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Ken
05-09-2008, 07:20 PM
Do you carry a firearm when hiking/backpacking?

canid
05-09-2008, 07:46 PM
you forgot 'yes i carry a rifle or handgun or shotgun'. what and whether i carry depends on where i am and what i'm doing.

Tahyo
05-09-2008, 07:54 PM
Depends on where.

Rick
05-09-2008, 07:56 PM
Where you carry it? You mean like where on you or where you are at or both?

Tahyo
05-09-2008, 08:03 PM
Where I am.

Stony
05-09-2008, 08:05 PM
there is NO reason for anyone to carry and hand gun when hicking.

crashdive123
05-09-2008, 08:05 PM
Just about always carry. What I carry depends on where and what I'm doing.

Rick
05-09-2008, 08:10 PM
Really Stony? I'll tell that to the next pack of dogs I run across or the guys that tried to steel my sons camping gear one night (they decided to leave in a bit of a hurry when the hand gun came out).

I'd much rather have it and not use it than need it and not have it.

Ken
05-09-2008, 08:12 PM
Sorry about the limited poll questions. Tried to make it simple. My next poll may ask about concealed handgun preferences. I'll allow multiple answers. Promise.

Here in Massachusetts, our Masshole legislators have even banned tasers and slingshots. We have the strictest gun laws in the world outside of NYC and DC. Given my line of work, I go through security checkpoints several times each day. So, I can't carry unless I'm "off duty" so to speak. My choice for a very concealable and effective (with the right ammo) handgun is the Beretta Tomcat (.32 cal.) or the Beretta 9000S (9 mm) You can't buy a new Tomcat here. Sales of new Tomcats are now banned in Mass.

You wouldn't believe the list of restricted weapons and ammo we have in this state. Our Attorney General designates the "Banned" list. Half of the guns I own can no longer be brought into the state or purchased "new" here. Hopefully, the US Supreme Court will fix that soon. You NEVER see a rifle or shotgun here unless you're in a gunshop or in the woods during deer season.

I suspect that more than half of those who carry handguns here are doing so illegally and for the wrong purposes. They're the primary reason the rest of us carry.

crashdive123
05-09-2008, 08:13 PM
Stony - why do you say there is no reason to carry while hiking?

Sourdough
05-09-2008, 08:17 PM
I don't go to the Outhouse without a firearm. Even working in the yard I have a firearm. And sometimes two firearms.

The mosquito's can run 3 to 5 pounds, with a 8 pounder you just take them straight to the taxidermist. You can get two good meals out of your average Alaskan mosquito. Not much meat on the legs, so I generally just breast them out, bread them, and fry them up in bacon fat. I use a 20 gauge w/ number 3 buck for Alaskan Mosquito's.......;)

Rick
05-09-2008, 08:17 PM
I've said elsewhere I like the .32. I've had one for quite a while.

I was thinking about this very subject today. When I was younger, a couple of hundred years ago, guys would walk out back and settle things with a thumping. Today, it's just as likely as not that someone will pull a gun and it doesn't matter where you are. Just a couple of weeks ago some moron robbed a bank here, jumped over the counter and shot a pregnant teller. She lost the twins she was carrying. So you're right, Ken. One of the main reasons I carry is because there are some really crazy people out there.

Tahyo
05-09-2008, 08:18 PM
Ken, no need to apologize. I've found that you can never cover all the contingencies in making a poll for some things.

I live in Illinois. No ccw here, although if I go to certain places I will carry. Where as hiking is concerned, again it depends on where I am. Most times I do carry a handgun.

Sourdough
05-09-2008, 08:24 PM
Stony, I'll show you some reasons. Brown ones, Black ones, If you go north White ones, fat ones, skinny ones.

And then there is the "GROW" Operations.

Ken
05-09-2008, 08:30 PM
Just a couple of weeks ago some moron robbed a bank here, jumped over the counter and shot a pregnant teller. She lost the twins she was carrying.

I read about that. National news. Too bad someone else in the bank wasn't carrying, too. Those twins would have been beautiful.

Ever read the stuff by "The Kid From Brooklyn?" He's got his own website. Recommends handing a baseball bat to everyone boarding a plane. Figures 300 baseball bats will beat a few boxcutters every time. I agree.

crashdive123
05-09-2008, 08:34 PM
One of the reasons I prefer not to fly....I feel kind of nekked.

Alpine_Sapper
05-09-2008, 08:36 PM
there is NO reason for anyone to carry and hand gun when hicking.

everyone should have a hand gun when hicking. Maybe not when hike-ing, but when I'm hunting for hicks I definitely want protection. They can spit and bite like nothing you've ever seen.

Rick
05-09-2008, 08:37 PM
Looks like Stony did a drive by posting.

Tahyo
05-09-2008, 08:38 PM
One of the reasons I prefer not to fly....I feel kind of nekked.

I'm not crazy about it either anymore. Last time I flew I wanted to beat the crap out the two TSA persons I had to deal with. Talk about low IQ and complete idiots, but I had to keep my mouth shut and take the crap. Sure would like to run into them out in public somewhere.

Tahyo
05-09-2008, 08:40 PM
Looks like Stony did a drive by posting.

I have noticed that about him.

Ken
05-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Damn, I'd love to get together for a beer with some of you folks.

crashdive123
05-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Some people just post things to get a reaction, while others are...well...stupid. You decide.

crashdive123
05-09-2008, 08:43 PM
Damn, I'd love to get together for a beer with some of you folks.

But we couldn't do it in Mass. I'll be carrying.

Rick
05-09-2008, 08:44 PM
It used to be okay. Now it's just a pain in the (pick your favorite part). I traveled a lot for my job and getting through the airport was always such a hassle. It's even worse now. Seating just plain sucks. I stood in the galley reading the paper on one flight because I got stuck seated next to a 400 pound woman. If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'. I wasn't ticked at her so much as the seats are so danged small she was half way in mine. And just when you start working on your laptop the dufus in front of you reclines the seat back.

Ken
05-09-2008, 08:47 PM
But we couldn't do it in Mass. I'll be carrying.

Eighteen Months Minimum Mandatory Sentence. Guess what? It's two years mandatory time ON AND AFTER (consecutive sentence) if the gun is loaded! The law sucks, but it should at least be the reverse. You should get 2 years for carrying an UNLOADED gun.

beerrunner13
05-09-2008, 08:50 PM
I have noticed that about him.

It is kind of his MO. And I carry eveywhere I go also

Tahyo
05-09-2008, 08:50 PM
It used to be okay. Now it's just a pain in the (pick your favorite part). I traveled a lot for my job and getting through the airport was always such a hassle. It's even worse now. Seating just plain sucks. I stood in the galley reading the paper on one flight because I got stuck seated next to a 400 pound woman. If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'. I wasn't ticked at her so much as the seats are so danged small she was half way in mine. And just when you start working on your laptop the dufus in front of you reclines the seat back.

