Survival Scenario

[pgvoutdoors]

Situation:
You are being tested on your ability to utilize a minimum of supplies to survive in the wild for two weeks. You can choose from the following list any items you like but there's limitations on how much you can choose. Each item has been given a point value and you are limited to a total of (40) points. Additional limitations are:
1. only one item with a value of (10) points
2. only one item with a value of (8) points

Choose your items based on the following information:
1. the clothing you are wearing is; hiking boots, wool socks, jeans, cotton underwear, cotton t-shirt, NO belt.
2. Location: Colorado
3. Terrain: Mountainous, 8000 ft
4. Water: streams
5. Season: November

Answer the following questions:
1. Why you chose the items you did?
2. How would you signal for help?
3. How would you maintain your food and water supply?
4. How would you protect yourself from the elements?

(Value)
(10) High carbon knife, 6" blade
(8) Swiss Army Knife, ten tools
(7) Flashlight w/ batteries
(7) Shovel, military folding type
(7) Hatchet
(10) Axe
(10) .22 Rifle w/ (10) rounds
(6) Wire Saw
(8) Bow Saw
(7) SAS Survival Book
(7) MRE
(8) 10x10 Tarp
(8) Poncho
(8) Wool Blanket
(10) Sleeping bag, 20 degree
(10) Tent, 2-person dome
(10) Water Filter
(7) Water Bladder, 4 qt.
(4) Canteen, 1 qt.
(6) Water purifying Tablets, (20) tablets
(8) A piece of Flint, 4 oz.
(5) (5) Strike Anywhere Matches
(10) Bic Lighter
(5) (2) pieces of Fat Wood, 8x1/2"
(4) Plumbers Candle
(3) Bicycle Inner tube
(4) Razor Blade
(4) 100 ft. of Fishing Line, 10 lb. test
(6) 30 ft. of snare wire
(3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size
(6) 120 ft. Climbing Rope
(6) Compass
(4) Signal Mirror
(5) Whistle
(5) Bow String
(7) Fishing Rod w/ line
(5) (2) Fishing Hooks
(7) (2) Trout Flies
(5) Weighted Jig
(7) 25 ft. of 550 Cord
(6) 3 qt. Pot
(3) metal Fork & Spoon
(5) Dental Floss, 70 ft.
(5) Antibiotic Cream
(3) (6) Band-Aids
(3) Roll of Gauze, 3x30"
(4) Aluminum Hub Cap
(3) (4) Safety Pins
(4) Trash Bag, Large
(3) Pen & Notebook

Good Luck!:)

[Rick]

Can you tell us what season this is?

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

items i choose :10) High carbon knife, 6" blade,(8) A piece of Flint, 4 oz.(4) Trash Bag, Large,3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size,(7) 25 ft. of 550 Cord,(6) 30 ft. of snare wire
I chose the knife as I can make traps , a spear , a fire with the flint to keep warm and signal the trash bag is a expidient shelter of sorts coffe can for cooking and purifying water 550 cord for traps snares and shelter snare wire for obviously traps snares and shelter amungst other things . theres streams meaning i dont need fishing gear as a fish trap will do my fishing for me 24/7 hope i dont gain weight for the two weeks lol

[Sam]

Can you tell us what season this is?

I hope we get pants of some kind.;)

[pgvoutdoors]

Fall, November. Thanks I updated the post.
Can you tell us what season this is?

[pgvoutdoors]

You are wearing jeans for those who need them:)

I hope we get pants of some kind.;)

[crashdive123]

Based on location and time of year, here's my 39 points worth. I based my decisions on the rule of 3's to prioritize what I'd list.

10 - Sleeping bag
8 - Flint
7 - 25 ft 550 cord
7 - hatchet
3 - coffe can
4 - trash bag

Sleeping bag to keep warm (can wear it during day and crawl in it at night). With flint and hatchet can sart fire. Hatchet to replace knife for cutting, slicing, chopping, cleaning game or fish. 550 cor gives me 200 feet of line for fishing, building traps, etc. Coffee can for collecting boiling water. Trash bag to water proof shelter I build or expedient poncho if needed. I'd signal with fire/smoke. Food, although nice is a bit lower on the priority list - snaring small game, fish traps in flowing water.

With your scenario - I'm getting out in 2 weeks, so I'm staying put. Improving my shelter daily, keeping water supply up, gathering food. Heck, if the weather holds, I may ask them to give me another week.:D

[Rick]

I know Colorado consists of grass meadows and coniferous forest at 8000 feet. November has the ability to be pretty cold and probably some snow. Average temps is 40F and snowfall is 4.4 inches. Highs could be 80F and lows could be 5F. So.....

(8) Swiss Army Knife - I considered the ax but it's heavier requiring more energy to carry and use so I'll go with a cutting tool that is lighter and this conserves my numbers.
(8) Wool blanket - I'll use it as a modified capote to stay warm and it will help with my cold, maybe even wet, cotton clothes.
(8) A piece of Flint, 4 oz. - It should be dry enough to make fires with the knife and flint.
(3) Coffee can, metal 2 lb size. - I can boil water and cook in the can.
(4) Signal mirror - I want something for immediate signaling. If a plane flies over I won't have time to build a fire. I need to signal NOW.
(5) Dental floss - Pretty versatile stuff. I would have preferred the 550 cord but I'm conserving numbers.
(4) Canteen. Relatively compact and simple. Cap prevents loss of water even if you drop it.

[Merriwether]

You are being tested on your ability to utilize a minimum of supplies to survive in the wild for two weeks. 3. Terrain: Mountainous, 8000 ft
4. Water: streams
5. Season: November


Is this above the treeline? I'm a flatlander, so I have no idea. I'm going to assume that it's right at the treeline so I have some access to wood. From the scenario description I have to last two weeks, I'm not trying to actively get rescued. If that's the case I'll make a base camp with the following stuff.

1. High Carbon Knife. Useful for cutting, carving and starting a fire when struck against flint, chert, petrified wood or other really, really hard rocks (speaking from experience).

2. Wool blanket. Warm even when wet. This will be my coat/cape/sleeping bag/shelter. It's insulating aspects will be improved with some sort of debris shelter, grass insulation or other naturally occuring shelter.

3. 550 cord. I hate making cordage in the woods. This will be used for lashing, making a gill net, or inner stands used as fishing line (with gorge-hook).

4. 3 qt pot. Since it's a pot I'm going to assume it has some sort of bail to hang it over the fire. It will be used to boil drinking water and cook any fish/game I catch.

5. Snare wire. This will be one of my five main ways of catching meat. I'll also make some fish traps (weir-style and traps, maybe the gill net if I can spare the cordage). The third way will be deadfall traps, the fourth will be bird traps, the fifth will be fishing (paracord strands for fishing line). If I'm not moving camp every few days trapping is definately the way to go.

6. Coffee can. This can be used to suppliment my boiled water, cook in, use as an oven, and also to make char cloth for fire starting.

I've left off any of the obvious fire starting devices as I'm confident I can start a fire with the knife and a rock plucked from one of the streams.

The main problem I forsee is collecting enough wood. In those temperatures I'll go through a lot of wood and will clean out the area around me fairly quickly. I'm not sure if it'd be easier to move camp to fresh wood or drag the wood to camp.

-Merriwether

[pgvoutdoors]

Nice job of researching the typical terrain. One problem though, you can only have one item valued at (10) points and one item valued at (8) points. You do not need to choose one of each but no more than one of each.
Back to the front of the class and choose again.:)


I know Colorado consists of grass meadows and coniferous forest at 8000 feet. November has the ability to be pretty cold and probably some snow. Average temps is 40F and snowfall is 4.4 inches. Highs could be 80F and lows could be 5F. So.....

(8) Swiss Army Knife - I considered the ax but it's heavier requiring more energy to carry and use so I'll go with a cutting tool that is lighter and this conserves my numbers.
(8) Wool blanket - I'll use it as a modified capote to stay warm and it will help with my cold, maybe even wet, cotton clothes.
(8) A piece of Flint, 4 oz. - It should be dry enough to make fires with the knife and flint.
(3) Coffee can, metal 2 lb size. - I can boil water and cook in the can.
(4) Signal mirror - I want something for immediate signaling. If a plane flies over I won't have time to build a fire. I need to signal NOW.
(5) Dental floss - Pretty versatile stuff. I would have preferred the 550 cord but I'm conserving numbers.
(4) Canteen. Relatively compact and simple. Cap prevents loss of water even if you drop it.

[trax]

10-the 6" knife, 8-wool blanket, 4-100 ft of fishing line, 3-coffee can, 5-fish hooks, 4-trash bag, 5-matches=39 points

With the knife, I can make a pretty windproof shelter, the blanket will keep me warm enough when I roll up into it. ( I know FVR and WE are shaking their heads but I really like steel knives) If I have to I can use the trash bag either as a shelter cover or rain jacket, I can use the fishing line for fishing, snaring, tieing down the base poles of my shelter, the coffee can will work both for heating up my water for purification and for making my lovely rabbit stew and for a signaling device if I scrub the bottom and for flipping over and keepin a few coals burning inside the shelter over night (want 4 matches back?) I could fashion my own fishhooks if I had to, but what the hey? I can tie pebbles to the hooks with fishing line, set the snares and the hooks, gather as much firewood as I can find, get a nice big stack of pine and spruce bark for future vitamin intake, and crash out in my little lodge and stay home as much as possible. At 8000 feet I should be able to hear aircraft or searchers approaching, so I'm going to keep a pile of firewood nearby for building the fire up huge. I'm also gonna peel that t-shirt off and make it into a hat, over 50% of heat loss is through the head and if it gets as hot as Rick said it would during the day, I want to protect myself from that too. How'd I do teach? Will I live?

[Merriwether]

Thinking about it more, are there any fish in streams that high up? Minnows and other small fish would be fine, I'd just change the way I'm going after them. How about frogs? Snails?

-Merriwether

[pgvoutdoors]

Thinking about it more, are there any fish in streams that high up? Minnows and other small fish would be fine, I'd just change the way I'm going after them. How about frogs? Snails?

-Merriwether
Yes, minnows and small trout.

[Rick]

Picky, picky, picky!

(10) High carbon knife, 6" blade
(8) Wool Blanket
(4) Signal Mirror
(5) Whistle
(4) Canteen, 1 qt.
(3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size
(6) 30 ft. of snare wire

Okay, I'll try this again. I'll go with the larger knife because I won't do without the wool blanket. Again, I'll make a modified capote/sleeping cover out of it. The rest are pretty self explanatory. For fire, I'll just have to go with a fire bow and pretend I'm really good at it (big stretch!). For food, I'll make a spear for the fish and set snare's. For all I know, help is coming 1) if by land, 2) if by air so I decided to go with the mirror and the whistle. The objective is to be found so I want anything that will help me do that. I think that's 40 points and I didn't cheat this time.:o

[pgvoutdoors]

Picky, picky, picky!

(10) High carbon knife, 6" blade
(8) Wool Blanket
(4) Signal Mirror
(5) Whistle
(4) Canteen, 1 qt.
(3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size
(6) 30 ft. of snare wire

Okay, I'll try this again. I'll go with the larger knife because I won't do without the wool blanket. Again, I'll make a modified capote/sleeping cover out of it. The rest are pretty self explanatory. For fire, I'll just have to go with a fire bow and pretend I'm really good at it (big stretch!). For food, I'll make a spear for the fish and set snare's. For all I know, help is coming 1) if by land, 2) if by air so I decided to go with the mirror and the whistle. The objective is to be found so I want anything that will help me do that. I think that's 40 points and I didn't cheat this time.:o

NICE!!! OK, you can sit in the back of the class now.:)

[trax]

I think you're better off hooking fish (set lines, go relax, minimum energy expended) than spearing them (splashing cold water all over yourself, catching ...a cold) and you can use the bottom of that coffee can for a signaling mirror. You can snare rabbits & squirrels or grouse & ptarmigan (not sure exactly what manner of fowl are there but there'll be one kind or another from that family) with fishing line, waterfowl too, for that matter.
You also said "for all I know help is coming" My thinking is, pgv said two weeks, so for all I know, it isn't.

Just my thinking, not trying to criticize or anything.

[Rick]

Can't use the bottom of a sooty can. And if I don't have a mirror and whistle I'll be watching that plane or chopper fly on by as I saw my little fire bow into sawdust trying to get a fire rolling. I'd take the fishing line but I ran out of points. So I'll just go with a spear and my trusty fish traps. Speaking of expending energy, if you happen to hike by and see someone passed out on the ground with a spindle in one hand and a fire bow in the other with no fire burning, that would be me.

[trax]

OK, but if I do, I'm gonna pat you down to see what goodies you got in your pockets that I can put to use, (hopefully find your secret Mars bar stash that you didn't tell pgv about) and that soot comes off easy so pllplpfffplp :p

[klkak]

First off, let me say that this is a thread that challenges you to do some thinking. I like it. I am looking at this as only a training scenario. If it were real and I was uninjured I would walk out.

Now trying to keep to the spirit of the scenario I picked the following items for a total of 35 points.

1. Wool Blanket (8pts): I would make a serape out of it for those chilly November days and use it as a blanket for sleeping.

2. Hatchet (7pts): Chopping, cutting, pounding. etc. I carry and use a hatchet almost every day so getting wood for a fire and building a shelter. The hatchet is my choice. If I needed a fine blade for skinning fish or game, I'm not above using stone flakes for this purpose.

3. 550 cord (7pts): First I would gut it out. Then use it for holding together a shelter. Making traps and bird snares as well as fishing line.

3. Snare wire (6pts): I would use small pieces tied to a length of stripped down 550 cord as a fish gouge. And of course for making snares.

4. Trash bag (4pts): I would use this as a rain poncho/wind breaker worn with the serape.

5. Coffee Can (3pts): I would use this for cooking and purifying water.

Questions:
1. I choose the above items because I am familiar with their use.

2. I would use fire at night and smoke during the day as my primary means of signaling for help. I am very confident that I could get a fire going with material found locally.

3. I would place my camp near a stream with fish in it. I would set trot lines for the fish and would set snares and traps for rodents and birds for food. I would use the coffee can to boil water for drinking and cooking the food.

4. I would build and continue to improve the best shelter I could make. I would also continue to build up my firewood supply. Using fire for warmth as well as the wool blanket and trash bag.

[klkak]

Rick and Trax you are disrupting the class!

[pgvoutdoors]

Good response Klkak! This is a training scenario, it first requires you to make fundamental decisions concerning your own skills and what you would like to supplement those skills. Second, you would be staying out for the full two weeks but must demonstrate how you would signal for help. Sometimes staying put is the best way to be found. I've used various forms of this exercise both in a classroom environment as well as in the field. It works quite nicely.

[pgvoutdoors]

Rick and Trax you are disrupting the class!

Now now try this Trax and Rick, choose from the lists you created, a final list you both agree on. Same rules apply but you can only choose from your two lists.

[trax]

Now now try this Trax and Rick, choose from the lists you created, a final list you both agree on. Same rules apply but you can only choose from your two lists.

I don't want to play with Rick.....Hey aren't our lists like really really close? OK, it's easy, ditch your list and go with mine Rick.

[Rick]

I wanna use mine! (Check out my cool bibs!)

http://www.parentscanada.com/uploads/juandice.jpg

[Rick]

If you give up the matches, I'll give up the whistle and come over to the dark side.

10-the 6" knife, 8-wool blanket, 4-100 ft of fishing line, 3-coffee can, 5-fish hooks, 4-trash bag, 4 - signal mirror =38 points

What say you?

[Merriwether]

Wait a minute, we want to be rescued?! I was just getting comfortable...

I guess three large triangles made of evergreen branches in the clearing by my camp. If need be I can also bang the pot and coffee can together for noise.

If they find me within a week I'll promise the searcher cash or a share of the TV rights to "find" me again a week later...:D

-Merriwether

[chiggersngrits]

i'll give it the ol' numpty try.
10 axe cut fire wood
8 wool blanket keep warm
6 snare wire catch game,make hooks, general binding
5 matches i have no confidence in my ability to start one with the other items listed.
fishing line catch fish , binding
4 razor blade small cutting task, cleaning fish or game
3 coffee can boil, carry water, cook
i would make the biggest fire i could make and try to keep it continuously burning, this would not only provide warmth, cook food,and boil water it would be my main signaling device.

[Merriwether]

i would make the biggest fire i could make and try to keep it continuously burning,

That'll take a heck of a lot of firewood, which means you'll be expending a lot of energy not to mention having to wake up and feed the fire several times a night.

Not to pick on you in particular, but it seems a lot of people have no idea how quickly wood burns and how quickly you can use up all the dry wood in an area. The first time my friend Clark went camping with me he was amazed at the size of the firewood pile I collected. He thought it'd last for days, but it barely got us to midnight and the fire wasn't very big.

-Merriwether

[trax]

If you give up the matches, I'll give up the whistle and come over to the dark side.

10-the 6" knife, 8-wool blanket, 4-100 ft of fishing line, 3-coffee can, 5-fish hooks, 4-trash bag, 4 - signal mirror =38 points

What say you?

Deal, but after what you wrote, leave the firemaking to me :D and....don't snore.

[Gray Wolf]

I'll give it a go..

(7) Hatchet - use for chopping fire wood, making shelter, traps, spear, fire with found flint rocks and napping (to make hooks, clean game or fish)
(8) Wool Blanket - sleep in (on a bed of pine branches, so off cold ground, and for comfort) - use during the day if needed.
(3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size - boil water, cook.
(7) 25 ft. of 550 Cord - make snares, fishing line
(4) Trash Bag, Large - use as pancho if needed
Shelter next to stream - improve daily.
Use hatchet and can to dig fire pit.
Build a wall out of rocks to reflect the heat from the fire.
Use smoke and blanket (have green pine branches to make smoke ready, along with extra wood) for signaling.

pgv,
There is nothing I can get rid of, out of this list.

[trax]

that's a good list GW, I'll nip over with some fire embers to get you going after I tuck in Rick. (dont' tell pgv he'll say I'm cheating)

[Gray Wolf]

I already started the fire with the hatchet and flint rocks, but thx.

Leave some time to have a cup of joe and some fresh trout...

[Gray Wolf]

Uh, I meant Pine tea, uh, honest pvg, I didn't bring any coffee... trax brought it!!!

[trax]

Now it's like that thread what weed? weed? what weed? coffee? what coffee? Have some trout pgv:D!

[Rick]

Chocolate? We ain't got no chocolate!

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/01/74/22897401.jpg

[BraggSurvivor]

Chocolate? We ain't got no chocolate!

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/01/74/22897401.jpg


That ain't chocolate Rick. :eek:

[Rick]

Trax!! What did you give me? He's despicable.

[chiggersngrits]

That'll take a heck of a lot of firewood, which means you'll be expending a lot of energy not to mention having to wake up and feed the fire several times a night.



-Merriwether

thats why i went for the axe instead of the hatchet. i would make camp near the stream and with the coffee can water should be no problem. if i could find a downed tree i would make my fire against it using it as a fuel source. probably make some sort of debris hut for shelter. also went with the razor blade for fine cutting . i figure within a day or so i would be able to make medium sized cutting tool from stone. thanks for the input merriwether. i think the coffee can is the best value points wise. nice thread pgv welcome back.

[trax]

Trax!! What did you give me? He's despicable.

walking away whistling non-chalantly.....

[crashdive123]

Did you hand him a sponge?

[Gray Wolf]

Crash it was post #36 and #37 here.

[crashdive123]

I know. Kind of looked like that sponge thing that was being discussed in another thread.

[Rick]

Both of you are really hateful, you know that? Where's my ban button. I know I had it a few minutes ago......

[crashdive123]

What???? Whadwesay?

[Gray Wolf]

Oh it was just in fun, here now have some of these and stop crying....

[pgvoutdoors]

that's a good list GW, I'll nip over with some fire embers to get you going after I tuck in Rick. (dont' tell pgv he'll say I'm cheating)

Get back over to your side of the mountain Trax!

[Gray Wolf]

Trax? I didn't see him, just this wolf that was looking for some girl skipping thru the woods... :rolleyes:

[trax]

Did you hand him a sponge?

WEll we had a noob on here the other day who I think would have offered him a sponge bath :D :D :D (looking for a ______)

[nell67]

yeah,but I think he'd enjoy that too much,right Rick!:D

[trax]

He doesn't forget this guy, can't go out "roughing" it without this little guy Rick

[Gray Wolf]

Trax, I don't know how little that duck is, comparing the other items in the pict, might be a Trojan Duck!

[crashdive123]

So, PGV --- what would you bring and why?

[Gray Wolf]

I'll give it a go..

(7) Hatchet - use for chopping fire wood, making shelter, traps, spear, fire with found flint rocks and napping (to make hooks, clean game or fish)
(8) Wool Blanket - sleep in (on a bed of pine branches, so off cold ground, and for comfort) - use during the day if needed.
(3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size - boil water, cook.
(7) 25 ft. of 550 Cord - make snares, fishing line
(4) Trash Bag, Large - use as pancho if needed
Shelter next to stream - improve daily.
Use hatchet and can to dig fire pit.
Build a wall out of rocks to reflect the heat from the fire.
Use smoke and blanket (have green pine branches to make smoke ready, along with extra wood) for signaling.

pgv,
There is nothing I can get rid of, out of this list.

Wait, I want him to grade mine before he does his, mine totaled 29, and I'd like to know what he thinks I could do without, 'cause I'd like to know what I'm not seeing or realizing.

[chiggersngrits]

hey gray wolf, just for kicks what would you choose next off the list or if you could have two of one of the items you already picked, which would it be?

[Gray Wolf]

hey gray wolf, just for kicks what would you choose next off the list or if you could have two of one of the items you already picked, which would it be?

Good question, Not looking at the point values I'm torn between:

Swiss Army Knife, ten tools - would make some chores easier:
Making traps, spear, hooks, and cleaning game or fish

or

.22 Rifle w/ (10) rounds - would get 10 meat items, and with wild plant edibles and fish, lots of food. Also better protection if needed, than the Hatchet or Spear.

Drum roll......... I'd take the .22 Rifle w/10 rounds, would get 10 meat items, and with wild plant edibles and fish, lots of food. Less energy expended ie; no need to make and set traps and snares, then keep checking and moving them. Time and energy better used collecting firewood and making a better shelter. Better protection if needed.

But I could survive with my original list.

[chiggersngrits]

thanks g.w., i like your list and your reasoning for each item. you have a much more advanced skill set than i. if the fish were difficult to obtain it would be a long couple weeks for me.

[Rick]

Then, G.W., you find out the ten rounds are 12 years old and 9 are clicks. Only 1 is a bang.:D

[crashdive123]

You still have a nice club.

[Gray Wolf]

Then, G.W., you find out the ten rounds are 12 years old and 9 are clicks. Only 1 is a bang.:D

That isn't a problem, I have my original list of equipment that I am comfortable with. I was just answering a question if I could have something else off the list what would it be. And crash is right, I'd have a heavy club and a great pry bar (the barrel) that I didn't have before, plus one rabbit, some extra firewood and gun power as another fire starter or use to make small controlled blast to chase away whatever. Also by breaking down the rifle, I would have extra metal to work with, the slugs and even the trigger would work as good sinkers. Even the empty shells could be made into hooks.

To me anything more than my original list is a plus.

[Cleankill47]

Okay, using the choices given, I would take:

(10)-High Carbon knife- With this, I can:
-Make a hand drill, fireboard, and shave tinder and cut kindling for a fire.
-Strip bark and fibrous plants to wrap cordage (lashings, snares, fishline, etc.)
-Carve traps (figure 4, paiute, other deadfalls, etc.)
-Carve out containers for rock-boiling foods, teas, stews, etc.
-Skin, clean, and cut up game to be cooked or smoked.
-And, I can put a razor edge on it with a fine grain river rock if/when I needed to.

You get the idea...

And (4) a canteen, the only way to hold water in 4% humidity without it disappearing.

Total=14 points

Within the first ten minutes, I would have a sturdy throwing stick for small game while I was looking for a good shelter site and gathering tinder and other materials. Then I would proceed to make a debris hut with four-foot thick walls, and a firepit 6 feet in front with a reflector directing two-thirds of the potentially lost heat back into the shelter.

I would get my water by filling my canteen with snow and placing it a reasonable distance from the fire. Once you have water in it, it is important to always leave some, since it speeds the melting of additional snow.

The first day, I would make around ten traps, mostly snares and a deadfall or two, and set them up while looking for wild edibles.

Seeing how long this explanation might be, I won't go into more detail unless someone requests it..

So, with a grand total of 14 whole points, I would have everything I needed to procure shelter, water, fire, fish, and game, and actually get and stay comfortable within the first three days of my arrival. No bills, no problems.

Two weeks? Ha!

Good luck getting me to come home. :)

[Rick]

Regardless of skills, I would still opt for as many of the tools as possible given the point system. You never know when one of those deadfalls will claim your hand.:D (they can be vicious at times. ;) ) Then where would you be?

[Cleankill47]

Rick, you do know that a basic deadfall is a figure-four trap with a weight just heavy enough to kill the target animal, not crush it, right? And that the average rabbit or marmot weighs no more than seven pounds, right?

Just checking....

Just kidding, rick. I've had my hands caught in a Conibear #110 and got out just fine. Even snapped my fingers in a #220, that wasn't pleasant, but I could still use my hand/fingers after.. I've had more problems from them than any deadfall I've ever set.



I guess if I absolutely had to add some things, they would be the axe (10) and the bow string (5).

Making the new total 29.

The axe would allow me to split and store bulk firewood, and I could make a bow, plenty of yew grows out there. A single pronghorn antelope would feed me for the entire trip if supplemented with more wild edibles...

And, if my choice of a # of rounds, I would take my Henry .22.

Of course, these things would be a convenience, and for a much longer trip. They are by no means necessary. And I am still perfectly happy with my original list.

[Gray Wolf]

Cleankill, you do know that you only have a t-shirt right? You also said you would get your water from the snow, so any reasonable person would assume that it's cold out, and that it might be, or start snowing or raining again. How did you say you were going to stay warm and dry, day and night, with only a t-shirt?


High Carbon knife- With this, I can:
-Make a hand drill, fireboard, and shave tinder and cut kindling for a fire.
-Strip bark and fibrous plants to wrap cordage (lashings, snares, fishline, etc.)
-Carve traps (figure 4, paiute, other deadfalls, etc.)
-Carve out containers for rock-boiling foods, teas, stews, etc.
-Skin, clean, and cut up game to be cooked or smoked.
-And, I can put a razor edge on it with a fine grain river rock if/when I needed to.

And a canteen, the only way to hold water in 4% humidity without it disappearing.

Total=14 points

Seeing how long this explanation might be, I won't go into more detail unless someone requests it..

I request it....

It would also help for you to go over to the introduction area and tell us about yourself and what kind of experience you have.

[Ameriborn]

I agree with Gray Wolf here. I am not saying you can't do it, as you may be extremely experienced and be able to pull it off. I am only saying that I personally would find that extremely difficult to do. I may only be 19 and have limited experience, but I believe that to be extremely difficult. (Limited compared to these guys, I've been with my dad since I was 3 camping)

Oops, as for my list, I would pretty much have the same things as Rick did. I may substitute a thing or 2, gimme some more time to view the list.

[Rick]

Oh, man, missed the snow part. Buzzzzzzzz. Sorry. No snow. At least not according to the weather averages.:D

Scroll down to "Denver Monthly Weather Summaries" and look at last year's weather for November:
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/bou/cli/climo.php

[Gray Wolf]

But he thought there was snow, so he didn't read the posts (or your post Rick #8) that there was a need to keep warm and dry. But I'm sorry, with his timetable, just a knife and a canteen, I need a better explanation.

[gourdhead1997]

Okay, I'm a newbie here but I will give this a try. Nice brain teaser too, BTW. I choose:
bic lighter (10)
wool blanket (8)
hatchet (7)
trash bag (4)
coffee can (3)
mirror (4)
fishing line (4)
That's 40! I know everybody says Bic lighter? but, hey, it's 10 points that I could use. As long as it stays dry, I can start a fire in a few seconds with no hassle. It will also work if out of fluid though not very easy.
Wool blanket is must in these conditions. Insulates even if wet. Hatchet for cutting tool. I assume it is razor sharp! Trash bag for shelter, rainwear, etc. Coffee can for boiling water and cooking. Banging the @#$# out of to gets someones attention or scaring that bear out of camp. Mirror for signaling all those planes out there looking for my sorry @#$. Also for watching myself dwindle away to nothing since those pesky critters seem to be avoiding all my snares and deadfalls. Fishing line for fishing, building shelter, snares. I wanted the paracord but not enough points.
Okay all you knowledgeable survivors. How did I do?
Ps: I would spend some quality time trying to find a second means of fire starting. I wouldn't necessarily count on the lighter. It is a luxury.

