The Ship is Starting to Turn

[Rick]

New home sales up in April.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/05/27/ap5050329.html

[rebel]

I hope the turn rate is better than what they had on the Titanic.

[GVan]

April is traditionally the beginning off the summer residential migrations. Let us just hope and ???? What's that "P" word?!?? Oh yea pace.

[Rick]

How fortunate for me that only your end of the boat is sinking.:D

[crashdive123]

Did quite a bit of driving today to a conference. I was amused by the news coverage of increase in new home sales. Various reports went something like this. "New home sales were up over 3% blah, blah, blah." The blah, blah, blah was to inform the listeners that life still sucked and you better not get too happy about good news. Got to love an objective, unbiased news report.

[RobertRogers]

Hope springs eternal

[BraggSurvivor]

Consumer confidence sunk to a 16-year low in May, according to the Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index published Tuesday.

The monthly index now stands at 57.2, down from 62.8 in April.

"Weakening business and job conditions coupled with growing pessimism about the short-term future have further depleted consumers' confidence in the overall state of the economy," says Lynn Franco, director of The Conference Board Consumer Research Center. "Consumers' inflation expectations, fueled by increasing prices at the pump, are now at an all-time high and are likely to rise further in the months ahead. As for the short-term outlook, the Expectations Index suggests little likelihood of a turnaround in the immediate months ahead."

Damaged consumer confidence is seen as an indication of poor prospects for spending. Consumer spending accounts for two-thirds of the nation's economic activity.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2008/05/26/daily9.html

[Teotwawki]

Two thoughts:

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Optimistic survivalists - is that an oxymoron?

Just ordered a fill-up on our 500Gallon kerosene tank. $4.40 a gallon and expected to rise as winter approaches (not that too many are thinking about winter right now).

[BraggSurvivor]

Two thoughts:

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Optimistic survivalists - is that an oxymoron?

Just ordered a fill-up on our 500Gallon kerosene tank. $4.40 a gallon and expected to rise as winter approaches (not that too many are thinking about winter right now).

Kerosene or diesel?

Why kerosene?

[Teotwawki]

Why kerosene?

We use wood, propane and kerosene to heat. Kerosene is for two monitors. I'm also hoping to find a generator that will run on kerosene. When the SHTF we will abandon the use of the monitors and use the kerosene just for the generator.

[BraggSurvivor]

Just a suggestion, kerosene IMO is too expensive and just is a cleaner version of diesel. Diesel will burn just fine in what ever you do or use.

[Chicago Dan]

I am not surprised at the slight rise in sales.
Builders are taking large cuts in the asking price around here trying to recoup their investment(cash outlay) and get out from under loans and the accumulating interest.
I have noticed a few construction sites that have shut down. One was in the process of excavation for the basement/foundation. A few days later they stopped digging and let it sit for a couple months before filling in the hole again. They are probably waiting out the situation with a cleared lot rather than pay higher taxes on a partial construction or completed building that will not sell.
This whole situation should lead to a nice tight little spiral.
I just hope someone remembers to jiggle the handle when its done.
I hate wasting water.

[BraggSurvivor]

Teotwawki, technically you can burn any petroleum product you can pump through a hose. I regularily burn 20 wt, hydraulic oil. ATF and even synthetic hydraulic oil on my old '02 3500 Cummins farm truck. I have an abundant supply of the used stuff available. I have also installed a filter upstream of the switching valve to protect my system from any dirt that may get into the tank and I only fill my front tank with lube oil. Get the engine to running temperature on regular diesel then hit the switch.

I also do not notice any difference in running lube oil. There is no smoke, odor and my mileage is the same as on diesel.

[BraggSurvivor]

Back to Ricks post:

For the most part, sales keep falling. Sales of existing single family homes tumbled 20 percent during the first four months of the year from a year earlier and are running at their lowest levels since 1998. Sales of new homes have fallen 42 percent over the last year. The Commerce Department reported Tuesday that sales increased 3.3 percent in April from March, when sales tumbled 11 percent, although the increase largely reflected a statistical revision to the earlier figures.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/27/business/usecon.php?page=1

Sales of new homes fall 42 %

__________________________________________________ ______________

“U.S. sales of newly constructed single-family homes rose 3.3 percent in April to a 526,000 annual rate but they were down 42 percent from a year ago, which was the largest year-over-year drop in nearly 27 years, Commerce Department data on Tuesday showed.”

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/index.html

largest year-over-year drop in nearly 27 years

[wareagle69]

sure glad i live in a town where 95% of the worlds most needed metals are coming out of the ground

[BraggSurvivor]

sure glad i live in a town where 95% of the worlds most needed metals are coming out of the ground

Hey WE, did you know that 103% of the silver mined in the world is being consumed yearly. Shortfall every year my friend. I think your new job at the mines would be safe. :)

[Rick]

Didn't your last post on new home sales = my first post. Don't tell me we agreed!?

Why try to convince me the world is ending? I just keep watching my stocks appreciate and eating BBQ. Might even start looking for some land. It's so cheap and all.

[wareagle69]

Hey WE, did you know that 103% of the silver mined in the world is being consumed yearly. Shortfall every year my friend. I think your new job at the mines would be safe. :)

hhmmm(scratches his head) 103% please explain

[Rick]

I would say we're using more than we mine. My guess is, it's all going to Bragg's house.:D

[BraggSurvivor]

Didn't your last post on new home sales = my first post. Don't tell me we agreed!?

Why try to convince me the world is ending? I just keep watching my stocks appreciate and eating BBQ. Might even start looking for some land. It's so cheap and all.

I just calls it like I sees it. JMO

This slow down or recession if you prefer , is not your fathers recession , it's more like your grand father's Great Depression . This is a demographic demand slow down , and it's a G7 thing , not an American thing . The signs can be seen all through the G7 countries now , the boom from the boomer generation throughout the G7 countries is now winding down in earnest .

Authors and economist demographers like Harry S. Dent , David K. Foot and Daniel Stoffman , warned us a decade ago this was coming . All of them predicted 2009 as the beginning of the next Great Depression , we are presently on the eve of that now and the signs are every where you look .

It will be interesting to see all of this unfold . What will happen to the boomer generation who hired illegal immigrants over their own children ? What will happen to this same generation , that sent their children's jobs to places like China , Indonesia , Vietnam etc etc ? What will happen to this generation that pays it's children half as much as they earn ? Will they expect their children to pay their Social Security benefits , like they paid for their parents ? On half the wages , or no job at all ?

Maybe Sheeple Rick is right, maybe Prophet Bragg? Does it really matter? Preparation for anything disaster needs to be done regardless, and now!

As I,ve stated before on here Rick, I sincerely hope you are 110% right and I have been doing all this for nothing. I don't want to see ANYONE go through what I think is inevitably going to happen. :(

[Teotwawki]

BraggSurvivor: And I foolishly thought I might be able to take up the mantle of resident pessimist! I agree - we are on the verge of a world wide depression+++. I don't want to go through what you and I (also) think is inevitable. Nor do I want anyone else to have to go through it. Most people are going to be in serious trouble.

I don't have any romantic notions about how it is going to be. Even for the few of us who have been prepping, it is going to be rough.

I think we are a day late and a dollar short on fixin' things.

[LeaveThisLifeGuy]

Didn't your last post on new home sales = my first post. Don't tell me we agreed!?

Why try to convince me the world is ending? I just keep watching my stocks appreciate and eating BBQ. Might even start looking for some land. It's so cheap and all.

my sentiments exactly, except my bbq sucks and my portfolio is non-existent:D

to all the "sky is falling" folks, what exactly is your idea of "what's coming"? an example please. now i'm young (and quite possibly naive), but from what I see, we can expect really expensive gas, a lot of lost jobs, some inflation, lower wages to afford more jobs, and an all around depletion of luxurious living...

we're just skimmin the fat;)

[crashdive123]

I know that my personal observations are purely anecdotal. One of the things that I do is inspect homes for wood destroying organisms prior to a closing. About two years that end off my business dropped of dramatically. In the past 5 – 6 months I have seen if fairly significant increase in the demand for inspections. Some of the high end homes that were foreclosed on are being picked up rather quickly. Many of the investors that “flipped” homes are now picking them up and after their rehab are renting them rather than sell them. I know it’s just a small slice of the market, but I believe things are picking up.

[Teotwawki]

LeaveThisLifeGuy: You said: 'to all the "sky is falling" folks, what exactly is your idea of "what's coming"? an example please.'

First, if I had a real handle on "what's coming" I could be really prepared...

Second, I do think we are dealing with a house of cards and a near perfect storm of problems. Here are some examples of what I am talking about - not my opinion but from various "experts" and news sources... Where I don't cite a source I'll put it in brackets [ ].

We are facing a global food crisis.

"And for the first time in history, say experts, the impact is spreading from the developing to the developed world."

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2104849.0.2008_the_year_of_global_food _crisis.php

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1717572,00.html

"Over the past few years the prices of wheat, corn, rice and other basic foodstuffs have doubled or tripled, with much of the increase taking place just in the last few months."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/07/opinion/07krugman.html

[I will add to this that crop seeds are genetically modified to be unable to germinate. So unless you are saving heirloom seeds for your garden... your crops are going to fail after a year or two.]

"Soaring prices are causing hunger around the world."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/13/AR2008031303347.html

We are facing a global energy crisis.

"Prime Minister Gordon Brown warned Wednesday that the world faced a "great oil shock" that could only be addressed by urgent action on a global scale."

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIBCDbINPdJyo4_EQ4dpvkNOkvdA

[We are currently below $130 a barrel - will that rise or fall. Probably rise.]

"Last week, legendary oilman and investor Boone Pickens predicted crude oil prices will crest $150 a barrel this year. He also noted that he has placed a massive order for wind turbines from General Electric.

Meanwhile, Goldman Sachs analyst Arjun N. Murti, who has been remarkably astute with his oil price predictions, recently reaffirmed his call that crude oil will reach $200 a barrel — a price that would almost inevitably lead to $6-per-gallon gasoline."

http://www.kansascity.com/business/columnists/chris_lester/story/636666.html

We are facing a debt / credit / banking crisis.

U. S. national debt is just under 9.5 trillion (your share of that is about $31k).

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

"Consumer credit increased at an annual rate of 5-1/2 percent in the first quarter of 2008. In that quarter, revolving credit increased
at an annual rate of 6-3/4 percent, and nonrevolving credit increased at an annual rate of 4-1/2 percent. In March, consumer credit
increased at an annual rate of 7-1/4 percent."

American consumers are $2.5 trillion in debt (not including mortgages).

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/G19/Current/

"It's hard not to be worried when confronted with numbers such as these:

* About 43% of American families spend more than they earn each year.
* Average households carry some $8,000 in credit card debt.
* Personal bankruptcies have doubled in the past decade.

It's not clear exactly where the debt trend will take U.S. consumers or the U.S. economy. But it is clear that both are sailing in uncharted waters."

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P70581.asp

Terrorism

[It is still "out there" and the other shoe will drop.]

---- Opinion / thoughts below

Many places in the world are facing water shortages.

The idea of a world wide depression has made the mainstream news... check out the video from CNN...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR7h8NBQU3E

Folks tend to think "that can not happen in this modern day and age." That logic is applied to tyrant governments (can't happen here, right?), economic collapse (few if any saw it coming in '29), world war, another terrorist attack.

OK - think about it. We are facing an energy crisis, a food crisis, bank failures, soaring national and personal debt, war, terrorism, water shortages...

Seems to me it would not take much to bring down the house of cards. Just one poorly timed and poorly placed man-made or natural disaster would do it. Another terrorist attack on U. S. soil. Hurricane hitting oil production facility.

If you are one of them that says: "It cannot happen (again)" I say to you, you don't know history very well. The great depression was not really that long ago. WWII was really not that long ago.

Do you really think we have gotten that much smarter in the last 60 - 100 years? If we had gotten smarter, we would not be facing an energy crisis (would have been fixed back in the 70s), who among you would have predicted a food crisis just a few years ago and not been thought a nut, who would have thought terrorist could hijack a bunch of jets and use them as bombs and almost succeed in knocking out the white house and congress in one fell swoop, do you think rampant government spending is going stop anytime soon, do you think wild consumer spending is going to stop anytime soon? I could go on and on with this. Seems to me we have not gotten smarter generally speaking but exactly the opposite. Most people are certainly not capable (willing to be) self-reliant.

OK... now that I've written a small novel... what do I think is going to happen? 1 - A worldwide depression. 2 - WW III.

The trigger? To me that is the real question. Could be any number of things. A bit more ill wind or a strong gust and the house of cards comes tumbling down.

[Alpine_Sapper]

None of that is really anything new. Sensational media reporting has nothing better to hype about since the soldiers serving in Iraq is old hat and doesn't draw ratings.

@CNN:
"What are American's concerned about?"

"The housing crunch, inflation, and rising food and gas costs."

"Do a story on it."

@FOX:
"Did you see the story that just ran on CNN? Their ratings are going through the roof looking for the repeat!"

"Get someone on it, NOW!"

@MSNBC:

"OMG! We're falling further behind CNN and FOX. Get someone covering those topics. Call it an "anticipated depression". That'll get people hooked"

And on and on and on.

[Rick]

@CBS

There was news today?

[crashdive123]

@NBC - CBS has a news division?

[trax]

@ABC: "What is this En Bee See? and See Bee Ess? I'm too concerned with the upcoming depression to concern myself with these strange acronyms..."

[BraggSurvivor]

Interesting. Any comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TShPYA-OuPs

[Tahyo]

Interesting. Any comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TShPYA-OuPs


Yea.... we're going to get f&%ked with out a kiss.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Interesting. Any comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TShPYA-OuPs

Hey, yeah! Less illegal immigrants! Sweet! With 1 in 7 being employed in Mexico there's no reason to come here.

[beerrunner13]

Interesting. Any comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TShPYA-OuPs

There was a time we had elected reprsentitves now we have elected officals, the people in charge of representing use don't care about us. Its all about geting enough money to keep geting re elected and the little guy gets screwed.

[Rick]

Run for office, beerrunner. Then you can fix it.

Tahyo - You're right on the money. They don't come here for the clean air. It's an economics issue. Until a reasonable living can be made in Mexico and other Latin American countries they will continue to flood into the U.S. to raise their standard of living.

[beerrunner13]

Run for office, beerrunner. Then you can fix it.

Tahyo - You're right on the money. They don't come here for the clean air. It's an economics issue. Until a reasonable living can be made in Mexico and other Latin American countries they will continue to flood into the U.S. to raise their standard of living.

I would Rick but I won't lie and I don't have the money. An honest politican hasn't got a chance in this country as long as the media is controled by.......the powers that be. Witness Ron Paul

[LeaveThisLifeGuy]

None of that is really anything new. Sensational media reporting has nothing better to hype about since the soldiers serving in Iraq is old hat and doesn't draw ratings.

@CNN:
"What are American's concerned about?"

"The housing crunch, inflation, and rising food and gas costs."

"Do a story on it."

@FOX:
"Did you see the story that just ran on CNN? Their ratings are going through the roof looking for the repeat!"

"Get someone on it, NOW!"

@MSNBC:

"OMG! We're falling further behind CNN and FOX. Get someone covering those topics. Call it an "anticipated depression". That'll get people hooked"

And on and on and on.

I really couldn't agree more.

[Teotwawki]

I posted that not to get opinions on the corruptness of news media but to back up my answer to LeaveThisLifeGuy. He asked: What do you think will happen? Anyway, if you looked close - many of the links were not to media news sources.

Regardless of the hype, these facts remain: rising fuel prices, inflation throughout the economy, global food shortages, terrorism remains, our country and most people are in debt up to their eyeballs, corrupt political system.

By the way, I don't watch TV news. I get my news mostly from Inc. Magazine, Forbes, and Field and Stream. I do watch the local news in the morning for the weather and an old guy who does a daily fishing report. As far as the weather forecast goes, my weather stone is more accurate.

I am really surprised that so many here are so optimistic - must be the viagra.

[Rick]

Teotwawki - You did and you took some time to support your position. I appreciate that. Whether I agree or not is really not germane to the discussion. The fact that you are researching the information (educating yourself) and drawing your own conclusions are what is important. Acting on those conclusions is vital, which you are.

I think all of us have some position that we believe and tend to seek out that information that supports our inherent beliefs. So it's important to see the other side of the coin to maintain objectivity (or as much as we can) on the subject.

Whether that is the best way to build a fire, knap flint, or hunt deer or what the future might hold there might be some great information out there if we keep our minds open.

[crashdive123]

I am really surprised that so many here are so optimistic - must be the viagra.


Should really come as no surprise. You've got to remember that on this forum you are encountering people that prepare. We may not all share the same concerns and prepare in the same way, but with preperation comes a confidence. I won't speak for others, but I tend to have an optomistic outlook on things. I'm not putting on blinders or sugar coating any given situation. If I can change them or the situation, I do. If I can't change it, what is the point of causing an ulcer in worrying about it. Life is a lot more enjoyable for me if I'm not worrying all of the time. (aware and prepared - yes)

[Rick]

Good stuff, Crash. Many of us have lived through similar down cycles as well.

I think you will always be able to point to multiple events, at any time, and say how bad things are. I also think you will be able to point to multiple events, at any time, and say how good things are. It's a matter of perspective and inherent beliefs.

[Alpine_Sapper]

I posted that not to get opinions on the corruptness of news media but to back up my answer to LeaveThisLifeGuy. He asked: What do you think will happen? Anyway, if you looked close - many of the links were not to media news sources.

Regardless of the hype, these facts remain: rising fuel prices, inflation throughout the economy, global food shortages, terrorism remains, our country and most people are in debt up to their eyeballs, corrupt political system.

By the way, I don't watch TV news. I get my news mostly from Inc. Magazine, Forbes, and Field and Stream. I do watch the local news in the morning for the weather and an old guy who does a daily fishing report. As far as the weather forecast goes, my weather stone is more accurate.

I am really surprised that so many here are so optimistic - must be the viagra.

Inc. Magazine a Forbes are doing the same stories as anyone else. I'm not saying their corrupt necessarily...I'm saying America is in a crisis, yes, but the media has never gotten out of the "Gulf War Syndrome" glut, where they inundate us with a topic until that's ALL we can think about. Is it bad? yes. Can it get a whole lot worse? Yes. Will it get better? In my opinion, yes, but not before it gets worse. I don't see the world ending because of this. Possibly some political restructureing from it, but hey, that could be a good thing. I understood exactly what you were trying to say..."Ooooh ooga booga doom and gloom! The worlds gonna end!" I just don't believe it. My point is that you shouldn't buy the hype. Read it with an objective eye, and realize that,yes, even Field And Stream does things JUST to get readers intrigued. Why? TO MAKE MONEY. They're not looking out for you. And it's not Viaga, homeboy, I'm not an old geezer that needs help. It's the healthy dose of REALITY.

[Teotwawki]

Perhaps I'm the one that needs a healthy dose of viagra! ;)

I don't really think "the world is going to end" but I do think the world is going to change drastically - ultimately for the better but we are going to go through an extended period of rough times to get to the other side.

Just how rough it is going to be is anyone's guess.

One of the points I was really trying to make is that so many people have a "that can't happen in this day and age" mindset. I think that is naive. I think that comes, in part, from an overabundance of comfort and a general dumbing down of the populace - seems that most people are much more concerned about American Idol or the latest news about Brittney Spears (where is my viagra) than they are with the serious goings-on in the world.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm not so confident, generally speaking, that we (collective human we) have learned so well. Seems to me that most folks forget about what happened last week let alone last year or decade or century.

Another depression can happen.

Another world war can happen (wasn't WWI supposed to end all wars?)

Another and perhaps worse terrorist attack on U. S. soil can (will?) happen.

Seems everyone is telling me that any kind of "gloom and doom" scenario is just the high fructose corn syrup of the media and I'm drinking it up like some hyperactive kid sucking down a mountain dew.

So - why are you all working towards self-reliance and self-sufficiency? Is it just a fun hobby for you? Why are you making plans to be able to "bug out" or "bug in?"

Perhaps I should post this as a separate question...

[Rick]

I think there are any number of scenarios that could occur. Some are natural (tornado, wild fire, blizzard) and some are man made (chemical accident, meth lab, and yes, terrorism). So I plan for them and try to take measures that would reduce my family's exposure and increase their safety (if we're lucky).

What I don't think will happen, but certainly could, is a depression.

But, as Crash said so well, I don't dwell on the negative stuff. I don't wrap my life around it. I won't move my family to the end of the woods to get away from something that may never happen. What I will do is recognize that anything is a possiblity, plan accordingly (as is humanly possible) practice my plan and update as necessary, then live my life. I've said before, I control what I can, influence what I can and don't worry about the rest.

[trax]

Personally, I think another ice age is coming....wait for it.....

[Teotwawki]

Trax: Ice-age? Are you being serious or sarcastic?

[crashdive123]

Trax: Ice-age? Are you being serious or sarcastic?

There is a wealth of information out there to support cooling and warming. What's really happening?????? Time will tell. http://climate.weather.com/blog/9_15153.html

[wareagle69]

Trax: Ice-age? Are you being serious or sarcastic?

let me say read trax's 3000 some odd posts here to see if he is being sarcastic well let me be fair not all his posts are odd(just kidding bro)

[DOGMAN]

One of the points I was really trying to make is that so many people have a "that can't happen in this day and age" mindset. I think that is naive. I think that comes, in part, from an overabundance of comfort and a general dumbing down of the populace - seems that most people are much more concerned about American Idol or the latest news about Brittney Spears (where is my viagra) than they are with the serious goings-on in the world.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm not so confident, generally speaking, that we (collective human we) have learned so well. Seems to me that most folks forget about what happened last week let alone last year or decade or century

I just read an interesting article on this yesterday in the current Newsweek. The current "Y" generation was being discussed. They are being called by some the "Dumbest Generation". The basis for this is just as you say- they have very little knowledge of the past, or the current world around them. Knowledge of History, Geography, Literature , etc... is at an all time low. Interestingly though IQ's are at all time high. IQ's have been increasing with every generation since these tests have been being conducted. So, according to the author, high IQ plus very little knowledge equals the dumbest generation. However, the author went on to further ask- who is to blame for this? Children do not educate themselves- they are taught from their parents, grandparents, teachers, clergy, community, etc... so the author states that these kids may not be to blame. We are to blame, because we have failed them as elders.

[DOGMAN]

So - why are you all working towards self-reliance and self-sufficiency? Is it just a fun hobby for you? Why are you making plans to be able to "bug out" or "bug in?

I guess its not really a hobby for me, it is a lifestyle. But, it is a lifestyle choice (not neccessity) so that does sort of make it a hobby. I choose to live this way because it is fun, and I feel more connected to the world around me if I kill my own meat, and grow or gather some of my food. I don't really fit in with the modern speed of our culture. TV and pop culture don't really interest me, but plant names and animal tracks do. So, self-reliance and self suffiency kind of grew out of my interests.

I am not really planning on bugging in or out. I view everyday as a survival situation. Having stores of food is important because I live a long way from the grocery store. Having survival tools and equipment on me is mandatory just because of were I live- if something happens to me nobody is around to help. I have to watch my own arse most of the time.

I kind of believe the words from that REM song..."It's the end of the world as we know it....and I feel fine" I just kind of try to accept the things around me as they are, then make the best out of the situation with what I've got to work with.

[trax]

Trax: Ice-age? Are you being serious or sarcastic?

I-I-I-I'm not sure...how old is the planet? How many global "catastrophes" or natural globe changing events has science already documented? I'm suggesting that we can worry our butts off over anything that might come to pass. I live the way I live and contribute what I can to this forum and take what I can use from this forum because it's a lifestyle I enjoy.

[Sam Reeves]

I guess its not really a hobby for me, it is a lifestyle. But, it is a lifestyle choice (not neccessity) so that does sort of make it a hobby. I choose to live this way because it is fun, and I feel more connected to the world around me if I kill my own meat, and grow or gather some of my food. I don't really fit in with the modern speed of our culture. TV and pop culture don't really interest me, but plant names and animal tracks do. So, self-reliance and self suffiency kind of grew out of my interests.

I am not really planning on bugging in or out. I view everyday as a survival situation. Having stores of food is important because I live a long way from the grocery store. Having survival tools and equipment on me is mandatory just because of were I live- if something happens to me nobody is around to help. I have to watch my own arse most of the time.

I kind of believe the words from that REM song..."It's the end of the world as we know it....and I feel fine" I just kind of try to accept the things around me as they are, then make the best out of the situation with what I've got to work with.



http://readbob.com


:cool:

[DOGMAN]

Sam Reeves, I am not sure what readbob had to do with my post you quoted? I read over that website and don't see the correlation. Help me out here....

[Alpine_Sapper]

http://readbob.com


:cool:

I can hear the hot air rushing out of that guy over my internet connection.

[crashdive123]

Jason - I think it must be you. He posted the same response to you in another thread (college degrees). Hmmmmmmm.

[Vika]

Why kerosene?
I'm also hoping to find a generator that will run on kerosene. When the SHTF we will abandon the use of the monitors and use the kerosene just for the generator.

I have many gallons of dyed red kerosene stored for the "diesel" generator. I did a fair amount of research on using kerosene instead of diesel. None of the engine manufacturers will officially speak on the topic, but "off the record" most admitted that kerosene will work just fine in place of diesel in any diesel engine, but they can't say it officially because of air emission implications and warranty implications. They did recommend a lubricity additive. Our local Air National Guard base runs straight kerosene (jet fuel, JP-4) in base trucks (like snow plows) all winter to avoid the problem of diesel jelling at low temperature.

The reason that us self reliant folks might want to store kerosene rather than diesel is because kerosene has better shelf life. It doesn't encourage the growth of bacterial contamination, as does diesel.

Dyed red kerosene isn't recommended for combustion in enclosed spaces, such as for Monitor heaters or lamps. Apparently the red dye can put some unhealthy combustion products into an enclosed space. Never-the-less, I store red dyed kerosene because it is much less expensive. The red dye means that no road tax has been paid on it, but the price difference between red and clear Kerosene is more than just the road tax in many locations. This is because clear kerosene is often times "certified pure" which adds cost. Our local oil distributor can only source clear kero in 50 gallon drums, while the red dyed kero comes in tank trucks, at a further lower cost. When I last checked three weeks ago, red kerosene and red diesel were the same price from that dealer. They were both $4.39 a gallon if I picked up at least 200 gallons in drums. Clear Kerosene was over $5 a gallon. I have a few drums of clear kero on hand for one heater and some lamps.

To my stored kerosene for use in engines, I have added one quart of "DieselKleene" to each 50 gallon drum. This adds stabilizers and lubricity.

[DOGMAN]

Well, I've read Bob, and I can tell you his theory is easy to blow out of the water- First, go look up the definition of "Religion" in any Dictionary of your choice. Then flip to the "P" section and look up "Political Correctness". Now, explain to me how Political Correctness is a religion by the definitions of our language.

Furthermore sterotyping Professors is like stereotyping auto mechanics. It is just to large and diverse of group of individuals to say they are all working towards the same agenda. Professors at conservative Christian universities hold radically different belief systems than professors at Liberal Arts Schools. Heck, go from department to department at any large University and you'll find widely different belief systems. So, grouping them all together the way Bob does is just plain short sighted.

Lastly, if there is one thing the Academic community agrees on- it is the Scientific Method- not political correctness. The scientific method is based on investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. And, this is what really seperates academia from religion. The scientfic method helps keep Science and Professors on track, and keeps their theories from developing into religious systems. Research at the University level is about one upping previously held concepts and trying to add to a body of knowledge. Radically different than the defintion of Religion.

Has our culture gone over board with Political Correctness, I'd say probably. Are there some Professors out there that are idiots and/ or corrupt- of course, just as their are auto mechanics that are idiots and corrupt. Professors like mechanics are just humans after all and they have the same faults as every other person.

Lastly Sam, if you have a problem with me- don't beat around the bush. Come right out and say it. I see that you are Just Plain Mean... feel free to attack me however you seem fit. I'm sure I've been called worse by better.

[Sam Reeves]

Sam Reeves, I am not sure what readbob had to do with my post you quoted? I read over that website and don't see the correlation. Help me out here....

First of all Whitaker is not just some random nut. He is/was a professor and a speech writer for Ronald Reagan and others.

"Why Johny Can't Think" is the best explanation yet on why our educational system is failing.

[LeaveThisLifeGuy]

I guess its not really a hobby for me, it is a lifestyle. But, it is a lifestyle choice (not neccessity) so that does sort of make it a hobby. I choose to live this way because it is fun, and I feel more connected to the world around me if I kill my own meat, and grow or gather some of my food. I don't really fit in with the modern speed of our culture. TV and pop culture don't really interest me, but plant names and animal tracks do. So, self-reliance and self suffiency kind of grew out of my interests.

I am not really planning on bugging in or out. I view everyday as a survival situation. Having stores of food is important because I live a long way from the grocery store. Having survival tools and equipment on me is mandatory just because of were I live- if something happens to me nobody is around to help. I have to watch my own arse most of the time.

I kind of believe the words from that REM song..."It's the end of the world as we know it....and I feel fine" I just kind of try to accept the things around me as they are, then make the best out of the situation with what I've got to work with.

i find your beliefs intriguing and would like to sign up. where should i send my 10% tithing?:D

if all religions in this world were this simple and straightforward, life would be grand.

[Sam Reeves]

Well, I've read Bob, Have you really?
and I can tell you his theory is easy to blow out of the water- First, go look up the definition of "Religion" in any Dictionary of your choice. Then flip to the "P" section and look up "Political Correctness". Now, explain to me how Political Correctness is a religion by the definitions of our language.Political correctness is a religion the same way any other religion is.


Furthermore sterotyping Professors is like stereotyping auto mechanics. It is just to large and diverse of group of individuals to say they are all working towards the same agenda. Professors at conservative Christian universities hold radically different belief systems than professors at Liberal Arts Schools. Heck, go from department to department at any large University and you'll find widely different belief systems. So, grouping them all together the way Bob does is just plain short sighted.Yet they are all are politically correct.


Lastly, if there is one thing the Academic community agrees on- it is the Scientific Method- not political correctness. The scientific method is based on investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. And, this is what really seperates academia from religion. The scientfic method helps keep Science and Professors on track, and keeps their theories from developing into religious systems. Research at the University level is about one upping previously held concepts and trying to add to a body of knowledge. Radically different than the defintion of Religion.If you had of actually read the book you would have seen his explanation of political correctness or what it really is, social engineering. Anyway he states that with political science, like any other science it goes though an era of folly and trail and error. He offers how doctors used to bleed a patient when they were sick. If they didn't get well they would bleed them some more. With political correctness the remedy seems to be diversity. If a little diversity doesn't work then they treat it with more diversity.


Has our culture gone over board with Political Correctness, I'd say probably. Are there some Professors out there that are idiots and/ or corrupt- of course, just as their are auto mechanics that are idiots and corrupt. Professors like mechanics are just humans after all and they have the same faults as every other person.Nope. Mechanics just want to fix yer car and get paid.


Lastly Sam, if you have a problem with me- don't beat around the bush. Come right out and say it. I see that you are Just Plain Mean... feel free to attack me however you seem fit. I'm sure I've been called worse by better.
:rolleyes:
If I had a problem with you I would not have a problem letting it be known. I was just responding to a post you made concerning education. I was just looking for a little friendly dialog not a pissing contest. If you take offense to this it is your problem not mine.

[DOGMAN]

No, I don't take offense to friendly dialogue. But, you haven't pursued dialogue- you just kept posting a link to Bob after my posts. That doesn't really count as dialogue. But, if you'd like to engage in a friendly exchange now- I am game.

First, you said, referring to Professors "Yet they are all are politically correct". That is a really naive assumption, and in a debate, you are really setting yourself up for failure, because all it takes is one example of a Professor that it not politically correct to blow your statement apart. A better argument would be "Yet, many are politically correct".

Second, you have set requirements for participating in the debate. However, these requirements are biased towards your stance. You twice make statements that imply that since I have not read the book, I can't have a understanding of the message in the book. The big problem with arguing this way is that, it opens the door for me to add criteria for the debate as well, along your line of reasoning.... So, since you have defined the rules as, we have to have first hand knowledge to understand, I'd like to further that line of logic- my stance is that if you haven't graduated from college- you can't fully understand the college experience and according to you, one can't make a valid value judgement on something they haven't personally read or experienced.

So that my friend leaves us at a standstill. I haven't read the book. You haven't graduated from college. So, therefore according to your rules of engagement we can't go any further unless we change the rules. We can either shut the door on this, and move on. Or, you can change your argument.

[LeaveThisLifeGuy]

No, I don't take offense to friendly dialogue. But, you haven't pursued dialogue- you just kept posting a link to Bob after my posts. That doesn't really count as dialogue. But, if you'd like to engage in a friendly exchange now- I am game.

First, you said, referring to Professors "Yet they are all are politically correct". That is a really naive assumption, and in a debate, you are really setting yourself up for failure, because all it takes is one example of a Professor that it not politically correct to blow your statement apart. A better argument would be "Yet, many are politically correct".

Second, you have set requirements for participating in the debate. However, these requirements are biased towards your stance. You twice make statements that imply that since I have not read the book, I can't have a understanding of the message in the book. The big problem with arguing this way is that, it opens the door for me to add criteria for the debate as well, along your line of reasoning.... So, since you have defined the rules as, we have to have first hand knowledge to understand, I'd like to further that line of logic- my stance is that if you haven't graduated from college- you can't fully understand the college experience and according to you, one can't make a valid value judgement on something they haven't personally read or experienced.

So that my friend leaves us at a standstill. I haven't read the book. You haven't graduated from college. So, therefore according to your rules of engagement we can't go any further unless we change the rules. We can either shut the door on this, and move on. Or, you can change your argument.

or you can read the book and he can graduate from college:D

[Alpine_Sapper]

First of all Whitaker is not just some random nut. He is/was a professor and a speech writer for Ronald Reagan and others.



The latter statement does absolutely nothing to prove the truthfulness of the former. If you believe that every speech writer for a republican (and quoting him as a writer for Reagan is simply laughable) is not a nutjob you may have issues thinking for yourself. He just seems like someone who is disgruntled with his way of life and decided to make a buck by selling books to other discontents.

Like I said previously...And old blowhard.

[wareagle69]

gosh you new folks crack me up kind of reminds me of the good ol days when volwest and rim would "discuss" things

[Rick]

Sam - As a former professor and head of the academic committee I can tell you that stuff is just bunk. I had no politically correct agenda to follow. Grades were earned in my classes and I failed more than one regardless of their race, creed, religion or whatever other agenda you choose to use. I also passed many without any regard to the former.

While each course had a syllabus that had to be followed to ensure uniformity across the professors and classes, it was designed to ensure the level of knowledge required for the course was taught, the class discussion/lectures followed the information in the book, and was not established for any political agenda.

Were books wrong? You bet. Author errors (very small %) and publishing errors (much larger %) were identified in each of the texts that we used and that information was shared among the professors to ensure everyone was aware and we were all teaching the correct information. Not surprising that the more technical the text the more errors that were usually found. Accounting books, for example, were far more prone than business or english books. Probably because proof readers are less accounting oriented. That's just my hunch.

Were there some professors that needed to be doing something else? Sadly, yes. The good news is that generally happened. The bad news is some students were short changed while those professors were teaching. I don't know a way around that. No matter how much background checking you do some that look squeeky clean on paper are just really bad in the classroom.

I had several English Second Language (ESL) students on my classes and I always went out of my way to assist them and create additional reference sheets for them. I can get by in a couple of languages, Spanish and French, so I would create reference sheets that translated some of what we talked about. At least the important phrases and words along with some definitions. I have had both Spanish and French speaking students as well as hearing impaired students. I also had some Native American students and one in particular was an ESL student. By far the most difficult challenge I encountered and the most rewarding experience I had.

Can I speak to all colleges and universities? No. Only the one I was at. So somewhere what you and Bobby are saying is probably true. But I associated with a lot of professors from other institutions during my short tenure and I know most, if not all, feel the same way.

Jason, you did a nice write up and, in my opinion, you were right on the money.

[Sam Reeves]

No, I don't take offense to friendly dialog. But, you haven't pursued dialogue- you just kept posting a link to Bob after my posts. That doesn't really count as dialogue. But, if you'd like to engage in a friendly exchange now- I am game.

First, you said, referring to Professors "Yet they are all are politically correct". That is a really naive assumption, and in a debate, you are really setting yourself up for failure, because all it takes is one example of a Professor that it not politically correct to blow your statement apart. A better argument would be "Yet, many are politically correct".Okay. Fine. 99% of College professors are politically correct. Kevin McDonald and David Duke are both professors but neither are politically correct.
Besides, I thought I had already made it clear that I was not looking for a pissing contest. (debate).


Second, you have set requirements for participating in the debate. However, these requirements are biased towards your stance. You twice make statements that imply that since I have not read the book, I can't have a understanding of the message in the book. The big problem with arguing this way is that, it opens the door for me to add criteria for the debate as well, along your line of reasoning.... So, since you have defined the rules as, we have to have first hand knowledge to understand, I'd like to further that line of logic- my stance is that if you haven't graduated from college- you can't fully understand the college experience and according to you, one can't make a valid value judgement on something they haven't personally read or experienced.For me the biggest requirement for a friendly conversation or debate with me is simple honesty. You have all ready proven to me that you are a liar.

Well, I've read Bob and I can tell you that his theory is easy to blow out of the water

Now you say you have never read the book.

If you had actually read the book you (y'all) would know that Bob is in agreement with much of what you (y'all) have to say.


So that my friend leaves us at a standstill. I haven't read the book. You haven't graduated from college. So, therefore according to your rules of engagement we can't go any further unless we change the rules. We can either shut the door on this, and move on. Or, you can change your argument.I don't how me not having graduated yet has anything to do with being able to see that What Whitaker says about professors is true.

[Sam Reeves]

The latter statement does absolutely nothing to prove the truthfulness of the former. If you believe that every speech writer for a republican (and quoting him as a writer for Reagan is simply laughable) is not a nutjob you may have issues thinking for yourself. He just seems like someone who is disgruntled with his way of life and decided to make a buck by selling books to other discontents.
I've never been a big fan of the Republican party. I was just pointing out that unlike you and I he is speaking from experience.


Like I said previously...And old blowhard.
Take that up with him. I bet you don't have half the brains that old blowhard does. Shows us what you have.

[Sam Reeves]

gosh you new folks crack me up kind of reminds me of the good ol days when volwest and rim would "discuss" things

New to what? Life? Religion? America? This new forum on survival?

:p

[Sam Reeves]

Sam - As a former professor and head of the academic committee I can tell you that stuff is just bunk. I had no politically correct agenda to follow. Grades were earned in my classes and I failed more than one regardless of their race, creed, religion or whatever other agenda you choose to use. I also passed many without any regard to the former.
What does any of this have to do with the book?


While each course had a syllabus that had to be followed to ensure uniformity across the professors and classes, it was designed to ensure the level of knowledge required for the course was taught, the class discussion/lectures followed the information in the book, and was not established for any political agenda.
Everything has a political agenda. When did you teach?




Were there some professors that needed to be doing something else? Sadly, yes. The good news is that generally happened. The bad news is some students were short changed while those professors were teaching. I don't know a way around that. No matter how much background checking you do some that look squeeky clean on paper are just really bad in the classroom. Why would a qualified person be wrong for the job? With the exception of perverts, of course.


I had several English Second Language (ESL) students on my classes and I always went out of my way to assist them and create additional reference sheets for them. I can get by in a couple of languages, Spanish and French, so I would create reference sheets that translated some of what we talked about. At least the important phrases and words along with some definitions. I have had both Spanish and French speaking students as well as hearing impaired students. I also had some Native American students and one in particular was an ESL student. By far the most difficult challenge I encountered and the most rewarding experience I had.
Why was there students in an American college that can't speak English? How does this happen


Can I speak to all colleges and universities? No. Only the one I was at. So somewhere what you and Bobby are saying is probably true. But I associated with a lot of professors from other institutions during my short tenure and I know most, if not all, feel the same way. Meaning they are all willing to go an extra mile to ensure that somebody doesn't even bother to learn English advances in life?


Jason, you did a nice write up and, in my opinion, you were right on the money.By lying, jumping at me with both feet when I was originally agreeing with him then attacking a Friend of mine when he has never even read the book?

Y'all aren't a bunch of liberal survivalists wanna be hippy types are you?

[Rick]

Sam - I should have been clearer with my explanation. Mea Culpa. My comment about it being bunk was in reference to the link you posted. Specifically,


Political Correctness is a religion, and college professors are the high priests of the religion.

My point is there was no political correctness involved and I certainly wasn't a high priest of anything.


Everything has a political agenda. When did you teach?

I don't know why you feel that way. Why does someone that wants to teach others have to have any agenda other than humanitarian? Can't something just be altruistic without some covert and underlying agenda? I stopped teaching in 2006.


Why would a qualified person be wrong for the job? With the exception of perverts, of course.

Being able to convey an idea, IMHO, is a bit of an art form. To be able to explain it so everyone grasps the concept, whether you are teaching how to build a fire or Keynesian Economic Theory, requires a set of skills. Skills that don't always come across on a resume' or a back ground check. I worked with some very intelligent and gifted individuals that did not have the ability to teach ideas to others. I also worked with some that were a bit clueless. I believe that occurs in every job and I'm sure you've run into in your life as well.


Why was there students in an American college that can't speak English? How does this happen


Meaning they are all willing to go an extra mile to ensure that somebody doesn't even bother to learn English advances in life?

It happens for a lot of legitimate reasons. One Bolivian woman had married an American and was trying to further her education. One woman had left her reservation. One woman had migrated here from Martinique.

You made a wrong assumption. All were either new to this country or had just left an American reservation. All were more than willing to learn English and were working very hard to do so. I had no requirement to teach in anything other than English other than my own desire to assist them any way I could. I was trying to help them with their transition. The same way I would hope someone else would if I were to move to another country. Had they not been willing to learn English or had expected something to be handed to them then I would not have gone out of my way. Such was not the case however and I'm more than willing to assist anyone that's willing to work.


By lying, jumping at me with both feet when I was originally agreeing with him then attacking a Friend of mine when he has never even read the book?

I don't know anything about that. I didn't read that in his write-up. What I was referring to were his comments regarding political correctness with regard to professors.

[Sam Reeves]

Sam - I should have been clearer with my explanation. Mea Culpa. My comment about it being bunk was in reference to the link you posted. Specifically,



My point is there was no political correctness involved and I certainly wasn't a high priest of anything. Horsecrap.
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=6460

Are you trying to convey to me that there is no political correctness involved in teaching at the college level?




I don't know why you feel that way. Why does someone that wants to teach others have to have any agenda other than humanitarian? Can't something just be altruistic without some covert and underlying agenda? I stopped teaching in 2006.By humanitaria you mean multicultural, right?




Being able to convey an idea, IMHO, is a bit of an art form. To be able to explain it so everyone grasps the concept, whether you are teaching how to build a fire or Keynesian Economic Theory, requires a set of skills. Skills that don't always come across on a resume' or a back ground check. I worked with some very intelligent and gifted individuals that did not have the ability to teach ideas to others. I also worked with some that were a bit clueless. I believe that occurs in every job and I'm sure you've run into in your life as well.Me thinks yer art form has been replaced with "no child left behind" It will be initiated at the college level when "demographics" require this for "urban youths" to be successful.






It happens for a lot of legitimate reasons. One Bolivian woman had married an American and was trying to further her education. One woman had left her reservation. One woman had migrated here from Martinique.

You made a wrong assumption. All were either new to this country or had just left an American reservation. All were more than willing to learn English and were working very hard to do so. I had no requirement to teach in anything other than English other than my own desire to assist them any way I could. I was trying to help them with their transition. The same way I would hope someone else would if I were to move to another country. Had they not been willing to learn English or had expected something to be handed to them then I would not have gone out of my way. Such was not the case however and I'm more than willing to assist anyone that's willing to work. Unless they were only taking a English class and a English class only I can't imagine how those students could benefit from the other courses. How did they even get pass the admissions office?

[Alpine_Sapper]

I've never been a big fan of the Republican party. I was just pointing out that unlike you and I he is speaking from experience.


Take that up with him. I bet you don't have half the brains that old blowhard does. Shows us what you have.

I have enough brains to see that he's full of ****. And how do you know I'm not speaking from experience. I graduated college.

[Sam Reeves]

I have enough brains to see that he's full of ****. And how do you know I'm not speaking from experience. I graduated college.Prove since you are itching for a fight. Take it too his blog and argue it with him.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Prove since you are itching for a fight. Take it too his blog and argue it with him.

Dude I'm not itching for a fight. I just think the guys full of ****. And neither you nor he are worth my time arguing with. Enjoy the ignore list, Mr. proud bigot.

[Rick]

Sam,

Had you read my post you would have seen that I specifically said I could ONLY speak for the college where I taught and for those I associated with. I even agreed that it probably did occur. You can't just broad stroke everyone with the same idea.


By humanitaria you mean multicultural, right?

Why are you twisting my words? I meant exactly what I said. I started teaching because I had both the education and the real world experience. I had been fortunate enough to have had some really great mentors and wanted to give back. Nothing more, nothing less.


Me thinks yer art form has been replaced with "no child left behind" It will be initiated at the college level when "demographics" require this for "urban youths" to be successful.

Again, read my post. I said I had flunked people that did not EARN a passing grade. You are trying to twist the words into something that fits your mold.


Unless they were only taking a English class and a English class only I can't imagine how those students could benefit from the other courses. How did they even get pass the admissions office?

Good God Almighty. I didn't say they were illiterate. I said English was second language. They were intelligent and knew the right answers. What do you want me to say? I had English first language students that didn't understand what a debit or a credit meant. How the hell is someone from another country supposed to know the meaning? You should try to learn English from their perspective with words like to, too, and two.

I'm done trying to explain. You are welcome to believe anything you wish, right or wrong.

[Sam Reeves]

Dude I'm not itching for a fight. I just think the guys full of ****. And neither you nor he are worth my time arguing with. Enjoy the ignore list, Mr. proud bigot.

Bye. :rolleyes:

[Sam Reeves]

Sam,

Had you read my post you would have seen that I specifically said I could ONLY speak for the college where I taught and for those I associated with. I even agreed that it probably did occur. You can't just broad stroke everyone with the same idea. Hey, I agree. But more times than not college professors take political correctness to extremes.

Me thinks yer art form has been replaced with "no child left behind" It will be initiated at the college level when "demographics" require this for "urban youths" to be successful.



Why are you twisting my words? I meant exactly what I said. I started teaching because I had both the education and the real world experience. I had been fortunate enough to have had some really great mentors and wanted to give back. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think you have misread what I wrote. If you would like a few examples of "No child left behind" being initiated at the college I can provide them.
BTW, if I can admit to being a bigot surely you can admit to being a multicutralist.




Again, read my post. I said I had flunked people that did not EARN a passing grade.I'm talking about a book concerning the liberal agenda of America's professors and you are talking about passing grades.
You are trying to twist the words into something that fits your mold. No, but I should. This is what y'all have been doing to me for the last two or three days now.


Good God Almighty. I didn't say they were illiterate. I said English was second language. They were intelligent and knew the right answers. What do you want me to say? I had English first language students that didn't understand what a debit or a credit meant. How the hell is someone from another country supposed to know the meaning? You should try to learn English from their perspective with words like to, too, and two.Again, the part I don't understand is how a feller is supposed to understand what the professor is talking about when he giving a lecture on Keynesian Economic Theory. I would hate to see his notes.


I'm done trying to explain.Does that mean you are one of the guys that just couldn't teach? :D
You are welcome to believe anything you wish, right or wrong.You are done trying to explain because you know that I am right.

[DOGMAN]

Ok, I am liar. Fair enough. I should have said "I have read over the link you directed me to, and from what I read Bob's theory is easy to blow out of the water" And, I feel I've done that. Because other than challenging my honesty, you really didn't have a critque of my points.

Lastly, your closing statement to me was:
"I don't how me not having graduated yet has anything to do with being able to see that What Whitaker says about professors is true."

And, on that note I'll say come back and talk to me after you've graduated from a 4 year University, because then you will have the hindsight to truly judge the college experience, until then you just don't have the personal first hand knowledge required to have a valid or useful opinion.

[Sourdough]

O' My God, Run, RUN....the ship has turned again.......Standard and Poors has just down graded the financial to scrap. Not a good time to be in a small boat that is in the path of a large ship. It could sink you. Or suck you down in the whirlpool when the financial ship sinks. Run, Run for your financial life....:eek:

[wildWoman]

Boys, is it PMS time again?? ;) Funny where this all went from home sales...

[Rick]

Right. Gold looks so good. Less than $900 and ounce now. And it's actually UP!

http://goldprice.org/

[crashdive123]

Boys, is it PMS time again?? ;) Funny where this all went from home sales...

:D--:D--:D--:D

[nell67]

Boys, is it PMS time again?? ;) Funny where this all went from home sales...

Love it wildwoman,it does sound kinda like high school when it's that time of the month for half the cheerleading squad,doesn't it.

[DOGMAN]

Well, its impossible for us to arm wrestle on the internet. So, we have to have some kinda way to flex our muscles and inflate our ego's......

[trax]

Well, its impossible for us to arm wrestle on the internet. So, we have to have some kinda way to flex our muscles and inflate our ego's......

And pi$$ing contests really mess up the keyboard...

[Sam Reeves]

Ok, I am liar. Fair enough. I should have said "I have read over the link you directed me to, and from what I read Bob's theory is easy to blow out of the water" And, I feel I've done that. Because other than challenging my honesty, you really didn't have a critque of my points.

Lastly, your closing statement to me was:
"I don't how me not having graduated yet has anything to do with being able to see that What Whitaker says about professors is true."

And, on that note I'll say come back and talk to me after you've graduated from a 4 year University, because then you will have the hindsight to truly judge the college experience, until then you just don't have the personal first hand knowledge required to have a valid or useful opinion.

Okay. You actually read Bob and I'll finish my edjamaction and we'll be better off for it. I don't understand why you jumped at me with both feet over a link to a book that was in agreement with what you were saying at the time.

[DOGMAN]

I guess like you, I am just plain mean. LOL. Take care- Jason

[Beo]

I hate hopes guts!
And you don't need college to know whats going on, you need college for the education. Although I went to college while in the Army the experience is over rated in my opinion. Tell me exactly what experience your refering to.

[Alpine_Sapper]

I hate hopes guts!
And you don't need college to know whats going on, you need college for the education. Although I went to college while in the Army the experience is over rated in my opinion. Tell me exactly what experience your refering to.

What kind of college did you go to while in the service? Did you actually attend a university, doing the day class thing and partying at night, or did you go to night school? Or even better yet, one of those "university of havana" distance learning schools? "yes, you too can get your college education while living in a hut in a combat zone!" That's NOT the college experience I prefer. Going to school full time during the day, and working a part time job to have spending money is definitely the way to go. use the loans to pay for the dorms or housing, get the grant for some food, and spend your evening of pre-grad bliss getting toasty and chasing co-eds. Now THAT'S the college experience. Why waste four years of your youth in such frivolous pursuits? Because once you graduate and enter the real world, it's just not as easy to find a building with 60 hot females who are willing to show off their skills on the beer bong at a moments notice.

Ok, so you don't enjoy getting lit and chasing co-eds after a hard days work on learning what skills you'll be using for the rest of your life...No problem...here's a skill to practice instead... "You wanna the combo or just the sandwich?" or how about this one..."Exact change, only. You need a transfer pass?"

[Sam Reeves]

Ok, so you don't enjoy getting lit and chasing co-eds after a hard days work on learning what skills you'll be using for the rest of your life...No problem...here's a skill to practice instead... "You wanna the combo or just the sandwich?" or how about this one..."Exact change, only. You need a transfer pass?"

Or hire the best of you guys to run our business for us.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

музы (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/5549)184.4 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/829)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1926-11)ПроÑ� (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1577759)Aida (http://filmzones.ru/t/1581357)Intr (http://gadwall.ru/t/1779053)Петр (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1459086)ЧаÑ�Ñ‚ (http://gageboard.ru/t/1491792)Quen (http://gagrule.ru/t/1351517)Ð*ван (http://gallduct.ru/t/1655710)Remi (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1668595)`Лен (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1688738)Sesa (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1705296)Croo (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1715373)
Amat (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1741273)Жако (http://gascautery.ru/t/1772432)soun (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1779553)Rich (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1816589)Will (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1641324)Zone (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1859385)поло (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1708382)John (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1564389)Почи (http://geartreating.ru/t/1578849)Sere (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1529111)Иофф (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1582173)Tran (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1559504)wwwn (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1559098)Coli (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1613122)ча�о (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1491143)
газе (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1628700)Bran (http://habituate.ru/t/1406162)Коче (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1559313)Hump (http://hackworker.ru/t/1699320)Ка�ы (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1386978)Fran (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1559731)проф (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1459493)Mirc (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1567070)List (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1529012)рыца (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1556507)Sale (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1564196)Shin (http://haltstate.ru/t/1613387)Paul (http://handcoding.ru/t/1658332)Figh (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1703893)Blac (http://handradar.ru/t/1742140)
Lieb (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1778041)Euge (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1788079)Daga (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1856997)Кита (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1385548)Ланг (http://hardasiron.ru/t/1375561)Митр (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1476539)Зайц (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1425297)Сафа (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1444515)Alta (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1711328)Laka (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1549331)Fall (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1549371)Macb (http://headregulator.ru/t/1549384)Mand (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1737582)запи (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1625537)Scot (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1595679)
Гейт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1580363)Стри (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/1349410)Ayre (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1372564)Лепе (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1717857)Rajn (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1466443)1980 (http://jobstress.ru/t/1610766)Воль (http://jogformation.ru/t/1578386)Икра (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1718256)XVII (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1469823)Штей (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1630267)�ико (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1386928)разл (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1611171)Янчу (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1375927)Доли (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1351782)VIII (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1377428)
Иллю (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1385734)Можа (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1386915)Ð*омо (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1487622)пиÑ�а (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1718616)Кубл (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1408639)Elea (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1370479)Возн (http://keyserum.ru/t/1617597)Леви (http://kickplate.ru/t/1670178)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1783899)опуб (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1457752)Dese (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1704077)меÑ�Ñ‚ (http://kinozones.ru/film/7997)Gust (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1526935)Бирю (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1487839)Ñ�олн (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1780179)
Game (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1824707)Modo (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1857552)MORG (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1550026)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1548814)[/url][url=http://labourearnings.ru/t/1977518]With (http://laborracket.ru/t/1919085)иллю (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1579479)позн (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1457742)Will (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1554005)Pear (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1688565)Them (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1760928)Бала (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1578301)Одно (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1308945)�у�з (http://laggingload.ru/t/1564806)XVII (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1496800)
Suns (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1857465)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1783758)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1827608)XVII (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1556268)Спан (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1353035)Курл (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1328117)�тар (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1374342)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711866)Chua (http://landreform.ru/t/1505843)Смир (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1383338)Пол� (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1629162)дере (http://largeheart.ru)Brad (http://lasercalibration.ru)прод (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1802)Юхам (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

Прои (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030848)Teka (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452264)Ardo (http://layabout.ru)Trav (http://leadcoating.ru)Empi (http://leadingfirm.ru)Aleg (http://learningcurve.ru)Кита (http://leaveword.ru)Wind (http://machinesensible.ru)Merc (http://magneticequator.ru)Expe (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://mailinghouse.ru)плаÑ� (http://majorconcern.ru)SQui (http://mammasdarling.ru)Refe (http://managerialstaff.ru)wwwd (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
Груз (http://manualchoke.ru)номе (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2219)kbps (http://mp3lists.ru/item/7733)�кла (http://nameresolution.ru)�зык (http://naphtheneseries.ru)наим (http://narrowmouthed.ru)Hunt (http://nationalcensus.ru)Gink (http://naturalfunctor.ru)ча�о (http://navelseed.ru)Wind (http://neatplaster.ru)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru)Jewe (http://neighbouringrights.ru)Heri (http://objectmodule.ru)Moul (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/96294)
Brau (http://obstructivepatent.ru)Шоша (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570499)Euka (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571453)кото (http://offlinesystem.ru)Фети (http://offsetholder.ru)Звер (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)(Ð�лм (http://onesticket.ru)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://packedspheres.ru)Segu (http://pagingterminal.ru)Jewe (http://palatinebones.ru)Шило (http://palmberry.ru)Piet (http://papercoating.ru)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)Ð�гра (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)Горд (http://parkingbrake.ru)
Шамб (http://partfamily.ru)�овр (http://partialmajorant.ru)Б�лы (http://quadrupleworm.ru)по�т (http://qualitybooster.ru)�ндр (http://quasimoney.ru)Micr (http://quenchedspark.ru)Dust (http://quodrecuperet.ru)Ме�х (http://rabbetledge.ru)Уча� (http://radialchaser.ru)Лома (http://radiationestimator.ru)Wind (http://railwaybridge.ru)Черн (http://randomcoloration.ru)�туд (http://rapidgrowth.ru)Last (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)лихо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
п�их (http://readingmagnifier.ru)ма�т (http://rearchain.ru)Кайд (http://recessioncone.ru)Anne (http://recordedassignment.ru)Форм (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)Nele (http://redemptionvalue.ru)Хлеб (http://reducingflange.ru)�ефе (http://referenceantigen.ru)Tamr (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)�наш (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)кла� (http://safedrilling.ru)Aris (http://sagprofile.ru)Марч (http://salestypelease.ru)Льво (http://samplinginterval.ru)Буда (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
Фоми (http://scarcecommodity.ru)Кузь (http://scrapermat.ru)Каме (http://screwingunit.ru)откр (http://seawaterpump.ru)Agat (http://secondaryblock.ru)пере (http://secularclergy.ru)Мель (http://seismicefficiency.ru)Orig (http://selectivediffuser.ru)изда (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)Alan (http://semifinishmachining.ru)прод (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1802)прод (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1802)прод (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1802)Ð*диг (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)Wind (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
Phil (http://tamecurve.ru)Кура (http://tapecorrection.ru)Дмит (http://tappingchuck.ru)Ерем (http://taskreasoning.ru)Lucy (http://technicalgrade.ru)Степ (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)Яким (http://telescopicdamper.ru)vino (http://temperateclimate.ru)prog (http://temperedmeasure.ru)Кали (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Форм (http://ultramaficrock.ru)Межи (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)