Need some help Foraging for food.

[Wise Old Owl]

The forums are cool - I just had a thought after several seasons of experts starving their butts on TV - that foraging for food isn't discussed enough... Last week someone posted trot line... I bet its illegal and I don't care - but in a pinch I would add that to my kit. Pre-assembled.


I am looking for something beyond ramps and frog jigs. Just good posts about in a pinch say in the Appalachia region or the Smokies what would you do? Or what would you take with you?

No wrong answers. Just good conversation. GOOD THOUGHTS?

[TXyakr]

In Texas and may others trot and limb lines etc. are legal and can be effective once you get some experience and use common sense and appropriate rigging follow regulations etc. Don't string a line completely across a stream or river, I cut those down quite often and will go out of my way to do so. Can also use similar gear to snare small game in true survival situation but in practice, i.e. camping this is usually illegal and very cruel. One reason I remove all trot and similar lines that I find that are not in compliance with State and local law.
Consider swivels even if catfish are not intended fish, may catch some and all fish and turtles etc. twist line then it breaks, also easy to attach loop of line or clip to with short 6-18" to hook(s).

[Rick]

Remembering that food is not that high on the requirement list, the one kit item I have are nets. They are illegal for game fish around here but if it were starve to death or eat then the nets would be used to seine with. Trot lines, bank lines and jugs are all legal here and I do have the components set aside for that. In fact, I just added a trot line to a survival kit this past week. Squirrels can be taken with any method in season around here. That lends itself to a lot of ways to gather protein. Snares are certainly a part of my kits and I have larger commercial snares for larger game like raccoon and possum.

In the short term food is a psychological boost rather than a physical requirement for life so our efforts are better spent on other items. If it were a large scale natural disaster rather then simply being lost in the woods I'd probably spend my time foraging canned goods.

[DSJohnson]

Rick,
Not meaning any disrespect or trying to be a pot stirrer but do you seriously expect there to be any canned goods left after the first 24 hours of a "large scale natural disaster" type scenario? I know this is a deep, deep hole but I am curious what your thoughts are. I agree 100% with your point about food not being high on "the list" for a short term incident. I also agree that a good net would be invaluable in a longer term situation, along with fish traps, throw lines, limb lines, jug lines, bank lines and trot lines.

Wise Old Owl,
I like the idea of snares but have never actually felt very confident with them and they are not legal here in Oklahoma so I have never felt good about "practicing" much with real wire/cable snares. I am very confident with Conibears and Victor styles and have both leg traps and head traps on the place. Are you talking about foraging from your homeplace or are we refugees?

[hunter63]

Depending on plants is highly local, and very seasonal.....
ID plant,...
What part is edible?
When?
How long?
Taste?....might not kill ya be hard to eat.

Small game will be spotty as well, but traps, snares do work......just need a lot of them
Fishing...by however method, if you have water....may be the best bet for protein....also turtles, crawfish.

Making the assumption that we are not dealing with season, and laws.
(if we are...Then..Just get caught, go to jail, ...3 hot's and cot, and TV)

Foraging for canned goods ( for any commercial/home goods) means having to go where they are, and get them before some one else does....or want to keep.

Risk/reward......?

Better to have caches (several) in your area.

I think our experts are out of their element, didn't research, and had a inflated ego.......
May do better after hitting bottom....then stay.

[kyratshooter]

Rick,
Not meaning any disrespect or trying to be a pot stirrer but do you seriously expect there to be any canned goods left after the first 24 hours of a "large scale natural disaster" type scenario? I know this is a deep, deep hole but I am curious what your thoughts are. I agree 100% with your point about food not being high on "the list" for a short term incident. I also agree that a good net would be invaluable in a longer term situation, along with fish traps, throw lines, limb lines, jug lines, bank lines and trot lines.

Wise Old Owl,
I like the idea of snares but have never actually felt very confident with them and they are not legal here in Oklahoma so I have never felt good about "practicing" much with real wire/cable snares. I am very confident with Conibears and Victor styles and have both leg traps and head traps on the place. Are you talking about foraging from your homeplace or are we refugees?

I have lived through several natural disasters that lasted for more than 24 hours and never found a shortage of food as a primary concern.

If you are talking about Yellowstone blowing up or the sinking of Atlantis it might be a possible concern.

My own entry into preparing for emergencies was due to a tornado/flood incident that separated me from civilization for over a week, but that was in 1970, and I'm still here. I think I survived on bennie-weinies and canned chili.

