Obscure Gun Facts

[Rick]

We have a lot of folks on here that enjoy weapons of all sorts and many that have some excellent training and experience so I thought I would give you all a fun challenge. I'll offer up some questions on some obscure weapons facts and let you answer them. I won't make them too tough but I won't make them too easy, either.

I'll start you off with a fairly easy one to get you started.

What year was the first Remington rifle made? (Hint: It was before the company was founded!)

[Beowulf65]

1816 I think, maybe wrong.

[Beowulf65]

What was the 1st automatic weapon?

[Rick]

You are correct! In 1816 young Eliphalet Remington II made his first rifle at his father's forge in Ilion Gulch, New York (a flintlock). That fall, he entered a shooting contest. Although he only won second place in the contest, he won a number of orders for his rifle. The rest, as they say, is history.

Good job, Beo!

Hey! My game. My questions.

[Beowulf65]

Thank you.

[Rick]

I'll take obscure gun facts for 50, Alex.

This is a two part question.

Samuel Colt is well known for his famous Colt .45 Peacemaker. What did he invent that revolutionized weapons and what gave him the idea?

[Beowulf65]

was it the revolving-breach loading, folding trigger firearm?

[Beowulf65]

I do know that while reading the compendium of knowledge he discovered that Robert Fulton and other inventors had accomplished things that were said to be impossible until they were done and he decided he would be an inventor and create the impossible gun although I don't know what the impossible gun is.
Could be this, if not I'm baffled and gotta do research.

[Rick]

You are correct on the revolving cylinder. It turned handguns from single-shot devices into multi-shot machines that were far more useful and deadly in combat. However, you missed on the inspiration so I'll leave it open for a while and see if anyone knows.

What inspired Samuel Colt to develop the cylinder design in handguns?

[Beowulf65]

It it when he was 16 years old and sailing on a ship to India he carved a model of a single-barrelled pistol with automatically revolving chambers. No no it was inspired by his observations of the ship's wheel during this voyage.... Ha ha this is fun.

[Rick]

Right again. Doing good.

I'll take Obscure Gun Facts for $75, Alex.

Another two part question, sports fans.

George Luger invented the famous Luger pistol of German fame. What is the real name of the pistol and from where does it derive it's real name?

[Beowulf65]

1. The Parabellum-Pistole (Pistol Parabellum) and is designated the Luger P08 pistol
2. The word Parabellum is a noun of the the Latin saying si vis pacem, para bellum, meaning If you want peace, prepare for war.

[Beowulf65]

For $500 What was the 1st automatic weapon? Any takers?

[Rick]

The Maxim invented by Hiram Maxim. You stole one of my questions. And just for that, tell me two other weapons related inventions my buddy Hiram came up with.

[Beowulf65]

The first autoamtic weapon was the Gattling Gun, so you are wrong.

[Beowulf65]

He invented the mousetrap and the "Captive Flying Machine" amusement ride. He tried as his father did to make a helo but the efforts failed, he made a huge plae but the flight was aborted. If thats no it I'm busted on answers.

[Rick]

No I'm not. The Gatling Gun was not automatic. You did say automatic. The Gatling gun was hand cranked. The Maxim was the first automatic machine gun.

You are also wrong on the two other inventions of Mr. Maxim. Note that I said weapons related inventions. There are two that have been in universal use around the world.

[trax]

Hey Rick, some amusement rides could qualify as weapons, suicide machines getting on them. Ever seen the upkeep on some of those things? Scary, man.

[Beowulf65]

The Maxim gun was the first self-powered machine gun, not the first automatic weapon.
The Gatling gun was the first "machine gun" because, while it did not automatically reload under its own power, it was capable of firing continuously. The first Gatling gun relied on a hand crank for external power. Some time later, Gatling-type weapons diverted a fraction of gas from the chamber to spin the rotating barrels.
Per the U.S. Military... thank you very much.
And I said in my last post I didn't know but now I will look it on the net.

[Rick]

Way back when I was union and worked outside a bunch of the guys wanted to go to Six Flags one week-end. I said not me brother. Everyone started in on my case about not going. I said, "Look, you guys are going up there and pay good money to ride on those contraptions. If riding them was part of your job you'd file a grievance claiming they were unsafe." No one went, which I thought was pretty funny.

Back to the questions. What two weapons related inventions did Hiram Maxim invent besides the Maxim Machine Gun? Both have been in universal use around the world.

[Beowulf65]

It could be explosives and maybe the motor vehicle but I'm not sure.

[Rick]

Oooh. So close on that first one. I've give it to you.

Cordite. Handsome Hiram invented cordite. The other invention was the silencer. Devious little devil, huh?

[Beowulf65]

Really cool facts though.

[Rick]

On the Gatling vs. Maxim Guns:

"The first automatic machine gun was the recoil-operated Maxim gun, which used linked (belt) ammunition, as well as a single barrel and automatic loading."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun

We are, as they say, at an impasse. :D


I'll take Obscure Gun Facts for $100, Alex.

Beo told us the Gatling Gun was the first machine gun. It had an astounding rate of fire of 200 rounds per minute. Why did Dr. Gatling bother inventing the machine gun?

[Beowulf65]

"Beo told us the Gatling Gun was the first machine gun."

No Beo said the gattling gun was the first automatic weapon, there is a difference.

Now Gattling made the gattling gun because he saw more soldiers coming back from the civil war due to illness instead of bullets, so he made the gattling gun and I think thats kinda sick.

[Rick]

Read above. I agreed to an impasse.

He was a medical doctor and thought the machine gun would reduce the number of soldiers needed in the field and therefore save lives. Man, was he wrong!

I'll take obscure gun facts for $125, Alex.

What invention by Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson revolutionized weapons? No, it's not the .357 or the .44 magnum.

[Beowulf65]

They formed a partnership to develop a self-contained metallic-cartridge handgun. Their efforts not only produced the first of many weapons with the famed Smith & Wesson name but also the small .22 caliber known simply as S & W Model 1 First Issue Revolver, which quickly revolutionized the firearms industry.

[Beowulf65]

Being a cop and firearms instructor as well as a gun nut this kinda ain't fair. Where are hopeak and the other gun gods?

[Rick]

You got another. They invented the self-contained, waterproof cartridge or bullet!

I'll take Obscure Gun Facts for $150, Alex.

Mikhail Kalashnikov invented the AK-47 (like who doesn't know that?). He is also a WWII veteran. What was his occupation (MOS) during the war?

[canid]

for popularization of cartridge ammo/firearms and repeating actions, i'd say the volcanic repeating pistol.

[canid]

too slow i guess. you know you're slow when three posts in a forum this size come through while you're typing.

[Rick]

I only have a couple more then someone else can take over.

[canid]

armoured vehicle mechanic?

[Beowulf65]

He was a tank drive/mechanic

[Beowulf65]

How did the Bazooka get its name.

[canid]

it was named for it's resemblance to an instrument, by the same name used by a popular musician who's name i don't remember because it happened in the triassic erra...

[Beowulf65]

You got it baby!
Now for $200.00 we all know the .410 shotgun shell, what was it before it was the .410 gauge shotgun shell?

[canid]

bob burns, sorry; early jurassic.

[Rick]

Kalashinikov started as tank driver/mechanic and achieved the rank of Tank Commander (some Soviet form of a sergeant). He invented the AK-47 while recovering from an illness.

Bob Burns was the bazooka player.

My final question. I'll take Obscure Gun Facts for $175, Alex.

Uziel Gal invented the Uzi. Why did he put the magazine inside the pistol grip?

[Rick]

.36 guage.

[canid]

it is not, and was never a .410 guage beo, .410 is a bore.

[canid]

the specifications for the bore are comparable with .45 colt, but i think that was accidental, though there are .45 pistols which can fire .410 shells.

[Beowulf65]

The .410 was originally a rifle caliber, the .444 Marlin.

On the Uzi I am stummped other than the distinct profile and the grip mounted saftey. Hmmmm you stumped me on this Rick, thinking thinking thinking.

[Beowulf65]

The genesis of the .410 does not coincide with the heyday of shotgun design, which occurred from circa 1850 to 1870. It wasn't until about 1900 that the cartridge is making its appearance in catalogs and the proof houses of England. No one today knows who invented it. There is a good amount of speculation that the .410 was originally a rifle caliber, the .444 Marlin. This is probably so, due to the rather recent discovery of older "rook rifles" that were originally rifles that were converted to shotgun use.

