The use of popular culture

[WolfVanZandt]

Kyrat brought up something that is both an interest and an irritation to me.

"A generation that has turned to the film industry for a moral guide and quotes the sayings of franchise science fiction for motivation and decision making guidance.

Would we call that "religion" if we were on a forum that had the purpose of dealing with ethics?"

In point of fact, several movies, books, etc. have spawned outright religions. Star Wars is a major example. Lucas was a "disciple" of Joseph Campbell, an American mythologist who died in 1987. Lucas was not unhappy that Star Wars spawned a religion. The movie, by Lucas' own admission was based on the thoughts of Campbell.

The practice of quoting popular culture and celebrities as sources of expertise, wisdom, and roll models bothers me. It seems to be an extension of "if it's in print, it must be true." If a person is famous and they say something, they must know what they're talking about.

Well, no. If Russell Crowe expresses his political opinion, I'm interested, but only as an interest in an uneducated opinion. "Where did he get that idea from? Is there any basis?" But if Anthony Hopkins makes a statement about a modern composer, I'm likely to attach a good bit more importance to it because he happens to also be a concert pianist, composer, and musicologist - along with being an excellent actor.

But is popular culture unimportant? Does it say nothing?

I wouldn't think so. It is a window into the thoughts and impressions of different segments of the community. Elements of movies, books, etc. may not be "fact" (I don't even put that much stock into nonfiction) but it certainly gives an indicator of the "pulse" of certain societies - what they think and what they feel. That's important from a sociological viewpoint and, I suspect, it's pretty darned important from a survivalist viewpoint because what people think and feel drive what they do, and what they do around you is rather important to their survival.

[Rick]

A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. Well, nobody's perfect. As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.

[WolfVanZandt]

Gotta watch those census takers - they carry diseases.

[crashdive123]

I think the last cencus taker that knocked on my door soiled himself.

[Wise Old Owl]

WolfVanZandt I am not sure why you posted this... actually you don't ask a question, am I missing the point here? Hollywood mirrors the liberal California state broke religion. And California has been broke prior to the Terminator taking office. This would be my best answer, based on your post, I won't quote you so this can be deleted.

These folks are without a doubt godless heathens that pray to the Scientology of false prophets to hide their millions of tax dollars on some offshore island. Their weapons are the very movies they create. A soft, propaganda of "we think you should think like we do, but don't judge our past" mentality. They are spreading immorality, crime, brutality, murder, and of course drug life is cool to our younger generations. If you don't believe the truth imagine trying to run the Walton's series or Little House on the Pararie in today's society. We are now up to 70 + sexual predators in the last 5 weeks. Long before the spawn of religions - Nostradamus predicted the fall of Martin Luther and the spread of cults.... More to follow

[Wise Old Owl]

As the Harvey Weinstein scandal spreads like an STD throughout the entertainment industry worldwide, as the courage of those coming forward to name names inspires similar courage in others, we cannot allow ourselves to become so accustomed to the allegations that they lose their power to outrage.

Although some male victims have come forward, the alleged victims here are mostly vulnerable young women and children. Worse, so far, all of the alleged abusers are the very men whose primary responsibility in any civilized society is to protect women and children.

As a means to understand just how, yes, institutional these allegations are, here is a list (in no particular order) of the accused and their alleged misdeeds, which will be updated as needed.

Unless otherwise indicated, these stand only as allegations.

So far, 73 and counting…

Is there any doubt the entertainment industry, that Harveywood is enabling an unspeakable war on women … and children?

73. Ethan Kath – Musician

Accusation of rape.

72. Matthew Weiner – Mad Men Creator

Accused of sexual harassment.

71. Robert Knepper – Actor

Accused of sexual assault.

70. Mariah Carey – Singer, Actress

Accused of sexual harassment.

69. Jeffrey Tambor – Emmy-Winning Actor

Accused of sexual harassment.

68. Ed Westick – Actor

Accused of rape.

67. Alec Baldwin – TV Actor

Bullying and sexist behavior towards women.

66. David Guillod – Co-CEO Primary Wave Entertainment

Alleged sexual assault.

65. Unnamed Director

Alleged sexual harassment.

64. Adam Venit – Powerful Talent Agent

Suspended for allegedly groping Terry Crews.

63. NBCUniversal

Targeted in lawsuit over “inappropriate gender-based, sexual comments”

62. Kirt Webster – CEO Country Music Firm Webster PR

Multiple allegations of sexual harassment, assaulting and drugging a client.

61. Ryan Ly – CAA Agent

Fired over multiple allegations from female staffers, including groping.

60. Erik Horine – ICM Agent

Fired for “inappropriate behavior.”

59. John Grissom – Actor

Accused of molesting Corey Feldman.

58. Danny Masterson – Actor

Four accusations of rape.

57. David Corn – Reporter, Actor

Accusations of sexual touching of female staffers, rape jokes

56. Brett Ratner – Director, Powerhouse Producer Behind RatPac Entertainment

Multiple accusations of sexual assault, harassment.

55. Dustin Hoffman – Oscar-Winning Actor

Accused of sexual misconduct, groping of 17 year-old actress.

54. Jeremy Piven – Emmy Award Winning TV Star

Accused of sexually assaulting an actress.

53. Hamilton Fish – Documentary Film Producer

Suspended over allegations of sexual harassment.

52. Andy Dick – Actor/Comedian

Fired over allegations of sexual harassment, groping.

51. Warner Bros.

Allegations of sexual harassment by former producer.

50. Andrew Kramer – Lionsgate Executive

Resigned due to allegations of sexual harassment.

49. Kevin Spacey – Oscar-winning Actor

Accused of attempting to seduce a 14 year-old boy.

48. Ken Baker – E! News correspondent

Accused of sexual misconduct and harassment.

47. Rick Najera – CBS Diversity Director

Fired over sexual harassment allegations.

46. Louis C.K. – Comedian, Filmmaker

Multiple accusations of sexual misconduct.

45. Mark Halperin – Journalist, TV Producer

Multiple accusations of inappropriate sexual conduct and harassment.

44. Robert Scoble – Tech writer

Allegations of sexual harassment.

***END UPDATES

Terry Richardson – Celebrity Photographer

Accusations of sexual harassment.

Roman Polanski – Oscar-Winning Director

Admitted child rapist. Four other women claim Polanski assaulted them as minors.

David O. Russell – Oscar-nominated Director

Accused of groping,on-set verbal and physical abuse.

Oliver Stone – Oscar-Winning Director

Accused of groping a woman at a party.

Ben Affleck – Actor, Oscar-Winning Director and Screenwriter

Multiple allegations of groping, one he apologized for.

Harvey Weinstein – Oscar-Winning Producer

Removed from the board of the company he co-founded due to dozens of accusations of sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, groping and rape.

James Toback – Director, Oscar-Nominated Screenwriter

Over 200 sexual harassment allegations.

Bob Weinstein – Oscar-Winning Producer

Accused of sexual harassing a former employee.

Harry Knowles – Founder of Ain’t It Cool News

Stepped down due to allegations of sexual harassment and groping.

Devin Faraci – Movie Writer at Birth.Death.Movies

Accused of sexual assault and harassment.

Roy Price – Head of Amazon Studios

Resigned due to allegations of sexual misconduct.

Twiggy Ramiriez – Bass Player for Marilyn Manson

Accused of raping a former girlfriend.

Tyler Grasham – Talent Agent

Resigned due to allegations of sexual harassment and sexual assault from his male, underage clients. .

Netflix – One of the Most Powerful Companies In Entertainment

Settled $1.5 million sexual harassment claim filed by a heterosexual male executive who says he was harassed by male and female superiors.

Lockhart Steele – Media Director at Vox

Fired over allegations of sexual harassment.

Andy Signore – Creator of Honest Trailers

Fired due to numerous allegations of sexual harassment and misconduct.

David Blaine – Superstar Magician

Accused of drugging and raping a 21 year-old model.

Gilbert Rozon – Judge on France’s Got Talent

Suspended over sexual harassment claims.

Rupert Myers – British GQ Writer

Fired over allegations of sexual assault.

John Besh – Celebrity Chef

Accused of sexual assault and harassment.

Shadie Elnashai – Cinefamily Executive

Fired over allegations of rape and harassment.

Hadrian Belove – Cinefamily Executive

Resigned over allegations of sexual harassment.

Woody Allen – Oscar-Winning Screenwriter and Director

Accusations of child molestations. No charges were filed after an investigation.

Steven Seagal – Actor

Allegations of sexual harassment.

Chris Savino – Creator of Nickelodeon’s Loud House

Fired over allegations of sexual harassment.

Bill Cosby – Iconic Comedian, Actor

Dozens of accusations of drugging and raping women.

Below are those accused abusers who so far remain unnamed…

The pigs who preyed on 13 year-old Molly Ringwald.
The monster who sexually assaulted nine year-old America Ferrera.
The music executives who abused and allowed the abuse of Kaya Jones.
The director who sexually assaulted 16-year-old Reese Witherspoon.
The director who harassed and punished Björk.
The men who sexually assaulted Corey Haim and Corey Feldman as children.
The man who assaulted Terry Crews.
The men who assaulted James Van Der Beek.
The countless, unnamed “predators” in the fashion industry.
The man who sexually assaulted 16-year-old Laura Dern.
The doctor who molested a 13-year-old McKayla Maroney.
The TV executive who assaulted Maureen Ryan.
These harassers.
This A-List animal.
Lady Gaga’s abuser.
Gabrielle Union’s abuser.
The producer who declared a 15-year-old Jennifer Lawrence “f**kable.”

[Wise Old Owl]

here is a short list of movies.. From another website

Then there was the role that finally won Winslet that Oscar, The Reader (2008), a *cough* Weinstein Company release, where Winslet plays a sympathetic Nazi who seduces a 15-year-old boy. The sex scenes in this pretentious pail of crap are presented as erotic, as sexy. Everything about The Reader is a moral catastrophe. But Harveywood would not deny Winslet her Naked Golden Man.

Unfortunately, Winslet’s artistic depravity did not end there. In 2011, she offered her imprimatur to a known and admitted child rapist — fugitive director Roman Polanski, who admitted to drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl in 1977. By the time Winslet chose to work with him in Carnage, the world also knew that during the filming of Tess, the then-46-year-old Polanski began an affair with 15-year-old Nastassja Kinski.

There was also actress Charlotte Lewis, who, just the year before Carnage was released, publicly accused Polanski of assaulting her as a 16-year-old.

And now Winslet-the-Enabler wants a second Oscar for her role in Woody Allen’s upcoming Wonder Wheel, and the Los Angeles Times is already publishing glowing puff-pieces to aid and abet that effort.

Man alive.

This is what I mean when I say that the entire entertainment industry is just one big Harveywood, and starting this weekend, all of Harveywood’s enablers and all of Harveywood’s harassers, molesters, and rapists will kick off their five-month awards season.

And for a Harveywood so hopelessly addicted to reboots, that is what this craven award season will be treated as: a reboot, a renewal, a cleansing, a fresh start, the necessary enema to start over. Of course, this will all be another Hollywood illusion. Anyone with anything close to a moral compass understands that the only way for Harveywood to move forward is after a lengthy, in-depth Justice Department investigation.

But reality does not matter to our decadent Kate Winslet. For this is Tinseltown! Home of the Insecure Narcissist! Land of the Preening Peacock!

Therefore, renewal can only be obtained in a very specific way: Bring on the Baubles! Bring on the Trophies! Bring on the Naked Golden Man! Bring on the Me! Me! Me! Me! Me! of our glorious awards season!

Did I mention Me! Me Me! Me! Me!???

No joke, starting this weekend with the Governors Awards, this is how a rapey industry, rife with a RICO-worthy sexual abuse problem, intends to celebrate its rapey self over the next five months:

November 2017

11 – AMPAS Governors Awards
27 – Gotham Awards
28 – National Board of Review winners announced
30 – NYFCC winners announced

December 2017

9 – AWFJ EDA Awards announced
9 – European Film Awards announced
10 – British Independent Film Awards winners announced

January 2018

2 – Palm Springs International Film Festival Awards Gala
3 – NYFCC awards dinner
5 – AFI Awards luncheon
7 – Golden Globe Awards
9 – National Board of Review gala
11 – Critics’ Choice Awards
15 – NAACP Image Awards
20 – PGA Awards
21 – SAG Awards
23 – Academy Award nominations announced
26 – ACE Eddie Awards Gala
27 – Art Directors Guild Awards

February 2018

3 – DGA Awards
3 – Annie Awards
5 – Oscar Nominees Luncheon
10 – USC Scripter Awards
11 – WGA Awards
18 – BAFTA Awards
24 – 54th Annual CAS Awards

March 2018

3 – Independent Spirit Awards
4 – 90th Annual Academy Awards

My favorite part of this Narcissism Train will be the usual-usual self-righteous talk about how awful the rest of America is. And then the truly shameless will actually acknowledge Harveywood’s cancer and say something so achingly self-righteous the caviar will curdle. Nothing will change, though, because nothing ever does in a town run on Me! Me! Me! Me! Me!

Last year, as a means to protest President Trump, there was an online campaign to #CancelTheOscars.

Oddly enough, there is no campaign this year. Apparently, the Abusers and their Renfields believe the show must go on.

Alex Marlow, editor-in-chief of Breitbart News, disagrees:

Given the pain created by the Harveywood rape culture scandal and the widespread coverup, it would be obscene for Hollywood to reward itself this year. Despite the entertainment industry’s utter lack of moral authority, the Academy Awards inevitably turns into a platform for celebrities to preach at the American people, for whom they have contempt. No amount of glitz and glamour is going to make us listen. The 2018 Oscars would be one of the most tone deaf spectacles ever to take place in America. Hollywood needs to spare itself and cancel the Oscars.

But that would require a sense of decency and shame on Harveytown’s part, the ability to soul search.

Never forget…

That it in 2009, Rapey-Hollywood launched a campaign to support admitted child rapist Roman Polanski.

Or that just a few years before that, during this very same awards season, Rapey-Hollywood rained baubles and trophies and Oscars down on admitted child rapist Roman Polanski.

Or that some of the biggest names in Rapey Hollywood have proudly worked with admitted child rapist Roman Polanski.

Yes, there be monsters in Harveywood…and a pile of innocent victims so vast and so deep it is unbearable to contemplate.

And for the next five months, these evil monsters and their wicked enablers will pretend to have experienced a renewal and a turning of the page through their annual Unholy Celebration of Self.

[WolfVanZandt]

Well, the reason I posted it was so not to derail the other thread. My interest is the reaction by the members here. Thank you for your input. We concur on many points. But, then, don't you see a certain amount of hypocrisy there? The movies themselves often decry the very situations these women complain about. Movie makers try to make movies that will resonate with their fan base so they are trying to "capture the spirit of the times." They fail in certain ways, of course, but that's why there are so many academic papers of popular culture - trying to unravel the attempt, the propaganda, and what the media producers think are the spirit of the times.

People's visions often do not resemble them. Some of our greatest thinkers were horrible people in their personal lives. Often, the myth may do more to benefit mankind than the reality.

[Rick]

Does that mean I can now catch a Harvey Weinstein?

[WolfVanZandt]

Mmmmmmmaybe?

Okay, honestly, Hollywood is monsterland, but so is your neighborhood. Boycott movies? It ain't that simple.

Ray Charles sang songs about reality - one being LaLa Land. The people who are being abused go to LaLa to become famous and maybe a few are so naive as to think that nothing will happen to them, but it's their chosen profession. Why don't they know? It's sorta like me entering the medical field when I faint at the sight of blood. Destroy the movie industry? - that's the field that the abused has chosen for their life professions.

We've tweaked our economy so that, for it to work, industries have to fail. People lose their jobs, clients lose their products, stakeholders lose their shirts. Planned obsolescence isn't just a thing - it's a necessary thing. All this isn't natural, but it's the lives we, as a people, have chosen for ourselves and one that it would take massive and heroic efforts to unravel and remake into a healthy organization. When I take an economics, finance, or history course, I come away feeling like I need to pour a hole in my skull and pour in a little Clorox to clean my head out.

[Seniorman]

" ... In point of fact, several movies, books, etc. have spawned outright religions. Star Wars is a major example. Lucas was a "disciple" of Joseph Campbell, an American mythologist who died in 1987. Lucas was not unhappy that Star Wars spawned a religion. The movie, by Lucas' own admission was based on the thoughts of Campbell. ..."

The practice of quoting popular culture and celebrities as sources of expertise, wisdom, and roll models bothers me. It seems to be an extension of "if it's in print, it must be true." If a person is famous and they say something, they must know what they're talking about.


But is popular culture unimportant? Does it say nothing?


Culture, throughout history and locations, is a continuum. No matter where or when, culture changes, mostly in bits and pieces, incrementally, to accommodate new religious beliefs, daily necessities, life styles, politics, conquerors and conquered, and migrations, etc. Culture -- however one defines it -- is not particularly static nor unchanging. Witness the history of "culture" in the American Colonies and then the United States, even up to the present. Many cultures were present, including the various cultures of the American Indians.

As for George Lucas, Star Wars, and Joseph Campbell, I would submit that Lucas got the idea for Star Wars not from Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces, but a derivative of the old Saturday afternoon science fiction serials, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

Campbell wrote and published The Hero With a Thousand Faces quite a few years after the filming of those old serials.

If you ever watched those old serials -- and I watched them every Saturday afternoon at the local theater with popcorn in one hand and a Coke in the other -- you'll remember that each episode after about 12 minutes, ended with a cliffhanger. Will Buck survive? Will Flash be able to save the fair damsel in dire distress before the Darth Vader character kills her? Come to the theater next Saturday and find out.

And yes, there was an all powerful force in the serials, the Darth Vader of the time. The Darth Vader of Star Wars even wore the same black cloak and had unimaginable powers. I do not know what "religion" was spawned by Lucas' Star Wars, but it was not Scientology. Scientology, created by the science fiction writer, L. Ron Hubbard, was already up and running years before Star Wars was filmed.

Think of Star Wars as a continuous serial, only with far better graphics, film technology, CGI, specials effects, and sound. Nevertheless, very episodic with a cliffhanger every few minutes. Will Luke live? Will Han Solo manage to save Princess Leah? Will Darth Vader destroy the hero and the "good planet?" Will Luke save everyone and stop the evil doers? Etc., etc., etc.

By the way, in the old serials, the characters Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were both played by Buster Crabbe, a very popular "B" actor of the time. If you go to imdb.com, you can look him up.

Anyway, that's my take on both "culture" and Star Wars. Not to take anything away from the talent of George Lucas. He's a good writer (story teller) and movie maker. But I'll bet the farm he used to go to the picture show on Saturday afternoons and watched the same serials I watched. :laugh: :thumbs_up:

S.M.

[WolfVanZandt]

Okay. Lucas relationship with Campbell is well known and no speculation. Lucas cites Campbell as the major inspiration for Star Wars. But, of course he took away from the matinees also.

[Seniorman]

Okay. Lucas relationship with Campbell is well known and no speculation. Lucas cites Campbell as the major inspiration for Star Wars. But, of course he took away from the matinees also.

WolfVanZandt, I am not familiar with Lucas' relationship with Campbell as I have not met Lucas, even though we are both members of the same union and both current, the Writers Guild of America. If I ever run into Lucas, perhaps I'll ask him about Campbell, Buck Rogers, and Flash Gordon. :yes: I doubt, however, that will occur as I am retired in Idaho and he lives somewhere up in the Napa Valley wine country of Calif.

A little anecdote, re Star Wars. Before the flick was released, I was invited to a pre-release screening at the large theater on the 20th Century Fox lot in L.A. After the screening, which I and my wife thoroughly enjoyed, I said to her, "Helluva picture but an updated combo of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. " My wife did not really understand what I meant as she was younger than I and had not seen all those Saturday afternoon serials of my ill spent youth ... more's the pity. :thumbup1:

As I said, just my take on the movie.

S.M.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I try not to think about these scum sucking pigs. I watch precious little TV and when I do I don't watch movies. I hate liars, and actors and actresses are professional liars. People screwing their way to the top is nothing new in any profession. People who are true professionals don't do it or tolerate it. Except in Brothels.

Alan

[hayshaker]

what ever happen to wholesome televison, you know
the andy griffith show
the waltons
little house onthe paririe
wow has this world gone mad

[WolfVanZandt]

Frankly, Alan, I wish I didn't have to think about modern civilization at all, but, like I said, I have eyes-wide-open syndrome. But the other side of the coin is called "isolationism" and that leaves you wide open in another, somewhat more devious way.

Hayshaker. What entertains animals is to see what happens to other animals. Chimpanzees don't laugh because they're happy, they laugh because something bad happens to someone else and not them. If a wolf is smiling, you need to get your hand away from them. It's been a long time since civilization has been sane and I'm not so sure it ever has been.

A large proportion of humor on the Andy Griffith Show, for instance, came from pointing out how funny mentally retarded people are.

Some of why people watch tv and movies (and even the news) is to see that, as nasty as they are, there are a lot of other people that are quite a bit nastier. And even to justify their own nastiness. Under the circumstances, it's pretty easy to ignore the fact that what you're watching are not facts. On the other hand, media normalizes behavior. Do you hate your neighbor? Well, that's okay, the funny people on tv hate theirs too, so it must be alright. Domestic violence? Heh, the Honeymooners did it! (Pow! Alice! To the moon!). Racism? Wow! Archie Bunker, my hero! That retard down the street? Yeah, I laugh at him - so does Andy.

That was sorta the point I was getting at - media normalizes the behavior of consumers. That's why it can be an indicator of culture. Popular media makes people feel better about their own flaws be either showing them worse or by saying that, after all, everybody else is like that.

[hayshaker]

at the risk of sounding totally hipicritical, the thing is this.
one day many decades ago were watching i love lucy in b&w ofcourse.
and then as the decades pass along incrementally like a snake
strangiling a rat. we have slowly been sucked into this whole
new world of demonic tv. one day it's lucy next it's the walking dead.
given who runs the disney channel if they were to do a remake of

the waltons it would resemble softcore porn no doubt.
and the people by and large would ecept it.

[WolfVanZandt]

Which sorta begs my point.

Except.....I seem to remember people back then..you know, it was pretty cool how everyone had a cocktail bar in their home. And Ricky was always so aggravated. And, for some reason, they slept alone (I think I would have preferred to stay out of their bedroom.) And I still remember "Pow! Zoom!".

Y'know. I don't think things were that much better back then - they were just kept out of sight.

We never had to lock our doors, but there were a lot of folks that pretty much lived in fear down the street.

I remember things looking pretty good as long as I took care to only look out from my own eyes. But, alas, even as a kid, I couldn't ignore things.

[madmax]

I knew about the bad in our society very early. Like late 60's early 70's. I knew what the "casting couch" was at about puberty. I knew the TV was fake. Well, except the war movies. Dad let us stay up late for those. I thought that was what war was. I knew right from wrong from as far back as I remember. I knew gender dysphoria and all that stuff was just too weird. I knew I had to get a scholarship to go to college because both of my parents put themselves through college. I joined the Navy for the GI Bill. I knew what was what. Maybe my parents? Teachers? Community? Maybe it's just not brain surgery.

You wanna be a good guy or a bad guy? Cut and dried.

[Rick]

I figured out right from wrong early on. Wrong always had to do with cutting your own switch. It wasn't real hard to figure the difference between the two the second time around.

[WolfVanZandt]

Grph. I remember the switch.

Cultural trends are cyclic - usually from generation to generations. Mustaches and beards go through four generation cycles.

Popular culture follows similar trends. TV and movies haven't been around long enough to see more than one cycle but the characteristics of the early popular media was escapism. Viewers didn't want to see reality - that was in their houses. It made them uneasy. Now people want to see hyper-reality. They want to be consoled that others are worse and they can be better.

Even Superman and Batman have become more "realistic". They didn't use to kill people. Of course, if it wasn't human - it better hide.

I'm amused by all the people that thrill to the exploits of heros and I'm thinking, "Guy! You live on your couch."

[Rick]

I think McGyver was so popular, in fact surviving the Apocalypse and Zombie hordes is so popular, is because so many people truly believe than in a pinch..."yeah, I could do that". Not me, brother. I'm sure I'll just be another shadow on the wall of the atomic blast. Look for the one clicking his heels. I'm at least going to trying and go out with style.

[WolfVanZandt]

Honestly, McGuyver was a lot like Paladin Press. I used to buy the books for entertainment purposes but I had enough background knowledge to know that, if I tried half the projects, they would (nt "might" - "would") blow up in my face.

But you're very probably right. I hope I don't make understanding popular culture sound simple. There's a lot of factors that play into why people like the entertainments they like.

Ever see Prometheus? When the scientists were in the cave playing with the cute little thing that would end up eating them, I was howling with great, good humor and delight for the same reasons I love the Darwin Awards.

Frankly, Rick, I want you folks with me. Apocalypse, I'm convinced, could be a real blast.

[Wise Old Owl]

Just an observation and I am not about to argue, but did it occur to you that popular culture borders on schizophrenia?

[Antonyraison]

popular culture has always been a thing, people have always been influenced by what seems Popular at the times,
I think just with the advent of technology those trends are pushed out much faster and more readily accessible.
There is a saying, there is nothing new under the sun.
I suppose even going against the grain so to speak you will still likely find a small group of people that would fit your new "trend/culture"
Not sure how or why this is a problem.

[WolfVanZandt]

Owl, of course. They started talking about the insane society back in the 60s. Why do you sound like I disagree with you? I just don't think griping about it is going to do any good.

Anton, I agree, there is nothing new under the sun (that matters). But old trends are exponential and, with time, can become dangerously steep.

[Rick]

I would imagine Grog and Rog complained when those crazy kids lashed a stick to a rock. How could that be any better than just a rock? Just a fad.

[hunter63]

Quote>


The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.<
Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277 (1953).

This use prompted Malcolm S. Forbes to write an editorial on youth.—Forbes, April 15, 1966, p. 11. In that same issue, under the heading “Side Lines,” pp. 5–6, is a summary of the efforts of researchers and scholars to confirm the wording of Socrates, or Plato, but without success. Evidently, the quotation is spurious.

But sums it up......Can't say...wasn't there, but heard it from "Guy at the saloon"



http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html

[WolfVanZandt]

Actually, we might not know anything Socrates said because everything we know about it is what was written by Plato, Aristophanes, and Xenophone, and they had ulterior motives pretty much like all the "historians" from modern times back.

Rick, you're right. There's been a lot of change since....well, since it all started. But, then, on some levels /we/ haven't changed at all since we've been "we". The biggest change is that there's a lot more of us now then there used to be.

[hunter63]

I guess I should have used bold on the line....
Evidently, the quotation is spurious.

But does illustrate these thought have been kicked around for a loooog time.

[WolfVanZandt]

It's not too terribly uncommon for people to express the idea that fiction is a "lie" but I think that's an oversimplistic view. Plato said that imaginative poets should be excluded from his utopia for that reason.

Fiction, though, is a form of communication that's, in many ways, different from regular dialog.

My culture is very different from Mainstream culture to the point that people like me have a hard time getting our points across to Mainstreamers. But there are languages that can convey ideas that are "ineffable". Music and poetry, for instance, conveys emotions using rhythms and intonations with or without accompanying words.

Movies and other fictions are in the same family as fables.

A modern movie that conveys a powerful and important message is The Fountain. The protagonist is tying to find a cure for the cancer that's killing his wife and it takes up all his time. In the end, his wife dies and all the time they might have had together is lost. My father worked most of his life and, in his culture, that was his part in the family - material support, but until after high school, I didn't much even know him. He worked so hard, he was barely even a part of the family. Someone can say, "It's more important to build a relationship than to support it with material things," but the movie brings it home in a powerful way. It's only a lie if you mistake it for a literal, factual account. The movie doesn't purport to be that, though so it, itself, isn't the lie. The lie is only in the person who makes the mistake.

[Phaedrus]

The Fountain was a haunting, beautiful film! Good point. Some people spend so much time making a living that they scarcely get to live.

[Wise Old Owl]

what ever happen to wholesome televison, you know
the andy griffith show
the waltons
little house onthe paririe
wow has this world gone mad

You forgot one... The Bill Cosby Show... or just another Hollowood pedophile...

And don't forget Rupert Murdock, Hugh Hefner and Woody Allen.