As soon as the roads were cleared I was in town buying a Coleman stove and lantern. I have never been without a months' food in the pantry since then.

[Rick]

I wasn't thinking grocery store. I was thinking remains of buildings. If you've lived through a large scale tornado then you know stuff is scattered hither and yon including can goods. Just one example.

[Lamewolf]

I have lived through several natural disasters that lasted for more than 24 hours and never found a shortage of food as a primary concern.

If you are talking about Yellowstone blowing up or the sinking of Atlantis it might be a possible concern.

My own entry into preparing for emergencies was due to a tornado/flood incident that separated me from civilization for over a week, but that was in 1970, and I'm still here. I think I survived on bennie-weinies and canned chili.

As soon as the roads were cleared I was in town buying a Coleman stove and lantern. I have never been without a months' food in the pantry since then.

In the blizzard of 1978, there was a trucker stranded in his tractor trailer for 5 days and he survived on Vienna sausages, snow, and toothpaste ! :no:

[Rick]

It wouldn't have been so bad if he delivered bacon or spam. That would have been like...well...heaven.

[Canadian-guerilla]

I am looking for something beyond ramps and frog jigs. Just good posts about in a pinch say in the Appalachia region or the Smokies what would you do? Or what would you take with you?

No wrong answers. Just good conversation. GOOD THOUGHTS?

do you have a phone with internet access ?
get out in the woods and see what's in your area
GOOGLE IMAGES is your friend for ID'ing wild edibles

[hunter63]

Beer truck driver got stranded for a week....traffic jamb was only for a couple of hours....took that long to run out of beer?

[LowKey]

The only foraging for canned goods I plan on doing is walking down the cellar stairs. If I have to bug out it'll be to a relatives house north of here or to a friends house to the south.

If Yellowstone blows up, yeah that could be a problem after a while. But if I get snowed in for 2 or 3 weeks, no problem. And right now that is highest on the list of probabilities. Not going out foraging at -20 and a foot of snow on the ground.

Gray squirrels can only be taken in December-February here. Same with rabbits. With a hunting license.
Red squirrels and chipmunks are fair game any time. Never eaten either but catch chipmunks out in the garden using rat traps.
Snares are illegal.
So are trot lines and any other unattended fishing device.

As for foraging out in the 'wild' I have my yard planted with native edibles. Trouble is, you can't plant enough on an acre to be self-sufficient for even 2 people. At least not without a hellacious amount of work and especially when 1/4 of the yard is leach field. To think that you might be able to forage in the wild in a yellowstone like event, well it's you and everyone else out there. Grass and green leaves are all going to start looking mighty tasty. Just be sure you know which green leaves aren't going to kill you. There's Digitalis in my yard, in the flower bed because it is pretty when it flowers. Might not want to be stealing those leaves in the dark of night thinking they are lettuce...

[kyratshooter]

The thought of living on foraged foods in the southern Appellations is distressing.

Foraged wild food is the ultimate in seasonal eating and in winter everything is out of season for 6 months.

Even the Native Americans of the Archaic culture cultivated groves of forest plants and moved from one place to another to survive as new plants came into season, not able to depend on the scattered resources of the forest. The acorn harvest was a big deal and a good crop insured survival through the winter.

The Woodland culture went the whole 9 yards and turned to full scale agriculture.

In other words, an Indian could not even live on foraged wild plants!

It's a myth.

[LowKey]

The Native Americans were harvesting corn, squash and beans and storing them for winter long before the first settlers arrived.
I've never understood the concept of trying to live off the land without some sort of planted crops.
I get a kick out of people who buy Garden-in-a-can for emergencies. Do you have the half acre tilled, fertile, and ready to go? Sure, keep the cans as a backup as long as you can in case of a crop seed failure, but you should have a plan already in action if you plan to "live off the land."

[Rick]

Snares are illegal. So are trot lines and any other unattended fishing devices.

Seriously, you have to move to America.

[hunter63]

You have to be "surviving".......not just playing.....and if you get caught.....problem solved....they feed you in jail.

[Wise Old Owl]

I wasn't thinking grocery store. I was thinking remains of buildings. If you've lived through a large scale tornado then you know stuff is scattered hither and yon including can goods. Just one example.

I do a lot of termite inspections in basements. The general public doesn't store food anymore.