[canid]

nice background beo. thanks.

[Beowulf65]

What was the first lever action rifle?

[Rick]

Nope. Not on the Uzi. Keep guessing.

You got me on the .410. You are right, of course. Here's a bit more detail on it.

"In Europe it is sometimes called the 12mm, which is an inaccurate designation as a .410 bore has an actual diameter of approximately 10.4mm by metric measure. If the .410 had been named in the traditional fashion, by the number of lead balls .41 inch in diameter needed to make one pound, it would be about a 67-68 gauge. Many years ago it was also called the 36 gauge..."

Source: http://www.chuckhawks.com/410bore.htm

[Beowulf65]

Crap I cant find anything on the uzi grip!!!

[Beowulf65]

Is it because it allows the barrel to be moved far back into the receiver and the magazine to be housed in the pistol grip, allowing for a heavier, slower-firing bolt in a shorter, better-balanced weapon.

[Rick]

Well, all that is certainly true. But the reason he placed the magazine inside the grip was to make it easier to load in the dark. The rest just followed because of that.

[Rick]

Someone else can take over if they choose. That's my run of questions. I'll have to make up some more.

[Beowulf65]

damn so simply and genius.

[Beowulf65]

What was the first lever action rifle?

[Rick]

Just in case you're playing a word game...The Spencer was the first LEVER action rifle. The Henry used the bolt.

[Beowulf65]

You got it.
The first significant lever-action design was the Spencer repeating rifle, a magazine-fed lever-operated breech-loading rifle designed by Christopher Spencer in 1860. It was fed from a removable seven-round tube magazine, enabling the rounds to be fired one after another, and which, when emptied, could be exchanged for another. Over 20,000 were made, and it was adopted by the United States and used during the American Civil War, marking the first adoption of a removable-magazine-fed infantry-and-cavalry rifle by any country.

Now What was the first bayonet?

[Beowulf65]

Come on people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol...
Try this on: who invented the first gun?

[canid]

you make it sound like a simple question.

[Beowulf65]

The evolution of the bayonet can be traced to an accident. In the mid-17th century irregular military conflicts of rural France, the peasants of the Southern French town of Bayonne, who were Basques, having run out of powder and shot, rammed their long-bladed hunting knives into the muzzles of their primitive muskets to fashion impromptu spears and, by necessity, created a secondary weapon that was to influence Western European infantry tactics well into the early 20th century. The weapon was introduced into the French army by General Jean Martinet.

[Beowulf65]

Naw I'm a huge history buff on ancient military and firearms and general warfare, from the greeks and romans on up.
My favorite is the Templar Knights and then the French & indian War.

[Beowulf65]

While Americans, Brits, and French like to claim they made the first firearms the didn't they just improved on the designs,
The Chinese had the first handguns, fire-spears and handcannons, technically known as guns with a canon lock. Da Vinci designed an "Automatic Igniting Device for Firearms", a more sophisticated kind of matchlock. Employing the earlier Tang Dynasty era discovery of high-nitrate gunpowder, the earliest developments of the gun barrel and the projectile-fire cannon were found in Song Dynasty China. The first art depiction of the Chinese 'fire-lance' (a combination of a temporary-fire flamethrower and gun) was from a Buddhist mural painting of Dunhuang, dated circa 950 AD. These 'fire-lances' were widespread in use by the early 12th century, featuring hollowed bamboo poles as tubes to fire sand particles (to blind and choke), lead pellets, bits of sharp metal and pottery shards, and finally large gunpowder-propelled arrows. Eventually, perishable bamboo was replaced with hollow tubes of cast-iron, and so too did the terminology of this new weapon change, from 'fire-spear' ('huo qiang') to 'fire-tube' ('huo tong'). This ancestor to the gun was dually complimented by the ancestor to the cannon, what the Chinese referred since the 13th century as the 'multiple bullets magazine erupter' ('bai zu lian zhu pao'), a tube of bronze or cast-iron that was filled with about 100 lead balls. The Chinese also discovered the explosive potential of packing hollowed cannonball shells with gunpowder. Written later around 1350 in the Huo Long Jing of Jiao Yu, this manuscript recorded an earlier Song-era cast iron cannon known as the 'flying-cloud thunderclap eruptor'."

[Beowulf65]

Who made the first working rifle scope?
While other scopes were out there most were blurry at best and added to much weight or did not line up the to the shot, in 1880, August Fiedler the forestry commissioner of Prince Reuss, managed to build the first telescopic sight that really did work.

[Beowulf65]

What is the Puckle Gun?
Puckle Gun - 1718
In 1718, James Puckle of London, England, demonstrated his new invention, the "Puckle Gun," a tripod-mounted, single-barreled flintlock gun fitted with a multishot revolving cylinder. This weapon fired nine shots per minute at a time when the standard soldier's musket could be loaded and fired but three times per minute. Puckle demonstrated two versions of the basic design. One weapon, intended for use against Christian enemies, fired conventional round bullets, while the second variant, designed to be used against the Muslim Turks, fired square bullets, which were believed to cause more severe and painful wounds than spherical projectiles

[Beowulf65]

Who started the NRA?
Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871.

[Beowulf65]

What is Palliser shot?
Palliser shot invented by Sir William Palliser and hence its name.
Major Palliser's shot, approved October 21, 1867 was an improvement over the ordinary elongated shot of the time. It was adopted for the larger types of Rifled muzzle loading guns rifled on the Woolwich principal (with three rifling grooves). Palliser shot in many calibers stayed in service in the armour piercing role until phased out of service (British) in 1909 for naval and fortresses, and land service 1921.
Palliser shot was manufactured from round billets of cast iron. The points were heated and quick chilled to harden the metal. At times there were defects that lead to cracking in the projectiles but these were overcome with time. Bronze studs were installed into the outside of the projectile so as to engage the rifling grooves in the gun barrel. The base had a hollow pocket but was not filled with powder or explosive. This hole at the base was threaded to accept a copper gas check. This prevented propellant gasses from blowing around the projectile providing obturation as the driving band had yet to be perfected. Later designs did away with the studs on the projectile body with the gas checks being set with grooves to impart spin to the projectile.
At the Battle of Angamos the Chilean battleships fired 20 250 pound-Palliser gunshots, against the Huascar, with devastating results. It was the first time that such piercing shells were used in actual combat.

[Beowulf65]

Did you know that the Winchester .300 magnum has the same amount of muzzle velocity at 1000 yards as a .44 magnum at point blank range.

[Rick]

Whoa there buckaroo. You sort of missed the point on this little game. You ask the question and someone else has to answer it. It's no fun for us watching you play by yourself.

I was so tempted to word that differently but I'll keep it PG.

[trax]

Someone tell me the name of a rifle first produced in Russia in 1889-90 that fired 7.62 x54mm? This is not for prize money this is for a gentleman who just came by my office and asked me. He seemed to know everything about it except the name. He also said that somewhere between '90 and 1900 about 250,000 of them were produced in the US. Anyone?

Never mind, found it.

[canid]

that cartridge was developed in 1891 for the Mosin-Nagant rifle.

sorry, didn't see your edit.

[Sam]

You got another. They invented the self-contained, waterproof cartridge or bullet!

I'll take Obscure Gun Facts for $150, Alex.

Mikhail Kalashnikov invented the AK-47 (like who doesn't know that?). He is also a WWII veteran. What was his occupation (MOS) during the war?

Tank commander

[klkak]

The genesis of the .410 does not coincide with the heyday of shotgun design, which occurred from circa 1850 to 1870. It wasn't until about 1900 that the cartridge is making its appearance in catalogs and the proof houses of England. No one today knows who invented it. There is a good amount of speculation that the .410 was originally a rifle caliber, the .444 Marlin. This is probably so, due to the rather recent discovery of older "rook rifles" that were originally rifles that were converted to shotgun use.

Wikipedia says that the .444 marlin was designed in 1964 by Marlin firearms and Remington arms.:confused:

[FVR]

Who and what does J. Hanquet have to do with Sam Colt, dated 1853?

[Rick]

He signed a letter to the Liege Gun Trade that stated the conditions of how the Colt could be manufactured in Belgium.

[FVR]

Rick, you're on top.

So you know who Albert and Paul are, eh?

[crashdive123]

The first rifle, which was developed in the 15th century and was easier to load and more accurate than the crossbow was called?_________________

[Rick]

Albert and Paul Hanquet? Centaure Revolvers. Cousins I think. My dad was in Belium during the war and sent back several items from there.

You might be interested in this:

http://www.1960nma.org/

[Rick]

The first rifle, which was developed in the 15th century and was easier to load and more accurate than the crossbow was called?_________________

You and Beo and your word games. There was no rifle during the 15th century. There were unrifled muskets. Rifles (rifled twists in the barrel) didn't come along until 19th century.

[crashdive123]

I stand corrected. Like its successor, the musket, it is a smoothbore firearm, but it is lighter and easier to carry. It is a forerunner of the rifle and other longarm firearms. And it would be????

[Rick]

Matchlock? I'm trying to think of the name of an early weapon. Blunderbus? I know that isn't right but I'm brain dead at the moment. Can't think of the blasted name but it sounds similar I know.

EDIT: Donderbus. Blunderbuss was right. That's the English name. Donderbus is the Dutch name.

[crashdive123]

It does have the .......bus in it, but not the blunder.

[Rick]

I did an edit above. Donderbus?

[crashdive123]

Negative....

[Rick]

Swiss Landsknecht Handgun or European Handgun? I know that's not a ...bus.

[crashdive123]

Keep looking (gosh, I hope I haven't screwed this up)

[Rick]

I pulled the last one I know out of the bottom of the barrel. I know there were a lot of big guns at that time but as for shoulder arms, the Matchlock, Donderbus or the Handgun are the only ones I know of in that time frame. Anyone else?

[crashdive123]

I'll send it to you via PM in case there are other takers.

[FVR]

Rick,

Ya found me out. I know all about them.

http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/Berts002e.jpg

[Rick]

Oh, yea!! I've been in love with those every since I was a kid. I think those are about the coolest handgun ever!!!!!!

[crashdive123]

That is an awesome handgun Frank. Clint certainly helped in the modern popularity of em.

[FVR]

Thanks.

It's a sweet shooter, I got it in a trade. Guy did not know what he had, I did not know what he had till the gent from the website Rick posted contacted me.

I've gotten rid of all my cap n balls except for this one, just can't part with it. It was found in an old shed. The guy found it, soaked it in kerosene for a week, then cleaned it up and started shooting it. For an old gun, it sure shoots nice.

[nell67]

Arquebus???????????

[crashdive123]

Ding, ding, ding, ding.....you got it Nell.

[canid]

arquebus is probably it nell. at any rate, it is a firearm for which that is an accurate description.

[RBB]

You got it.
The first significant lever-action design was the Spencer repeating rifle, a magazine-fed lever-operated breech-loading rifle designed by Christopher Spencer in 1860. It was fed from a removable seven-round tube magazine, enabling the rounds to be fired one after another, and which, when emptied, could be exchanged for another. Over 20,000 were made, and it was adopted by the United States and used during the American Civil War, marking the first adoption of a removable-magazine-fed infantry-and-cavalry rifle by any country.

Now What was the first bayonet?

Significant? Definition please. Volcanic lever action rifle was invented in 1854. It was significant in that it was the fore-runner of the Winchester lever action rifle.

Henry rifle also appeared in 1860 (like the Spencer).

[Rick]

arguebus was a new on me. I had to look it up. I much prefer the name hackbut. But then, that's just me.:D

[trax]

that cartridge was developed in 1891 for the Mosin-Nagant rifle.

sorry, didn't see your edit.

There was an "also ran" developed in Russia called the Dugarov, (around the turn of the 20th century) which I found by googling Mosin-Nagent actually, it was what the fella was looking for. He's got some funny looking ammunition apparently and wasn't too sure about using it, but I found the ammunition online for him too, so he's going out to try it.

[Sam]

There was an "also ran" developed in Russia called the Dugarov, (around the turn of the 20th century) which I found by googling Mosin-Nagent actually, it was what the fella was looking for. He's got some funny looking ammunition apparently and wasn't too sure about using it, but I found the ammunition online for him too, so he's going out to try it.

sounds like a productive day at work. lol

[trax]

sounds like a productive day at work. lol

Actually, it's one of the few times that what I do here on the forum and what I do for a living coincided because this was an elderly Metis gentleman who still hunts for his family's dinner table and his concerns are part of the service my organization addresses, so yeah it worked out pretty cool.

I really shouldn't let work interfere with my time here, I know, but sometimes they're just so demanding:rolleyes: