crossing cold waters: with or without clothes?

[StehtimSchilf]

Hi survival forum

I'm watching a survival tv series (some parts may be scripted reality) of ordinary people passing one week in the mountains with nothing else than their clothes and backpack with waterbottle. Everyday there are challenges and those who pass get some food. There are a lot of challenges involving cold water (about 8°C) e.g. build a raft, cross a river on a single rope or just cross it by swimming. Failing means often you get wet and have to wear your wet clothes all day long - at least it is implied by the script. Interestingly they keep their gear on - even the shoes - allthough parts get completly wet (e.g. river raft challenge).

IRL in a survival situation, say you have to cross a cold river by swiming, wouldn't it be smarter to take off your clothes, wrap them in your raincoat, put them in your waterproofed backpack and then cross the river? So you have at least dry clothes? I don't think the clothes warm you because they are complete wet - even the shoes - or do they?

In which situation would you take off your clothes and when keep them on? Even if I could make a fire on the other side - it takes precious time to dry your clothes and what do you wear meanwhile (some episodes take place in winter!)?

What would a wilderness survival forum member do?

cheerioh
SiS

[hunter63]

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome......
There is an intro section if you care to say Hello....at;
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Introductions

If it is a "planned" crossing, and not a "falling in"....I prefer to strip down and have dry clothes to put on when/if I get there.
I carry a plastic contractor garbage bag in my gear/coat...day clothes being one of the reasons.

Has crossed streams to retrieve dead deer or save myself a longer walk, "all the away around".......

BTW my 10 year old son thought it was extremely funny seeing Dad, strip down from the waist....and freezing my fanny off.....to drag a deer back across.....
Made an impression I guess.....to the point of seeing another deer on the other side the following year and having him say....."We aren't gonna shoot that one, this year...are we?"

Have gone in many times, various degrees of getting soaked and had to start a fire to dry wet clothes off....and that is NOT the time to gather fire making material and try hand/bow drill fires.

Bic, Zippo, matches, dry tinder, fat wood or even a candle end/wax fire starter is helpful.......or Orion Road Flare.

Wool clothes help......

Always remember, TV guys have a crew,.... I have never had a crew.....just friends, that may just laugh at you.....LOL(not really)

[Old Professor]

I waded across a small river/creek in December (deer Season)many years ago. About 20 degrees above zero that day. During the day, the creek rose, probably a foot or more. Tried to wade back across that afternoon, stepped in a hole and fell face down in the creek. That is the coldest I have ever been! I was only a quarter mile from the house but by the time I jogged there, my clothing was frozen stiff! Had my father and uncle swamp a home made plywood boat trying to cross Tionesta Creek in NW Pa. They spent opening day sitting in the car with the heater going full blast, trying to dry out their clothes. At least they had sense enough not to take their rifles along on that maiden voyage ! Moral of these examples is: go the long way around if you can or strip down and keep your clothes dry, if possible.

[DSJohnson]

As usual I agree with Hunter about this. I like to end up with dry clothes at the end of my adventure. If I absolutely have to cross water, and have time, three things happen, if possible. I carry a couple of fresh unused 2 gallon zip locks in my kit to store my clothes in if I am having to cross water and carry gear. I also have most all my kit is pretty water resistant smaller bags inside of my ruck. (Old Boy Scout deal: Your pack is a big bag filled with smaller bags) So I strip off what I am wearing and store it all and swim or wade with my pack either roped and dragging on a crude raft or just playing a rope out to drag/high line my kit across after I make it. I have absolutely no intention of ATTEMPTING to cross a 100 yards of water in "Cold" weather regardless of situation. I will either build a "bull" boat or walk along the shore. But mostly I will just camp by the big body of water and wait for help. That is if I absolutely have to move from my crash site or landing area or drop off point. If I am going into water and coming directly back to the same spot then I build a quick "shelter/tarp lean-to" and a SAFE fire with lots of extra firewood ready to use when I get back from the swim/wading exercise. Not sure what kind of scenario would make this a good choice except for ratings on a TV show. In the real world, why would this be a "have to" action? One of the biggest tenets of "Survival" is to stay where you are so it is easier to find you rather than chasing a moving target. Makes very little sense to me unless we are talking Zombies chasing me.......
By the way, I have crossed water in cold weather to shorten a trip home and also, once, like Hunter to recover meat. Both times I stripped down and stored my clothes in a plastic bag. Once I built camp and had a fire going before I crossed a pretty "significant" water feature to retrieve a mule deer that I had killed. But I was very confident it was not going anywhere and there was zero danger of spoilage. Of course I still took a small day pack(rope, FAK, knives, G.I. canteen w/cup, matches, pair of shorts(my emergency set from my big bag) and carried my boots around my neck to have when I got on the other side. It was bear country so I carried my rifle with me as well.

[Rick]

Is it just me or does the answer to this seem a bit intuitive?

[crashdive123]

Is it just me or does the answer to this seem a bit intuitive?

Now he tells me.


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5019/5395305196_3b792ce8b9_z.jpg

[ClayPick]

A bindle would help keep clothing high and dry. The hobos knew their stuff.

[hunter63]

A bindle would help keep clothing high and dry. The hobos knew their stuff.

Bingo.....I wasn't just for looking like hobo on Halloween.

....and in bear country, carrying your rifle/handgun.....and canteen even to the out house( loosely used term, in this case).

....and Rick, didn't "intuitive" as well as common sense go away when Siri showed up?

[Billofthenorth]

In the Marines we were taught a method of putting all our clothing in our pack and wrapping the pack with a poncho. This made a fairly waterproof float which we could hold onto if we had to swim across. Once across our clothing was mostly dry. Of course we weren't on a television show when we did this and a bunch of jarheads being naked in front of each other wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

[kyratshooter]

I was just considering the fact that the last time I was required to do a water crossing was when I was in the Army.

That was 40 years ago and since then I have let common sense rule.

I will walk a mile and drive another ten miles before I will cross 50 feet of cold water!

I'm a southern boy, that's one of our rules.

[DSJohnson]

When I had my Scout troop we talked about and actually did a lot of creek crossings as part of the Hiking Merit Badge requirements. Today I am really not sure what it would take to get me to attempt to cross a "real" river/waterway with a current and that I may have to swim at least part of the way. Swimming with gear, wither you are pushing a floating pack or pulling/towing a dry bag is not for the old and faint of heart or anyone who is not in really good physical condition. Wading across a creek with my EDC, a rifle, and day pack is pretty darn tricky if the creek is deeper than knee deep and more than 10 feet wide. As I said earlier I will just rejoice in the resource and make my camp on this side of it. Set some fish traps, maybe a few limb lines, look for mussels, and wait for the sun to go down.

[NightSG]

IRL in a survival situation, say you have to cross a cold river by swiming, wouldn't it be smarter to take off your clothes, wrap them in your raincoat, put them in your waterproofed backpack and then cross the river?

Even if it's not cold, why get your drawers wet knowing you're still going to be doing a lot more walking afterward?

[hunter63]

Even if it's not cold, why get your drawers wet knowing you're still going to be doing a lot more walking afterward?

Don't think the guy is coming back....But was still a good thread anyway......
Wonder what happen to him.....froze his fanny I suspect.....

[LowKey]

Whenever I go fishing/boating I always have a spare set of clothes and shoes in the car. The planned wading isn't so bad. It's those canoe wrecks that just happen out of the blue you gotta watch out for.

[WalkingTree]

In certain instances I'd fashion and use a bindle. But from the experience of using it, it evolved...

Firstly, I'd hang something from each end. Front and back (Having that much stuff to carry.) Just preferred it on these occasions over a pack of any sort. Seemed quicker and more convenient. It just resting on my shoulder was great.

But I noticed that from my walking gait, no matter what gait I adopted, whether I only had something on the back end or both ends...what was hanging would swing back and forth in a way that became bothersome. Accounting for it in how I walked seemed to take more effort than it seemed like simple walking should be, and got tiresome.

So this evolved into a shorter stick, bringing things closer to my body (If only having something on the back end, I'd choke it up to have it almost resting against my back).

