Methinks we're being played.

[Sarge47]

Something's fishy here. All of a sudden we have a number of "Newbys" acting like "Numptys" & asking the same questions over & over again, yet igoring our requests for further information. :eek: PGVoutdoors asks that we either make the "intro" section a part of the "sign-up" process or "dump it". That would be Chris' decision, not mine or Rick's. However, when people come on here deliberately abusing the process then steps must be taken. I suggest that no member of the Wolf-Pack waste their time answering anybody who is ignoring a request for more info so we can better answer their question in the 1st place. Furthermore I will no longer waste my time on any "Newby" who asks for advice, then turns around and criticizes the person who gives it because it didn't fit in with what they wanted to hear. For all I know these are part of Brad & Adrian's camp followers...maybe. But whoever or whatever, I'm not playing. & if I get anymore profile messages like the one I just received a little while ago, I'm going to ban that person.:mad: Newby's; (those responsible) you've been warned!:cool:

[BraggSurvivor]

Does it go the same with the Cat pack Sarge? ;)

[nell67]

I agree with you Sarge,I think we ARE being played,really strange that soo many newbies coming in within such a short period of time,throwing out the same questions!

I kind of think that maybe the newbies should get a 24 hour "cooling off" period,in which they can only read the posts already on the forum,before they start posting,maybe a newbie section of must read threads.

I know it doesn't sound fair,since we didn't have to do it,but thats just my opinion.

[Dennis K.]

at risk of opening a can of worms - who are Brad & Adrian?

[crashdive123]

Dennis - They actually were the impetus for the Numpty sticky http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=378 They make an intro in post 11. In a nutshell, they came here said they were going into the wilderness for 30 days with nothing but their knives, all the while filming so they could sell vids on their website. They didn't quite make it that long.

[trax]

Sarge, does that mean I'm not allowed to toy with their little heads? Cuz I kind of liked the advice I gave that guy yesterday:D

[Dennis K.]

I see, said the blind man. Methinks, if I'm bored, I should seek their vids on YouStupid.

FWIW - I appreciate the advice here - and take it with a grain of salt. I know about what i am capable of and where my shortcomings are, I read a lot, ask some questions, then go and try something.
The only thing difficult about that is occasionally forcing myself to seize the opportunity to shut up and listen. :D

[trax]

The only thing difficult about that is occasionally forcing myself to seize the opportunity to shut up and listen. :D

I may have been guilty of that a time or two myself Dennis. I must say, to my knowledge you've shown the grace to not call someone a liar after they offered advice you may not have liked, which has happened here a time or two. ( I don't do it either, I just curse them under my breath and kick the computer, lol)

[Dennis K.]

similar nonsense on the trombone forum - some kid (or more recently, some adult with an axe to grind) feels like they can "present their case..."

[crashdive123]

Sometimes ya gotta remember - If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

[Chris]

I agree with you Sarge,I think we ARE being played,really strange that soo many newbies coming in within such a short period of time,throwing out the same questions!

I kind of think that maybe the newbies should get a 24 hour "cooling off" period,in which they can only read the posts already on the forum,before they start posting,maybe a newbie section of must read threads.

I know it doesn't sound fair,since we didn't have to do it,but thats just my opinion.
Imagine you're not a member of the forum and you come here for the first time.

Maybe you see a thread you like to answer. So you go through the registration process, then wait for the email confirmation to come, then do the email confirmation, then you can post your answer in the thread, only to be told "sorry, come back tommorow."

Or, maybe you want to ask a question, and you do all of the above, only to be told to wait a day.

What are the chances you just go find a different forum or site?

The goal of the forum is NOT to be exclusive, it is to be inclusive. If you do not care to answer a new person's post, do not answer it, you're under no obligation to do so. But so long as they're not spamming (ie, posting links, selling shoes, etc) then they can post their questions, even if they're simple, because, everyone has to start somewhere right?