My wife flew to Oregon this week with her two older sisters and mother. The mother and one of the sisters has never flown before. When I asked my wife the other day how "Val" was on the plane, she couldn't say much because others were around, but did managed to say, "You can not even begin to imagine". I then asked her how close she was to getting tossed off the plane. She said she was surprised they didn't. There is that chance she will this coming Sunday cause that's when they come back.
My wife now thinks it was not such a good idea to go spend 8 or 9 days with her 2 sisters and 80 year old mother.

crashdive123
05-09-2008, 08:50 PM
Carry unloaded? "I swear officer, I was going to just throw it at him." That's why I like the Castle Doctrin in Florida.

Last Mohican
05-09-2008, 08:51 PM
I am looking to get a pistol for general usage including hiking.

All those tree huggers ( no offense to anyone here ) get a little nervous when they see a barrel sticking out of your pack.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned it is everyones' God given right to carry.

Now on the other hand, if someone that is carrying does something stupid with their gun, then it is their God given right to be turned into swiss cheese by everyone else that is carrying.

A self solving problem.

Crime control, not gun control.

Rick
05-09-2008, 08:55 PM
Indiana is pretty lenient. We can carry concealed or open everywhere except schools, school buses, at the restricted area of an airport and the state fair (go figure). Corps of Engineers won't let you carry on their property but BLM and state parks are okay.

Rick
05-09-2008, 08:58 PM
Oh, and we honor everyone's conceal permit....for those states that allow it.

Tahyo
05-09-2008, 08:59 PM
Illinois is so squirrelly. No ccw and you have to have an FOID card. Doubtful we'll ever see ccw passed here in my lifetime. Lately a few anti-gun things have been shot down but they keep trying to pass more and more.

crashdive123
05-09-2008, 09:01 PM
I do like Vermont's law. It's a RIGHT guaranteed in the Constitution. If you're a citizen you can carry - period. Only problem is with reciprocity. Since many states require a CCP they do not recognize Vermont's citizens carrying in their state - at least Florida doesn't.

Ken
05-09-2008, 09:04 PM
In addition to Mass I have a R.I. and a N.H. license as well. New England's so small you'd be illegal in an hour in any direction. Here's a good link on state to state reciprocity.

http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#recip

Ole WV Coot
05-09-2008, 09:30 PM
I most always carry and forget flying now. I feel undressed without my 45, knives and I wonder if my walking stick would pass muster even with no metal. I always have something have carried well over 40yrs and will continue. I really like people that depend on the mercy of the zonked out creep who an old guy like me could take out. Let them fork over their $$ and still get sliced anyway, I will just step around and save ammo and knife cleaning. Think I said before ignorance is no excuse for stupidity.

Mountaintrekker
05-09-2008, 09:36 PM
We carry when we hike or camp or fish... I guess we just carry. Just bought my sweets a new Glock 20 10mm she has been wanting for Alaska, should be here next week. I'm not sure how she is going to conceal it though (not a big gal by any means). I'll have to buy her a poncho to put on when she wants to CCW it! Maybe open carry on this one. I'm looking into getting a nice Galco shoulder rig for mine. Ahhhh! I love being able to exercise my rights. :)

Sourdough
05-10-2008, 12:23 AM
Mountain, If your not up on getting the handguns through Canada, let me know. You can ship them to yourself here.

klkak
05-10-2008, 12:29 AM
In Alaska you don't need a permit to ccw. We don't have a law against open carry. When I'm around others I ccw but when I'm in the bush I open carry. I keep a vest or light jacket in the truck just in case.

AKS
05-10-2008, 01:05 AM
Here in Okinawa only the police and the criminals carry. All I can legally carry off base is a knife with a blade 2" or less. Back home I carry every time I go out in the woods. What I carry usually depends on where I am going and how much weight I feel like packing around. I normally carry a pistol but a 12ga with slugs usually makes me feel some what more comfortable in county where the grizzlies are overpopulated.

Mountaintrekker
05-10-2008, 01:14 AM
Hopeak,
I had to come back on this post and edit... You are informing me that I may ship my guns up there to myself, right? It's late, I thought for a minute there you were offering your address for me to ship to. :) I'm currently looking into using a shipping company that specializes in Alaska and just ship up the whole lot of them to Kenai. It's too bad I can't do that with the ammo. I need to bring it physically across and pay a 5% tax on anything over 200rnds per person max 5000rnds.
You know you just may get a visit from me and the Mrs. on our way through. Well honk the horn while we try and turn our Airstream around in the thriving megalopolis that is Hope.

klkak
05-10-2008, 01:21 AM
Mountain, when do you think you will be here?

Mountaintrekker
05-10-2008, 02:07 AM
It's a gonna be a fun one! We are hoping to be in AK by the first week of Sept. Then a mad dash to look around and get an idea of where we want to live while fishing at every possible moment:D. We will probably look at renting a place through the winter and get a jump on it first sign of spring. During the winter we will probably look for some work to supplement our nest egg and maybe get some small game hunting in.

Alpine_Sapper
05-10-2008, 06:34 AM
Here in Okinawa only the police and the criminals carry. All I can legally carry off base is a knife with a blade 2" or less. Back home I carry every time I go out in the woods. What I carry usually depends on where I am going and how much weight I feel like packing around. I normally carry a pistol but a 12ga with slugs usually makes me feel some what more comfortable in county where the grizzlies are overpopulated.

SSSSSSSHHHHHH!!! Don't say that. The spray police will come arrest you for thinking you can shoot a bear instead of macing it!!!

Sourdough
05-10-2008, 09:11 AM
Hopeak,
I had to come back on this post and edit... You are informing me that I may ship my guns up there to myself, right? It's late, I thought for a minute there you were offering your address for me to ship to. :) I'm currently looking into using a shipping company that specializes in Alaska and just ship up the whole lot of them to Kenai. It's too bad I can't do that with the ammo. I need to bring it physically across and pay a 5% tax on anything over 200rnds per person max 5000rnds.
You know you just may get a visit from me and the Mrs. on our way through. Well honk the horn while we try and turn our Airstream around in the thriving megalopolis that is Hope.

Sounds like you have a firm grip on the transfer problem. A ffl dealer there will charge $75.00 per firearm to ship them, to a ffl dealer here who will charge $75.00 per firearm to receive them. But, You can ship them to you.

AKS
05-10-2008, 12:46 PM
SSSSSSSHHHHHH!!! Don't say that. The spray police will come arrest you for thinking you can shoot a bear instead of macing it!!!

Yea, I don't know about the whole bear spray thing. It is supposed to work real well but I don't know anybody that has actually tried to use it on a bear. I had a buddy who accidentally used it on himself...and me once.:mad: He had a can of bear spray on his belt during a caribou hunt we were on. He felt safe carrying it. Freed up his hands while we were packing out meat he said. Some how he discharged it inside his coat on the drive home. If I hadn't been blinded and choking, I would have been so mad. So if nothing else, I can tell you that works very well on humans.:o Can't imagine a bear sticking around after actually getting a face full of the stuff but I still prefer my 12ga.;)

h8mtv
05-10-2008, 07:30 PM
The Judge by Taurus is my backpacking/general woods carry firearm of choice. Before that I carried a SW 625 in 45acp. The Taurus is great because you can shoot 45lc or 2.5" 410ga shells so there is alot of versatility for small game or personal protection if the need for either arises.

Alpine_Sapper
05-10-2008, 09:25 PM
It is supposed to work real well but I don't know anybody that has actually tried to use it on a bear.

I thought you were close acquaintance's with klkak?

http://wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1601&highlight=throw+softball+bear+spray&page=4

#66

Assassin Pilot
05-10-2008, 09:52 PM
I don't have a handgun or rifle / shotgun, mainly cause I'm still in school and there isn't a need for it now, so I shall exempt myself from this poll. In a couple of years though I will go get some very good gun training and maybe I will carry one around then.

DOGMAN
05-10-2008, 10:20 PM
It really depends what I'm doing and were I am doing it. I am not packing all the time, and lots of times when hiking well traveled trails I just carry bear spray. But, the further I go from a road and the more off the beaten path I am then I'll carry my .44 mag revolver and bear spray. My plan is to use bear spray first, and if that doesn't work then the 44. On float trips I usually keep my pistol in a small drybag clipped near me in the canoe or raft.

I really don't want to have to shoot a Grizzly. In fact I'd rather die from the claws of a griz than from being hit by a drunk driver (much more likely) but I'd prefer not to die- so I am prepared to do whatever it takes.

When guiding hunters I normally carry my .375 H&H. Sometimes I carry around a .22 pistol when just kicking around on my property, it just depends on my mood. I only carry a shotgun when bird hunting. Although, I think a 12ga pump is a great all around survival gun for general useage- I just don't carry them around.

As far as when in town, I just carry nunchucks and brass knuckles along with razor blades on the toes of my boots. I am a street fightin' man and guns just don't meet my needs.

DOGMAN
05-10-2008, 10:23 PM
I don't have a handgun or rifle / shotgun, mainly cause I'm still in school and there isn't a need for it now, so I shall exempt myself from this poll. In a couple of years though I will go get some very good gun training and maybe I will carry one around then.

Jeez, i don't know Columbine, Jonesboro, Virginia Tech, etc...I think if I was a school kid I'd be wanting to carry a gun all the time.

If everyone was packin' there'd probably alot less gun violence. Colt called them the peacekeeper for a reason.

Alpine_Sapper
05-10-2008, 11:01 PM
As far as when in town, I just carry nunchucks and brass knuckles along with razor blades on the toes of my boots. I am a street fightin' man and guns just don't meet my needs.

Sounds like most of the skinheadz I've met in my life. Personally I'd rather carry a gun legally than carry nunchucks (which I'm very proficient at) or knuck's, neithe rof which are legal anywhere inside the US. If I do have to carry unloaded, as was posted earlier in the thread, just borrow a line from Eminem...

"And I ain't even gotta dump a round when I pull the piece out...f**k shootin', I'm just tryna knock his teeth out..."

Pistol whip works the same as brass knuckles in most cases.

DOGMAN
05-10-2008, 11:31 PM
Sounds like most of the skinheadz I've met in my life. Personally I'd rather carry a gun legally than carry nunchucks (which I'm very proficient at) or knuck's, neithe rof which are legal anywhere inside the US. If I do have to carry unloaded, as was posted earlier in the thread, just borrow a line from Eminem...

"And I ain't even gotta dump a round when I pull the piece out...f**k shootin', I'm just tryna knock his teeth out..."

Pistol whip works the same as brass knuckles in most cases.

Sorry, I have a slightly goofy sense of humor. I really don't carry nunchucks, or brass knuckles, or have razors- I was trying to be funny.:) My best defense is to not offend...I don't get in fights or altercations. I don't pack any weapons when I go to town. Maybe, I should. I have a pistol in the truck- but i don't carry it around.

AKS
05-11-2008, 05:08 AM
I thought you were close acquaintance's with klkak?

http://wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1601&highlight=throw+softball+bear+spray&page=4

#66

Thanks for the link Alpine. klkak is a good friend of mine but I have been out of the state for a few years. We keep in contact but don't get to hear much about the day to day stuff. With his job, I guess you could call bears day to day stuff? Thanks for the correction. Looks like I do know somebody that uses bear spray. He probably just got a little excited right before he couldn't pull off that softball shot at 10 yards.:D I guess this is probably stuff for a different thread.
Big fuzzies make for special consideration when selecting what to carry when hiking or just out n about in Alaska. Some people like large caliber hand guns, some like bear spray, I like my shotgun. They each have their strengths and their weaknesses. I am not opposed to bear spray. Some day I will probably carry it because I really don't want to have to kill a bear just because I accidentally got to close to its cubs or its food or it thought I was food. I just think you should carry what you are the best/most comfortable with. Personally I still feel best/most comfortable with my 12ga.;)

h8mtv
05-11-2008, 09:01 AM
Sorry, I have a slightly goofy sense of humor. I really don't carry nunchucks, or brass knuckles, or have razors- I was trying to be funny.:) My best defense is to not offend...I don't get in fights or altercations. I don't pack any weapons when I go to town. Maybe, I should. I have a pistol in the truck- but i don't carry it around.

I almost spit out my coffee when I read that. Cracked me up bro.

I carry a NAA mini revolver in 22mag daily. I keep it in my Maxpedition pack generally but I did just order a neat little holster from CTD for about $6. Looks pretty good and should be really easy to wear.

Ken
05-11-2008, 09:26 AM
I have a pistol in the truck- but i don't carry it around.

Can't do that in Massachusetts either. Leave a weapon unattended in a vehicle, loaded in the trunk, or unattended and unlocked AT HOME (if you're not in the same room as your unlocked gun) in Mass and you in a lot of trouble. At home it better have a trigger lock or be in a gun safe or within arms reach or it's "unattended". I've never seen a shotgun rack in a pickup here. Ever.

Alpine_Sapper
05-11-2008, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the link Alpine. klkak is a good friend of mine but I have been out of the state for a few years. We keep in contact but don't get to hear much about the day to day stuff. With his job, I guess you could call bears day to day stuff? Thanks for the correction. Looks like I do know somebody that uses bear spray. He probably just got a little excited right before he couldn't pull off that softball shot at 10 yards.:D I guess this is probably stuff for a different thread.
Big fuzzies make for special consideration when selecting what to carry when hiking or just out n about in Alaska. Some people like large caliber hand guns, some like bear spray, I like my shotgun. They each have their strengths and their weaknesses. I am not opposed to bear spray. Some day I will probably carry it because I really don't want to have to kill a bear just because I accidentally got to close to its cubs or its food or it thought I was food. I just think you should carry what you are the best/most comfortable with. Personally I still feel best/most comfortable with my 12ga.;)

Amen bro. That's been my point regarding the spray all along.

Assassin Pilot
05-11-2008, 10:25 AM
Jeez, i don't know Columbine, Jonesboro, Virginia Tech, etc...I think if I was a school kid I'd be wanting to carry a gun all the time.

If everyone was packin' there'd probably alot less gun violence. Colt called them the peacekeeper for a reason.

At a lot of schools it is illegal to carry a gun around. Colleges are sometimes different, but still, you can't say "this happened before, it is going to happen again easily" because it simply isn't. Carrying a gun for that is like buying Alien Insurance simply because some people claim to be abducted. Besides, the best way to win a fight is to avoid it. I'm a fast runner.

Ken
05-11-2008, 10:50 AM
Besides, the best way to win a fight is to avoid it. I'm a fast runner.

My mother is 77 years old. I often accompany her to restaurants, on errands, etc. She can't run very fast. I can't imagine leaving her behind as I run away. And I can't run as fast as I could when I was young, either (not that I ever remember "running away"). But my shooting accuracy? It's been exceptionally good and very consistent over the years. I figure it's a lot better than that of most "gangbangers" who've never even seen a pistol range and who waive their "heaters" in the air for effect before randomly blasting away without a specific target in mind. That's just one reason I carry.

Have I ever drawn my weapon for personal defense? Yes, 3 times, all in Boston, and with every intention of using it. Never had to. Two knives and one broken bottle hit the ground as soon as I cocked my gun, which already had a round in the chamber.

Pict
05-11-2008, 11:35 AM
My one and only defensive gun use was while solo hiking in PA.

I went down a blue blazed trail to get water. At the bottom the trail crossed a creek. I leaned my pack against a tree and went out to a flat rock with my canteen. As I squatted down to fill the canteen movement caught my eye and I looked back up the trail to see two 20-something guys literally sneaking down the trail towards me.

I took the hammer thong off my Ruger Single Six as it didn't look good. They were up above me on my left side and the gun was riding low in a western style holster, tied down, on my right. As I looked at them the leader looked right at me and we made eye contact. He quick said something to his bud and they rushed the rest of the way down the trail and came out on the bank opposite me.

I stood up quick to face them. The one actually had his hand on a big Rambo knife and was starting to draw. I still had the canteen in both hands and I was a split second from dropping it and drilling them both when they RADAR LOCKED on the gun and FROZE.

An awkward silence ensued. The leader guy gave this little humorless laugh, "Huh, huh, we were just trying to scare you...huh...huh..."

I said something like "Well, it worked..."

I backed off to my pack saddled up and left them there sitting on a log talking in low tones. The whole scene was straight out of Deliverance.

BTW at the time I was shooting 500 rounds a week from that revolver. I could have hit them with four rounds before the canteen bounced. Mac

ETA - I carry either a Glock 19 or a 2.5 inch S&W 19 now, sometimes a 1911A1.

Rick
05-11-2008, 12:43 PM
I read on another forum about a guy that stepped into an elevator and as the door closed a second guy stepped on. Guy one said he wasn't too comfortable the way the second guy stepped on. When the second guy turned around he was holding a knife and starring at the first guy's gun. He looked at the gun then up at the guy and asked, "Wanna buy a knife?"

I thought that was pretty funny.

Ridge Wolf
05-11-2008, 01:22 PM
At present I do not have a gun... However, when in the MP's I carried the standard .38 revolver and an M-16. Full military training on others... I plan to get a permit to C&C and will get a handgun big enough to drop a bear if need be... although that will probably be heavy on the hip. I consider the weight worth it 1. If all else fails with wild animal proximity.. and 2. at least for psychological effect with the two legged animals out there. 3. There are no cops around when you need them... especially in the wilderness.

Alpine_Sapper
05-11-2008, 03:06 PM
At a lot of schools it is illegal to carry a gun around. Colleges are sometimes different, but still, you can't say "this happened before, it is going to happen again easily" because it simply isn't. Carrying a gun for that is like buying Alien Insurance simply because some people claim to be abducted.

Then what the **** are you doing HERE? I mean, carrying a survival kit because something MIGHT happen is like carrying a gun at college because some nutcase MIGHT pull one out and start blasting. And have you looked at the statistics on school shootings/explosions? It can, and will, happen again easily.

I'm not advocating carrying a gun at school. I have kids, and I want them to go to school in a safe environment. All that line about "If everyone was packin' there'd probably alot less gun violence. Colt called them the peacekeeper for a reason.", I laughed so hard when I read that the first time. See, it requires a certain level of maturity that most school kids just don't have to be able to carry a gun and use it RESPONSIBLY. You could argue that college is different, but the last time I checked, beer bongs and panty raids weren't exactly the marks of maturity. I know people of ALL ages I'd be real real scared if they owned a gun. Some because they have no self control and a temper. Others because they'd probably shoot you by accident trying to draw.



Besides, the best way to win a fight is to avoid it. I'm a fast runner.


A: If you avoided it, you didn't win it. You were never in it. Big difference.

B: You can't outrun a bullet. Hell, if I'm on the street, I bet you can;t outrun that brick, bottle, rock, board, etc. I got pretty good aim and a pretty good arm. So run. *shrug* Don't worry about that wet stuff running down the back of your neck, or that sharp pain in the top of your head. Worry about the footsteps you hear getting closer.

You may think I'm trying to be a badass or whatever, but, I pulled myself up from the streets. I was one of those guys that half of you carry because of. I'm not proud of it, but I'm damned sure not ashamed of it either.

Oh, And even back then, I could, and can run sub 6's on a mile. So even if I can't find something to throw, I doubt you gonna outrun me.

Riverrat
05-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Where I am from it is illigal to carry a handgun at all, and hard to carry a rifle. The rifle has to be under 22 cal., and you can not carry a shotgun with anything except birdshot, unless you are hunting deer then you can carry a slug. I have been on trails where i have come face to face with a mom bear and her cubs, (black bear), and did not need a gun, but some of the places I hike I would love to have one, not for the wild life, but the other hikers.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-12-2008, 10:46 PM
I carry a bat and a big knife.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-12-2008, 10:49 PM
[QUOTE=Alpine_Sapper;46284]

You may think I'm trying to be a badass or whatever, but, I pulled myself up from the streets. I was one of those guys that half of you carry because of. I'm not proud of it, but I'm damned sure not ashamed of it either.
QUOTE]

Maybe you should be.

beerrunner13
05-13-2008, 12:58 AM
[QUOTE=Alpine_Sapper;46284]

You may think I'm trying to be a badass or whatever, but, I pulled myself up from the streets. I was one of those guys that half of you carry because of. I'm not proud of it, but I'm damned sure not ashamed of it either.
QUOTE]

Maybe you should be.

dUDE WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, YOU ALWAYS SHOW UP AND START INSULTING PEOPLE OR AR YOU HAVEING A BAD DAY? yOU MUST LOOK REAL CUTE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WITH YOUR BIG KNIFE AND A BAT, HOPE YOU DON'T TRY AND USE THEM ON A REAL PERSON, HINT DO NOT BRING A BAT OR A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT

Sourdough
05-13-2008, 01:05 AM
Not all that smart to be the advertiser that sponsored the the forum then come in and piss people off. "Here's your sign"........:)

DOGMAN
05-13-2008, 01:15 AM
Hey Beerrunner I just heard your theme song on the radio today...who sings it.

