DIY Solar and Wind turbine plans?

[bladefrenzy]

Sorry Mods, I wasn't sure were to put this. I am looking for any info to help out with my crash course in solar power or wind power. Really prefer DIY type stuff to save money. I'd be very grateful for any help. Thanks, Steve

[Rick]

Here's a wind turbine Canid is working on:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1566&highlight=turbine

[Sourdough]

"MOTHER EARTH NEWS back in the 60's or 70's but out a book that was only on Wind and Solar, and home Hydro systems, that any semi-stoned hippie could build.

[Chuck]

New England solar they will help you figure out what you need. I got most of our solar set up with them they are very helpful.

[Rick]

Here's a link to MEN. Thanks, Hopeak. I forgot about them.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/2007-06-01/Improved-Wind-Power.aspx

[trax]

"MOTHER EARTH NEWS back in the 60's or 70's but out a book that was only on Wind and Solar, and home Hydro systems, that any semi-stoned hippie could build.

You should never over-estimate semi-stoned hippies.

[Rick]

Oh, Trax. So close. Semi-Stony hippies.

[trax]

Thanks for the correction, Rick, I probably would have caught it if it had been in the other thread...it was only a stony's throw away.

[Chris]

I've seen home DIY hydro power a couple times before. If you have a river on your property you can do it, no damn dam required. It was totally macgyvered. Their river had a slight fall to it, a foot over a good distance, they had a chute that took water from up on the river, and brought it down the river, then spilled it over a water wheel. the water wheel was hooked up to a very basic generator, which then was hooked up to some electrical thing (inverter? whatever... something to make it safe for your house's grid) then hooked up to the house.

I imagine you could just do it with a water wheel in a river, without needing the chute at all, if your water moves fast enough or is deep enough.

If your water is shallow but fast you'd put a smaller wheel in it and connect more or less to the generator. If your water is deep and slow put in a big wheel that'll catch much more water and then run it through a gearbox to kick up the RPMs to power the generator.

Some links:

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_experiments_waterwheel.html
http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_hydro.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=425665&in_page_id=1965

[Chris]

My question is this...

If you have groundwater you have a pump that is on 24/7 and any excess water gets piped out of the house, to a pond usually.

What if instead you piped that excess water through a hydro turbine? Would there be a net electricity gain? Would the turbine generate more water than the pump required?

[Ken]

My question is this...

If you have groundwater you have a pump that is on 24/7 and any excess water gets piped out of the house, to a pond usually.

What if instead you piped that excess water through a hydro turbine? Would there be a net electricity gain? Would the turbine generate more water than the pump required?

Sorry, the simple answer is "no."

"Second law of thermodynamics

The second law is a bit more complex than the first law, but basically it says that any time you do work, including any time you make an energy transformation, some of the starting energy is going to be lost as heat. So when you drive a car some of the gasoline's energy is lost right a way as heat, some gets turned into mechanical energy to move the car. Even some of this mechanical energy is also lost as heat. For instance if you feel your car's tires at the end of a trip they will be hot from friction with the road. This heat is an energy loss and is a consequence of the second law.

Implications of the second law:

The second law has major implications.

First, it means that no process is 100% efficient, so there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine."

http://staff.jccc.net/PDECELL/metabolism/thermodyn.html

[Rick]

But you would generate more than you are currently, which is nothing. So you would have a net gain even if it is less than the amount of power to run the pump. If the water wheel is enclosed (think water pump) then you should be able to run two or three depending on the vertical distance the water has to drop.

[zaebra]

My question is this...

If you have groundwater you have a pump that is on 24/7 and any excess water gets piped out of the house, to a pond usually.

