was given one half of a days ration, (One "cold weather" MRE) and a live rabbit, which they had to kill ,skin, gut, disjoint, & cook. They were not allowed ANY matches or lighters as they all had to learn to start a fire using the "Bow & Drill" method 1st. Once they accomplished this task they were given the designation: "Master of Fire" along with a really nice flint & steel set in a cool leather pouch that they slid onto their belts. They all wore GI Issue Polypropolyne thermals, "Mickey Boots", and other "ECWCS" clothing and equipment, including the 3-piece Sleeping bag system. Please note: This is the Marine Corps; "Hard charging Devil Dogs"; as hard-core as your going to find anywhere, and they carried canteens, mess kits, knives, etc.. No one decided to head up into the mountains wearing nothing but a loin cloth and carrying a stone axe. They had to forage for food, and here's the important part...Their diet included not only the MRE and every edible part of that rabbit they were given, but fish and any other game they might scare up. There were no, or very little edible plants. It still was a hard-core class. Food is nessasary, and if you don't want to eat bugs and grass, learn to fish, trap, and hunt game, use a hand-made sling if you have to!:cool:

owl_girl
08-18-2007, 02:52 AM
Food keeps you warm to. Also if I don’t eat enough I can get really dizzy which could be a problem if I was trying to survive out in the wild.

wareagle69
08-18-2007, 06:29 PM
i want my... ah nevermind

DEET
08-18-2007, 08:17 PM
I deleted this reply since it really had nothing constructive to add to the topic

rusty_oxydado
08-18-2007, 10:45 PM
That is you can easilly survive 3 weeks without food where you are right now, in the brush your are digesting yourself well before the 3 weeks time period, cause your body is fighting to adapt it's self to it's surroundings, and as you won't be sitting on your hands you will be burning calories like crazy just to fuel yourself to get around.
Depending on the conditions critters will be chewing on your bones before the three weeks are up.
If you cant get protien, then work on getting nutrients then, but get something working.
If you are going to die don't lay down and let death take you, get mad and put up a fight all the way, and do what you can even if you have to chew willow twig tips!

FVR
08-18-2007, 11:03 PM
I'm going to go make a sandwich, get a bowl of chips, and some ginger ale and read Vol's thread again.

Oh hell, I'm just going to eat.

Fog_Harbor
08-19-2007, 10:44 AM
I think it might be better stated as; You CAN live a few weeks without food - but it isn't a good idea, for the reasons stated above.

owl_girl
08-19-2007, 02:53 PM
My "little" text above is just to re-situate food and maybe understand a little better the deep importance and meanings it has for us...like Owl Girl's post is fascinating to me....


Do you have any questions about my post volwest? Id be happy to answer any.
I should probably ad that I don’t get dizzy from just missing super, last time I was dizzy it was because I was eating one meal a day for a week. And I was dizzy the whole week and I had very little energy. This usually happens if there’s a sudden decrease in food or if my activity level suddenly changes, like if I exercise every day for a couple weeks and then I stop…that will make me dizzy. If I gradually decrease my food intake I won’t get dizzy though. After 2 days of not eating I can feel my energy level go down and it’s a little uncomfortable but not to bad. I’ve never gone longer than 2 days without food though

trax
08-20-2007, 02:56 PM
I'm going to have to start packing a lunch to make it through volwest's posts :)

trax
08-20-2007, 02:56 PM
eat my book collection, :eek:

owl_girl
08-21-2007, 04:15 AM
Trax and Volwest…that was hilarious :D

trax
08-21-2007, 11:17 AM
You would starve to death.
But wouldn't I die smart? LOL:D :D

nell67
08-21-2007, 01:30 PM
trax,

I am not sure that eating books is the right way to to go about "ingesting" knowledge.May be a little rough on the digestion...:p

trax
08-21-2007, 01:32 PM
trying to get more fiber in the ol' diet Nell :D :D

nell67
08-21-2007, 02:01 PM
trying to get more fiber in the ol' diet Nell :D :D

Haha! so maybe a few others need some roughage,eh? Care to share?

FVR
08-21-2007, 09:34 PM
Funny thing about eating, I've gone two days without eating just cause. Usually it's in the summer when it's hot. Drink alot of water, food just does not seem to be needed.

But it is.

I've learned to force eat when working hard out in the heat. Drink plenty of water and gator., 3 to 1 ratio. Don't eat heavy burgers, rather a salad with mixed chicken, veggys, stay away from any acidy vegs and fruits.

The idea of not eating for 3 weeks just makes my muscles hurt. On a good note, hey bet my six pack would be tighter.

wareagle69
08-21-2007, 09:41 PM
six pack... six pack ... oh yeah now i remember what i was doing. where did i put that thing.. be right back.

Sarge47
08-21-2007, 09:49 PM
Here's the thing, if I don't eat every 20 minutes or so I'll lose my appetite. I think we wore Wareagle out!:rolleyes:

DEET
08-22-2007, 04:52 AM
You're body type is very important when it comes to surviving without food. If you have the six pack abs and ripped muscular build with very little body fat you will become nourishment for your companions. It all depends on your reserves. I am not in the best shape, I'm a little overweight but that is actually a good thing in a survival situation, it gives your body a few days of energy without the drop off. I have to agree with vol and sarge on this one. Water is the most important thing first but you also need food if for anything else just to keep your spirits up (besides I love the taste of a rabbit cooked over an open flame). Your body also needs the protiens from meat to repair the damage you are doing to your muscles which is alot if in a survival situation, that is why the men on the Lewis and Clark expedtition ate about 4 pounds of meat a day (I read this in a book so it must be true:D )

Most importantly it's also about morale. Anyone who has ever served in the military can attest to how good it makes you feel to be able to finally sit down to a good hot meal. Which supports the old addage that the most important thing in a survival situation is to maintain a positive attitude and that is hard to do when your stomach is empty, hurting and begging for something to eat.

Sarge47
08-22-2007, 10:43 PM
DEET,

First thing first, a little bit of humor...Sit down to a good hot meal ? Maybe in the Army. "A good hot meal" negates being in the military...at least the Marines.

I am extremely suspicious of "old adages"...especially when talking about food and our relationship with it. After all, not too long ago "they" (adages creators) flipped the trusted food pyramid on it's side.

We obviously do not know what the hell we are talking about here. More teenagers have an eating disorder than there are gun owners in this country, and most of our TV programs are somehow linked to food one way or another. While tabloids, magazines and diet or cook books exploit this fascination of ours while we parade around eating pounds of food in one serving, and drink more crap than is humanly possible in 2 liter mugs.

My first post pointed out this compulsion, and it is still viewed as something far fetch.
A positive attitude should not be linked to food. How can i survive in this world if i regard food as the ultimate life source ?
No sun means no food. No water means no food....etc.
Our priorities as humans have been turned upside down through the emulation of fear, power and pleasure.
Some people on this planet work 16 hour days in the fields or mines and all they eat is a bowl of rice with some bamboo shoots in it. How is that for proof that all of our views regarding this grand savior is out of place ?

You talk about "body types"...What on earth is that ?
Reserves ? How can we think that way ?
This approach is only good if we ALREADY are in a survival situation, and we cannot preserve nor transport our kill for example, the lion or big predators still function that way...eating all they can and walking away carrying 50 pounds of meat in their belly, risking being killed themselves for not being able to run anymore!!! That's reserve. But us ? I am not a big cat...

We have to re-think our view on food. The way we consume it, the way we feel about it, the way we talk about it, the way we joke about it. Everything about food was and is denatured.
With the advance of technology, we have now the capabilities of storing pounds of foods at home, the availability of nutrients is so abundant today, and yet we fear lacking it more and more. We are obsessed.
Food defines cultures, it defines religions, food defines your rank, your place in the heard, your status...food defines us.

Is it a good thing you are overweight ?
Of course not !
Biologically speaking it makes your heart work harder, it makes your blood circulation poorer, think about the fat that accumulates around your arteries, and from a survival point of view, i would rather be agile and fast than carry a "little extra fat for later ! "

But that is not the issue i bring "to the table" (here it is again)...the issue is psychological...the issue is what food means to us, and how it affects our state of minds.

So "it" does not depend on your reserve, "it" depends on your state of mind, and how you deal with hunger. I always enjoy watching "survivor" for many psychological reasons, but food is a big one. The "hunter" or "food provider" is almost always viewed as the hero, the mother/father, the savior. Why ?

Some of them, will pass on $1000 000 for a slice of pizza.
This same mentality, in a survival situation, will sell your life for that same slice of pizza.
Is this what thousands of years of humanity comes down to ?
Some say we are the most intelligent specie in the world...yet we are governed by a slice of pizza. We are governed by the fear of lacking something that is not even at the top of the list of must haves biologically.

We do need food to survive.
But we must recognize the mechanisms and processes involved with this need. We have lost along the way the true meaning of food. We have turned food into a jail, imprisoning our minds in walls made of sugar.

Food shouldn't be a mental process, but we made it that way.

VW did it! He psyco-analyzed the Big Mac!:rolleyes:

DEET
08-23-2007, 05:46 AM
DEET,

First thing first, a little bit of humor...Sit down to a good hot meal ? Maybe in the Army. "A good hot meal" negates being in the military...at least the Marines.


.


That's kinda odd VW, there sure were alot of you devil dogs bellying up to the table in the galley on board the ship (notice I said ship which tells you the army pun aint gonna work here):D

By the way, the reason I bring up the topic of food as a state of mind is because most of the population here or in the military has not been conditioned to shut off the sinapses of the nuerosystem that conduces us towards focusing on the things that won't help us in a critical situation. They don't know how to train there mind to ignore things such as pain, fatigue, or hunger. I'm not sure what kind of training you had in marines but food is one of the most important things when it comes to a military campaign.(why do you think the military spent all that money developing MRE's) Yes you are right that you can go for some time without eating but why would you when there is so much to eat in the wilderness?

I've gotta go now I'm hungry;)

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 11:58 AM
1st, remember Napoleon's words: "An Army travels on it's stomach". Or these words from Wimpy: "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!" :D That being said I think we need to boil this down to some important facts: Do you know how diet affects diabetics or those who are Hypo-glycomic? If I go without food for too long my blood sugar drops and I get weak as a kitten! The needs of the individual involved need to be considered as well. I think Nell could probably tell us more about diet and Diabetes form personal experience.:confused:

nell67
08-23-2007, 01:17 PM
Unfortunately so sarge,beings my hubby is diabetic,I on the other hand am Hypo-glycemic,makes for some interesting meal planning.

nell67
08-23-2007, 01:26 PM
I eat every 4 - 6 hours,small meals,or snack on fresh or dried fruit or peanutbutter.

trax
08-23-2007, 03:20 PM
to explain what he's talking about, and I bet people are overlooking them. I did not know that ol Nappie invented the bagel (I did know about the sleep thing) but I think if we consider why the bagel was made the way vol just described, and look at what we do with bagels today, that pretty much explains what he's talking about. Think those French infantrymen were sitting down to toast their bagels and spread cream cheese on them while they were marching through the mud of Poland on their way to Moscow? I don't.

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 05:44 PM
We obviously received a different training.

"shutting off synapses" without chemicals is impossible. There are other technics to first understand what is happening to your body, and then control pain, fatigue or hunger. The SEALs focus a lot on all of that in their training...have you seen what they make humans do during "hell week" ?
My training, and most Marines, will go through a LOT of sleep and food depravation, to get used to it but also to make us realize that we can still function on very little sleep and food...and push through the pain.

Sarge...did you know that napoleon only slept 3/4 hours a night for most of his life ? He also invented the bagel, the hole in the middle was to be able to string together all the bread...and that is pretty much all of what his armies ate on the field...different times.

I have in my family both hypo-glycomics and diabetics (which are the two opposite ends of a same stick.)...and i empathize with you...but those are disorders and make for a small amount of the population. Like Nell said on another thread, you will have to make specific preparations in order to compensate for the way your body functions.

This does not negate our relationship with food.

I am not talking about our need for food (it is a pretty obvious one), i am talking about our relationship with this need yes ?

So that's why Napoleon always had his hand inside his coat, he was stashing a bagel...with Locks and cream cheese I'll bet. Oy Vay! That sounds kosher to me! Also I hear sleep deprivation stunts your growth...or not?:D

nell67
08-23-2007, 05:49 PM
So that's why Napoleon always had his hand inside his coat, he was stashing a bagel...with Locks and cream cheese I'll bet. Oy Vay! That sounds kosher to me! Also I hear sleep deprivation stunts your growth...or not?:D

sleep deprivation stunts your growth huh?? So thats what happened....I heard it was the coffee lol.

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 06:02 PM
...stomach. I have this "love/hate relationship with food; I love to eat and hate to quit. Also can you give me the address and phone number of that person who'll pay all that cabbage for a slice of Pizza? I got a slice of pepperoni sittin' here not doin' anything...:D

Chris
08-23-2007, 07:57 PM
So that's why Napoleon always had his hand inside his coat, he was stashing a bagel...with Locks and cream cheese I'll bet. Oy Vay! That sounds kosher to me! Also I hear sleep deprivation stunts your growth...or not?:D

I'm sure you know this and are just being funny... but Napoleon was crippled and hid his hand from view out of pride.

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 08:33 PM
I'm sure you know this and are just being funny... but Napoleon was crippled and hid his hand from view out of pride.

Just bein' funny, when Nap. met Jos the 1st thing she said to him was, "funny, you don't look jewish." Sorry Chris, can't help myself tonight!:rolleyes:

nell67
08-23-2007, 08:38 PM
Just bein' funny, when Nap. met Jos the 1st thing she said to him was, "funny, you don't look jewish." Sorry Chris, can't help myself tonight!:rolleyes:

AWWW SARGE!!!:eek:

FVR
08-23-2007, 09:12 PM
DEET,

First thing first, a little bit of humor...Sit down to a good hot meal ? Maybe in the Army. "A good hot meal" negates being in the military...at least the Marines.


I remember sitting down to a hot meal in the field, IN THE NAVY CHOW HALL, or IN THE ARMY CHOW HALL.

Sorry to say, while in the field on lrrps, I was happy with a cup of hot coffee and the peanut butter and crackers. I liked the eggs and would trade off my pound cake for it. Nobody liked the eggs, so they had a green tint to them, a little tabasco and they were good to go.

The crackers and peanut butter were awsome for patrols as they kind of bound ya up. You could go days without having to do a sit down job.

The ham was okay, I guess. When you're hungry you just about eat anything. We would scrounge up wild onions, someone always had some top roman noodles, throw it in the steel pot and simmer. Make sure your steel pot was not painted inside.

The did have canned stew aka dog food.

If we were doing jeep patrols, you just stuck the canned food on the side of the little 4 banger and you had an oven. JUST DON'T FORGET THE FOOD IS THERE or you would have one big mess.

Sarge47
08-23-2007, 09:17 PM
I remember sitting down to a hot meal in the field, IN THE NAVY CHOW HALL, or IN THE ARMY CHOW HALL.

Sorry to say, while in the field on lrrps, I was happy with a cup of hot coffee and the peanut butter and crackers. I liked the eggs and would trade off my pound cake for it. Nobody liked the eggs, so they had a green tint to them, a little tabasco and they were good to go.

The crackers and peanut butter were awsome for patrols as they kind of bound ya up. You could go days without having to do a sit down job.

The ham was okay, I guess. When you're hungry you just about eat anything. We would scrounge up wild onions, someone always had some top roman noodles, throw it in the steel pot and simmer. Make sure your steel pot was not painted inside.

The did have canned stew aka dog food.

If we were doing jeep patrols, you just stuck the canned food on the side of the little 4 banger and you had an oven. JUST DON'T FORGET THE FOOD IS THERE or you would have one big mess.

What? No Bagels?:rolleyes:

FVR
08-23-2007, 09:21 PM
My fav. was SOS and runny eggs, this was supplied to us by the good ol USMC.

Now the Army chow hall in Panama, man, I was on the advanced party and for a week ate like a king. They actually asked you what you wanted and made omlettes to order. The coffee, in the bottom of the cups didn't even have old cig butts. All good things come to an end, they left and I was sent into the jungle.

Sarge47
08-24-2007, 06:41 AM
Did you know you can make a cutting tool out of the filter of a cigaret butt ?
Old french trick when taken prisoner to cut your veins...and end the endless jokes.
One last smoke.


So...let's keep it real.(that makes me laugh)
I know a lot about the pathological state we call hypoglycemia. In fact i know a lot about food.
I actually did some research in pathophysiology and if your plasma glucose levels are below 70 mg/dl...congratulation, you can call yourself hypoglycemic.
Although not my main focus, 10 to 20 grams of carbohydrate will raise your blood glucose to normal levels within minutes.
That's about 4 crackers...or 3 ounces of orange juice.

A "normal" adult will be able to maintain a blood glucose level above 50 mg for 72 hours.
If you can fast through the night, i wouldn't call you hypoglycemic, but that's just me.

If you get "shaky" it means you are having adrenergic manifestations of hypoglycemia...which are governed by hormones such as adrenaline and glucagon.
But to be sure i would have to look into it more because often people think they are hypoglycemic when in fact they have high anxiety levels which "give out" similar manifestations.

If you do monitor your blood levels, and you tell me that you drop bellow 50 to 70 mg, then i believe you...and i would recommend you find the cause of it and the proper etiology...for it could be as simple as replacing the appropriate hormones for example.

If you do not in fact go bellow 70, but still experience manifestations...then i would look into anxiety disorders.

I guess all that's well & good, but I was talking about "Survival" in relation to physical problems someone might have that might prevent them from doing without food. You know, keeping it real!:eek:

HOP
08-24-2007, 07:32 AM
It is always about food. Many cases of hypothermia are from not enough of the right fuel going in the system. People That survive on a bowl of rice a day are not usualy up to extreme hard work especialy in a cold harsh enviorment.Anyone going 3 weks without fod is not going to go away with out some health isues damage to their organs. If you wait to long to think about food you may have waited to long.

nell67
08-24-2007, 02:53 PM
I have actually tested my blood sugar when I have had "episodes" and my glucose level was around 50-60 each time I have taken it.Easier to control my problem than hubbies and I always carry a few packets of table sugar or hard candy in my pocket,but it has been 4 years since my last episode,I learned how to control it with eating more often,but smaller meals eating fruits and such,I do avoid eating sugar as much as possible,because the sugar high almost always leads to a sugar low.

I just try to keep it even.

Sarge47
08-24-2007, 05:04 PM
And what do you think i am talking about ?

VW, are you posting to? If me I thought you were talking about a "relationship" as opposed to specific needs.:confused: :confused:

Sarge47
08-24-2007, 05:07 PM
Here's something that can help, download it if you want!

http://vietnamresearch.com/manuals/crats/mre.html

Enjoy!:cool:

Tony uk
08-24-2007, 05:13 PM
Here's something that can help, download it if you want!

http://vietnamresearch.com/manuals/crats/mre.html

Enjoy!:cool:
Very Nice, Thanks Sarge :D

Sarge47
08-25-2007, 10:56 PM
Sarge,

Oh i see where you are at...well maybe, and this is a wild guess, maybe what i post is interesting to someone other than you yes ?

And talk about not answering questions...you haven't answered mine because you are too busy "keeping it real".
So yes, all of that's well and good, but you talking about a subject is not the end all of that subject...you dig ?

Your behavior is getting a little old my friend.



Nell,

Glad you can manage this problem and keep it under control. i think having smaller meals more often is a good thing in general.

VW I'm almost embarrassed to tell you that you've lost me. Did I write something that offended you? If so, I'm sorry. Such was not my intention, I assure you. What questions are you referring to?:confused: Also, I've never been diagnosed Hypo-G., however I do experience Weakness, & shakiness if I go without food more than 12 hours. My point on "keeping it real" was simply that the reality is that peoples physical needs vary depending on age, health problems, etc., so going without food for a great length of time might not be the wisest course.

Sarge47
08-26-2007, 08:33 AM
Ah...so you do remember the question.

Not that i am offended, but you have a somewhat passive aggressive way of putting down posts and therefore people, that makes it hard to actually follow through with the discussion at hand.

If doing so is not your intention, maybe it is something you are not aware of. Anyway..."Not be the wisest course" is a given in a normal situation...but, we are talking about survival situations, and most of the time food will be scarce...which brings us back to the psychology, physiology, biology and therefore relationship we have with food.

