Group Survival 101. [Archive] - Page 2 - Wilderness Survival Forums

DEET

08-31-2007, 04:12 AM

I've decided that I don't want to spend the cold northern winter alone. So after watching the goings on at this little camp I scoped from the far ridge I know they haven't seen me since I have remained well covered from my observation post. I have spotted 5 armed men and one armed wood cutter as well as two women. The men appear to have military training by the way they dealt with the visitor to their camp a few days ago and the fact that they have rotating sentry duty. Unfortunately it seems they have no interest in anyone joining their group since the messenger that came to them from the other group returned with what apparently was bad news and they quickly left for a lake that i can see in the distance, I don't care for the exposed position near the lake and I'm not sure if that group is freindly or not since I haven'y been able to recon them properly from this distance. To move to a closer position would mean I'd have to go through the other groups perimeter. I make my decision to try and satrt a dialogue wiht the group in the woods next to that big *** bus. I decide that my only recourse is to expose myself in a clearing with my rifle shouldered and the offering of a deer and wait for their response.

lumpy

08-31-2007, 05:19 AM

I'm sleeping in a freak'n foxhole and you got a bus parked right down the road!

Isn't sarge just in keeping of military tradition.When I was in the field, the supply NCO always managed to find a cozy vehicle to sleep in,while the rest of us would be freezing our arse's off.:)

FVR

08-31-2007, 07:41 AM

SARGE!

Here is the damn snake I promised ya.

Good coffee.

When you see WE, let him know I'm doing my thing today. Going up towards the lake, taking the basket, I need some greens.

Hoping to find some watercress, onions, maybe patatoes and of course some cattail. Would not mind you making a few loaves of starch.

See ya'll after dark.

Oh, woods all taken care of. Pull from the big pile, all dry and no bark.

Hold on to this Crown will ya, think some fox or raccoon's been in it.

trax

08-31-2007, 10:47 AM

That one hour lap over time is getting close to dusk, best hunting hours.

Owl_girl and I have packed back a big buck, plenty of meat for awhile, will set up a tipi style meat smoker if that's ok from security standpoint. I can go back and use gut piles to bait cougar, coyote, fox or raccoon away from camp. They shouldn't be a threat, but on the other hand..those hides might come in handy come the colder weather. Going to travel with the .243 for now and offer to leave my .30 cal with Nell while she's in camp, if she wants to keep something handy. Will switch out with her if I find moose signs. I can load the .243 with 125 grain for deer, 70 grain for smaller. I'll start snaring for anything really small if we need them..I can snare rabbits, grouse, geese.

FVR, I recommend nell and owl_girl are future "greens gathering excursions" and thanks for the honey, like my coffee sweet.

Do we need to talk about..how do I ask this? People for the most part might want to remain with in a specific perimeter? Obviously those of us hunting/gathering will have to exceed that, but if its not necessary don't wander too far from camp? I can set up distance warning devices on the more obvious trails in, while I'm out tracking and hunting...and let those who need to travel know where they are placed.

trax

08-31-2007, 10:55 AM

We don't need to see you to know you're out there. Everything leaves signs and if I've spotted them (hell yeah, some might get past me, I"m human, but I'm also good at knowing what looks out of place) I'll have reported other human presence. And I don't think you dropped that deer silently (it can be done, but you tell me how you did it if you did it :) )

Also, at this point, I want to add, if you're a hunter I welcome the help. The other guys in my camp can obviously hunt too, but they have jobs. Everyone should be aware that as a hunter we are furthest afield from camp, therefore the first "newsbringers" and the first possible line of defense if there are "unfriendlies". We are also, by nature of the job, the most likely to p### off somebody else's camp if it becomes a competition for meat.

If you're going to join us as a hunter (and my vote to the group is welcome the guy in) then you and I need to discuss dividing up territories and times for hunting. We can hunt together or split up, lots of times splitting up is better. What's the rifle btw? and what else are you carrying in besides it and venison? Just to keep inventory up to speed.

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 11:39 AM

Well we should be starting on the roof of the cabin tomorrow. Today 2 are heading back to the trucks to get the rest of the stuff we buried cause we could not load it up. So you guys will probably see us passing through. Don’t shoot. Thinking about sending them back to the gas station also to see if the looters left anything behind. Could use some glass for windows in the cabin.

There are some nice stands of oak near by I think we should be able to gather a few gallons of acorns very easily. Deer all through there too. Cut some hickory and it is seasoning for smoking meat. Fishing has been good.

We have a latrine plenty far enough away form the water. Trying to decide if we might want to start on a fence around our new homestead. Maybe fence off a couple of acres. Almost like starting a fort

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 11:42 AM

[QUOTE=trax;6097]We are also, by nature of the job, the most likely to p### off somebody else's camp if it becomes a competition for meat.

QUOTE]

Trax,
I know I am not in your clan but we are both hunters. One way of stopping the above for both parties is for the two off us to have a sit down. To talk about where we are spending time, what we are seeing. Heads up on the geese they are starting to assemble at the lake for the push south. Also there is more then 1 cat and I seen some bear sign down by the river mouth. I will meet you by the River where it bends around the big rock it is about half way Let me know what time you want to meet.

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 11:42 AM

Double Post

trax

08-31-2007, 12:10 PM

My ancestors, traditionally, would name someone as "captain of the hunt" It worked well for them and I'd recommend it to my group. It doesn't necessarily have to be me, but I'll take it on if the group wants. The responsibility is for exactly the kind of thing RiM and I are talking about right now, and for organizing the group hunting activities. Makes for more productive hunting. It also speaks to the issue of the council meetings. That individual can speak on behalf of the group hunters instead of having to listen to three or four hunters yammering on about the same things.

If the group is agreeable, and I see the sense in it, I'll meet with RiM, alone, at noon tomorrow. I mentioned yesterday as well, the possibility of trade between the two groups. I'm going to meet RiM about hunting, but if the group wants me to broach any other subjects, I require that direction from council/CO.

trax

08-31-2007, 12:21 PM

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 12:31 PM

Owl-girl's root cellar idea is one I think we should act upon, immediately. Do we even have shovels? I kind of don't remember seeing them in inventory, I know I didn't bring one, but I know how to use one, that's for sure.
Actually it was volwest’s idea

trax

08-31-2007, 12:37 PM

Actually it was volwest’s idea whoops, sorry vol, either way, let's get at it.

Sarge47

08-31-2007, 12:48 PM

Based on the info that I've received just in RiM's last posting. Do we have anyone willing to, wanting to and capable of, dressing out furs and hides? Does anyone have the sewing skills to make decent clothing and moccasins?

I don't normally shoot bears, but is there anything on the bear that group cooks, doctors etc want? Or the fur?

Smaller furs (just as warm, easier to manipulate) will be found in that lake and river, if needed. Beaver, muskrat, otter. Beaver and muskrat are both edible too, I've never tried otter.

Same goes for the mountain lions. Other predators in the area don't bother me unless they're a threat to the humans, which they seldom are. By the way, the lion(s) will more likely act threatening to humans than any of the others. The bears right now just want to fill up and go to sleep.

Owl-girl's root cellar idea is one I think we should act upon, immediately. Do we even have shovels? I kind of don't remember seeing them in inventory, I know I didn't bring one, but I know how to use one, that's for sure.

I've got a NATO folding shovel as well as a couple of garden spades, axe, bowsaws (sm. & lg.). BTW, I'm not sleeping in the bus, I donated that to the females who are gonna need the privacy. I've got my hammock, sleeping pad, lt. wt. (for now) sleeping bag, mosquito netting, & camo Marine Corps poncho to put over the whole thing. I'm near the bus to be ready if anything goes South. I pitched one of the large cabin tents to be used for storing all the stuff I brought, but I like to be able to see what's comin'. Gotta be careful, SM dug one of his "pungi-pits" about 5 feet behind me. I got him and his two young helpers chopping wood and storing it to dry so as to keep the smoke down when we burn it. Owl-girl says she wants to go looking for herbs and edible plants soon, somebody's gonna have to go with her to watch her back. Kinda glad we're not going to the lake right now, mosquitos carry West Nile Virus and other bad stuff. I think Nell's gonna use the bus as a 1st aid station as well if it's needed. Have it do sort of double duty. Who was that who wanted to know where that old logging road was? I can show them or loan 'em my Topo map that points it out. Gotta look hard though.:cool:

trax

08-31-2007, 01:07 PM

WIth that and DEET probably coming in, I could really use a roll call, have to keep track of who's here and not.

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 01:18 PM

I’m going to go look for some rose hips, dry them, and store most of them for winter. I think rose hip tea is a tastier way to get vitamin C then pin needles. I’ll pick anything ells edible I see along the way. I need a bucket Anyone got one I can use?

trax

08-31-2007, 02:26 PM

WE, VW, FVR, and Sarge....probably have a good idea what I'd do/vote for in most situations. I'm gone for awhile, don't kill me off guys, LOL

First council, I'd request FVR helping out DEET and I with hunting, report on any game activity that RiM and I share. Other than that, carry on tribe, I shall return (has that line been used already?)

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 02:43 PM

VW we have made no indication that we are violent. I am the one that asked to have regular meetings between hunters, I am sharing knowledge. I offer my knowledge of building in the event you would like it in building you perment structures. I have no qualms about being your camp alone as long as you feed me with I am there..

There are to things that will force us to be in contact with each other weather we like it or not. 1. The lake and 2. the way out. I am at the lake and you are between me and the only way out. I would prefer friendly encounters as to aggressive ones. I would think you would agree to this as well.

Your comment on the fence has made us reconsider. Thank you

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 02:59 PM

Ummm where in US are we? How far north? That would give me a better idea of what foods are available and when.

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 03:22 PM

The lake is a mile away to the west of us.
The RIM clan is 2 miles to the north west...on the north side of the lake.
Our retreat is 3 miles to the south west where Trax found a little cave.
We have 3 main fox holes one facing west, one facing north west, and one facing north where this damn bus is...to the east of us is thick brush and hard terrain...and to the south there is nothing for miles but wild.
I am adding a fox hole to the south side in case we need to lay down some suppressing fire while the group retreats...
The main road is 30 miles to the north.
The lake looks like a potato going east west. Probably 1 mile in width and 2 miles long.
A river meets the lake at the north west corner of the lake and flows to the north west.

While a nice description. It does not follow the story line up till now.

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 03:29 PM

Ummm where in US are we? How far north? That would give me a better idea of what foods are available and when.

Anywhere you want say around 45 degrees north. Hilly country.with bluffs and swamps

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 03:54 PM

Description of where we should be based on the beginning of this,

180 miles west to the nearest town, dead end logging road 10 miles long. (Where our trucks are. You are 15 miles north of where my truck is. We are at the lake 15 miles further north on the north side. I will agree to tighten this up for communication purposes, Also the river needs to flow to the south allowing Trax and I the agreed upon meeting place. To the north of me is nothing but wild

This is how the story line has developed and should kept as close as possible to that.

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 04:19 PM

Ok so rose hips aren’t ready quite yet. Are the trees mostly evergreen? That would pervade good cover in winter.

ryaninmichigan

08-31-2007, 04:25 PM

Ok so rose hips aren’t ready quite yet. Are the trees mostly evergreen? That would pervade good cover in winter.

A mix of hard woods and Cedar swamps. stands of pines. here and there

FVR

08-31-2007, 05:08 PM

Back a little early.

Sarge, here are some berries. 3 gal of hack, 2 of blue, and 4 gal of black berries. Notice at the bottom of the pack, there is a small goose, yeh I know but hey. The mallard is a bit larger, nice flock, took them with the bow. Did not want to scare them away.

I found a few spots where someone had been watching us. One spot NE of the camp, guy must have had a spotting scope or something. When they left they did not cover there tripod marks. Def. was not a tripod on a rifle as the person seemed to be sitting.

Trax, saw about 6 does, did not want to shoot them as I figure you have us covered. Hate to see meat wasted.

Came upon those two dead bodies, nasty. critters got to them, the lion did not. Funny, that lion's tracks are all over yet he did not touch the carcass'. I felt bad, rolled them up in a tarp they had, after I found the body parts. Buried them and covered with rocks. Don't want to talk about it.

Agree with RiM, more than one cat. Found a dead dog that had a collar, no tag. Shame, cat got him, you can tell from the swipe and rip.

When you butcher the deer, save the heads. I will take the brains and we can brain tan the hides. If you don't know, I'll show ya how to do it. It's gross but makes good leather.

Also, if someone wants to collect those acorns, if brains gross you out we can tan the hides with the tanin from the acorns. Going to need to make a small pit with water, hardwood coals to soak the hides to get the hair to slip.

FVR

08-31-2007, 05:16 PM

Deet, if you want to meet with RiM fine but that's VW's call.

I need to, tomm. get to my truck. I have olive drab green paint, prob. enough for the top of the bus. Don't have it in me today. I have a few shovels, pick, I brought the ax.

I took the battery out of the truck, turned the gas off, and wired the overhead lights to auto. turn on if someone connects a battery. They won't be able to turn them off unless they disc. the battery.

We need to get some chicken wire. Fish and turtle traps.

FVR

08-31-2007, 05:30 PM

Guard Duty times revised.

2100 to 2400 Vol-West & Nell

2400 to 0200 FVR & Foggy

0200 to 0500 Wareagle & Marscroft

0500 to 0800 Owl-Girl

0800 to 1100 Lumpy

1100 to 1300 Wareagle

1300 to 1600 FVR

1600 to 1900 Trax

1900 to 2100 Sarge

DEET

08-31-2007, 06:48 PM

Sorry so late to reply in the real world I work midnights and sleep all day. Don't take this as arrogance on my part but with all my sniper training I highly doubt you spotted me, however my presence was well known to you when I dropped my peace offering at first light and I made sure that you saw me entering the clearing, don't want the wrong signal to be sent you know. Also my rifle is a FNFAL 308 with custom stock and bipod, it is equipped with a modified 6-24x44mm targeting scope, 200 hundred rounds of ammo. I bring more to the group than hunting and long range hardline diplomacy though. I also know how to trap, skin and tan hides, and am an excellent forager. I also have skills in shelter, and cold weather survival. My camp is on the other side of the ridge if you wish I could be back by 0900 tomorrow with my gear loaded up in my allison. The personal belongings are just some clothes and my three knives as well as a tri hone. I carry a folding shovel and game dressing kit. My first aid kit and compass as well as map of area (hand drawn) and a katydyne water purifier is in my rucksack. I have a tent large enough for two so the woodcutter doesn't have to sleep in the fox hole cursing the cook with the bus anymore;) I also have a compact dynamo powered ham radio which should come in handy. I would like to meet the leader of your clan and discuss whether or not I might join.

wareagle69

08-31-2007, 07:04 PM

please excuse my absence wolf pack, i have found a nice spot to set up a couple hundred yards out, nice observation post although i could use a good spotter any volunteers we will be out of camp more than in just so any other sneaky bast**ds cannot get a true count on us

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 07:45 PM

Also, if someone wants to collect those acorns, if brains gross you out we can tan the hides with the tanin from the acorns. Going to need to make a small pit with water, hardwood coals to soak the hides to get the hair to slip.

FVR I can collect acorns

DEET

08-31-2007, 08:07 PM

Sarge47

08-31-2007, 08:22 PM

RiM, do you have any idea how to draw and post a map of the area from, say, the gas station to the other side of the lake, including the woods where our group is at in between, logging road, etc.? Also can you show why our group is blocking the only way out? :confused: So far we just seem to be coming up with fragmented mental images.

Vol West, can you do the same detailing the camp, and perhaps an idea where everybody is located? I'm going back through the posts and take attendance & inventory along with skills and will post the results later.:rolleyes:

FVR

08-31-2007, 08:26 PM

VW, WE, 0730 I'll be dialed in. You know where.

Sarge, dinner was good, you cook good bird pilgrim. Next week, Peking Duck?

How bout some snapper soup?

Tomm. lets finish the latrines, paint and cover Sarge's bus, and stretch some hides.

Sarge's bus just gives me the creeps, something to do with Alexander Supertramp.

We also need to get you a wood stove in that thing. Any suggestions? Maybe a stone one on the outside and we can open up the side a little. Also need to get it up on blocks, why waste those tires.

Deet, thanks for the invite to the tent, but I will be retrieving my one pole tomm. from the truck.

Wake me for my watch.

lumpy

08-31-2007, 08:26 PM

I don't have any responsibility yet.I'll be happy to help at the observation post.I can dig the latrine,or even bury sarge's bus if need be.

Sarge47

08-31-2007, 08:37 PM

I don't have any responsibility yet.I'll be happy to help at the observation post.I can dig the latrine,or even bury sarge's bus if need be.

If you bury the bus, leave acess into it! While you guys were thinking "Bug-out Bag and fire-arms", I was thinking "re-building a community". After all, this seems to be TEOTWAWKI, right? What, you think we're gonna hide out in itty-bitty pup-tents for the next 20 years? Oh crap, the venison stew is burning and owl girl is out looking for acorns. (mumble-mumble "got enough NUTS in this camp to tan every animal in North America!" mumble-mumble):rolleyes:

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 09:06 PM

FVR will the acorns still work if there green?

nell67

08-31-2007, 09:09 PM

FVR I can collect acorns

I'll go with owl_girl to collect the acorns,she doesnt need to be out alone.Also,I can help sarge clean any small game you guys bring in. Did I hear wild turkey last night or was I dreaming??

Has anyone noticed an area that might do well as a garden spot for next spring??I have some seed for that purpose,also have some thick clear plastic sheeting that I can use to start tomato seed ,a makeshift greenhouse until its warm enough to transplant.
saw some wild asparagus along the treeline that will be good when spring returns also.

Thanks for the gun trax,feel safer knowing it is within easy reach if I need it.i also have a sewing kit and can work on the furs for blankets or clothing.

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 09:20 PM

I'll go with owl_girl to collect the acorns,she doesnt need to be out alone.Also,I can help sarge clean any small game you guys bring in. Did I hear wild turkey last night or was I dreaming??

Has anyone noticed an area that might do well as a garden spot for next spring??I have some seed for that purpose,also have some thick clear plastic sheeting that I can use to start tomato seed ,a makeshift greenhouse until its warm enough to transplant.
saw some wild asparagus along the treeline that will be good when spring returns also.

Thanks for the gun trax,feel safer knowing it is within easy reach if I need it.i also have a sewing kit and can work on the furs for blankets or clothing.
Thanks nell. We still need to find out if the acorns will work if there green. If its still August I don’t think they’ll be fully ripe yet

lumpy

08-31-2007, 09:22 PM

Hey,I don't have anything against the bus.I would prefer sleeping in the bus over a tent or foxhole,especially long term.Our latest intel seems to point to a very long term ****uation.Who's in charge here? VW is the one who mentioned burying it.Is he in charge?Do we have any kind of command structure?
I'm not a carpenter,but I've had interest in cordwood masonry for some time.I believe I could build us a decent dwelling with nothing more than firewood and mud and some extra help.Some scavenged windows with sceens would be a nice addition.

spiritman

08-31-2007, 09:40 PM

just returning from night patrol, i notice that SM has wandered into our camp perfect night for patroling, was nice and cool , just ont the down side of a full moonand clear skies anyhow heres my sitrep

i was coming back in from the west side of camp, lake is to the north there is a camp on the other side of the lake two large rv's young families and children two noisy dogs seem very panicked large white man's fire.interesting enough i came across a small lean to about 4 klicks out to dead bodies looks like they were exposed to the elements hypothermia and some bad mushrooms nearby they only had the clothes on their backs and this thousand dollar knife(sorry couldn't help myself) any how is the coffe warm yet sarge sure could use a biscuit also time for some r/r see ya in a few.

I would ever show up!

spiritman

08-31-2007, 09:55 PM

(Hmmm, note to self, get SM to have a nice long talk with VW as soon as possible!)

What? (A B C D E etc... more letters... post not big enough to be deemed important)

spiritman

08-31-2007, 10:12 PM

Ok...had a little talk with SM...he made me laugh a lot telling me that the punji pits could be used as latrines and therefore increase the probability of infection for anyone falling in...loll

If I ever DID build a pungi pit that IS something I would say!

No pits for me, unless we have some sort of cave that we can winter in. But thats dangerous if there is only one way out.

btw I would probably be in pretty bad shape if I managed to make it alone to where you guys would meet unless it was within 300 miles or so of where I'm at. Be ready with the hospital bus and have a partition ready for the weary wanderer. But maybe VW picked me up on his way who knows.

Sarge47

08-31-2007, 10:27 PM

If I ever DID build a pungi pit that IS something I would say!

No pits for me, unless we have some sort of cave that we can winter in. But thats dangerous if there is only one way out.

btw I would probably be in pretty bad shape if I managed to make it alone to where you guys would meet unless it was within 300 miles or so of where I'm at. Be ready with the hospital bus and have a partition ready for the weary wanderer. But maybe VW picked me up on his way who knows.

Welcome in SM, you weren't weighing in so I did it for you. You mentioned earlier that you wanted something on group survival so here it is! Jump right in! NOTE: Did you bring a knife?:D

FVR

08-31-2007, 10:52 PM

Owl Girl,

Green is fine. We will store them and peel them when we get the chance. Once we peel them, I will take stock of the brains and see if we have enough. Most feel that a critters brains is just enough for that hide, I disagree as I like to treat them two maybe three times.

The acorns that we do not use, we can then boil twice, drain and then pound. We will have a starchy paste that can be used to make biscuts.

If ya'll need another pee shooter, let me know. You can have the 357, I prefer the 308 and a knife.

Bury a bus? Buses are pretty big. My truck has shovels but is not equiped with a dozer. LOL.

Lumpy, I've cut plenty of wood, help yourself to the wood that is still has the bark on it.

spiritman

08-31-2007, 10:55 PM

Welcome in SM, you weren't weighing in so I did it for you. You mentioned earlier that you wanted something on group survival so here it is! Jump right in! NOTE: Did you bring a knife?:D

Yeah been away from internet access so thanks

Of course i brought a knife, 4 actually.
Also some more of my own equipment:
Large capacity pack
Small capacity day pack with 2L water reservoir
Hatchet
Sleeping bag and Gortex Bivoac no tent though
Small emergency kit
A three gallon soft plastic water jug (easy to fill)
1 pot around 4 qts
A .22 cal rifle open sight 500 rnds. It's all i could get a hold of.
300 ft paracord

Out of food though... but I have been eating here and there so I'm not doing bad.

I definitely have the fishing gear covered as well. and we can use those larger tin cans of yours for some tickling in the creek.

Me and Marcraft will go out and set some traps in the morning if he hasn't set enough up already, something he could definitely help me out with.

wareagle69

08-31-2007, 10:57 PM

ok deet saddle up since you also have sniper trianing it makes sense unless volwest wants to send out two, two man teams, also we need to have a counsil is this where we have decided to stay put or are we just riding out the winter?

Sarge47

08-31-2007, 11:03 PM

Yeah been away from internet access so thanks

Of course i brought a knife, 4 actually.
Also some more of my own equipment:
Large capacity pack
Small capacity day pack with 2L water reservoir
Hatchet
Sleeping bag and Gortex Bivoac no tent though
Small emergency kit
A three gallon soft plastic water jug (easy to fill)
1 pot around 4 qts
A .22 cal rifle open sight 500 rnds. It's all i could get a hold of.
300 ft paracord

Out of food though... but I have been eating here and there so I'm not doing bad.

I definitely have the fishing gear covered as well. and we can use those larger tin cans of yours for some tickling in the creek.

Me and Marcraft will go out and set some traps in the morning if he hasn't set enough up already, something he could definitely help me out with.

Check with FVR, Trax, WE, and even VW before going out so that you can co-ordinate with them. An accidental kill would be bad! :eek: BTW, I'm truly impressed with your gear list. What make is your .2 rifle?

spiritman

08-31-2007, 11:13 PM

Check with FVR, Trax, WE, and even VW before going out so that you can co-ordinate with them. An accidental kill would be bad! :eek: BTW, I'm truly impressed with your gear list. What make is your .2 rifle?

Of course I will coordinate with the guys, I already had a chat with VW anyways.

I have no idea what make it is, I'll get back to you on that if i get the chance. It's not a usual item on my list but this is an extreme situation so I figured it would be good to keep handy.

owl_girl

08-31-2007, 11:16 PM

Ok back with 2 gal. bucket of acorns (climbed a few trees) and some thistle roots for Sarge to cook up, or they can be eaten raw. Sarge you can put them in the stew if you like.
Do you need more acorns FVR? I wasn’t sure how much to get.

Nell thanks for getting acorns with me.:D

FVR

08-31-2007, 11:29 PM

Owl Girl,

2 gal is fine. Set them to the side.

I will make up two fleshing beams tomm. and we can get to work.

Sarge, save me a few deer thigh bones, need to make flesh scrapers.

Please do not salt the hides, waste of salt.

FVR

08-31-2007, 11:33 PM

Guard Duty times revised. Again.

2100 to 2400 Vol-West & Nell

2400 to 0200 FVR & Foggy

0200 to 0500 Wareagle & Marscroft

0500 to 0800 Owl-Girl

0800 to 1100 Lumpy

1100 to 1300 Deet

1300 to 1600 Spiritman

1600 to 1900 Trax

1900 to 2100 Sarge

Notify if any changes.

Everyone stands once in a 24 hour period.

spiritman

08-31-2007, 11:42 PM

Guard Duty times revised. Again.

2100 to 2400 Vol-West & Nell

2400 to 0200 FVR & Foggy

0200 to 0500 Wareagle & Marscroft

0500 to 0800 Owl-Girl

0800 to 1100 Lumpy

1100 to 1300 Deet

1300 to 1600 Survivorman

1600 to 1900 Trax

1900 to 2100 Sarge

Notify if any changes.

Everyone stands once in a 24 hour period.

Sounds good, I'm cool with no watch duty if you don't need me to.

wareagle69

08-31-2007, 11:43 PM

i guess while i am in camp i will need to debrief the newcomers or has someone already taken care of that? VW or FVR.

hey fvr notice your standing back in the shadows not to close to the fire wise move any how i noticed the cat tracks also the ones i found seemed to be a couple of days old personally i don't think we will have a problem with him probably went deep bush when the a/o started getting crowded but the bears are another thing. it was a pretty dry summer not much for berries and such. hopefully our food doesn't attract but there are enough ppl here just might deter them, how bout another shot before we both head out, little bit chilly tonight, clear skies might get a bit of frost.

FVR

08-31-2007, 11:47 PM

I think we are going to have to have a sit down.

Hunters / trappers (growing subgroup), ya'll need a squad leader to keep track of hunters out, times out, and areas hunting. Nothing worse than having a kill missed by a buddy's intrusion.

Hunters not out can help with the latrine, the bus, the root cellar, and misc. camp duties.

We need to find an area with good trees to fell for a few structures. I suggest that we do not cut them down from around our camp as that will open us up.

WE or I can do a scout for the trees. Most already downed trees around camp have been taken care of. We have a total of 6 cords of dried, debarked hardwood. We also have about 4.5 cords of debarked hardwood, that need a month or two to be complete, and 2 cords of green barked hardwood.

We will also have another cord of almost seasoned, with bark on that will be available once I move into my tepee. My foxhole is more like a little bomb shelter, LOL. May just want to keep it for storage.

Sarge, tomm., let's get a cord down by your cooking area. I just hate seeing you hobble up and down this 60 yards carrying wood.

wareagle69

08-31-2007, 11:47 PM

must be a type-o SM i'm sure he means you and not survivorman

FVR

08-31-2007, 11:50 PM

Got your cup? When the Crown is gone, have some Turkey for ya.

Corrected.

spiritman

08-31-2007, 11:52 PM

must be a type-o SM i'm sure he means you and not survivorman

I know, just playin. But i thought I saw a mention of SMII or something somewhere, but that may not have been this thread.

DEET

08-31-2007, 11:53 PM

Lets head over to those abandoned trucks I need to collect some parts to make my still. That's right sports fans I know how to build and run a still (I am from West Virginia you know:cool: )

spiritman

08-31-2007, 11:53 PM

Bus+ Dirt = root cellar

FVR

08-31-2007, 11:58 PM

I was figureing on bus and dirt equals bomb shelter. Front door, back door, but you won't find me in it.

Have this little thing about closed spaces underground, my foxhole is just fine but a tin can, no way.

Deet, you speak'n of RiM's trucks? I would not mess with them, don't need no fueding.

Hey, ask them if you see them that if they can locate some chicken wire I will make them and us a few turtle and fish traps.

spiritman

09-01-2007, 12:02 AM

I was figureing on bus and dirt equals bomb shelter. Front door, back door, but you won't find me in it.

It's both at the same time, a stocked bomb shelter. And if we did it thoroughly it would fit everybody.

FVR

09-01-2007, 12:05 AM

Everybody, but me.

I'm hitting the woods hoss.

spiritman

09-01-2007, 12:06 AM

If we get bombed? We aren't a big enough group YET

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 12:09 AM

THANKS about the trucks. and you do not need chicken wire. got some empty cofee cans? let me show you.....

FVR

09-01-2007, 12:11 AM

Sounds good. I think we can dig up some coffee cans, hell the way we are going through it over here. I think Sarge has a couple dozen in his tin cave.

spiritman

09-01-2007, 12:11 AM

THANKS about the trucks. and you do not need chicken wire. got some empty cofee cans? let me show you.....

I did say something about this for fish, but good luck fitting a snapper into a coffee can!

spiritman

09-01-2007, 12:14 AM

How is it that RiM and his family got pushed out of the group?

FVR

09-01-2007, 12:14 AM

I was wondering? have to be a monster coffee can.LOL.

When you go into town, dig up a few tire tubes. I have about 3 large cans of pvc glue and primier that will work for patching tubes and plugging tires.

FVR

09-01-2007, 12:16 AM

They did not get pushed out, but rather chose to go up to the lake.

Works fine as friendlys behind ya, friendlys in front of ya, makes for good security if anything major arises.

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 12:18 AM

I did say something about this for fish, but good luck fitting a snapper into a coffee can!

not the whole snapper, just the head. I am out. i am not supposed to be here anyway.....

FVR

09-01-2007, 12:19 AM

FVR on radio silence, guard duty.

spiritman

09-01-2007, 12:25 AM

not the whole snapper, just the head. I am out. i am not supposed to be here anyway.....

oh ok, I would be glad to learn before you toddle off

DEET

09-01-2007, 01:26 AM

Hey before we bury that bus let me get the parts I need for my still:eek: Hey RIM perhaps we can work out a little bury the hatchet ceremony when I get the first pot of sour mash through that still? Just because civilization has collapsed doesn't mean we can't be civilized right? There's an idea why don't we all get together real neighbor like once we get our food stocked and shelters done. All work and no play blows. Tell you what RIM how about if you let me cull a few geese out of the flocks you got up on that lake (mmmmmmm geese) I'll bring a little nip of some home brew I got in the ruck sack. Any one here play an instrument of some kind nothing soothes the soul like a good ho down. Hey owl girl do you think you can find some sugar beets? I'll give you first nip if you find some:D OK well back to sentry duty I'll work on the still later.

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 09:08 AM

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 11:39 AM

hopefully this works. kind of crappy but oh well

http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z282/ryaninmichigan/?action=view&current=CAMP.jpg

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 11:47 AM

So the guys went to the gas station yesterday. Not much left. There is some gas left imagine that. And the power is on. Got some tea and what ever odds and ends were left. Not a soul in sight they said. So that’s good. Hid the trucks better and got the rest of our stuff.

Our cabin is just about done except for a few details. Put the wood stove from the tent in there. Should keep it nice and toasty. There were some empty drums at the gas station. You guys could use one to build a wood stove. Up to you. Anyway we got it done fairly quickly because we have not really worried about security with an outfit like you guys between us and the road. That being said I would like to loan you 2 of our chains saws and a four wheeler or 2 to use when building your permanent camp.

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 11:50 AM

the loging road is not showing up. it is parelel to the stream to the east of it.

FVR

09-01-2007, 01:30 PM

Don't forget, 6 miles south of camp towards RIM's trucks is my truck. It's about a 1/2 mile west of the trail coming in.

Sarge, I have cached a 12 ga pump, with 100 assort. rounds, buck, slugs, and 6 shot. It located buried in front of the truck, there is a small hickory tree, (good bow tree), 5' straght forward under the rotting pine, about a foot down in a cheap case.

Just did not want to carry it.

Paint is going further than I expected.

Latrines about done.

I have to start on these hides are they are going to be really rank. Let me know how many you want with hair on and hair off.

Oh yeh, anyone have a bar of soap, gonna need it after this hide work is done.

No smartass comments like "oh, that's not the latrine, FVR is 50 yards over there" hahaha.

owl_girl

09-01-2007, 01:41 PM

Oh yeh, anyone have a bar of soap, gonna need it after this hide work is done.

Yea I got a bar of soap and Instant hand sanitizer

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 02:03 PM

ryaninmichigan

09-01-2007, 06:18 PM

Just a thought your camp is 15 miles from me and I can get there in probably less then 30 min. Stop just short and hiking the rest. At the very least the last one standing please set something one fire as I would like to know it is going down and the next poeple into my camp get shot on sight. (besides your crew) Might want to keep and I eye on DEET. I met him at the meeting place. Shared some fish and talked shop. Let trax know we have agreed to leave a hidden Ammo box which we can leave messages for each other about game, the goings on, and next meeting plans. I think it will take the mil. a while to even know we are here. The guys saw nothing and no one on teh way to and from the gas station. I think the mil. has already swept through..

FVR

09-01-2007, 07:15 PM

Guard Duty times revised. Again.

2100 to 2400 Trax and WE

2400 to 0200 FVR & Foggy

0200 to 0500 SM and VW

0500 to 0800 Owl-Girl and Nell

0800 to 1100 Lumpy

1100 to 1300 Deet

1300 to 1600 Spiritman

1600 to 1900 Marscroft

1900 to 2100 Sarge After dinner.

FVR

09-01-2007, 07:25 PM

VW,

No, I did not touch the corpe's. Wrapped bandanna around my nose and mouth as the place stunk. I carry nitrile gloves in my pack for cleaning and dressing game, and burying dead people.

I will keep in check with my health. If I notice anything out of the ordinary, I will just leave a note, then up and leave. No good byes.

Now we need to find out about that goose and mallard I brought into camp yesterday. The goose was small, but looked healthy. The flocks, both goose and mallards looked fine feeding in the shallows.

Ask RiM to keep an eye on the flocks up there at the lake. I don't expect a problem as the mallards don't migrate and the geese up there seem to be hanging around.

May want to hold off on anymore birds.

WE, may want to do a little sneak preview on that RV he mentioned a few days ago. Eyeball from a distance.

FVR

09-01-2007, 07:40 PM

As ya'll have seen, picked up the tepee today. If'n the ladies want their own housing, they can have it. With the rest of the paint, and cover it should be very concealed.

Sarge, if you don't want that shotgun, may just want to leave it there. I almost forgot about it when leaving the truck. Use to stick it under the seat. Well, we can leave it for emerg. sit. if needed.

We need to have a sit down. If for some reason we are attacked, we need two rear exit points and a rendezvous point, a fare piece away. At that point we need to have a cache of guns, ammo, food, and water.

We all need to agree, that if we are emerg. exiting out of our camp, and we "know" we are being tailed, or even think we are, DON'T GO STRAIGHT TO THE RENDEZVOUS SITE!

I suck at booby traps, anyone good at them?

Whatever we do, we need to let RiM and his group know. This is paramount as we don't want any friendly kills.

Sarge47

09-01-2007, 08:01 PM

might i sudjest you take one of those bus tires and put it wherever your fall back point is. It can be lit when you are in real trouble. We will see it and bring firepower. It is in our best intrest you all survive and if they came from the road the might not be expecting extra AR fire from the woods..

Has anybody here ever handled a bus tire before? They're tall & heavy, around 100 lbs. and held down with some really large Lug nuts...about 9 of 'em. They're 22 ply which means you can drive them till the treads gone, re-grove them and drive a whole lot more. This ain't yer Granny's Buick, OK? It takes two mechanics with a really long super heavy-duty floor jack just to change them...good luck, I'll be makin' coffee.:rolleyes:

DEET

09-01-2007, 08:29 PM

I recommend we build an algonquin (sp?) style long house for ease of building compared to strength and it's easy to keep warm. Also I'll keep my FAL up in the birds nest, also if it's okay with VW I'd prefer to have the birds nest if a fire fight ensues, I feel I can better protect the group from there. Need to sit down with everyone and review proper handling and use of our fire arms, if I go down someone needs to be able to take my position in long range diplomacy. VW I feel fine no cough or anything, also given the state we are in I won't be building the still it's too easy to smell it and find our camp. I'll adjust the modulator on my dynamo powered ham radio to match the frequency of the walkies, we'll use that for the base radio since it has a longer range than the walkies and it's a little heavier that will free up one of the walkies. If noone minds I'd like to take some parts from the bus and the trucks to make 2 medium range tarnsmitter/recievers. One for our camp and one for RIMs. If the SHTF we can communicate with RIM without any visible or audible signal, should help his response time to us considerably. Hey RIM does anyone in your party know morris code? By the way my civilian job is an electronics tech so I'm pretty good at playing with the radios. We're gonna have to hold off on the ho down for now Rim, maybe once all this settles down a bit. What kind of booby traps do we want? Anti personnel or signaling I'm good at both.

lumpy

09-01-2007, 09:00 PM

I think the alg. longhouse might be a good idea.I reconsidered the cordwood dwelling.It sounded good at the moment,but would require a very time consuming foundation.Especially way up here in the U.P..
I don't have much of a personal arsenal.A Marlin semi-auto .22(1000 rounds),a 12 guage autoloader(100 rounds),and a snub-nose revolver(50rounds).Can't deer hunt w/rifle in my State,so I never purchased one.

DEET

09-01-2007, 09:35 PM

I think we need to designate everyone a position and job in case we need to "cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war". Those who don't have live fire experience need to be trained up so we don't have any problems. Owl girl I understand your aversion to having to kill someone so if you don't mind we will need a johnny on the spot so to speak, do you have any first aid training? VW if we can spare someone in the nest with me I could use a good spotter. Also if we do have to withdrawal to our secondary camp I will stay behind and slow the advance whoever my spotter is should go with the group so as to minimalize the risk of losing two men instead of one. Odds are we won't be facing an organized fighting force so I should be able to pick them off at will. I will meet up at the camp the day after our withdrawal at sunset. Also about the night vision problem, I recomend we set trip wires tied to a switch controling the headlights we scavenge from all the trucks and the bus. we'll set the lights to face out and tie them into one of the batteries from the vehicle, when the wire is tripped it will turn on the lights effectively blinding the enemy and illuminating them at the same time.

I'll start work right away on the long house, do we have anyone to spare to give me a hand with it?

owl_girl

09-01-2007, 11:08 PM

Owl girl I understand your aversion to having to kill someone so if you don't mind we will need a johnny on the spot so to speak, do you have any first aid training?
Other then being shown the heimlich maneuver a couple times…no. But if anyone can teach me I’ll learn.

FVR

09-01-2007, 11:13 PM

Deet,

Yeh, I'll help ya with the longhouse, late morning. I've found a way to bring my truck up to the NW side of camp, it'll be parked about 50 yards behind and SW of my foxhole position. If'n it does not rain, I feel rain, but then I've been known to be wrong.

Sarge must be a crazy man driving that bus.

As I said earlier, the truck is equiped with;

F-250 4x4, 3 tool boxes fully loaded, gen. air comp., 100 extra gal of gas.
One pole tent
One gal. green paint (it's a white truck)
and whatever else I can heave into the bed.

I fig. it's going to take me about 4 to 5 hours to make that 6 miles. I will be leaving camp 0530 and will be checking out with Owl Girl and Nell, explaining to them my route. That way I won't get shot, not too much worried about that anyway.

If it rains then I'll do it in a few days. Don't want to chance getting stuck, it may be a 4x4, but it's kind of heavy.

I do not expect to have problems as the route is fairly clear, may have to move a few downed trees but nothing major.

Plan on moving over to the NE side of camp to my second lookout point and starting a another foxhole, set up with stacked wood like my current area.

All in all, I'm beat. Wake me up for my watch.

Sarge47

09-01-2007, 11:22 PM

Okay,before I hit the unpopular view here let me say that as someone who has worked with "Developmentally Disabled people" That I have learned 1st aid and CPR as well as rescue breathing. I also own a copy of the "Special Forces Medical Handbook" & have more than enough 1st aid equipment to go around.

That being said we need to take a step back and look at this scenario a bit. Pandemic? Now we have something that sounds like it's right out of the Stephen King novel; "The Stand". If we were in a real situation as VW described where are our families? Trax (I believe it was) said something about having a wife who was the best part of his life. What about kids? That changes a lot of stuff. Now we're starting to look like a "Home-Grown Militia" instead of the survival minded people we started out as. What about Nell's husband, the diabetic? What about Owl-Girl who's young and may be looking for a "significant other"? If she finds one here she might get pregnant, then what? What about a family member who'd rather be anywhere but here? We need to think "community", not warfare! If we were truly into a "pandemic sceneario" wouldn't we all have loaded up vehicles full of stuff? Not just me?:confused:

owl_girl

09-01-2007, 11:33 PM

The bird flew dos not kill everyone it infects so I don’t think in would be quite this severe.

DEET

09-01-2007, 11:44 PM

owl_girl

09-02-2007, 12:09 AM

The purpose of this role play (as far as I know) is to see how we’d do in a group survival situation, obviously every group is deferent but if we were in a situation with similar people it looks like we’d do pretty good and be quite organized. Its difficult to say for sure what would happen in real life but I think we’d do ok. What do you guys think?

Sarge47

09-02-2007, 12:18 AM

I think this is starting to get a little weird. To be completely honest I wouldn't be anywhere near this place because I live in WV. Besides I would be with my girlfreind and our two boys taking care of them. I don't think a pandemic would cause this kind of scenerio anyways. I don't know I was never any good at role playing stuff anyways. Sarges comments ahve really got me thinking and the way this scenerio is playing out would never happen for me because I would never leave my loved ones to fend for themselves. Darnit Sarge you ruined my Red Dawn movie remake:D

Sorry for ruining that for you, DEET, but when I was going through the inventory it hit me that we were carrying a whole lot of firepower and very little else. Besides that, one of the hunters bagged a game bird, what if it had the bird Flu? The more I thought about this the more I realized that the original intent here was applying survival skills, using survival kits/gear and coming through the best we could and getting rescued. Now we're in "Stephen King Armegedon!" Owl-Girl's remarks about "becoming a combat scenario as opposed to a survival one" also raised a red-flag. We're not "Les & Bear" anymore, just "Rambo". :rolleyes:

DEET

09-02-2007, 03:30 AM

Well let's face it this is all a fantasy world thing anyway because unless we were actually in the woods doing this we can't gleam anything from it. Grant it we can still pretend that it's TEOTWAWKI and still get valuable results but not over the internet. So let's make a decision do we play this out as a remake of Red Dawn or do we try to be realistic. In my opinion we can't be realistic because there is absolutely no realism to it. I have to agree with sarge and owl girl it has gotten a little to militaristic in a circle the wagons kind of way. We're talking about posting watches and fire lines and things of that sort (notice I said we I'm guilty too) I guess because it's more exciting to make a fantasy world full of good guys and bad guys instead of one where we are all simply coexisting and making it. The reason for this is probably because most of us are very well trained and skilled at surviving so it doesn't seem like such an exciting thing for a fantasy

spiritman

09-02-2007, 05:20 AM

All that makes me wonder what you would've 'noted' about me if I had been around to put more into this thread.

Also wondering what someone who could analyze like you do would say about you.

Too bad you think it's run it's course, I like this conversation a lot

nell67

09-02-2007, 06:57 AM

personally,I have enjoyed this thread very much,it does not matter to me what the outside scenerio is that "put us into this group survival mode" its what happens IN the group.

I can honestly say that I learned enough to know that if and when the unthinkable happens,I would feel much safer being in this situation with the people on this forum,of course I had already made this assumption earlier,but your "actions" during this scenerio confimed that.

You all were able to put aside past differences of opinion,and work together as a team,and as we all know there is no "I" in team,working together you had already found food,shelter set up a workable schedule for hunting and protecting your home base and the people on your team.

Fog_Harbor

09-02-2007, 07:01 AM

Hide my head in shame as the thread goes sideways... Again.

wareagle69

09-02-2007, 07:11 AM

well i commend you VW
you hit it pretty much on the head for me at least. war comes from the first three letters of my last name the eagle comes from death from above several reasons 6'4" paratrooper/sniper.

there has been allot of death and destruction in my life, yes you are correct i do prefer being alone did you notice i did not post much during this scenario i did not feel comfortable in the group although i enjoyed immensely everyones posts and where they saw themselves in this group and as you say VW i learned more about ppl also, i think in the real world that FVR and i would be friends (i have only two my wife and someone else that has proven himself to me in combat) thanks for the entertainment pp

on another note maybe some of you will have seen a little bit of what you might need to think about in a shtf scenario as for the flu killing off millions have you not been paying attention look at the 1918 flu 50 million you could multiply that by 10 this time 3 waves of the flu every two to three weeks this is what brought me to this sight, if it were about mere survival i learned that in the rangers and through my own experience and yes maybe out of kinship at a distance although i like most of you i can turn off the computer at will. you are a smart man VW, so even if you guys are offended by what he has said look closer..

always be prepared..

wareagle69

09-02-2007, 07:13 AM

.

You all were able to put aside past differences of opinion,and work together as a team,and as we all know there is no "I" in team,working together you had already found food,shelter set up a workable schedule for hunting and protecting your home base and the people on your team.

there is no I in team but there is ME

Sarge47

09-02-2007, 08:08 AM

VW: Yeah, right, whatever. Hmm, nice couch dude.:D

Nell: The Teamwork thing worked well, true, but it would have turned ugly later when people got to know each other better.

Wareagle: Yes you felt good about the whole thing because you were around other military types and used what you knew best. We had a "best-case" scenario as wwe we wern't burdened with injured, sick, spouses and children, jealousy, as well as the person who hated where they were and made it hard on everybody else. Another thought, everybody got to bring all their favorite equipment into the scenario. When I brought the "bus" in it was more of a "reality check" as there would have been no way that I could have got it in there. I was waiting for someone to call me on it but no one did.

Foggy: Don't fret dude, I felt safe with you watching my back.

RiM: I think we should have joined you at the lake, there's safety in numbers and with the additional firepower we would have stood a better chance. You gave us a good scenario though, dude, thanks! ;)

ryaninmichigan

09-02-2007, 08:51 AM

This was all make believe nothing more. I chose to exclude women and children only to ease writing here is my synapses

LUMPY: How did you know I based this on the geography of the U.P? I guess because I live in Michigan. In reality the cabin and firepower is already there 2 hour ride down a one lane logging road. Three wood bridges that would be cut as I passed.

Sarge: I was interested in starting a community also. Not a military operation. That is why you notice my camp never had watches, and we got more done because of it.

Trax: nice hunting with you. We have a bond in hunting that we both understand each other.

WE: I have nothing for you. You stopped in got ruffled be me and left.