At some point I realized that even having a stick in the first place was more than what was necessary. Was inefficient. Too advanced, and caused problems from being too much. So the stick just went away, and now it's even simpler - just a short strap of any kind, both ends of which attach to a fore and aft package, and they hang right over my shoulder against my chest and back respectively. I found this to be even better than a classic bindle. And then I saw similar techniques on the show The Revenant about Hugh Glass - showing that of course way back then they figured this out...in this case, they had things hanging around the back of their neck with two packages in front on each side, and then another against their back which hung by going around their forehead.

I think the plus with these approaches, which is the intention that got me started on it in the first place, is the simplicity of anything that'll form a bag by bringing up the corners or sides, then anything which will serve as cord or strap etc. And it ends up being a very easy way to carry things, very low tech, and open to improvisation.

Basically in my experience...a bindle looks cool in a picture, and I don't know if they really used it much back then and how it worked and if they didn't find out what I found out - but, upon actually using in real life practice, I found that having any kind of stick in the first place is both way too unnecessary and a bit uncomfortable, which of course makes a difference when making a trek of any distance.

[hunter63]

I prefer to carry the pack....use the stick for balance and feeling along in front of you.....

[StehtimSchilf]

Hi members

I'm sorry for not responding anymore. The TV series was over and I totally forgot about my post here.

I'd like thank you all for your interesting detailed answers. Even they were differing. But as some mentioned it really depends on the given situation (temperature, detour to take, nearest shelter for warm-up, ...).

After reading the stores of Hunter63 or Old Professor or DSJohnson I must admit we (here were I live) are far away from "survival situations/terrain".

To summarize:

avoid if possible (kriatshooter's rule)
I like the bindle idea for calm waters (claypick)
ensure you might find shelter, ignite a camp fire after crossing



I like DSJohnson's objections:

stay where you are (DSJohnson) instead of getting freez you fanny off (i like that expression :) )



But this is another question for another topic. When to stay where you are (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANSA_Flight_508 where a female survived a plane crash and crawled 10 days through the jungle)

Unfortunately I ill-formed my question. "IRL survival situation" and then stating: put everything in your backpack and warp it in your rain coat (what we acutally did in the military service) wouldn't be an option when you fall out of a plane :D Also you won't have any tools to start a fire (cold = winter/snow season). In this situation I assume southern rule applies: walk another mile before crossing 50 feet deep water.

If I'll find myself in such a situation - and will survive it - i'll come back to post my thoughts and and what I've done!

Thank you all
SiS

[natertot]

I've never had to cross anything that was more than knee deep or so. I took off socks/shoes and rolled up the pants. Anything deeper than the knees and a current can get you. I've always gone around or found a bridges (fallen tree) across.

[NightSG]

ensure you might find shelter, ignite a camp fire after crossing

Build a small, safe fire (in a pit well clear of vegetation) before crossing, and if at all possible, carry fire to the other side. If the crossing turns out harder than you thought, you can go back and build up the fire you left behind. If you made it across, having an ember eliminates the hardest part of starting a primitive fire.

[kyratshooter]

Before anyone does any of this cold weather stream crossing please let me know.

I want to be there when you go gonads deep in that 34 degree water, your eyes roll up inside your head, you go into shock and float downstream, bindle and all!

Just for practice why don't we all hook up our shower to the icemaker on the fridge and see how it works out for us.

[hunter63]

One particular "creek bath"....was 70's during bow season, and a couple of days on "camping" made a bend in the river look mighty inviting.
Slow water on the shallow outside of the bend was warm enough to strip down for a pleasant Ivory(floats) and water scrub down...
What ever possessed me to jump into the shady deep pool on the inside of the bend.......resulted in the foresaid gonad sucking, stopped heart, and the quick acquisition of the famed "toe walk" to the top of the sunlit bank.....in a nano-second...."OMG" was invented that day followed by the now famous WTF.....and is always a very religious experience, at least judging but the number of deities mentioned in the after event tirade.

Also a word to the wise....practicing the canoe roll in warm weather, in preparation of a cold weather canoe swamp and dump....(when the guns and ammo go down....and many of us have experience this tragedy more that once.

[DSJohnson]

Dang, I can not give you any "rep" for that Kyrats. I am pretty sure that is exactly what would happen to me!

[WalkingTree]

Once when in Kentucky I had to take a bath in a river...it was late winter/early spring and I found the river to still be quite cold. Quite cold. And the air was cold also. Well, I didn't get in the river but just splashed around a bit with it's water while on the bank. And oh boy, it was right past the edge of what I could take. That "splash bath" was kind of a struggle. And I already know anyway (before this time) that I just couldn't handle...and possibly not survive...a complete dunk in water that is truly cold. You can forget it. Ain't gonna do it.

[NightSG]

Once when in Kentucky I had to take a bath in a river...it was late winter/early spring and I found the river to still be quite cold. Quite cold. And the air was cold also. Well, I didn't get in the river but just splashed around a bit with it's water while on the bank. And oh boy, it was right past the edge of what I could take. That "splash bath" was kind of a struggle. And I already know anyway (before this time) that I just couldn't handle...and possibly not survive...a complete dunk in water that is truly cold. You can forget it. Ain't gonna do it.

If you have water and fire, there's really no excuse for taking a cold bath. I can get passably clean with a liter of water heated directly in the soda bottle in a pinch. Done it a couple times when I decided to go straight to church from camp on a Sunday morning. My preference, of course, is to boil about a liter, then dump it into a 3 gallon bucket and add cold until it's right, then "shower" with a cup, but those times I was packing and washing at the same time, or had already packed when I realized I didn't have time to go home and shower. (Used to always keep a sport coat, slacks and dress shirt in the car so I wouldn't have to go anywhere severely underdressed.)

[crashdive123]

Speaking of cold water bathing.........(sorry - this is kind of long)

In the mid 70's while on a cross country motorcycle trip (camping the whole time) I stopped at a State Campground in Colorado. It had always been on my list to camp along the Colorado River and take a bath in it (who knows why).

The campground was pretty wide open and I was the only camper there. Payment was on the honor system. I paid my $4 and another $4 for a couple of bundles of firewood. I pitched my little pup tent near the river, cooked up some supper and settled in with a few adult beverages.

I woke early (about 4 AM) and thought "Gee, why are the sides of my pup tent all pushed in?"

As I opened the flaps to the tent all I saw was a wall of snow. Much to my dismay, it had snowed a few feet overnight.

I got dressed, cleared a path to my firewood and prepared a fire. I poured a little Coleman fuel on it, but did not light it yet. Since I'm the only one in the campground, and the desire to bathe in the Colorado River was still strong, I striped down, grabbed a bar of soap and headed to the river.

The naked walk through the snow was chilly, but nothing like the sudden and complete immersion into the water. This was the quickest bath I had ever taken.

I got out and headed to my fire setup. Lit the fire and was quickly warming up and drying off in front of the fire thinking that I'm sure glad I'm the only one in the campground. As I started to warm up the thoughts of how I was going to get the motorcycle on the road entered my mind. A noise behind me (not all that far behind me) caused those thoughts to fly away. I turned (in all of my naked glory) to see what the noise was.

Much to my surprise, I was no longer the only camper in the campground. The woman that had just opened the door to her travel trailer exclaimed "Oh my!"

While I got to check camping and bathing in the Colorado River off my list, she is probably still having nightmares some 40 years later.

[Tony uk]

For river crossings i take the majority of my kit off, into the waterproof sack on my pack, rubber glove tops over the boots & socks, then walk through using the pack as a semi-float. Make sure to keep the knees facing into the water so they brace out.

Tonyuk

[Antonyraison]

Depends, If I fell into the cold waters, I wouldn't have much choice.
If it where a planned crossing, i would take off clothing put in a dry bag or packet.
Make the crossing and get dry and warm as soon as I can afterwards.
I have only done the "hypothermia" training on a course (doing my advanced survival) in the middle of winter here in SA in a dam for about 20 minutes..
and it wasn't very cold so too speak, maybe about 10deg celisus..
But all I can say is that it is not easy to start a fire when your could and wet, and possibly mildly hypothermic, your gross motor skills take a hammering, and it is not as easy as you would think to get a fire going under those circumstances..