In any relationship, there will be specific needs...and we were addressing some of them with the examples of diabetes or hypoglycemia.

Sorry, my bad, and you are right about the specific needs of certain people and "lack of food being the problem. Passive/aggressive way of putting down P & P? I'm a "closet comedian" and I started driving the transit bus out at the University this week. Part of what I do to keep the students mind off losing their "personal space" when we load up to transport them between classes is to get on the intercom and get them laughing. I'm pretty good at it and don't know when to shut it off, I'm sorry VW if it bugged you, just messin' with you.

Sarge47
08-26-2007, 02:28 PM
Ah ok...i understand better now where you come from.

I know this subject can be heavy and complex at times since it is always somewhat personal...and i appreciate your openness .

To go back to the subject, I think it is important to say again that it takes a lot of water for the body to actually digest foods...i think it is at least 16 ounces.
If one does not have that minimum of 16 ounces of water, one should not eat at all...which tells me something about our bodies and the order of importance of food and water.

Having said that i think we can all agree that it also depends on our physical needs. Is the survivor staying put, or must he walk over hard terrain every day in order to find rescue, and we go back to energy conservation which we talked about on another thread.

I think most people would be amazed at how the body is able to function without food...even more so when faced with life or death situations.

...meaning me, of course. So, VW, what about age? I'm older than a lot of the others here in the group, (Maybe everybody else here in the group:rolleyes: ) I know I'm more likely to want lay down in the afternoon to take a nap, for example, where the younger people wouldn't nessasarily want too? I guess I'm looking at the human phisiological make-up here as varied. Do you feel that certain human circumstances would dictate certain matters also?:confused:

DEET
08-26-2007, 11:33 PM
First I want to thank you both for a great discussion. I have never spent so much time thinking about the relationship of food and psyche. In this thinking I have come up with a few questions for each of you respectively and I am wondering if you could clear a few things up for me.

First question is for vol; In your posts I'm getting the feeling that hunger is a state of the human psyche which has been planted by feelings of withdrawal from the maternal being of our person. This being the case how do you explain the fact nature is predominantly control by hunger? Caribou go on the largest migration known to nature by a land animal where in millions of caribou cover thousands of miles in the search for food. Hundreds of bears which are a solitary animal gather in numbers at the same time every year to feed on salmon. Or the fact that the social structures of some of the most intelligent animals in nature are structured around the search, procurement and rationing of said food. I'm not trying to flame I'm actually trying to understand you better.

Second question is for sarge; Do you feel that the quest for food should be the first thing that a person in a survival situation should undertake? If so I think you may want to look into the bodies need for water, also if you are in a desert situation you should keep your eating to a bare minimum to conserve water lost in digestion. If I'm getting the wrong impression from you on your posts my apologies but could you please clarify for me?

Sarge47
08-26-2007, 11:55 PM
First I want to thank you both for a great discussion. I have never spent so much time thinking about the relationship of food and psyche. In this thinking I have come up with a few questions for each of you respectively and I am wondering if you could clear a few things up for me.

First question is for vol; In your posts I'm getting the feeling that hunger is a state of the human psyche which has been planted by feelings of withdrawal from the maternal being of our person. This being the case how do you explain the fact nature is predominantly control by hunger? Caribou go on the largest migration known to nature by a land animal where in millions of caribou cover thousands of miles in the search for food. Hundreds of bears which are a solitary animal gather in numbers at the same time every year to feed on salmon. Or the fact that the social structures of some of the most intelligent animals in nature are structured around the search, procurement and rationing of said food. I'm not trying to flame I'm actually trying to understand you better.

Second question is for sarge; Do you feel that the quest for food should be the first thing that a person in a survival situation should undertake? If so I think you may want to look into the bodies need for water, also if you are in a desert situation you should keep your eating to a bare minimum to conserve water lost in digestion. If I'm getting the wrong impression from you on your posts my apologies but could you please clarify for me?

Sorry for the confusion, I believe in being as prepared as you possibly can. I subscribe to the "Backpacker's code" which mandates a "10 essentials" kit to be carried into the wilds at all times. This kit contains extra food (as well as extra water, BTW) that you would already have on your person for emergency situations. This would keep one's energy level up until they take whatever steps needed 1st. The geography of the area is going to dictate what that is. Also the time of day. Is it getting dark or is it earlier? Are you in need of a shelter, or are you with your vehicle? Fire may be your 1st step, unless you're on a snow-covered mountain above tree-line. I do believe that food is important, just more so to some individuals than others. IMO, if you take some with you going in you're going to be better off than if you didn't. Also, What affect do you think "lack of food will have on someone with "type II diabetes" no matter where they are? The "quest for food" will, IMO, be a priority established by the needs of the individual. That being said, I believe that going without food for 3 weeks is going to be hard on anyone no matter who they are. There are also some foods that have liquid with them. For example a rabbit also has blood that can help quench thirst. If this doesn't help clear things up let me know, I'm famous for my long-winded posts, just ask anybody.:D :D

owl_girl
08-27-2007, 02:37 AM
Caribous or bears or any other animal for that matter, go through a different process of major importance. They are able as a new born to find the mother's breast on their own...while a human new born is completely dependent on his mother to bring him to the breast and feed. This fact on it's own has tremendous repercussions on our development.

Volwest if you put a new born on the mothers stomach most of them will crawl to the breast on their own to feed. A lot of breastfeeding mothers practice this.

nell67
08-27-2007, 06:49 AM
owl_ girl,I never knew that,and I breastfed my children,Idid notice that they "root" that is when picked up an held close,they instictively turned their head with their mouth open in preperation to feed .

Sarge47
08-27-2007, 06:50 AM
What I meant was, VW, if doesn't the circumstances dictate what course of action is to be taken: i.e.: age, health, etc.?:confused:

owl_girl
08-27-2007, 12:23 PM
No...a new born humanoid cannot even carry the weight of their heads. If someone told you this, or if you read it somewhere, they were probably talking about older infants that have the strength of a gorilla, or they lied.
All a new born can do, is lay there, move their arms and legs in totally uncontrolled motions, because the brain is not developed yet to coordinate movements, let along crawl.

They will not only move to the breast but attach themselves. Its called delivery self attachment. In babies that are immediately placed on the mothers stomach will do this within 50 minutes. However if their taken away to be weighed and stuff or if there was medication involved the infant will often have problems suckling. Most births in America are interfered with so that’s probably why you never heard this. My moms a lactation consultant and her sister has given birth to 11 kids most of them where unassisted at there house. I think they know what they’re talking about, also I’ve seen videos of it, here’s a good one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvWg4TKKWuw

you can buy it here. Look up DR. Lennart Righard
http://www.amazon.com/Delivery-Self-Attachment-Kittie-Frantz/dp/1885748132

trax
08-27-2007, 01:02 PM
That was an informative video owl_girl and of interest to me for a reason completely separate from the things we usually discuss here. One of the projects I'm heading up here at work is diabetes prevention and there is powerful evidence that prevention can begin before birth based on the mother's diet, and that breast-feeding only helps increase the chances of prevention. That evidence comes as no surprise, what surprised me was when a local nurse told me that the hospital here discourages breast feeding. I'm hiring a lactation consultant for a one day workshop for expectant mothers because of that. The difference between the non-interfered and interfered with babies in the footage was remarkable. It would have been better if they'd put the total numbers for each group and how well the non-interfered, non-medicated babies fared as a total. I'm sure all of that is in the published report, though.

owl_girl
08-27-2007, 01:11 PM
I’m glad you enjoyed it trax :D I hope it helps. That makes me mad when hospitals discourages breast feeding. Good luck un your research.

owl_girl
08-27-2007, 02:44 PM
volwest when I said they crawl I didn’t mean like an older baby, I meant they scoot up like a new born puppy or kitten but I don’t really know what to call that motion. Another survival Instinct infants have is the swimming reflex which Disappears after 6 to 7 months but a baby just a couple days old will swim. Although human babies aren’t as strong as caribou babies I think their a lot stronger then you think they are.

trax
08-27-2007, 03:55 PM
I’m glad you enjoyed it trax :D I hope it helps. That makes me mad when hospitals discourages breast feeding. Good luck un your research.

The program's up and running so I'm past research, but thanks. I found out that a lot of hospitals will discourage breast feeding because it's less work for the staff to just keep the babies in a nursery and pop them a bottle of formula than to take them to their mother and let her feed them. Personally, I think it's pathetic.

owl_girl
08-27-2007, 04:16 PM
The program's up and running so I'm past research, but thanks. I found out that a lot of hospitals will discourage breast feeding because it's less work for the staff to just keep the babies in a nursery and pop them a bottle of formula than to take them to their mother and let her feed them. Personally, I think it's pathetic.
I think its deeper then that, if the hospital gets the baby hooked on formula then the mother is more likely to keep the baby on formula and the formula companies know this and pay the hospitals to encourage formula and that’s why a lot of hospitals give away free formula to start with because the companies know you’ll then continue to buy their product. So the hospitals and formula companies are benefiting from discouraging breastfeeding. But I guess that’s another subject.

trax
08-27-2007, 04:55 PM
You may be on to something there. There's a reason why 4 out of 5 hospitals use a specific over the counter pain med and why 4 out of 5 dentists recommend whatever...they get it cheap or they get a kickback. But you're right, that's a different subject.

owl_girl
08-27-2007, 10:51 PM
Volwest I know the baby isn’t able to crawl up onto the mothers stomach on its own obviously. I never said a baby doesn’t need any help to get to the breast, I just said if you put a newborn on the mothers stomach most of them will crawl to the breast on their own to feed, to which you said no they don’t, which It looks to me like they do. You asked why this was so defendable…to that I say it was a difference in opinion, and when I disagree with someone or come to a different conclusion I tell them. You haven’t asked why I defend any of my other opinions dos it seem odd that I defended that one?
Its probably true that if you put the baby upside down it won’t find it but I watched a video where the breast was below the babies head and to the side and the baby turned himself around to get to it. I can post that video if you or anyone would like to see it? I’ve seen clearer videos of the breast crawl then the one I posted, I agree the camera angles on that one weren’t the best. But I’ll do more research on the subject.

Sarge47
08-27-2007, 11:01 PM
I started a thread about the importance of food and we somehow got into the area of breast feeding, which triggered an interesting thought; what if you have a mother & baby in your survival situation & the baby breast-feeds? What if the mother is dead? Horrible thought, I know, but it could happen. Now you have an infant on your hands that needs either formula, or mother's milk. Any ideas:confused:

owl_girl
08-27-2007, 11:06 PM
I started a thread about the importance of food and we somehow got into the area of breast feeding, which triggered an interesting thought; what if you have a mother & baby in your survival situation & the baby breast-feeds? What if the mother is dead? Horrible thought, I know, but it could happen. Now you have an infant on your hands that needs either formula, or mother's milk. Any ideas:confused:
Is there a goat around?

Sarge47
08-27-2007, 11:19 PM
Is there a goat around?

All's we got is a snoring, farting moose calf named Norman.:D Any other ideas?:D

trax
08-28-2007, 10:55 AM
Sarge...if we're in a survival situation, with all apologies to my very large and tough friend only one province over, we have a very large cache of moose steak named Norman

trax
08-28-2007, 10:56 AM
If you have any milk, dip a corner of cloth into it, baby will suck the milk out of the cloth, repeat as necessary.

Sarge47
08-28-2007, 11:53 AM
Owl_girl...don't get me wrong, i do enjoy your participation on this thread because i find all of this much more appropriate to survival discussions than talking about camo bdu's.

It is not however a matter of opinions...it is a matter of facts, logic, instincts, processes, programs, biology, reason, and the birth of billions of babies compared to in this case 72.

Sarge,

Babies can slow down their metabolism and actually put themselves in a state of near coma in order to conserve energy. Not so long time ago, a couple got lost in the mountains with an infant. The man went to look for help at some point, and the woman staid in a little cave...the baby survived by the mother drawling in the mouth of the baby from time to time for she was not able to breast feed anymore.

Babies can survive days without any nourishment which should give the survival party time to figure something out.

Thanks for the reminder, VW, I Saw that on "I Shouldn't Be Alive: Science of Survival", Les Stroud was the guest expert on that one!:cool:

DEET
08-30-2007, 02:09 AM
Thanks to both Sarge and VW for your replies. Sorry it took so long to reply but I was trying to decypher what vol said;)