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commoguy
07-11-2008, 02:58 PM
seems jet fuel prices are taking an extreme toll on the airlines. they have asked congress to help and about 15,000 jobs are going to be cut from the airlines that are still in bussiness.

Sourdough
07-11-2008, 03:12 PM
People need to start getting a grip on the idea that only the very-very-very rich will fly. Everyone else takes the bus. No more cheap flying, we need to have airfares quadruple. We don't need to fly. Buy a horse, be happy.

commoguy
07-11-2008, 03:28 PM
People need to start getting a grip on the idea that only the very-very-very rich will fly. Everyone else takes the bus. No more cheap flying, we need to have airfares quadruple. We don't need to fly. Buy a horse, be happy.

this is true im wondering how much impact all those layoffs are going to have on our weak economy. im not to worried about the dow right now because the stock market is always up and down. i am keeping my eye on it though

crashdive123
07-11-2008, 03:55 PM
Airlines have rarely charged enough to offset the cost of operations. Cargo has been their money maker. It's time for them to start charging a person the real cost of transport from point a to b. They should probably charge by the pound (man, am I in trouble if that happens). If you can't operate a business in the black, it is not the responsibility of the citizens to bail it out.

trax
07-11-2008, 04:25 PM
I never again want to see a thread titled "airlines in trouble" and the name underneath the title being crashdive. That's just not right.

RobertRogers
07-11-2008, 05:34 PM
Also, a percentage of people are fed up with the treatment they get at airports - the searches, the hassle from cops, taking off your shoes(!!!!) etc ever since 911. The heck with that. Though relatively small, these hundreds of thousands of people who have stopped flying have made a difference to the bottom line of airlines.

Ridge Wolf
07-11-2008, 06:55 PM
I have a daughter that is a flight attendant. She is quitting in August and coming home to go back to college. Good for her and that is what I have always wanted for her, she'll major in something else. I think what's been going on with the airlines is part of the reason she is leaving it and she is getting out of it just at the right time too.

What Hopeak said about the horse... Much more of these price increases on fuel and we'll all be walkin' to the store with the little red wagon in tow.

crashdive123
07-11-2008, 07:22 PM
Just remember, not all radio flyers are created equal. http://images.trucktrend.com/autoshows/events/112_0608_jam42z+custom_radio_flyer_wagon+side_view .jpg

Rick
07-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Frankly, 15,000 is a drop in the bucket. The industry I was in counted them in hundreds of thousands and we saw those numbers churn out for well over a decade. The company I was with dropped about 65000 alone. I wonder what the total employee loss from the airline industry is for the last decade. I'm sure 15,000 would be a drop for them, too. Change is inevitable. You either adapt or get left behind.

That being said, a lot of businesses depend on the airlines. Everything from shipping freight and consumer products to business travel. Those costs will continue to be passed along at every facet.

tacmedic
07-11-2008, 08:44 PM
I think a lot of airlines in the US are starting to see some heavy competition from smaller independent regional providers that offer the same service for a much more fair price. Such as Jet Blue, and Allegiant Air. It has been this way in Europe for years with services like Ryan Air and Easyjet dominating the intracontinental flights there, not the big boys. Sure, many of these smaller airlines have luggage and weight restrictions and don't offer in flight movies/food. But they get you from point A to point B in a safe and efficient manner.

rebel
07-12-2008, 07:08 AM
If you want cheap tickets, the U.S. airlines will have to be government subsidized like the other countries do for their airlines. The other countries help with aircraft, fuel, etc. It makes for an uneven playing field for the U.S. airlines to make a profit.

As for regional efficiency: Is it efficient to purchase a jet that costs about the same for one that carries 44 and one that carries 119? What about the fuel expenditure for the 44 vs. 119? How about the airspace? Each jet takes up the same amount of protected airspace. The result is delay and holding. All for frequency. In the next 5 years you will see alot of RJ's parked in the desert.

crashdive123
07-12-2008, 08:28 AM
Why should it be cheap to fly on a commercial passenger jet? Are we entitled to cheap air fares? Any business deserves to run a profit, and in the event that they are unable to do so, they should not be in business.

Rick
07-12-2008, 10:16 AM
Herb Kelleher said when he started Southwest he didn't want to fly you from point A to point B cheaper than some other airline. He wanted to do it cheaper than you could drive there. That might still hold true regardless of how much they charge........

commoguy
07-12-2008, 01:43 PM
Frankly, 15,000 is a drop in the bucket. The industry I was in counted them in hundreds of thousands and we saw those numbers churn out for well over a decade. The company I was with dropped about 65000 alone. I wonder what the total employee loss from the airline industry is for the last decade. I'm sure 15,000 would be a drop for them, too. Change is inevitable. You either adapt or get left behind.

That being said, a lot of businesses depend on the airlines. Everything from shipping freight and consumer products to business travel. Those costs will continue to be passed along at every facet.

well i wouldnt doubt there are bigger industries but we rely on planes for alot. theres also the fact that 8 airline companies have gone out of bussiness alone this year.

crashdive123
07-12-2008, 02:27 PM
Of those 8 airlines that have gone out of business - were any bought out by other airlines? What of their assets - are those planes in service with another carrier?

The brick and mortar building that I do my banking in has had 3 different names on it in the last 17 years. Two of those are out of business. Recently it was rumored that the third was being bought out, but they just put a new CEO in place. It may still be bought out, but who knows. The point is - my money is still there and doing fine, just like when an airline is bought out - people still get to fly.

commoguy
07-12-2008, 03:42 PM
Of those 8 airlines that have gone out of business - were any bought out by other airlines? What of their assets - are those planes in service with another carrier?

The brick and mortar building that I do my banking in has had 3 different names on it in the last 17 years. Two of those are out of business. Recently it was rumored that the third was being bought out, but they just put a new CEO in place. It may still be bought out, but who knows. The point is - my money is still there and doing fine, just like when an airline is bought out - people still get to fly.

well if you count the ones that got bought out then it would bring the total to 11 this info i got from msnbc.

Sam
07-13-2008, 09:57 PM
Why should it be cheap to fly on a commercial passenger jet? Are we entitled to cheap air fares? Any business deserves to run a profit, and in the event that they are unable to do so, they should not be in business.

So the government should be out of business? They don't run in the black. lol

crashdive123
07-13-2008, 10:21 PM
So the government should be out of business? They don't run in the black. lol

Large parts of it that are not constitutionaly mandated should be:eek:, but that's a discussion for another forum.:D

trax
07-14-2008, 11:20 AM
So the government should be out of business? They don't run in the black. lol

Governments shoud be in business? I think not.

pgvoutdoors
09-14-2008, 12:53 PM
I have always appreciates the opportunity to fly when I can, that is until this past July. As some of you know, I took a Boy Scout crew to New Mexico recently. We flew from Cleveland, OH to Albuquerque, NM on Continental Airlines. They have a primary hub here in Cleveland. We paid $540.00 per person. When we checked in, each of us with one backpack apiece, the head of customer service told two of our boys that their luggage was over-sized. This required an additional fee of $100.00 each. The amount that the largest overage was; the size of an rubik's cube! The packs were well under the 50 lb. limit. To say the least I will NOT fly Continental again!

bulrush
09-15-2008, 08:59 AM
I am taking a business trip next week and was looking for things to read on the airplane. I wanted to bring a copy of "Backwoodsman Magazine" but decided against it. The magazine is about doing things yourself, and the way they did things 100 years ago. Since it has pictures of knives I figured I would be labeled a terrorist or an unstable person. So I will have to read something more mundane on the plane.

crashdive123
09-15-2008, 11:36 AM
Ahhhh go for it. Last I heard, nobody hijacked a plane with the picture of a knife.

bulrush
09-16-2008, 11:49 AM
Ahhhh go for it. Last I heard, nobody hijacked a plane with the picture of a knife.

My suspicion is, I don't think TSA shares your opinion. :)

trax
09-16-2008, 05:43 PM
bulrush, if they know you've been hanging out on this forum you could be labeled a terrorist or unstable person anyway.

crashdive123
09-16-2008, 09:03 PM
Just tell them that you slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.....maybe they'll let you fly the plane.

erunkiswldrnssurvival
09-16-2008, 09:16 PM
As dangerous as planes are , they should almost give away the tickets. If our Government had a public flight transportation system the cost would be small per person.
and commerce and trade would increase.

crashdive123
09-16-2008, 09:25 PM
As dangerous as planes are , they should almost give away the tickets. If our Government had a public flight transportation system the cost would be small per person.
and commerce and trade would increase.

You can't be serious. First - the government should stay as far away from interfering with private industry as much as possible. Second - Why should anybody be entitled to free or almost free airfare? Third - statistically planes are not that dangerous.

Gray Wolf
09-16-2008, 11:00 PM
Oh please explain...... Why should anybody be entitled to free or almost free airfare? Planes are safer than you driving in your car. I think you ate the wrong mushrooms!

trax
09-17-2008, 04:23 PM
Just tell them that you slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.....maybe they'll let you fly the plane.

No, I'm good thanks, there's something to be said for the back seat, never seen a plane back into a mountain.

BH206L3
11-18-2008, 05:34 PM
I have been a professional pilot for some 33 years now. I fly both airplanes and helicopters. Yea the airlines are going thru some tough times right now and its nothing new. Ever since the invention of the airplane its been a place to loose money. Then there is Net Jets and the other fractionals, they just keep growing and growing. The Fractionals took the business traveler from the airlines, they guys that paid full fare, short booking travel. I was stuck once in the Western Pacific on an Island called Guadalcannal. Marines know the place, I few from there back to the states. I when to West to Figi first then to hawaii then St Louis then Hartford, on TWA, yea they are gone now. I when home First Class, the ticket cost me 9000 solomon island dollars. by the time the exchanges was done by American Express, it final bill came to 865 dollars. That was in 96. Cheap then too. At the time I thought I would be into it for at least 4K or that is what they guy said it would be when I charged the thing. The thing is that from the start of airtravel to present there is only 4 years when the airlines were in the black and made money. Air travel started in the early 1920's Most Nations have one Flag Carrrier and they shore them up. But in my life time I have seen Eastern, Pan AM, TWA, Tran's Craib, Mark Air, Aloha, Value Jet, People's Express ( flew for them) Pilgrim, Air North, Allaganey, Go Heli trans( flew for them) Tundra Copters ( flew for them) Rocky Mountain Helicopters ( Flew for them) American Helicopters ( flew for them)Mua Kea Helicopters ( Flew for them) And a whole bunch more I have not though of. They come and go, some stay in business good sound business model, Ie FedEx ( feeder pilot for them) UPS ( flew Beech 18 for them) And others like Laker and People just go belly up. South West has been able to weather the storm better than most, the CEO bought ten years worth of fuel contracts, when jet a could be had for 1.25 a gallon. I was on a short contract last summer, and he had his fuel, and was paying half the going rate 3 a gallon vs 6 a gallon because he took a long contract for fuel when he was flush with money, it kept him afloat for the last two years. And you should see better prices along the board with the crude oil price collapse. Brent Sea is in the 48 dollar range and New York its hovering around 56 a barrel, the its going to go a bit lower too. So much for hearing myself type.

Rick
11-18-2008, 09:14 PM
The best advice I can give any airlines is not to hire BH206L3. Once they do, they seem to go under? Coincidence? You be the judge.

Hey, just joking, just a little raw humor there BH206L3, over.