B double E double RUN Beerrun
B double E double RUN beerun.

It kind of sounded like Garth Brooks. I think I'd heard it before but it never registered. But, now I had something to associate with it.
Funnny song

DOGMAN
05-13-2008, 01:19 AM
The Beer Runner theme song...Garth Brooks

Twenty-five minutes past quitting time
Seven of us crammed into that truck of mine
Paying no attention to them highway signs
Going 90 mile an hour toward that county line
Quick sack, 12 pack, back again
It's a B-double E-double are you in?

My buddy and their babies letting down their hair
As long as were together it don't matter where
Ain't got a lot of money but we just don't care
Knowing that the fun is in the getting there
Aztec, long necks, paychecks spent
It's a B-double E-double are you in?

Oh I cant stop thinking
What the hell they were drinking
When they made this county dry
I got a week long thirst and what makes it worse
lord it's my turn to drive

Laughing and a bragging and a' carrying on
We loaded up the wagon and we headed home
I guess half a dozen cases doesn't last that long
Come tomorrow morning it'll be all gone
It's turn around, leave town, sounds again
Like a B-double E-double are you in?

Like a B-double E-double are you in?

nell67
05-13-2008, 02:48 AM
George Jones sang it as well.

beerrunner13
05-13-2008, 08:54 AM
They did it as a duet, there was a little contoversy about it when it first came out Alegedly George got mad about the line at the end when he says get in the truck and Garth says ok but I'm driveing.

Funny thing a buddy of mine is a knife maker and just sent me a knife yesterday with beerrunner etched into the blade on one side and a confedarate flag on the other. He made me a couple but my wife calls that one the beerrunner knife. And it is sweet Osage orange handle done with Danish oil and a heavy high carbo blade, he is also a forum member so Thanks Bro.

Ole WV Coot
05-13-2008, 09:52 AM
Gosh, I never heard of such "mean" men before and all on one forum. Last time I heard a man tell how bad he was he was carried out in pieces. I sure am glad I grew up in Eastern KY and live in WV now. Us ole Rednecks never push anybody. Short story: I was in a bar in D.C. and an old drunk next to me pulled an old 32 out and laid it on the bar. This big, brave guy was gonna show off so he grabbed the ole man's 32 and pushed him off the bar stool and called him a few choice names. When he turned to throw the 32 toward the trash can the ole man let him have 3 in the back with a new 45. I was 20 at the time and learned to keep my mouth shut, drink my beer, don't brag and don't think you are the baddest man in the bar cause you ain't.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 10:14 AM
[QUOTE=LeaveThisLifeGuy;46479]

dUDE WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, YOU ALWAYS SHOW UP AND START INSULTING PEOPLE OR AR YOU HAVEING A BAD DAY? yOU MUST LOOK REAL CUTE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WITH YOUR BIG KNIFE AND A BAT, HOPE YOU DON'T TRY AND USE THEM ON A REAL PERSON, HINT DO NOT BRING A BAT OR A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT

1. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out an opinion. Specifically that living a life that makes others want to carry might be something to be ashamed of; and
2. The question was "Do you carry a firearm when hiking/backpacking?" so I'm not really too concerned about my cuteness factor re the knife and bat as I'm runnin through the woods.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 10:16 AM
Not all that smart to be the advertiser that sponsored the the forum then come in and piss people off. "Here's your sign"........:)

I shoot straight, business or not.

DOGMAN
05-13-2008, 11:25 AM
Gosh, I never heard of such "mean" men before and all on one forum. Last time I heard a man tell how bad he was he was carried out in pieces. I sure am glad I grew up in Eastern KY and live in WV now. Us ole Rednecks never push anybody. Short story: I was in a bar in D.C. and an old drunk next to me pulled an old 32 out and laid it on the bar. This big, brave guy was gonna show off so he grabbed the ole man's 32 and pushed him off the bar stool and called him a few choice names. When he turned to throw the 32 toward the trash can the ole man let him have 3 in the back with a new 45. I was 20 at the time and learned to keep my mouth shut, drink my beer, don't brag and don't think you are the baddest man in the bar cause you ain't.


Today's the day Coot...Hillary, or Obama. LOL....I know, I know no politics

Alpine_Sapper
05-13-2008, 11:50 AM
[QUOTE=Alpine_Sapper;46284]

You may think I'm trying to be a badass or whatever, but, I pulled myself up from the streets. I was one of those guys that half of you carry because of. I'm not proud of it, but I'm damned sure not ashamed of it either.
QUOTE]

Maybe you should be.

Not in my eyes. I did what I had to do to survive. Anyone who doesn't like it can get ****** as far as I am concerned.

trax
05-13-2008, 12:22 PM
Depends on the situation, if I'm going way in-country up north I'll take a rifle along. No handguns (Canada sux that way) If I'm just day tripping or camping out in one of the provincial parks, I don't usually bother.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 03:12 PM
[QUOTE=LeaveThisLifeGuy;46479]

Not in my eyes. I did what I had to do to survive. Anyone who doesn't like it can get ****** as far as I am concerned.

There's that social accountability that I just love about you Alpine. So community oriented :confused:

trax
05-13-2008, 03:15 PM
You live your life Alpine, I'm not about to get into judging you. Social accountability is highly over-rated.

beerrunner13
05-13-2008, 04:18 PM
[QUOTE=Alpine_Sapper;46544]

There's that social accountability that I just love about you Alpine. So community oriented :confused:

Your just winnig hearts and minds all over the place Sport, social accountability intresting idea comeing from a law student, might want to pull you head out of your A%% there bud,someone pulls themself up from the street and you are the judge, go back to your classroom I am sure you are learning a lot about the real world there. And you sure are doing a lot for your web site with the attitude. :eek:

Ole WV Coot
05-13-2008, 04:21 PM
Montana ,didn't have those on my who to vote for list, so I didn't. Sure could have used those big bad men back in the '60s, maybe would have saved a few of us country boys by volunteering to walk point. I always liked the man that didn't say much or stick his neck out behind me. I guess things have changed and I can't adjust.

Alpine_Sapper
05-13-2008, 04:24 PM
[QUOTE=Alpine_Sapper;46544]

There's that social accountability that I just love about you Alpine. So community oriented :confused:

@Trax: Thanks.

@LeaveThisLifeGuy: I'm sorry your confused. I have attoned for my past in one way or another, and I don't have to justify my actions or my feelings to some judgemental marketing rep for a glorified travel agency.

@OldWVCoot: I'm not real sure how to take your post. I half feel insulted, but since I apparently lack social accountability I don't really care. Ultimately though, your post illustrated my point. Don't turn your back on the guy who's confronting you because you don't know what his state of mind is, what he can do, or what he's got. And thinking you'll be alright because you can outrun somebody as your only line of defense is just stupid. As for being the baddest dude in the bar, I never said I was. Never claimed to be, and don't wanna be. I was simply talking about my experience in the past to illustrate a point that may keep one of the younger kids out of the hospital or morgue. Might have come off a little harsh. Fuggit. Guess that goes back to my lack of socialization or whatever.

nell67
05-13-2008, 04:50 PM
Alpine, we all have different backgrounds,some of us have/has had, a hard life whether it be now or in the past,others,well its evident that they have never seen that side of life,and can not understand what it's like. No one has to explain,nor apologize for where they come from. Sounds like you have turned things around in your life,and I applaud you for that.

DOGMAN
05-13-2008, 04:57 PM
I say if your going to judge someone don't judge them for what they've done....judge them by what they are doing.

Or, just keep to yourself and don't judge anyone....keep your mouth shut and your head down!

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 05:08 PM
[QUOTE=LeaveThisLifeGuy;46581]

@Trax: Thanks.

@LeaveThisLifeGuy: I'm sorry your confused. I have attoned for my past in one way or another, and I don't have to justify my actions or my feelings to some judgemental marketing rep for a glorified travel agency.

@OldWVCoot: I'm not real sure how to take your post. I half feel insulted, but since I apparently lack social accountability I don't really care. Ultimately though, your post illustrated my point. Don't turn your back on the guy who's confronting you because you don't know what his state of mind is, what he can do, or what he's got. And thinking you'll be alright because you can outrun somebody as your only line of defense is just stupid. As for being the baddest dude in the bar, I never said I was. Never claimed to be, and don't wanna be. I was simply talking about my experience in the past to illustrate a point that may keep one of the younger kids out of the hospital or morgue. Might have come off a little harsh. Fuggit. Guess that goes back to my lack of socialization or whatever.

Fair enough, I very well may be confused. I read "I'm the reason half of you carry, and I'm not ashamed of that." I probably did read too much into that, and did come off as judgmental. I'm not a big fan of people who make this world a nasty place to be. You're probably not one of those people. I stand corrected. However, for the record, I'm not a marketing rep, nor is it a travel agency. It's just me, doin what I like to do and gettin others to try it.

That said, I am interested in how you feel you've attoned yourself of your bad doings? Not because I'm judgmental, but because I've done a lot of tasteless things in my time, and I feel no matter how many beneficial acts I do, I can never make up for the wrongs. Just curious.

Alpine_Sapper
05-13-2008, 05:40 PM
Fair enough, I very well may be confused. I read "I'm the reason half of you carry, and I'm not ashamed of that." I probably did read too much into that, and did come off as judgmental. I'm not a big fan of people who make this world a nasty place to be. You're probably not one of those people. I stand corrected. However, for the record, I'm not a marketing rep, nor is it a travel agency. It's just me, doin what I like to do and gettin others to try it.


I said you were confused because that's the emoticon you chose.

If you go back and reread the original post, what I said was "I was one of those guys that half of you carry because of". Maybe I should have changed the font on the WAS

I don't really care what you call your business or your position. I'd like to know the details of the advertising deal you cut with Chris, but that's just idle curiosity because it's the ONLY ad I see. Must have been lucrative.



That said, I am interested in how you feel you've attoned yourself of your bad doings? Not because I'm judgmental, but because I've done a lot of tasteless things in my time, and I feel no matter how many beneficial acts I do, I can never make up for the wrongs. Just curious.

I wouldn't describe what I did as tasteless. Tasteless is running out on a bar tab without paying. Your acts are yours to find atonement for. While I've alluded to some of the things that I've done, I've not gone into any specifics, and I don't see why I should start with how I've made my amends. suffice to say that I don't lose any sleep at night over where I've been. *MY* conscience is clear. If yours isn't you need to find your own penance, and stop swimming in guilt.

DOGMAN
05-13-2008, 05:50 PM
I once cut a horrible, silent but deadly fart in a packed church while in line for communion, and this little boy loudly blamed it on his grandma who was right behind me! She turned bright red and shook her head- but never said she didn't do it....so basically I let an old lady take a fall for my nastiness. Attonement wheh...I need it.

I mean it really, really stunk

Alpine_Sapper
05-13-2008, 05:50 PM
Alpine, we all have different backgrounds,some of us have/has had, a hard life whether it be now or in the past,others,well its evident that they have never seen that side of life,and can not understand what it's like. No one has to explain,nor apologize for where they come from. Sounds like you have turned things around in your life,and I applaud you for that.

Thanks Nell.

grundle
05-13-2008, 06:04 PM
I have finished all the requirements for C&C but I just need to go hand in the paperwork. I need to get off my duff, because I would really love to take advantage of that right.

I do keep my .45 loaded and close-by at night. There have been a few times where I thought someone was trying to break in and it sure did give me an extra level of comfort.

Ken
05-13-2008, 07:01 PM
LeaveThisLifeGuy,

I don't know what type of law you plan on practicing, but I'll tell you from about 25 years of experience that:

1. My criminal clients (75% of my practice) are very often (not always) good and decent people who are either truly innocent or who have just made a stupid mistake. I represent criminal defendants primarily because the criminal defense bar is the only thing which prevents society from becoming a police state. Without us, the government would go wild and the people would soon be forced to defend themselves against an out-of-control government and police state. How do you like the government scanning your e-mail? Do you think that this site is ever monitored? Why do you REALLY believe cell phones have GPS? Why can't law-abiding citizens carry handguns in many states and cities? My job is to make sure that my client does not go to prison unless the government meets its burden and PROVES his/her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. We're not Venezuela, Zimbabwe, or China. Not yet, anyway. And believe me, the "System" does not favor the guilty. The government has far more resources to prosecute charges than an individual has to defend against them.

2. My criminal clients are generally more honest with me than are other clients.

3. Sometimes people have no viable options in life.

4. A high percentage of people in jail really aren't guilty of the crime(s) they were convicted of. For this, you can thank lousy defense lawyers, shoddy and/or politically motivated investigations and prosecutions (think Duke University), witnesses who lie under oath, the percentage of cops - about 30% from my experience - who lie through their teeth under oath, incompetent judges, etc.

5. Think about #4 if you want to crucify a "convicted sex offender" or a "convicted felon" for the rest of his/her life. I'm sure that at least 100 innocent people were convicted TODAY in courts in the United States.

6. Real decent people may have real ****ty backgrounds. Some people can change, others can't. I have good friends - people who would be there for me no matter what - from almost every walk of life.

7. I've been around long enough to learn that I shouldn't judge anyone. I haven't walked in their shoes, lived their life, or come from their background.

8. Some people ARE bad to the core. Some are just plain dangerous to others. Some are convicted criminals, others are lawyers, and yet others are cops. Many of these people, and there are a lot of them walking around, should, at the very least, be in prison. They are the primary reason I carry.

9. Nobody is entirely honest. Everyone has a price, and the price may not be in dollars.

Bet you your law professors never told you these things - at least not all of them.

Now, I don't expect that this post will get much of a response :rolleyes:, but I hope it gets you thinking.

nell67
05-13-2008, 07:06 PM
Awesome post Ken,thanks.

crashdive123
05-13-2008, 07:06 PM
I'll respond. Nice post.

Alpine_Sapper
05-13-2008, 07:26 PM
Awesome post Ken,thanks.

+1

:) :) :)

Rick
05-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Ken - I think you stated that very well.


7. I've been around long enough to learn that I shouldn't judge anyone. I haven't walked in their shoes, lived their life, or come from their background.

This statement offers a lot of insight into who you are as a person. I could not be more in agreement. I just don't consider myself worthy to judge anyone else. I'm too darned busy taking care of my own sins.

My step mother has one of those goofy little signs in her house that 70 something ladies often have. It says, "When you get to thinking you are a person of some importance just try ordering someone else's dog around." That's pretty accurate.

Ole WV Coot
05-13-2008, 10:26 PM
@OldWVCoot: I'm not real sure how to take your post. I half feel insulted, but since I apparently lack social accountability I don't really care. Ultimately though, your post illustrated my point. Don't turn your back on the guy who's confronting you because you don't know what his state of mind is, what he can do, or what he's got.

You got that right, and I could care less either. This poor me I had it tough and because of it I am a bada$$ just don't cut it for me. Me and others probably have had it as bad or worse and made the most of it. It don't make much sense to judge us by any standards you might have. I don't have to prove anything to anybody but myself and 40yrs later I am sorry for things I did because I had to but that can't be taken back so I live with it, I don't brag about anything I've done, don't want to prove anything to anyone just want to be a decent human the rest of my life.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 11:14 PM
LeaveThisLifeGuy,

I don't know what type of law you plan on practicing, but I'll tell you from about 25 years of experience that:

1. My criminal clients (75% of my practice) are very often (not always) good and decent people who are either truly innocent or who have just made a stupid mistake. I represent criminal defendants primarily because the criminal defense bar is the only thing which prevents society from becoming a police state. Without us, the government would go wild and the people would soon be forced to defend themselves against an out-of-control government and police state. How do you like the government scanning your e-mail? Do you think that this site is ever monitored? Why do you REALLY believe cell phones have GPS? Why can't law-abiding citizens carry handguns in many states and cities? My job is to make sure that my client does not go to prison unless the government meets its burden and PROVES his/her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. We're not Venezuela, Zimbabwe, or China. Not yet, anyway. And believe me, the "System" does not favor the guilty. The government has far more resources to prosecute charges than an individual has to defend against them.

2. My criminal clients are generally more honest with me than are other clients.

3. Sometimes people have no viable options in life.

4. A high percentage of people in jail really aren't guilty of the crime(s) they were convicted of. For this, you can thank lousy defense lawyers, shoddy and/or politically motivated investigations and prosecutions (think Duke University), witnesses who lie under oath, the percentage of cops - about 30% from my experience - who lie through their teeth under oath, incompetent judges, etc.

5. Think about #4 if you want to crucify a "convicted sex offender" or a "convicted felon" for the rest of his/her life. I'm sure that at least 100 innocent people were convicted TODAY in courts in the United States.

6. Real decent people may have real ****ty backgrounds. Some people can change, others can't. I have good friends - people who would be there for me no matter what - from almost every walk of life.

7. I've been around long enough to learn that I shouldn't judge anyone. I haven't walked in their shoes, lived their life, or come from their background.

8. Some people ARE bad to the core. Some are just plain dangerous to others. Some are convicted criminals, others are lawyers, and yet others are cops. Many of these people, and there are a lot of them walking around, should, at the very least, be in prison. They are the primary reason I carry.

9. Nobody is entirely honest. Everyone has a price, and the price may not be in dollars.

Bet you your law professors never told you these things - at least not all of them.

Now, I don't expect that this post will get much of a response :rolleyes:, but I hope it gets you thinking.


Thanks Ken, I hear what you're sayin. Interned at the Public Defender's for a semester, but now at a transactional firm. After that PD stint, I can whole-heartedly agree with everything you just posted. However, had to quit because the murdered sons father kept givin me the ice glare on the stand as I took notes from the mouth of the murderer. The guy was guilty, and he deserves representation, it just won't be me. Lost sleep over that one.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-13-2008, 11:18 PM
I said you were confused because that's the emoticon you chose.

If you go back and reread the original post, what I said was "I was one of those guys that half of you carry because of". Maybe I should have changed the font on the WAS

I don't really care what you call your business or your position. I'd like to know the details of the advertising deal you cut with Chris, but that's just idle curiosity because it's the ONLY ad I see. Must have been lucrative.



I wouldn't describe what I did as tasteless. Tasteless is running out on a bar tab without paying. Your acts are yours to find atonement for. While I've alluded to some of the things that I've done, I've not gone into any specifics, and I don't see why I should start with how I've made my amends. suffice to say that I don't lose any sleep at night over where I've been. *MY* conscience is clear. If yours isn't you need to find your own penance, and stop swimming in guilt.

Tell ya what, keep searchin for things to be pissed off about, cuz I'm sure I'll give ya plenty:)

I tried to bury it, you seem to be a stubborn old man, so be it. I recanted, said I read too much into it, and you still wanna be a ****, knock yourself out honey.

Alpine_Sapper
05-13-2008, 11:47 PM
You got that right, and I could care less either. This poor me I had it tough and because of it I am a bada$$ just don't cut it for me. Me and others probably have had it as bad or worse and made the most of it. It don't make much sense to judge us by any standards you might have. I don't have to prove anything to anybody but myself and 40yrs later I am sorry for things I did because I had to but that can't be taken back so I live with it, I don't brag about anything I've done, don't want to prove anything to anyone just want to be a decent human the rest of my life.

*shrug* Sorry if you don't like my attitude. You'll get over it I'm sure.

As for "poor me I had it rough and I'm a badass because of it", you got it all wrong grandpa. I am who I am. If you've read any of my posts, I fight because I enjoy it. That's who I am. I don't give a **** if you think that has to do with where I've been or not. I like physical combat, always have, always will. I make money at the skills I got, regardless of where I got'em from. But I don't hide where I came from, and if there's some survival experience I can share in a conversation, I'm more than willing to do it. Whether it be how to start a fire in inclement weather, or that turning to run in a confrontation will usually get you ****** up. And then I get some moron going "Oh, you're a badass, huh? You're not so tough." Takes a big man to type that half a country away, don't it? It has nothing to do with proving anything to anyone. It's simply who I am.

There are those that I have befriended on the forums, and yes, I do care for them. They could hit me up with a PM and say "Hey, I need help with x." And I'd do what I could, But what makes you think I judge you?

Alpine_Sapper
05-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Tell ya what, keep searchin for things to be pissed off about, cuz I'm sure I'll give ya plenty:)

I tried to bury it, you seem to be a stubborn old man, so be it. I recanted, said I read too much into it, and you still wanna be a ****, knock yourself out honey.

rofl. You think I'm pissed off at you? You got a lot to learn, baby. You don't have enough bearing on my life to get me pissed off. I'm mainly just a smartass. I figured attention to detail is imperative for a lawyer, a wilderness guide, or survival in general. but apparently your sense of humor is lacking.

What you asked was personal, and I can't tell you or Coot or anyone else how to come to terms with what you did in a past life. Some drown it in shine. Some find other ways to deal with it. Each has their own path to walk and has to answer for their own crimes in their own way. Guess you didn't like my answer before, and I'm sure you don't like it being restated here, so there's not really much point in continuing this conversation.

LeaveThisLifeGuy
05-14-2008, 12:02 AM
sooo... you wanna hug it out? :D

Where do you fight?

canid
05-14-2008, 12:28 AM
it's a good post and contains many points worth consideration.

in the true face of the things, how many people do you know who aren't criminals? most of us choose which laws we will abide and which we will not, as they relate to our preferences, our needs, etc. a judicial system striving to be monolithic and universal [within the context of a given jurisdiction] and to universally suit the needs of a diverse populace can not accomodate this reality in a fair manner at all times. add to this the potential for alternative motivations of groups or individuals to subvert the politics of law from a protective entity to a special interest context and you're left with a dificult system to navigate and one which can fall short of the mark easily. there is no perfect integrity to protect the real spirit of the law, only a swamp to harbor rogue entities and sometimes daunt the upright.

judgement is subjective and complicated and in my oppinion, best avoided until there is greatest need. it's always a trap and only seldom needs be walked into.

the overriding point here is not the political aspect; that is merely the context. my concern is the personal. it is only my view that it is worth considering what assumptions build our conclusions

klkak
05-14-2008, 12:29 AM
"This GreenBeret is gonna kick your A**"
"I eat GreanBeret's for breakfast"
"I can't believe this macho bullsh**"

canid
05-14-2008, 12:34 AM
epic movie. and epically campy. gotta love the governator.

klkak
05-14-2008, 12:55 AM
The previous conversation made me think of that line.

Alpine_Sapper
05-14-2008, 03:48 PM
Where do you fight?

I train and spar with guys from most of the "jutsu" schools around here. There are some students from the "do" schools that are serious enough to stick around after the first night, but not many. I don't fight competitively for money simply because I don't train in sport styles, and MMA is a sport style nowadays. I make money by teaching, but I don't take on too many students because I choose not to make it my primary form of income.

klkak
05-14-2008, 04:47 PM
I got into a good Ole fashioned street fight with this guy 3 yrs ago. I hit him so many times on the fist with my forehead that I broke is hand. When he grabbed his hand and started cussing I punched him in the gonads then on the chin when he fell down I kicked him as hard as I could in the gut's and then ran like hell. That was the best fight I almost lost.

nell67
05-14-2008, 04:52 PM
I got into a good Ole fashioned street fight with this guy 3 yrs ago. I hit him so many times on the fist with my forehead that I broke is hand. When he grabbed his hand and started cussing I punched him in the gonads then on the chin when he fell down I kicked him as hard as I could in the gut's and then ran like hell. That was the best fight I almost lost.


klkak,now that made me laugh,been hard pressed to find a reason today.

klkak
05-14-2008, 05:00 PM
I guess it says two things about me.
1. I've got a hard head.
2. I'll kick a man when he's down.

crashdive123
05-14-2008, 05:04 PM
Nah. Just stubborn and resourceful.

Mountaintrekker
05-14-2008, 10:46 PM
Klkak,
That sounds an awfully like a Scottish martial art called FuukYuu, which is mostly head butting and kicking them when there on the ground. <stolen with pride from "So I Married an Axe Murderer".> :)

klkak
05-14-2008, 10:55 PM
As I reflect on it now, it is kind of comical. But before he broke is hand I was getting my butt kicked.

twc6
05-16-2008, 01:18 PM
Well you know what they say, god didnt create all men equal Mr. Colt did-Frank T. Hopkins

Ken
05-16-2008, 01:25 PM
Well you know what they say, god didnt create all men equal Mr. Colt did-Frank T. Hopkins

Nice to hear from you. Care to introduce yourself?

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Is that a Type VII yellow lab?

klkak
05-17-2008, 01:57 AM
I see we have another "drive by poster"

Ken
05-17-2008, 02:10 AM
Yup. I hear tires screeching down the road..........

yellowcab
10-21-2025, 04:55 AM
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Aust (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137807)Dume (http://hangonpart.ru/t/196070)Тере (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/405904)Кува (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/298154)Comt (http://hardasiron.ru/t/328249)Towa (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566231)Ingr (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/303248)Spar (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140766)твор (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/247288)Salv (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/297743)Laur (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/156372)вузо (http://headregulator.ru/t/194849)XVII (http://heartofgold.ru/t/284528)Алек (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/293863)John (http://heatinggas.ru/t/620839)
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Magi (http://knockonatom.ru/t/456128)Б*Ш0 (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604180)Andy (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/253628)Dani (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/773751)Zone (http://laborracket.ru/t/157603)Bowm (http://labourearnings.ru/t/252811)Амла (http://labourleasing.ru/t/363255)ВВ*о (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/669478)Ц-64 (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/573759)Dixi (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/537107)прир (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/521438)Иллю (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/298934)Javi (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/173345)Ходж (http://laggingload.ru/t/285480)очер (http://laissezaller.ru/t/300708)
нова (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/193110)Самм (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/319783)Volt (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/295181)Цапе (http://lamphouse.ru/t/479192)марш (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/298351)Jami (http://lancingdie.ru/t/171739)худо (http://landingdoor.ru/t/278535)Robe (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/654368)ulti (http://landreform.ru/t/468621)Дуди (http://landuseratio.ru/t/300166)McBa (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/662631)1/XI (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161719)скор (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1163955)Blue (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/675)хоро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590967)

yellowcab
10-21-2025, 04:56 AM
беже (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178987)Elec (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452899)Бело (http://layabout.ru/shop/453544)Кита (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600265)пове (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106192)Сама (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466013)Timo (http://leaveword.ru/shop/466786)Арти (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/270038)PETE (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/575896)Acro (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446001)MBXX (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268987)Silv (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/577226)Chis (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/576079)Hyun (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612374)откр (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1040424)
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yellowcab
01-02-2026, 05:50 PM
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yellowcab
01-02-2026, 05:51 PM
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yellowcab
04-02-2026, 03:20 AM
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Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191799)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193338)02-1 (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1184040)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184941)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184880)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186309)зака (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188497)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184649)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186784)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185109)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190908)укра (http://largeheart.ru)свин (http://lasercalibration.ru)меся (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1827)Хубэ (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab
04-02-2026, 03:21 AM
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