What if instead you piped that excess water through a hydro turbine? Would there be a net electricity gain? Would the turbine generate more water than the pump required?

you can't gain more electricity (energy) out of the system than existed beforehand. you lose electricity because of the energy coefficiency of the turbine and the pump. any energy you can generate by using the water and gravity is reclaiming the energy you spent to pump the water up and counteract gravity in the first place. you can't profit from that equation, but you can reduce its overall impact.

in case of waterwheels, the energy you are harvesting is gravity, which was originally counteracted by evaporation and condensation (it snowed in the mountains). sometimes, you can harvest the same water's gravity energy many times (which is why the Columbia river has so many dams).

i, too, am very interested in building small-scale generators for solar, wind, and other power sources. an instructable i found said to use a late 70's GM alternator with a built-in voltage regulator (the regulator is extremely important, or else your batteries will blow up) and just turn the shaft. you hook it up to some sort of rotational force (engine, water wheel, wind mill, hamsters, whatever) and then wire it to a bank of batteries. you can use a common DC to AC converter to plug in appliances after that. keep in mind that if you want to attach it to your house and the grid, you'll be looking at a thousands of dollars of equipment to make sure you and the grid are safe from each other.

i'm interested to see anyone's projects that they've done and what kind of real-world performance they've seen, if anyone here has made their own power generators.

http://www.thefarm.org/charities/i4at/surv/tow02077.htm

[Rick]

You don't need to spend that kind of money. Use a gravity switch. When commercial power is running it holds the switch open to the batteries (It has an electro magnet inside). When commercial power fails the gravity switch drops and voila! you are on batteries. When commercial power restores it opens the switch to the batteries and you are back on commercial. That's what most generators use.

[bladefrenzy]

Thanks Guys, everyone's been a big help!

[zaebra]

You don't need to spend that kind of money. Use a gravity switch. When commercial power is running it holds the switch open to the batteries (It has an electro magnet inside). When commercial power fails the gravity switch drops and voila! you are on batteries. When commercial power restores it opens the switch to the batteries and you are back on commercial. That's what most generators use.

yes, the setup you propose would work if you just want your power generation to be the backup if the grid fails. the expensive equipment i was talking about is if you want to have your power generation equipment hooked up all the time as the primary power generator, and then have the grid as the backup or excess system.

if you just want a backup power generation system, then by all means use a gravity switch, or a .59 cent light switch would work as well. :)

[Rick]

Double pole single throw.

[wildWoman]

It'll be a huge money saver if you can cut your electricity needs waaay down before even getting alternative power. If you can use a root cellar instead of a fridge, get by without a freezer, run your lights on something else, have an energy efficient laptop, get rid of TV and stereo in case you have that, get a wind-up radio....etc etc
The problem with alternative energy is storing the power. Combined systems such as hydro and wind, or solar and wind are better than getting just wind or solar. You may have not much sun to charge the system in the winter, but might still have enough wind. Hydro might be the best option as long as the water source doesn't quit in the winter. Taylor your power consumption to when your system is charging the most, if you can.
Also, you will need a generator to completely charge up the batteries every now and then if your system is not big enough. And get good batteries!! They are what makes your system tick. No use buying new cheapo batteries every 3 years if you could have bought batteries that last 6 years or longer for a bit more money.
Also consider a bicyce charger, if your needs are really small. Powered by you, sitting on your bike.

[Rick]

For those of you off grid (anyone really), one of the things I think you would have to be wary of is power vampires. Those appliances that use power behind the scenes to run things like sensors or clocks. The more you can reduce the better off you will be. Here's an article that might help.

http://www.grinningplanet.com/2004/10-26/vampire-power-electricity-article.htm

[dragonjimm]

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/ is a great place to start. free catalog has faq about solar,hydro and wind.
also http://www.backwoodshome.com/ is a good place to look for self reliance.

[dragonjimm]

i wont to build an underground house powered with solar or hydro with solar or wind as backup. my plans call for 24 large batteries at least till the kids leave home.

[The Merlin]

It is definitely possible to achieve near-independence in energy consumption, through solar and wind initiatives. Some systems can be set up in a backyard and provide 80% of a typical home's power for very little cost.

Merlin

[The Merlin]

Oops, forgot to leave a resource - for example, check out www.solarpowerhomenow.com

[crashdive123]

The Merlin - while that all looks very interesting, I've got to ask - is that your website? If so, it's cool to have it in your signature as you do, but not in the body of your post. Since you would like us to check out the site, how about heading over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks.