German preps requirement

[kyratshooter]

I saw this a little earlier and the reports are that it is becoming more a "requirement" than a suggestion.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/22/germany-may-warn-public-to-stockpile-food-and-water-in-case-of-attack-report.html

10 days of food and water required as part of the national Civil Defense plan, along with warnings that the German people need to be more supportive of their national defense structure.

Germany has been on a state of "high alert" for months.

Along with the food/water stash they are also including emergency cash and emergency fuel be stored.

[hunter63]

I saw that.....who is going to attack them....?

[kyratshooter]

Not sure.

Probably in anticipation of their old friends to the east due to the 2012 time of commission of the study.

In the present it is a good idea due to the constant terror attacks. Eventually they will hit the transit networks and electrical supply grid a vital blow.

Germany is also suffering the effect of spending so little on defense for the past 20 years. 1.8% of GNP, far behind GB and France, 4th in Europe and not enough to maintain internal safety. They had to "borrow" troops from Austria to cover all the hot spots during the last terror attack.

They have fewer than 60,000 in their entire military and the U.S. has 40,000 troops in Germany, so we have almost as big an army in Germany as they do, and we spend more on German defense than Germany does.

All the while they are considered the economic powerhouse of the EU.

[hunter63]

I would think the "attack" would be more of the terrorist action....so having a 10 day supply seems prudent......
Lots of stuff goes to heck quick.... when the power goes out....or you are in lock-down.

[natertot]

I like the idea in general. I think in the US, 30 days of food/water, a firearm with 100 rounds, and a first aid kit with first aid certification should be required!

Interesting enough, I was listening to NPR News earlier as they were talking about the flooding in LA. It took the govt 7 days to get down there to hand out the applications for any assistance whatsoever, including food! They aren't anticipating any assistance to actually begin for another 3-5 days! Kind of makes me scratch my head because FEMA recommends 3 days of supplies, but it takes 10-13 days to begin to give assistance.

I agree with Germany's stance and wish we would emplement a home defense plan in this country.

[Rick]

I think it's a sound concept. Given the start of Russia in the Ukraine and Russia's history with Poland and the Czech Republic it doesn't seem that far fetched. Beyond that, there is always the terrorist threat and God help us all if they start using bio or chemical weapons. Sheltering in place may be the only option.

The real kicker is for the folks who cannot afford to stock 10 days of anything. Those who are having trouble purchasing enough for today will have an impossible task of meeting that goal.

[crashdive123]

I think Germany's concern may be from civil unrest over their immigration policies and from terror attacks.

[hunter63]

I think Germany's concern may be from civil unrest over their immigration policies and from terror attacks.

Bingo...I think you are correct.

[harrypalmer]

Germans HAD to have a store of food until the end of the cold war so this idea is hardly new.

[druid]

I saw that.....who is going to attack them....?

Go on YouTube and punch in "Germany, Muslim Immigration" and view a few of the HUNDREDS of videos showing the assaultive behavior and absolute devastation the "refugees" have caused.


I like the idea in general. I think in the US, 30 days of food/water, a firearm with 100 rounds, and a first aid kit with first aid certification should be required!

Interesting enough, I was listening to NPR News earlier as they were talking about the flooding in LA. It took the govt 7 days to get down there to hand out the applications for any assistance whatsoever, including food! They aren't anticipating any assistance to actually begin for another 3-5 days! Kind of makes me scratch my head because FEMA recommends 3 days of supplies, but it takes 10-13 days to begin to give assistance.

I agree with Germany's stance and wish we would emplement a home defense plan in this country.

Agreed but 100 rounds? Pfffffff.......I have 210 rounds in my weapon+go-bag/vest alone - not to mention a few extra boxes in the backpack. I also have my 2ndary firearm with 72 rounds [4 mags total] as well......and a KA*BAR, IFAK, water and some 'instant' meals [not requiring heat/fire].

If you are sheltering in place, I also agree with 30 days of food but for each person. Include 2 gallons of water per day, per person.

...and we do have a defense plan to implement in this Country - it's called the Constitution and the Citizen's/State Militia. All you need to do is find one in your area. The problem is you don't want to join a bunch of whack-a-doodles so I suggest before joining one, meet with the Commander over lunch and have a list of questions for him. Think of it as an "interview" process and some of the most important questions should include -
1. [A statement, really] Inform him you have no intentions of being one of those "subversive-type" groups that's out to 'overthrow the government' like what was reported on the Michigan Militia from the 70s.
2. Ask: If there is a vetting process for members and then if any of them have a criminal background - and if so, for what offense[s]? You don't want to be associated with criminal behavior.
3. Ask: Exactly what is expected of the membership and [given your talents/effectiveness], exactly what is expected of YOU.
4. Ask: what equipment is required, how often is training, are there any fees [like membership] associated and for what purpose/to what end.
5., 6., 7., 8......
Keep coming up with direct questions and require direct answers. If he refuses to answer or skirts an issue [that is reasonable to be answered], pay for lunch and than him for his time. You should feel 100% comfortable with the Commander and if you aren't, don't join.


I think Germany's concern may be from civil unrest over their immigration policies and from terror attacks.

DINGDINGDING!!! Not to mention Merkel kicking families out of their homes to give refugees a place to stay.......

[kyratshooter]

I came across this list on another forum and it has direct relevance to the German requirements. The Swiss implemented this procedure in 2015 apparently, using a list carried over from their past requirements and they have long been known as a prepared society. I am surprised they ever allowed the preps to stop.

I stole this link from Winnie. Way to go girl!

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/OEWatch/201503/Europe_01.html

There is another way to look at mandatory preps. They are required, which some would view as an intrusion. However, it is obvious that if preps are not mandatory people will not have them. The mandatory status eliminates the need to get a souse "on board", explaining to the in-laws how you are not a nut job, getting sideways glances from someone that accidentally opens the pantry door, worrying about the kids spilling the beans, or worrying about neighbors pounding on your door to be turned away during a crisis.

You are simply following the law.


Druid, I am not joining a militia, I am not interviewing for a militia, I am not vetting a militia and I am not having a list of militia equipment in my possession. Neither am I going to be seen in public with a militia commander or pay for his lunch.

I am not placing my welfare, survival, ability to cope, or react to a crisis into the hands of some PFC clerk typist that now thinks they are a General, with his wife as the Col. and his 14 year old kid as First Sgt.

I have had some sideways contact with some of these groups in a commercial function and have not seen a single one which could function under any form of pressure. You enter a group of this kind with the full knowledge that they will set you up, sell you out, and one out of ten members is an under cover federal agent.

It ain't going to happen.

[Rick]

Militia. Um, yeah...no.

[WalkingTree]

a firearm with 100 rounds
That's all, a hundred rounds?



...I am not joining a militia...have not seen a single one which could function under any form of pressure...they will set you up, sell you out...
Heh...arg.

A militia, or group, is fine. Maybe. But it's all about which group. And knowing how to judge and choose them. And that might mean not conventionally being part of a group.

[druid]

I came across this list on another forum and it has direct relevance to the German requirements. The Swiss implemented this procedure in 2015 apparently, using a list carried over from their past requirements and they have long been known as a prepared society. I am surprised they ever allowed the preps to stop.

I stole this link from Winnie. Way to go girl!

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/OEWatch/201503/Europe_01.html

There is another way to look at mandatory preps. They are required, which some would view as an intrusion. However, it is obvious that if preps are not mandatory people will not have them. The mandatory status eliminates the need to get a souse "on board", explaining to the in-laws how you are not a nut job, getting sideways glances from someone that accidentally opens the pantry door, worrying about the kids spilling the beans, or worrying about neighbors pounding on your door to be turned away during a crisis.

You are simply following the law.


Druid, I am not joining a militia, I am not interviewing for a militia, I am not vetting a militia and I am not having a list of militia equipment in my possession. Neither am I going to be seen in public with a militia commander or pay for his lunch.

I am not placing my welfare, survival, ability to cope, or react to a crisis into the hands of some PFC clerk typist that now thinks they are a General, with his wife as the Col. and his 14 year old kid as First Sgt.

I have had some sideways contact with some of these groups in a commercial function and have not seen a single one which could function under any form of pressure. You enter a group of this kind with the full knowledge that they will set you up, sell you out, and one out of ten members is an under cover federal agent.

It ain't going to happen.

I'm not saying you have to....just offering it up as a possibility. On one side of a coin, you already have millions who are already in that "militia" or "III%" mindset - in that they already and individually subscribe to a "cold dead hands" or "when guns are outlawed, I'll be an outlaw" kind of opinion, it only makes more sense to at least be organized with like-minded individuals out to protect their freedoms. The other side of that coin is trying to figure out which one is the "right" one and for the reasons you said. Though since you seem dead set against it, I'll offer no more suggestions on the matter.


That's all, a hundred rounds?

Heh...arg.

A militia, or group, is fine. Maybe. But it's all about which group. And knowing how to judge and choose them. And that might mean not conventionally being part of a group.

Agreed. I have to be 100% honest here though....I'm split 50/50 on yes or no to joining one. My reasons are as stated above, both by myself and Kyra. Of the [very] few around me, the closest one has a "Commander" who claims former US Army service and has a YT channel. I like [i]what he has to say - but he sounds like quite the bore when you hear him talk. It's not what he's saying, it's his lack of oratory skills. To make it worse, he's not even publicly speaking - he's rambling off into a video camera with what I perceive to be "the thunder of nothing." Now, I cannot speak to his military service, nor his role in any wartime activity - but to me if you were military, you need to have a bit of a commanding voice - not just in what you say but in how you say it. He's not inspiring in the slightest and that bothers me.

The other side of that coin is as I've said previously and in other threads/posts.....I'm quite the loner because I'm a pessimist by nature [about human nature]...although I do have about a dozen close friends and workmates that I would absolutely meet up with to share resources and security. I trust them implicitly - half of them are former military, three of which were US Marines. 2 of them being E-6, one an E-4 - and one more who was both US Marines-then-later-US Army, for a total of 12 years of service. All of them have seen combat [some more than others] and all of them share my vision, concerns and ideals. These are all guys who lead from the front, four of them are workmates on the same shift as me. In fact, the 5 of us drill together and make quite the fire team [though I'm the only one without military service]. The one E-6 Marine is also my Lieutenant, who lives 1/3 of a mile from me. He's actually the reason I built my black and tan DMR. Long story short, he and I were at my privately built range and I was toying around with my one AR build...taking long shots [175 yards] with iron sights. He's watching me pelt pumpkins [a bit larger than head-sized] from the bench with this weird look on his face. he went to his truck and pulled out his DMR and put up 25/300m battle-zero targets at the 250 yard mark [which makes that target really small LOL] and had me shooting that with his rifle. He said that I have a "nack" for this type of shooting [probably the 30+ years of big game hunting] because I rarely [and I do mean RARELY] shoot to those distances.

Anyway, I get what you are saying and all said and done, we should all have items stored for emergencies. My own thoughts on the matter are [and my target is] having enough of everything I need for a year [per person, X's 6]. That's a lot of stash and takes quite a long time to develop...but that's my goal.

[natertot]

The listed amounts that I posted earlier is just a minimum suggestion for a national preparedness mandate. Of course, more than that would still meet the minimum and never hurts. If you think that is all I have, well, ya don't really know me.

"militia" style groups are heavily frowned upon in my area. Kyrat is less than an hour from me and I can tell from his posting that he has full understanding of what militia in our area means. He is right, they are to be completely avoided. In reality, militia in our area are nothing more than "gangs" declaring war on anything gov't or gov't related under the false pretense of patriotism. Not something you want associated with in any way.

There is nothing wrong with grouping with like minded people. I know several people that prepare for various things in various ways and know mutual support would be welcomed. Nothing would be for free, but for a little trade or a little assistance, we would work together to help each other out. Those that choose to do nothing, contribute nothing, and then expect help, well, good luck to them.

[WalkingTree]

druid

I do have about a dozen close friends and workmates that I would absolutely meet up with to share resources and security. I trust them implicitly
And that's possibly the kind of militia to be a member of. One that already exists. No need to seek one out.


natertot

If you think that is all I have, well, ya don't really know me.
And that's the way it should be, huh.

[natertot]

And that's the way it should be, huh.

Yep.......

[madmax]

I agree with Crash on the "Why?"
I agree with Druid on the ammo.
I agree with Kyratshooter on militias (I've had similar experience).

There. That was an easy post.

BTW. FL has seen runs at the grocery stores and Home Depots right before a hurricane. Not to the extent Germany is seeing their food run but...

[druid]

druid

And that's possibly the kind of militia to be a member of. One that already exists. No need to seek one out.



Well, the problem with this is this ^^ group is that it's not a Militia [per se]........though in critically thinking the matter, I guess it could be if pressed into service. A Citizen's/State Militia's role is to fight Tyrannical government [en masse] and restore order and governing power back to the People. This is not our primary intent but it definitely could be a secondary goal, if given the appropriate situation and reasonable opportunity. Each of us have similar enough [but varying enough to be useful as a group] skill sets that simply augment each other nicely. The fact that we are so dissimilar in life and that we all get along so well together is truly uncommon [and downright scary sometimes...LOL]. Others have skill sets that others don't have - like leadership skills, tactician, recon, small arms experts, etc. [Those Marines I spoke of? Yeah...I'd follow them into battle anytime. When I say "these guys have their **** together," I'm not kidding]. Me? Idunno....I have good 'logistical' skills and I happen to be a 'good shot'.....though I'd never consider myself a "sniper" by any real definition of the term. I can pull a trigger, yeah....but I have nowhere near the field-craft skills necessary to be a 'true' sniper. Neither do the Marines in my group [none of them are Snipers] but these guys have some scary-freaking-skills that make me envious of their training. I've learned a lot but have much more to learn.

This group of friends/workmates have the stated goal of supporting and defending each other and our families in times of crisis, not necessarily the general pubic as a whole [although I'm fairly positive We would anyway, just because it's our nature to do so]. I know it's going to come up that "this doesn't marry well with your statement to be an OathKeeper"....which could be true from one perspective.....but my Oath to protect life and limb, the Constitutions [US and PA] and the People from a tyrannical government also has its limits. My DMR abilities and capabilities are 100% useless against hardened armor vehicles and drone strikes from orbit. I am one man in a small group of like-minded men and women who yes, have some good training/skills and a good measure of ammunition.......but that means almost nothing against a standing army of several hundred thousand + robot military/DHS/NSA/FBI/State&Local pawns 'just following orders' to obliterate any opposition to the politician's intended goal. "Surviving" such a take-over doesn't necessarily mean anyone should be throwing their life away on a futile, momentary maneuver "just to make a point." There has to be an achievable goal that can be accomplished with no [or as few as possible] losses.

HOWEVER, on the flip side of all that, we have "natural disaster" and "foreign insurgent/active shooter" mindsets in that We would absolutely help anyone and everyone we could because that's who We are.

[kyratshooter]

When did this thread stop being about emergency food preps and turn into instructions on how to vet a group of insurgents?

The beauty of the German mandate is that it removes the stigma of prepping being a subversive activity, only done by the nut job revolutionaries, and making it a function of each home/family unit as sustenance during emergencies.

[natertot]

When did this thread stop being about emergency food preps and turn into instructions on how to vet a group of insurgents?

Well, it is WSF........ Are you really that surprised?

I really don't care about "stigma" and such. My thought is the gov't recommends 3 days, but they can't even begin to help for two weeks. If we did a mandate and made it two weeks, you would have a lot less issues in emergencies.

[kyratshooter]

Quite true.

Someone said "ammo" and everything went sideways from there.

Seems it took our illustrious leader almost a week to find Louisiana on the map, much less get aid to them.

Problem with flooding is that you might have 10 days preps but if you have no scuba gear you can't get to them!

Word has it that the Czech Republic is following the German and Swiss lead and issuing an alert to gather resources.

I am beginning to wonder if they are anticipating something and trying to equip their populations for the event.

[crashdive123]

When did this thread stop being about emergency food preps and turn into instructions on how to vet a group of insurgents?



Wednesday. :whistling:

[natertot]

Lol, that's funny right there crash!

I know what you mean, KyRat. A whole stash of anything can be borderline useless in a flood, but evac before water reaches your door can be helpful. Not to mention, flooding isn't the only emergency that can occur. Even in a flood, you may not be underwater, but utilities can still be down and food/fuel sources closed because of the flooding in the area/region.

I am not surprised all these countries are "prepping". They saw what Hillary did to other countries as secretary of state and are probably thinking "crap..... if she gets elected...... " Now, I am thinking perhaps another case or two of canned goods may be in order!

[kyratshooter]

You better get a couple of cases of Dinty Moore and a case of beany weenies, those kids are growing like weeds!

I was having lunch with a couple of friends the other day and emergency food came up as we were discussing the German situation. One of the guys made comment that he needed to buy a couple of cases of MREs. The other guy asked it they were any good he had never eaten any.

Now this man has a wife that is a gourmet cook. I told him to never allow an MRE in the house, his wife would take one bite and swat him over the head with a rolled up newspaper and file for divorce based on spouse abuse.

He has a granddaughter about the same age as Abbie who stays with them a good deal so we decided a case of spaghetti-Os and mini-ravioli was a better idea.

That list the Swiss mandate is a really extensive food supply. I could live for a month on that stash.

[druid]

bleh......Dinty Moore......way too salty. Besides.....BACON WRAPPED SPAM is da BOM!!!

[crashdive123]

Bacon wrapped anything is da bom.

[LowKey]

If you read the sidebar on the Swiss list, they realize their location is an issue.
They are also more worried about a hacked electrical grid than civil unrest.
We should be more worried about that here as well.
It's already been proven multiple times that the US is not in any way cyber-secure.
Not even close.

I've been seeing ads lately from AllState insurance, all having to deal with emergency stock. Their blog about it is interesting, but they need more experienced writers. Something is better than nothing though. And funny, all of the comments have at least one person that tells the blogger, "you forgot the gun and ammo." Then a second person pooh-poohs the need for a gun. Then a third person points out you might want that gun when those who are unprepared come for your stuff...

[natertot]

A few good points in the recent posts on this page.

If it isn't palatable, what good is it going to do you. Stocking what you like (and others like) is needed. I am not a picky eater and find things which are otherwise mediocre are fabulous under certain circumstances. I do have a picky eater in my house and must remain aware of that.

Bacon solves everything!

Guns, well, everyone has there own thoughts on them. Most of us here are similar in thought on the subject. However, the first line of defense is silence. People who don't know or understand what you have won't have a reason to come. This is highly overlooked. A gun makes a good plan B though, in my opinion.

[kyratshooter]

One of the better aspects of mandated preps is that everyone has them, therefore there is limited compulsion to kick the neighbors' door down searching for food.

The main reason the Germans were invoking this set of regulations was to avoid panic buying when something does occur. Apparently they have had the German equivalent of Black Friday after some of the recent attacks.

It also makes it easier on the population when they put the entire nation into "lockdown" after a terror attack.

Can't do that over here you say????

Remember Boston after the Marathon attacks, they shut a major American city down without declaring ML.

[natertot]

As pretty much always, I agree with you KyRat. Whatever the thought behind the German's prepping, I doubt it will curb panic purchasing, at least if the same/similar thing occurred here. Look at the gun scares we have had! People stockpiling things because of the uncertainty of "I may never get it again". I think food will be much more! A guy with a family may have a month of food available, but if an issue occurs, he will most likely think "what if that isn't enough?!!!!". He will still go to the store and by as much as the money in his pockets will allow and make sure the tanks are topped off on the way home! Heck, we have panic buying here after every little thing. A light dusting of snow clears out the local grocer of bread, milk, and eggs every time. (I guess snow is the signal to make French toast????) I am sure most of us remember 9/11 and how gas stations were running out of gas because everyone was trying to have every bit of their tanks and cans filled ASAP. Panic purchasing has always occurred and I believe it will continue to always occur.

If my residence falls under Martial Law boundaries (highly unlikely given where I live) then I am not staying in my house. I will be bugging out to a place outside the hot zone. No way will I subject my family to that nonsense!

[OMark]

Overall I think that prepping has gotten increasingly popular over in Europe and Germany particular. For example EDC and prepping are buzz terms going around there, etc. But it would be interesting to hear from anyone living there.