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LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 10:43 AM
Was interested to know your technique. I've only made/slept in one for three nights, and it wasn't that comfortable. They also take a lot of time and energy which is not so much fun in the cold. Guess the most important thing is to have the door area real low and have entrance slope so the pad is a good three feet above, keeping out the cold and keeping in the heat. Trying to figure out how to post this picture...

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 11:21 AM
There it is! But how do I get it to load big n pretty on the page?

DOGMAN
05-13-2008, 11:52 AM
One thing I always do is build them right where flat ground begins to slope up- so there is a natural snow load there- pack the snow down then tunnel in. Also on your bed platform, carve out small little drainage ditches so the melt water you create from your body heat runs off- not pools up. Also, I always have a couple of small vent holes to keep air circulating. I have found with just the door for air- it gets to warm in there and you start getting more dampness- which leads it to feeling colder in there in the middle of the night- because it becomes a wet 40 degrees as opposed to a dry 30 degrees....does that make sense?

Also, I use two foam pads on my sleeping platform- and I don't use thermarest style air pads. The foam pads act as good insulators and keep you warmer because none of the cold air from the snow underneath gets through...the thermarest style are much colder.

Lastly, candlelight in a snow cave is really primal...always take a candle.

Rick
05-13-2008, 11:58 AM
The pics will enlarge just by clicking on it. You'll see it full size. If you want it to display large then you need to link to it. Here's a sticky on posting pictures that might help.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1318

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 12:13 PM
thanks Rick. and Montana, you're right, there's nothing cooler than a candlelit quinzee.

wildWoman
05-13-2008, 12:15 PM
I find them not really practical for winter trips; there's no way of not getting soaked, at least in my experience. More of a base camp thing, I guess.

DOGMAN
05-13-2008, 01:29 PM
I find them not really practical for winter trips; there's no way of not getting soaked, at least in my experience. More of a base camp thing, I guess.

Agreed, the trouble is moisture control. Its a catch 22 really...you want to be warm, but when you get too warm it starts melting and then you get wet and cold. In college my friends and I would go out and build huge ones that had alot of air space and would sleep 4 or 5 people...those were nice because they didn't get so hot. But the smaller ones like in the photo often get wet and damp because of trapped warm air melting the thing.

Then for a while, when on solo winter camping trips I'd dig a snow trench and then cover it with a canvas (breathable material...not a regular tarp) manty , and then dig little grooves on both sides of the trench for run off. Combine this with two sleeping pads and a winter sleeping bag and this really works much nicer than a snow cave, plus its quick and easy.

Now, I just roll out a paco pad, and my Wiggy's negative 60 bag and sleep out under the stars! If its stormy- I just pitch my OR bivy in conjucntion with paco and Wiggy. Both are way easier and warmer than a snow cave.

canid
05-13-2008, 11:44 PM
first off, you guys seem to be on two different pages, as quinze shelters and snow cave shelters are two different animals, in terms of construction [and appropriateness of choice, depending on weather conditions].

the practical considerations of staying in one are similar though, and in my experience i find it critical to smooth the walls inside to a gloss after the air has warmed up enough to consolidate the inner layer, so that thaw and condensation run down the sides, and to trench/channel the sides around and out towards the door if there is any chance of significant thawing.

ventilation is another great consideration, as i'm sure you all know, but it bears repeating.

for my thinking, snow shelter are best for long term need [again, depending on the weather conditions] or for 'no other choice' situations, or as many of us will know; for weekend enjoyment when you feel the need to play like a child :D

[one man's oppinion(s)]

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 11:59 PM
Can you explain the difference? I always thought they were the same thing...

canid
05-14-2008, 12:37 AM
a snow cave is any shelter dug out from a drift or deposit of snow, however it is found or made, can describe many different setups, and generally requires the snow to be consolidated, a quinze shelter is specifically one made from the deliberate application of layers of unconsolidated snow, generally when sufficient consolidated snow can not be found, so that it consolidates as it settles, and the interior is then dug out.

DOGMAN
05-14-2008, 12:55 AM
Canid thanks, I always thought they are the same thing....that the words are interchangeable. I see now they are not, and I was indeed talking "snow caves"....I have always lived in an area with ample snow coverage- so we never build them up...we bore them out. But, in Boy Scouts many moons ago my scout leader had us build, what he called quinzees in typical "snow cave" fashion. So, I've been confused for a long time....thanks again for clarifying.