[Cleankill47]

Ok, Gray Wolf.

Sorry about that, missed the 'just a t-shirt' detail...

And the fact that the snows don't start out there until December...

Hmmm..... I suppose I would add the Wool blanket to wear as a capote, but a properly constructed debris hut with four-foot thick walls will almost have you sweating when it's twenty below outside, so it would be for outside.

And since there isn't any snow, the water I would collect from the cleanest-looking, fastest-moving, healthiest appearing stream and boil in a coal-burned container, of which I would have made at least one within three days.

[Rick]

cleanest-looking, fastest-moving, healthiest appearing stream

What? How's a guy supposed to be able to challenge that?:D

[klkak]

I've seen some of the "cleanest-looking, fastest-moving, healthiest appearing streams" coming right out of beaver ponds. Gerardia doesn't care how clean, fast or healthy a stream looks. Come to think of it after I've had about a six-pack my piss is a clean looking, fast moving and healthy appearing stream. I wouldn't recommend drinking it though.

[Gray Wolf]

I've seen some of the "cleanest-looking, fastest-moving, healthiest appearing streams" coming right out of beaver ponds. Gerardia doesn't care how clean, fast or healthy a stream looks.

That's why these TV shows are dangerous! They will get people hurt or sick, with no liability... When it comes to water in the wild, boil, boil, boil!

[Cleankill47]

I said I would boil. This is getting irritating.

[klkak]

I said I would boil. This is getting irritating.

Aw, porbrecito. Reach down into your pants and grab-a-hold of your manhood, buck up and get over it.

Was it mean of me to say that? Oh well.:D

[Gray Wolf]

High Carbon knife- With this, I can:
Make a hand drill, fireboard, and shave tinder and cut kindling for a fire.
Strip bark and fibrous plants to wrap cordage (lashings, snares, fishline, etc.)
Carve traps (figure 4, paiute, other deadfalls, etc.)
Carve out containers for rock-boiling foods, teas, stews, etc.
Skin, clean, and cut up game to be cooked or smoked.
And, I can put a razor edge on it with a fine grain river rock if/when I needed to.
*************************************
Within the first ten minutes, I would have a sturdy throwing stick for small game while I was looking for a good shelter site and gathering tinder and other materials. Then I would proceed to make a debris hut with four-foot thick walls, and a firepit 6 feet in front with a reflector directing two-thirds of the potentially lost heat back into the shelter.
The first day, I would make around ten traps, mostly snares and a deadfall or two, and set them up while looking for wild edibles.


I'm not trying to annoy you, read over carefully what you wrote here, and the priorities in which your making things happen . Your time line and priorities just don't add up. Just trying to be helpful.

[Rick]

Irritating is what we do, Cleankill. Just one of the many annoying challenges we offer free of charge.:D:D

[crashdive123]

On the occasions where we don't cause irratation, you have to look out for the chaffing.

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

Fact is you would do it with your choice of stuff or there is always the alternative lol

[pgvoutdoors]

Hello Everyone!
I've been on a couple outings and haven't been able to respond to this thread until now. I'll read over your posts and give some comments as well as posting my own plan.
Thanks for you participation. :)

[pgvoutdoors]

I compiled the list of possible items to choose from so to make you think of what is important to you. The number value keeps you from picking only the best items, you must consider your own skills and then decide what you could use to survive. I put this list together with some of the most common items but obviously there is many other things that can be use. I want to make it clear that there's no perfect answer but every decision base on what's best for you. I made the list without a plan in mind.

Looking over the list I might choose the following totaling 40 points;

10 Sleeping Bag
8 Poncho
7 Hatchet
6 120 ft. of climbing rope
6 3 qt. Pot
3 Metal Fork & Spoon

WHY:
Sleeping Bag: Protection from the cold in the mountains is a very high priority. Being that I'm wearing only the minimum of clothing I must provide protection in as many ways as possible. A sleeping bag can be slightly modified to be made into a coat. I would use the sharp edge of the hatchet to cut the needed holes for the head and arms. Using fibers from the rope and a tine from the fork I could stitch the head and arm holes properly. Now I have both a way to stay warm while on the move as well as sleeping at night.
Poncho: This will be my protection from the rain and wind. Pulled over the sleeping bag and then tied around the waist with some of the climbing rope. The poncho is very versatile, it also can be used as a canopy while on the move giving protection from the rain and sun.
Hatchet: My main cutting tool. Hatchets can be used for many chores, chopping timber, cleaning game, knife chores, and struck with a hard stone it can create ample sparks to start a fire. I'm proficient in primitive fire starting skills so this is why I didn't choose a fire starting tool. I would more than likely use the bow and drill method.
120 ft. of Climbing Rope: Can be used to tie framing for a shelter, unraveled to make twine, fish line, and thread.
3 qt. Pot: For cooking, boiling water, polish the bottom for signaling, and can be banged on for noise.
Metal Fork & Spoon: I'll use these items to make; a needle, fish hooks, spear tip, and arrow point. The soft stainless metal can be formed into all sorts of useful items.

Signaling for Help: A campfire by day and night will be my primary method of signaling. I would put out markers in the surrounding area to help direct search parties to my camp. Banging on the pot will provide a unnatural noise to draw attention to my camp. By polishing the bottom of the cook pot with a bit of sandy dirt, a makeshift signal mirror can be use for long distance signaling.

Food: My strongest skill to acquire food would be fishing. I would use the fibers from the climbing rope to make the fishing line. A green sapling about 4-5 foot long would work for a fishing pole. I would fashion a couple of fish hooks out of the tines of the fork and sharpen them on a stone. Next I would look for eatable plants that I was familiar with, inter pine bark and pine nuts. Last I would set some snares made from the rope. I would collect my water from the streams and boil to purify it.

Shelter: There would be plenty of pine trees to build my shelter out of. With the use of the hatchet I could cut all the limbs and pine bows I needed with little effort. I would use some of the rope to lash them together. At night I would use my sleeping bag wrapped in my poncho to sleep in. I would use green pine bows with the center limbs removed to make my bed.

Navigation: I'm proficient in primitive land navigation and would use the sun and stars to navigate by. Though once I decided on a base camp location I would only move about when it was required for food.

O K, that's the short version of one possibility.

[Sam]

Situation:
You are being tested on your ability to utilize a minimum of supplies to survive in the wild for two weeks. You can choose from the following list any items you like but there's limitations on how much you can choose. Each item has been given a point value and you are limited to a total of (40) points. Additional limitations are:
1. only one item with a value of (10) points
2. only one item with a value of (8) points

Choose your items based on the following information:
1. the clothing you are wearing is; hiking boots, wool socks, jeans, cotton underwear, cotton t-shirt, NO belt.
2. Location: Colorado
3. Terrain: Mountainous, 8000 ft
4. Water: streams
5. Season: November

Answer the following questions:
1. Why you chose the items you did?
2. How would you signal for help?
3. How would you maintain your food and water supply?
4. How would you protect yourself from the elements?

(Value)
(10) High carbon knife, 6" blade
(8) Swiss Army Knife, ten tools
(7) Flashlight w/ batteries
(7) Shovel, military folding type
(7) Hatchet
(10) Axe
(10) .22 Rifle w/ (10) rounds
(6) Wire Saw
(8) Bow Saw
(7) SAS Survival Book
(7) MRE
(8) 10x10 Tarp
(8) Poncho
(8) Wool Blanket
(10) Sleeping bag, 20 degree
(10) Tent, 2-person dome
(10) Water Filter
(7) Water Bladder, 4 qt.
(4) Canteen, 1 qt.
(6) Water purifying Tablets, (20) tablets
(8) A piece of Flint, 4 oz.
(5) (5) Strike Anywhere Matches
(10) Bic Lighter
(5) (2) pieces of Fat Wood, 8x1/2"
(4) Plumbers Candle
(3) Bicycle Inner tube
(4) Razor Blade
(4) 100 ft. of Fishing Line, 10 lb. test
(6) 30 ft. of snare wire
(3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size
(6) 120 ft. Climbing Rope
(6) Compass
(4) Signal Mirror
(5) Whistle
(5) Bow String
(7) Fishing Rod w/ line
(5) (2) Fishing Hooks
(7) (2) Trout Flies
(5) Weighted Jig
(7) 25 ft. of 550 Cord
(6) 3 qt. Pot
(3) metal Fork & Spoon
(5) Dental Floss, 70 ft.
(5) Antibiotic Cream
(3) (6) Band-Aids
(3) Roll of Gauze, 3x30"
(4) Aluminum Hub Cap
(3) (4) Safety Pins
(4) Trash Bag, Large
(3) Pen & Notebook

Good Luck!:)

Here is my list.
(8pts.) wool blanket
(6pts.) snare wire
(7pts.) 25' 550 cord
(4pts.) trash bag
(3pts.) coffee can
(5pts.) 5 matches
(7pts.) hatchet

I used all 40 pts. to make up for my lack of experince. How'd I do?
Thanks for do this.

[pgvoutdoors]

Sam, Without knowing your plan it's hard to say. You have though picked some very good items and have used your points to cover many needs. Good job.

[Gray Wolf]

I'll give it a go..

(7) Hatchet - use for chopping fire wood, making shelter, traps, spear, fire with found flint rocks and napping (to make hooks, clean game or fish)
(8) Wool Blanket - sleep in (on a bed of pine branches, so off cold ground, and for comfort) - use during the day if needed.
(3) Coffee Can, metal 2 lb. size - boil water, cook.
(7) 25 ft. of 550 Cord - make snares, fishing line
(4) Trash Bag, Large - use as pancho if needed
Shelter next to stream - improve daily.
Use hatchet and can to dig fire pit.
Build a wall out of rocks to reflect the heat from the fire.
Use smoke and blanket (have green pine branches to make smoke ready, along with extra wood) for signaling.
Total = 29

pgv,
There is nothing I can get rid of, out of this list.

pgv, I would like you to give your feedback on mine, seriously! Thanks

[pgvoutdoors]

pgv, I would like you to give your feedback on mine, seriously! Thanks

At (29) points you have made a very good survival kit. You didn't include any fire starting gear, so you must be proficient in primitive fire starting skills. That's good!
The choice of a Hatchet is a great, my personal choice as well, with practice it can be used for most cutting jobs. The hatchet in this scenario is made of standard carbon steel, nothing special. As a side note I carry a Timberline Hatchet in my lumbar pack, but it's made of stainless steel. This makes it useless for fire starting. Otherwise its very nice.
The Wool Blanket used as a cape and protected with the trash bag might be sufficient protection from weather while on the move. Sitting still you may have to sit by a fire to stay warm. At night you may get cold if you don't utilize your fire to stay warm while sleeping. Everyone has a different level of tolerance to cold, but in the mountains and at that time of year it's cold for most people.
The Coffee Can is sufficient for a two week stay. For the low point value, it's a deal.
The 550 Cord is one of the most universal survival items you could have. It's a must in any survival kit.
A Trash Bag is another great kit item, if buying bags for a kit, get the heavy duty yard type or better yet, the type the road department uses.

Looking at your choices it's obvious that you were aiming for the minimalist type of kit. In that case you did great but, it was not required to go that way. A person choosing your method I would evaluate as a experience outdoorsman, with strong survival skills.:)

[Rick]

My son happened to break his belt while we were out this past week-end and ended up with a Jethro belt of para cord. Gotta love that 550 cord!

[pgvoutdoors]

Don't leave home without it!

[Beo]

PVG this is what I carry and wear give it a shot please. I know its not off your list but its what I carry when trekking. What do you think.
Hat: French Cap (TUQUE, blue) for winter, and a head scarf or felt blank for summer.
Shirt: Cotton Hunting Shirt 3each
Leggings: Wool (Dark blue trimmed in yellow), long Canvas gaiters (Brown)
Garters: Hand Woven & Leather Strap Type
Sash: Hand Woven
Breechclout: Wool, Dark blue trimmed in yellow & deer hide
Breeches: French Button Fly 2 pair
Moccasins: Dark Brown Ligonier Moc by Arrow Moccasin's
Haversack or Snapsack: Canvas with 36-inch tumpline with the following items inside:extra leather thongs (36in. long 10 each), Tin Cup (2) Castile Soap (2) Candle (3) Sewing & fishing kit, Whetstone, Bag of parched corn & jerky, Tea Block, Pouch of tobacco and pipe, Patch knife, Forged fork & Spoon, Tin Boiler, salt and herb horn.
Possibles Bag: Leather, holding the following items inside: Frizzen Stall,1-Bullet Bag holding 20 .62 cal. round ball, 1-Cow’s Knee, 1-Priming Horn, Leather Flint Packet (5 pieces of flint), 1-Tin of bees wax & tallow, 1-Hand Forged Screwdriver, Bag of tow, Loading block (tied to strap of possibles bag), Vent Pick & Brush, Pouch with different ramrod tips, tow strips, & paper cartridges (10 each), and extra springs.
Belt Pouch: Holding the following items: Flint striker & char cloth, cattail fluff, dried moss, and bark tinder in tin, Candle (2)
Powder Horn tied to hunting pouch strap
Long Knife (8 to 10 inch blade)
Hatchet/Tomahawk w/cover
Flintlock: French Fusil de Chasse (Tulle) with flashguard
Bedroll: Canvas diamond shelter (waterproofed 10x10)
Wool blanket (4x6) not used in summer months
Canvas ground cloth (waterproofed 4x5)
The diamond shelter is laid out flat with ends folded in, ground cloth is folded to fit next, then the wool blanket (if needed) and rolled tightly and tied with two leather straps, the leather shoulder strap is used as a tumpline (shoulder strap as we call it).
Canteen: Round Gourd Canteen w/ leather strap

I'm gonna do yours this weekend when I got more time. Thanks Beo.

[pgvoutdoors]

WOW!!!! You got it down. I'll stop by your next class. Love the frontier method.
Keep passing on information like that, that's what people come to this site for.
Great job BeoWulf65.:cool:

[Beo]

PGV, really I am not joking and I was serious, that is what I carry, I do histroical trekking so I carry this stuff.
And I honsetly wanted an opinion from you.

[pgvoutdoors]

PGV, really I am not joking and I was serious, that is what I carry, I do histroical trekking so I carry this stuff.
And I honsetly wanted an opinion from you.

I absolutely believe you and I like what I see. I could give an opinion on each item but I feel the list speaks for it's self. Plus I'm suppose to be making dinner for my girl friend. I would like to discuss your methods at a later time though. I think everyone can get something from you. sorry I don't have the time tonight.

[Beo]

That's okay, I thought your making fun of my kit, been kinda rough round here lately. Have a good one.

[pgvoutdoors]

All is Good, I'm not that way. Take care and I'll talk to you later!

[Rick]

Make dinner for my girlfriend. Critique Beo. Man, now that would be a hard choice to make. You know how I like to critique Beo.

[Gray Wolf]

pgv,

Thanks for your input. I am an experience outdoorsman, with strong survival skills. I'm an independent wilderness guide in Northern Vermont and Central Florida, also an agent for gator hunters (season starts today the 15th). I've had the pleasure of hunting, fishing and long treks in the Colorado Rockies many times. The reason I said I couldn't take anything off my list, is because I tried a few times to do with less (testing myself), a friend and mentor was always camped a couple miles away just in case. With the energy expended with making a "good" shelter, collecting those materials and "enough" firewood, making and setting traps and snares, fire starting, whether with my hatchet and flint rock (usually), or with a fire bow, or hand drill, digging the fire pit and making the reflective fire wall (collecting and setting the rocks or in some cases a wood wall). I find it a foolish waste of time and energy, to do without the paracord (making my own cordage) or the coffee can (making items out of wood). The hatchet, wool blanket and trash bag are plain bare necessities. With some napping (which I need to improve on a lot!) I can make a good enough blade to skin and ready my catches whether animal or fish, and a good enough spear point, and the same with making hooks. One thing I do at night to keep warm, besides for the fire pit and reflective wall, is to heat large enough rocks that I can either roll with wood or my hatchet into my shelter, around the interior walls (about a foot away so it doesn't catch fire) right before I go to sleep, it helps you to stay warm, when the fire starts to dye down. Besides for the obvious reasons, rain, snow and wind, making sure you insulate your shelter well, will help you in retaining heat. I have been in the Colorado Rockies, when it HAS snowed heavily in November.
Thanks again for your input. We always can learn more. Like your signature says: "Tell Me and I'll Listen, Show Me and I'll Learn".

[pgvoutdoors]

Your experience speaks for it's self, you explain yourself well and should teach others whenever possible. Stay safe out there.