FVR: you added some good things to keep it going.

VW: you did not join me because you know with 4 of us we would eventually take power. And your description of me, I will have to think about that one, wait no I wont. You are wrong.

In the end 269 posts is not bad. So here we go let’s kill it.

Me and my clan have just engaged the national guard at the end of the logging road. One of us is dead. We have stripped guardsmen of a M60 and we are hightailing it to camp. And we will be coming your way. There are about 150 of them. We have the M60 and 2 AR15s with 60 round clips. Everything else is at the lake.

wareagle69

09-02-2007, 09:07 AM

FVR

09-02-2007, 09:41 AM

Sarge, the truck is filled with gas, you have an extra 60 gal. in the back. Load up Owl Girl and Nell, the shotgun is back in with the rounds. There is 5 gal. of water and all granola bars. Good Luck.

VW, WE, Lumpy, Deet, Trax, SM, Here is your time to leave.

WE, take your wife and go, I will stay.

150 heavily armed soldiers against....................

As the Lakota use to say "it's a good day to die."

Cough, cough, damnit!

ryaninmichigan

09-02-2007, 10:06 AM

it's posts like that is the reason why you are an idiot you think that you are the most dangerous man in the woods well i call bullsh** i have read enough of your posts to realize that you are a wanna be and unrealistic and generally full of it, you can post what ever you like but you have already revealed yourself you limited yourself by building a permanent structure and a fence around it my god welcome to four funerals what an idiot.

edit can't stand it. Give me one example of bull****.

wareagle69

09-02-2007, 10:41 AM

I am not going to digress into a pissing match with you. I have learned enough about you to not take most of what you say seriuosly, you have posted a few interesting tips and points and given me things to ponder but i stand by my assesment of your value to me.

that is all...

ryaninmichigan

09-02-2007, 10:47 AM

owl_girl

09-02-2007, 03:40 PM

I liked it to

ryaninmichigan

09-02-2007, 04:06 PM

[QUOTE=volwest;6291]

RIM,
Congrats on the scenario...
But, a community and not a military operation ? what the **** is that ?
You got more done ? lollll
That's extremely subjective yes ?

You got different things done...and i am sorry to burst your bubbles here, but this is AMERICA...In a SHTF scenario, most people and their mothers will have a gun...you flee, you hide, you watch for predators...this is what we did, except that we ARE military minds, and we applied technics suited for the situation based on our experiences...if you wanted to create a little community, i have addresses to really nice sites where people will be glad to hug you and start planting sprouts with you in a little fort they have made to protect themselves from the world's eyes.

QUOTE]

I stand corected, you are right you guys got a lot done, just different things.

ryaninmichigan

09-02-2007, 04:10 PM

it's posts like that is the reason why you are an idiot you think that you are the most dangerous man in the woods well i call bullsh** i have read enough of your posts to realize that you are a wanna be and unrealistic and generally full of it, you can post what ever you like but you have already revealed yourself you limited yourself by building a permanent structure and a fence around it my god welcome to four funerals what an idiot.

I never said I was the most dangerous man in the woods. I said "the most dangerous THING in the woods is me and my rifle." This is not such and uncommon statement. Please hit the Ignore button now..

Sarge47

09-02-2007, 07:33 PM

owl_girl

09-02-2007, 08:01 PM

This was only a fantasy scenario and it's already turning ugly! War-Eagle's on the warpath, RiM's circling the wagons, VW's psyco-analyzing the Wolf-pack, yet, over the course of all these threads has made several errors that I couldn't help but notice. VW, take off the rosey shades, we're already at each other's throats and it wasn't even real! I rest my case. (And BTW Dr VW., Flu is spelled "Flu", not "flew". Gotcha!):rolleyes:
At each others throats? The average family fights harder then this. There’s going to be a few disagreements and debates. No one said there wouldn’t be. But will you let those disagreements tear you apart that’s what counts. How will you react to those disagreements because there going to happen. Look at the ones in the forum, the forum still stands doesn’t it?

Sarge47

09-02-2007, 08:09 PM

At each others throats? The average family fights harder then this. There’s going to be a few disagreements and debates. No one said there wouldn’t be. But will you let those disagreements tear you apart that’s what counts. How will you react to those disagreements because there going to happen. Look at the ones in the forum, the forum still stands doesn’t it?

The Forum still stands, but then we're not living with each other either. We can shut our pc's off and go watch tv if we don't like what's being said. The saying "Familiarity breeds contempt" is as true as it's counterpart: "Absence makes the heart grow fonder. RiM was the guy who came up with the scenario, he's a member of the Wolf-Pack. The answer that his family wasn.t isn't really a good one as neither is WE's wife or any other family member related to one of us. They would have been welcomed in and learned from us. Yet we have dis-trust shown to one of our own. :cool:

owl_girl

09-02-2007, 08:28 PM

I don’t think we’d tear each other apart. There would be some big fights but it would heal. Other people have survived as groups why couldn’t we? You act as if you think its unlikely for people to come together and be able to survive a group structure all because of the arguments that would arise. Do you think that in order for a group to work it would have to be absent of arguments and disagreements? That’s not realistic, there is no such group

owl_girl

09-02-2007, 09:27 PM

RiM was the guy who came up with the scenario, he's a member of the Wolf-Pack. The answer that his family wasn.t isn't really a good one as neither is WE's wife or any other family member related to one of us. They would have been welcomed in and learned from us. Yet we have dis-trust shown to one of our own. :cool:
RiM wasn’t treated as a wolf pack member in the scenario because in the scenario he was a stranger. However he was gaining trust and we were starting to have more regular and friendly contact with him. But most of the group did not want to move to the lake.

ryaninmichigan

09-02-2007, 10:57 PM

RiM wasn’t treated as a wolf pack member in the scenario because in the scenario he was a stranger. However he was gaining trust and we were starting to have more regular and friendly contact with him. But most of the group did not want to move to the lake.

exactly. see the #1 post. I am done with this

Sarge47

09-02-2007, 11:20 PM

Well "Wolf-Pack", this is the end of the trail for me. Owl-Girl, what I'm referring to is human nature, the same nature that I feel is now being turned on me. VW, I don't know if you're who you say you are, or what you claim to be, but things aren't adding up. I've come to believe that you're a "control freak" who keeps changing things in the thread when they're not going you're way. I think you haven't all the education you claim, never been in the military, to the extent you claim, if at all. And I think you might even be one of the teen-agers you accused RiM of sounding like. I detest bullies, even intellegent ones. I joined this site to learn more about Survival, not reams & reams of "pysco-babble". This "Senile", smothering, father-figure is taking the "bus" outta here. Bye!:cool:

eddiec

09-02-2007, 11:43 PM

Alright, come on, guys... Let's not get with all the fighting and the gnashing of the teeth. We all need to get along if the pack is going to survive(?). Let's get over this, and go back to what we're all good at. Whatever that is, I don't know. But let's get back to it, GOSH DARNNIT! Sorry, I didn't mean to yell. Let's all take a deep breath, count backwards from 10, and get back into the meaningful discussions that led me to put this forum into my favorites section...

FVR

09-02-2007, 11:50 PM

They're big boys and will get over it.

Sooner or later.

owl_girl

09-03-2007, 02:12 PM

Volwest your analogy of Sarge was incorrect. There’s been people in my life that I feel smothered by but Sarge isn’t one of them.

owl_girl

09-03-2007, 03:07 PM

I know you didn’t claim to be correct, I didn’t say you did so why is that an issue? I was simply letting you know you were incorrect and you saying you didn’t claim to be correct sounds a little passive aggressive to me.
However I do think that if you your self felt smothered by Sage you should have said you did and not have said people do because I don’t.

And I do value what you bring to the forum. I certainly didn’t say you weren’t bringing anything to the forum.

nell67

09-03-2007, 03:17 PM

volwest,

I value your outlook,or opion on subjects on the forum ,becuase you give me another way to look at what I thought I already knew.

wareagle69

09-03-2007, 04:59 PM

like i stated earlier if what volwest post offends you. may be you need to look a little closer, isn't the saying truth hurts. although too analytical for my tastes sometimes i think that VW brings an important element to this forum, the psychological aspect of survival is the fundamental aspect of survival in my opinion.

owl_girl

09-03-2007, 09:44 PM

Wareagle he said people feel smothered by Sarge and I was saying I don’t feel that way. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable statement.

Volwest I don’t expect everything you says to be correct, and I’m going to tell you when I don’t think your correct. It’s not a matter of being emotional.

ryaninmichigan

09-03-2007, 11:08 PM

ryaninmichigan

09-04-2007, 10:00 AM

[QUOTE=volwest;4737]Alright...you guys are going too fast for me.

Let's talk about this Alice pack a little bit...
How heavy is it ? How many liters ? No bladder ?
External frame is not my cup of tea, but it has advantages for sure...$50 is not that cheap but Alice packs are pretty reliable. I wonder what the others think about it...
Let's wait a little on the pack...
QUOTE]

You don't know what an alice pack is?????????

ryaninmichigan

09-04-2007, 10:05 AM

I am making you leave ?
lolllll

Are you going to slam the door too ?

Owl_girl,
I never felt smothered by Sarge...and i am glad you didn't either...my statement was a generalized one, and we do not constitute a generality.
I thought my answer to you saying that i was incorrect was a apropos, but if you see a passive aggressive response, it was not meant to be.
Just a clarification on my points of views. Just like i took this answer from you : "I certainly didn’t say you weren’t bringing anything to the forum."

But then again, maybe you consider your own clarification as passive aggressive...

So...in light of my notes on Sarge making too many waves, i will remove them from my posts...

Thank you for your input.

You are not making me leave. You are just annoying and I have doubts about any useful information have to bring to the table. So please respond in at least 4 paragraphs that will have nothing to do with this so I will quit reading after the first couple of sentences.

Sarge47

09-04-2007, 11:47 AM

You are not making me leave. You are just annoying and I have doubts about any useful information have to bring to the table. So please respond in at least 4 paragraphs that will have nothing to do with this so I will quit reading after the first couple of sentences.

RiM, don't let this "numpty" run you off, he's not worth it, and doesn't run this forum! I'm asking you to stay and, if you would, qualify that remark you made that got WE riled up. As a member of this pack you have the right to be heard!:cool: Besides, FVR is correct, as Survivalists we need to have thick skins, right?:confused:

Sarge47

09-04-2007, 11:53 AM

Are you sure you want to play that game RIM ?

As a Military man you should not only know what the A.L.I.C.E. system is , but also the S.P.E.A.R. system, & The M.O.L.L.E. system as well? RiM asked a legitimate question, don't be condescending.

ryaninmichigan

09-04-2007, 12:03 PM

Sarge47

09-04-2007, 12:24 PM

My skin is thick enough. When I said “I am the most dangerous thing in the woods” It was not meant as a statement of violence. The fact is a good man and his rifle need not worry about anything in the woods. That is all.

I would find that true to a certain extent, there are some things anybody in the woods might have to fear, correct!:confused:

FVR

09-04-2007, 01:54 PM

Here is a little info. on the:

All-Purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment aka ALICE pack.

Don't ever call it a backpack recruit or I will kick your ***.

All-Purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment (ALICE) introduced in 1974 was made up of components for two types of load: the "fighting load" and the "existence load". The ALICE system was designed for use in all environments, whether hot, temperate, cold-wet or even cold-dry arctic conditions. It replaced all prior systems for both the U.S.

There are and were two models. The trad. ALICE pack able to carry 50lbs of gear. The second was named the Rucksack, it was also an ALICE pack but carried 70 plus lbs.

How do I know this, I carried both. On reg. humps the ALICE was packed. On LRRP's the Rucksack was used along with what we called the arsepack. The arsepack was what we used when we dropped our gear and made the final approach to recon the area.

Prior to 1974, ALICE pack was not in existance, the US military used what was called the M-1956 lightweight load carrying equipment pack or they carried the The M1967 Individual Load Carrying Equipment (called Modernized Load Carrying Equipment MLCE).

By the end of 1975, the M-1956 and M-1967 were completely phased out and the ALICE was used. All three packs were seen in useafter 1974 until the end of the Vietnam war.

Now the French did not use ALICE packs. They used Rucksacks that were sized in liters. Example, 35, 40. 50 litre waterproof bags. Granite, they probably know what they are, they just were not mil. issues.

Now in Europe I believe they use something called a Bergen? But then in the US we now use the ACU MOdular Lightweight Load-carrying Equipment (MOLLE) II Assault Pack.

Enough pack info for ya?

Had to do a little research on the SPEAR.

The S.P.E.A.R. SYSTEM™ (Spontaneous Protection Enabling Accelerated Response) is a scientifically researched & medically reviewed personal defense measure that exploits the body’s natural responses to violence and danger. This survival mechanism, dubbed: Startle-Flinch Response has been scientifically integrated into a series of neuro-muscular drills that teaches individuals how to convert their instinctive reactions into protective and combative tactics.

Hmmmm, may need to read up on this as this is def. after my time. I still believe in the chewing on the throat theory.

ryaninmichigan

09-04-2007, 02:44 PM

Sarge47

09-04-2007, 05:46 PM

Not sure what you are asking. As far as wild animals? I would fear lack of water, injury, things out of my control but as far as animals where I am nope I fear no animal if properly prepared. I am not going to hunt bears with a 10/22 for instance……………

I hear you RiM, but is fear the right term? If you check back a few posts I believe it was WE or someone who mentioned that heavy caliber rounds have been known to bounce off Moose antlers when they have their heads down and are charging. Hunters have been killed by bears that they have put several rounds into. Who was it that said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"?
Here's an interesting fact. How do you know when a hunter is in a state of panic? When he throws away his pack and his RIFLE! Panic is the thing to think about. Keeping a level head no matter what, wouldn't you agree?:confused:

ryaninmichigan

09-04-2007, 06:13 PM

Yep panic and another word that fits well is respect. I do not fear them but I do respect their power. not to woudl be foolish

Sarge47

09-04-2007, 08:16 PM

I'll be what i want to be..."sarge".
His question is just here to stir the ****...and i answered it 3 times already.

But i think FVR answered that one for me.
(thanks)

Never heard of "Bergen"...sounds german though.

No Problemo Freddie.:rolleyes:

FVR

09-04-2007, 10:09 PM

VW,

British.

The word backpack was coined in the United States in the 1910s. Knapsack and packsack were used before; they now occur mainly as regionalisms in North America. The word rucksack is a German loanword mainly used in the UK: 'der Rücken' means 'the back' (the part of the body) in German. Alternative names include Haversack, and Bergen (from the manufacturer's name Bergans, used for a rucksack supported by an external frame, usually associated with the British Armed Forces).

Sarge47

09-04-2007, 10:13 PM

FVR

09-04-2007, 10:16 PM

Ahh, okay.

WCBill

02-08-2014, 11:08 PM

I have seen the movie more than once... it is a very interesting scenario that most people would rather not consider. It shows how people have to first get a realistic view of their situtation, gain awareness of their resources, commit to a course of action, follow the course to the end after many necessary adaptations most of which involve knucklehead humane foibles.

I will watch again the next time I have chance, if for no other reason than I like Jimmy Stuart... a great, good and faithful American.

hunter63

02-09-2014, 12:14 PM

Hunter63, saying Hey and Welcome......
FWIW
You know this discussion took place 7 years ago, right?........
Not that the timing make things less valid, it's just that most everyone involved has moved on.........

Wildthang

02-10-2014, 01:46 PM

wildlearner

02-11-2014, 07:03 PM

I read through most of this thread and have one thing to say. I'll be out in the woods not to far away, but far enough that you won't find me. If you are outnumbered and under attack, I will come help. Other than that, stay away from me because you guys would drive me crazy:smartass:

I agree to all of that but about you guys driving me crazy, I am already been driven crazy from my 4 siblings. I would rather be on my own or with only my closest friends.

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01-11-2026, 05:47 AM

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