You'll see it if you stay around long enough, the person who started out posting the dumb questions in say 5 years becomes the one answering them, and the hard questions too. One forum I was a member of for 9 years I saw such things numerous times. One guy in fact I gave career advice too, and he took it, and now he's doing quite well, and I got to see the whole length of his transformation from knowing nothing to being an expert.

So give the newbies a break. We all were newbies once, well most of us, one of two of you may have sprung out of your moms fully grown and well versed in the topics already.

[trax]

awwww....way to put me in my place Chris! (gotta kick the computer again, now, these guys are gonna quit buying me computers &@*! it!)

...but I'm probably gonna keep toying with them, it's like Igor torturing things, it's my nature....

[mountainboy]

i missed sumthin .i used to just half a-- hobie around with the idea of moven to alska in the middle of no were a liven a fine life .ever sense i was 10yrs old.needless to say i got caught up in the rat race , raisen my kids .any way 1 day i got up , was listen to the news on the way to work ,thought dam boy payattention look around every things going to hell .no mater how hard i work my kids arent going to have a chance .INLESS I TEACH them how to realy live .so then i found yall ,a few others ,i read ,ask any an every thing i could think of . i learn from yall ,i teach them .whats wrong with that ?im not tryin to piss any one off just wonderin .about newbees if im way off base then sorry .im old school guess dont beat around the bush put it out on the table . needless to say i think u folks are very smart , me , mine can learn alot from yall .an not be out in the cold thanks .great cite i hope i can learn , teach a newbee also .

[Ridge Wolf]

I like Chris' post. That makes a lot of common sense. Non judgemental, compassionate, Good business ethic. All for one and one for all I say.

I agree with Nell too. There should be required reading as part of the registration process as a 'To Help You Get Started' kind of thing and that could be the title of the sticky or category. Redundant questions (to which the answers are already posted) take up bandwidth among other 'frustrations'. Encyclopedic information should be a part of any informative forum.

[trax]

What you said, I've got no problem whatsoever with. What's happened is a lot of people have logged in and asked questions that quite frankly, don't deserve a serious answer because none of the experienced people have enough information from the person asking to give them a well informed answer. And when it's done over and over and over, we get frustrated. I've been meaning on a couple of these guys myself the last couple of days, but honestly, if I'm asked a serious question that I can offer an informed answer on, I always will and I'll offer up where I got my information from.

[mountainboy]

someone maken a joke of what we here r taking serious, enjoyable:D

[TrappinGal]

im a newbie here and i have read alot and have asked some questions,none that i hope anyone has taken offense too because they have been previously asked.

thing is like with the trapping website i have, it does get aggravating to answer the same question over and over, But i think many times if the question has been asked before, some of the new members may not realize it, and they just dont know the basics and need help starting out

.i was actually going to post a thread about making butter but found one a few pages back and brought it back up.

what i did on my forum was to actually create an archives section with the most commonly asked basic questions answered in detail. those trheads are saved in the archives for future use by new members indefinitely.that way it saves you from having to answer the same questions repeatedly. the new members can be directed there.

even if a new person asks a repetitive qurestion, they may not realize its repetitive because if theyre new and just starting out, they are gonna be learning from the bottom up and arent gonna know the answers to many basic questions.

i have had to caution members on my forum that sometimes if they put off a new member by giving arrogant or condescending answers that theyre hurting the future of trapping because they may alienante somoene early on to the sport who has a legitimate thirst for knowledge on a given subject, no matter how basic someone else may think it is.

[TrappinGal]

BTW, i found this forum by Googling survival forums.

[Sourdough]

, You'll see it if you stay around long enough, the person who started out posting the dumb questions in say 5 years becomes the one answering them, and the hard questions too. One forum I was a member of for 9 years I saw such things numerous times. One guy in fact I gave career advice too, and he took it, and now he's doing quite well, and I got to see the whole length of his transformation from knowing nothing to being an expert.



Which is a point I have made, or attempted to: You can end up with a lot of book learned, or google learned people, who have never been outdoors, but they can google up an answer. We have it here with young people who have never owned a firearm, or discharged a firearm, but are experts. You have people who have never had bears in camp, who are bear experts.....end rant.:rolleyes:

[TrappinGal]

how long does someone have to partake in any given activity to be an expert on that subject, in your opinion?

[Sourdough]

how long does someone have to partake in any given activity to be an expert on that subject, in your opinion?

Depends on the subject: A male human is never a expert on female humans.....

After 61.6 years I am still not an expert, at anything accept being ME....

I might know more about bears in camp, than 99.99999 percent of other people but that does not make me an expert, only more experienced in that small area. If I wanted to learn about trapping I would go to a experienced trapper to learn, not a search engine expert.

Look at it this way: in the old day people read books to learn, and just because you read a book does not make you an expert, but for some reason people think they are experts if they can google up an answer.

[trax]

BTW, i found this forum by Googling survival forums.

OK, now I'm laughing...so did I!

[nell67]

I think that is the way alot of us found the site.

[trax]

Deep breath in...and....ok here we go. I hope I can get this right on one try.

First, I'm as guilty of being a smartazz towards newbies (and sometimes oldbies)as anyone. Yeah, that's not news. But I really don't want to chase anyone away unless it's someone that the community thinks is a total jerk, but that's not the case here.

A long time ago, a bunch of us had this discussion about people posting advice vs. posers. I will back up anything I have for advice with....I was told this vs. I've done this and it worked (or didn't). I'm not handing out stuff I've learned on the InterWeb. If I see a page that I think explains something better than I can, I'll post the link, people can check the page author's credentials out for themselves, I don't usually post links. I think most people are eventually going to catch on to what's the real deal as far as advice goes when they go out and try it. Maybe in our welcoming comments, I don't know, it seems unfair to keep giving Chris more work to do, but....if we let new people know why we want to know what area they're from or what kind of experience they have, the new people will share that information more willingly. No one wants your home phone number or your measurements or hair or eye color or whatever (trax is an aquarian who enjoys walks on the beach, cuddly puppies and meaningful conversations..yawn) We want information that will help us give good quality advice to the noobs. And yes, I believe everyone should start out maybe a little cautiously, use common sense and inevitably, eventually, get out there and get some dirt time in. Nothing beats the wilderness.

[TrappinGal]

hopeak, thats my point. they come here in hopes of finding an expert , like you would if you were looking to trap.

many of them may not know of anyone to get hands on help from and many people are to egotistical to help newbies if they did ask. im speaking of some well known trapping "experts" who think that all newbie trappers arent worthy of answering but yet, who do they think is the next generation of trappers?

why not share the wealth of knowledge you have on a subject willingly?

anyone can get answers from Google, wrong answers at times as well, thats why its important to help people from your firsthand knowledge. pass on what youve came to know through years of experience.

if we follow your way of thinking on what makes an expert, no one ever is an expert on anything,imo, and that negates the whole argument of "go find an expert to teach you firsthand."imo.

these forums are ,imo, a place to exchange ideas,give a helping hand so to speak, and to teach the new people interested in a certain field what you can to help make their experiences in that field more enjoyable and in the event of trapping,since it was mentioned, more profittable.

[Sarge47]

I really enjoy helping anybody, Newby or otherwise, who sincerely wants help; but if they start paring down my answers when they've previously admitted they know next to nothing because it doesn't fit this fantasy they've created by feeding on a solo diet of watching Discovery or Googling for data, then I'm out of it! Now they're a "Numpty". I'll admit I've got some tough bark on me, but hey, what can anyone expect, I'm a Survivor, right? And if they think they are then they should be able to handle what they get on this forum. We're not always mean, except for TRAX when he's "off his meds". (Wild Turkey) But I expect a certain amount of respect when asked for advice & hate being played. BTW, I always knew you were sincerely interested in learning, that's why you get along so good here...that & your jokes of course.:D

[trax]

How dare you suggest that my "med" is simply Wild Turkey. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I thought I'd made it quite well known that any alcohol of 40%/volume will suffice, along with a certain strain of mushroom.....yeah, hey why is my keyboard flashing purple and orange? oh never mind. :D

[TrappinGal]

I really enjoy helping anybody, Newby or otherwise, who sincerely wants help; but if they start paring down my answers when they've previously admitted they know next to nothing because it doesn't fit this fantasy they've created by feeding on a solo diet of watching Discovery or Googling for data, then I'm out of it! Now they're a "Numpty". I'll admit I've got some tough bark on me, but hey, what can anyone expect, I'm a Survivor, right? And if they think they are then they should be able to handle what they get on this forum. We're not always mean, except for TRAX when he's "off his meds". (Wild Turkey) But I expect a certain amount of respect when asked for advice & hate being played. BTW, I always knew you were sincerely interested in learning, that's why you get along so good here...that & your jokes of course.:D

lol. it helps i have a warped sense of humor. :D

and i do understand not liking to get played,in whatever arena.

[mountainboy]

this is what makes it all worth it folks tryin to work together .its like this yall /SIMPLE .LIKE A FOOTBALL TEAM i can play alot of positions but im better at def end ,takle .not a pro but fairly good .others are better at other positions an not as good at my position.but we all work together an we are undefeeded. dum but simple.if we all looked at life simuler to this .THERE would not be any one tryin to force a opion or beleaf on any one live an let live.mean while we can start here.cornie as all get out i know but true recon??????

[nell67]

Just so we are straight here,you do realize that this forum is an international forum?? We have ALOT of Canadian members,as well as members from other countries?;)

[TrappinGal]

Canada is a seperate country? :confused: :D

[mountainboy]

wrong choice of words but sorta missed the point if thats all that you got out of it sorry .live an let live

[nell67]

Canada is a seperate country? :confused: :D

True TrappinGal,eh?

[Sourdough]

shetrax, I like that.

[nell67]

shetrax, I like that.

Thanks hopeak.

[Ole WV Coot]

I grew up in a hollow in Eastern KY and what little I know I learned from older people and back then I could hit the hills with a friend, the only kid close to my age and stay until after dark. We made our own fun. Game we trapped was taken home and eaten. I learned to hunt with a single shot 20ga and didn't matter if we drove to another county the limit was 6. Daddy gave me 6 shells and when they were gone I went back to the truck to wait. Hoed corn on the riverbank and learned to swim and run a trot line, all that country hillbilly stuff down to using hickory bark for chair bottoms and making stuff. I had a great childhood, didn't know we were suppose to be dumb and inbred until I left home at 18. Some things I DO take seriously in my older years, God, family & country ain't in fashion again just like in the 60s. I did my share of a little of everything until I straightened up about 15yrs ago. I did learn a lot of different things and places and would like to kinda pass it on, but I learn something new from you guys every day and doing my best not to get too hot under the collar but I will give my opinion even if it ain't wanted sometimes.

[Dennis K.]

Canada is a seperate country? :confused: :D

amazing! - none of ya'll look Canadian.

As far as "real " advice vs. "web" advice:
Expertise is nearly impossible to quantify. What is not so difficult is "Done it" vs. "Not Done it."

I've seen a lot of similar stuff on other forums. Here's a snip from an article by one of the most respected trombone players in the country - I think it is especially pertinent:


There was a time - not so long ago - when those with knowledge were respected for having gained that knowledge and their sharing their knowledge was a gift that was gratefully received by those with less knowledge. This has been the case with teachers and students throughout time and each of us functions in both roles - teacher and student - for most of our lives. Everyone knows more about something than someone else. But each of us always has more to learn.

Self-evident? One would think. But unfortunately it is not so.

Membership in web-based fora and email list-serve groups is easy to attain. While forum and list-serve administrators usually require that people register using their real name, this is by no means the universal rule. Many people sign up using a pseudonym. People are identified by a "screen name" which gives no clue as to one's name, age, location, or academic standing. As such, fora and list-serves can equalize the wise man and the fool - with no way to know anything about a person who posts a message.

This aspect of the Internet - the equalization of the wise man and fool - is a fundamental reason why so few professional trombone players have any interest in posting messages to fora and list-serves. They know that once they put themselves online, they run the risk of being called out by a 14 year old.

When you're 14 years old, you have a lot of questions. But not a lot of answers. Not yet. Having answers comes with experience. There was a time when inexperienced people listened, waited their turn, and learned a few things before thinking they were experts. The Internet shattered that. Cloaking behind the veil of anonymity, anyone - learned or uneducated, expert or novice, genius or idiot, wise man or fool, serious student or troublemaker - can post a message. If a learned person makes a point, anyone in the group can take them on, tell them they're stupid, that they don't know what they're talking about, that they know better. How many times have I cringed when I've watched some young, inexperienced player on a forum lay into the sound or technique of an accomplished, well-respected player? Many times. It's too easy to hit the "send" button. Instead of thinking about the consequences of posting a rumor, a vile opinion or an ill-considered thought, the words speed out over the bandwidth. And the professional player, who has spent years building his reputation only to see his playing picked apart publicly by people who really don't know much about what they're talking about says, "I don't need this." And they disappear. Or they don't come to start with. You do have to put up with "stuff" to be a professional on fora and list-serves today, having to watch yourself, your peers and colleagues being called out regularly by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Full article here:
http://www.yeodoug.com/articles/text/what_happened.html

(I realize most of you will probably have no idea who this guy is. If he were a survivalist / bushcraft type, he would be something of a cross between Ray Mears and Rambo, but with a substantially larger amount of practical experience. In real life, though, he's the Bass Trombonist with the Boston Symphony Orchestra - one of the most competitive, well respected, and highest paid orchestras in the world)

[Rick]

Nice article, Dennis. I think the one thing that offsets the situation described in the article is other experienced folks responding to the post. It's happened here a bit. Someone new takes on a respected member and several others take the new comer. Set them straight, so to speak. Shame on us if we don't stand up and say something when bad advice is offered or a member is wrongfully attacked.

[trax]

Canada is a seperate country? :confused: :D

I don't want to have to explain this again...the US is our 11th province.:D

[TrappinGal]

Canadians are SOOO egotistical, kinda like Alaskans ;) :D














before anyone gets fiesty....i was being facetious :)

[nell67]

Now who on here would think about being fiesty??????:D

[BraggSurvivor]

And we are just a bit skinnier too. :D

[nell67]

And we are just a bit skinnier too. :D

Wadaya sayin' there Bragg??

[BraggSurvivor]

Nothin.

It was meant to go in before your post nell. :D:D:D

[nell67]

Nothin.

It was meant to go in before your post nell. :D:D:D
Ok,just so's ya ain't callin' us fat,cuz,I'm just pleasantly plump ya know:rolleyes:

[BraggSurvivor]

Pleasantly plump, I like it. Gotta use that one sometime.

My wife is always ribbing me about my giant deep naval. :D

[nell67]

Hey gotta have someplace to store the lint,eh??

[trax]

Canadians aren't egotistical TG....we just know we're the best. No big. Don't have to take my word for it...ask Bragg or Riverrat or WE or flandersander or Bibow or Marcraft or 2pines. Yeah there's a few others, too.

Hockey anyone? :D <<(that guy should be missing a front tooth, lol)

[TrappinGal]

And we are just a bit skinnier too. :D

whats your point?

[BraggSurvivor]

No point. I often travel down in the states on business and look around noticing I'm the skinniest fat guy at the table.

Just an observation.

[TrappinGal]

ive noticed the same thing on occasison, lol.depending where im at of course.

[Rick]

I guess the planet's chest has fallen. Canada used to be the pecs and now we're the gut.

[Bibow]

first off i think that most off those noobs your talking about don't really have an idea of what there supposed to be talking about but some are just hoseheads
sorry for creating a noobie thread with my first post that was obviously the last straw for some of you guys.
I agree with trax although i don't know what egotistical means we aren't.



WE ARE THE BEST