I was looking more for foraging beyond the homestead

[LowKey]

Rick, I wish. There are a lot of patriots spinning in their graves here in New England...
And we're cut off completely from the rest of the country by NewYorkistan.

KYRat, your post made me do some research on Native Americans and the practice of growing crops. Even though I knew that the Indians the Pilgrims encountered grew the 3 Sisters, I never really pictured the northern tribes as farmers, living in the woodlands as they did, but they were. Even the nomadic Plains tribes planted crops, coming back later in the year to harvest, and they traded for corn and other crops with those that grew them in more settled tribes. Thanks for the insight. It was a large missing piece to puzzle I've been trying to complete.

[Rick]

The general public doesn't store food anymore.

Of course they do. It's called their kitchen. In any large scale disaster most folks would die from bad water or lack of water long before they starve to death. Look at how many die in refugee camps from cholera. I think you are looking at too narrow a definition of foraging. Staying alive is about understanding the natural progression and limitations of human requirements and seeing the possibilities in those limitations. While I can make pine cambium edible I'm not going to pass up a can of beans if it presents itself.

[Wise Old Owl]

I Get into HUD and working poor, as well as the Mc Mansions as we call them. A good 75% is calls for Ants after they have given it a try. 1-say about twenty calls I see a Can filled larder, with respect for the poor lots of cereal boxes and a filled refrigerator. Twice in six years, I saw active Bell Jar canning. These are just observations... I would say at best most people would make a week or two.


Anyway back to the fields and edible pine cambium & Pine Nuts


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XJMIu18I8Y

[TXyakr]

Those 2 convicts that escaped from prison in upstate NY foraged for canned/dry goods in cabins for several days successfully. Most people leave some food in their vacation homes/trailers/cabins etc. Also plenty of carbohydrates if you know what plants to look for, but protein is hard to find; you can go a week and still not get extremely weak without it. Headaches pass in a day or two, I find I move slower physically and mentally. Good idea to fast for a few days at least once a year so you know how your mind and body will react, also good for you mentally, physically etc. I often eat a light breakfast at 5-6 am work outside, manual labor, outdoor recreation until I eat a meal at about 3-6 pm. I only have water that whole time, but heavy physical activities with only water for 2-3 days is much harder, for a week it is extremely difficult. I stay fairly thin, this shrinks the stomach.

I took photo of a sign with fishing regulations in Central Park, Manhattan NYC. Several people were fishing there, I saw sunfish (bluegill) up to about 8" long. Barbless hooks and all "catch and release", no lead, basically. Waste of time IMO.

If you place a snare or trap for wildlife, mammals on land or water these work better if you can use stone, sticks and other vegetation to form a funnel toward the net or snare or even hooks of trot/limb line if there is not already a natural narrowing of path. Most animals will sense even a very thin black wire or clear fishline and avoid it if at all possible. Easy to see if it has snowed or tracks in mud, they may have used path may times, then you set snare there they go right around it or tug at from side, set it off then get the food or bait. I have heard people say there just aren't any animals here. Wish I had game cam to show everything that walked around their snare/trap. Similar with people fishing with poor choice of fishing lure/bait or stiff rod tip and not feeling anything, or casting few feet in wrong place. Knowledge and experience is priceless. Ignorance is waste of time and/or supper of canned spam or something else from grocery store and a heavy backpack.

edit: seine or casting nets are legal in many places as long as small gauge/spacing for bait fish not game fish but be sure to check regulations for the specific body of water you are practicing on and practice as often as possible. In my experience this takes a lot of experience to have any regular and repeated success. Many things can go wrong. A lot of liter gets hung up in the nets, they tear, fish are not typically in open areas very often unless larger game fish push them there toward the surface, feeding near surface on plankton or bait fish that do and you don't spook them, then you need a boat to go to where birds are diving on them. Skill to cast net, or set up seine properly and at a good location, i.e. narrow place in stream or where plankton drifts to in lake. You could have the best food gathering tools but without skill and experience it is as worthless as in wilderness with helicopter + fuel and no knowledge of how to fly it out. BTW if you catch large or small game fish (most catfish are game fish) when practicing just release immediately, game warden may be "under cover" or not in uniform using camera/phone in video mode nearby, also any law enforcement can ticket/fine you and many like to fish and know regulations.

Texas Regulations for Seine Net and other legal devices:
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/fishing/general-rules-regulations/legal-devices-for-fish

"A seine is a section of non-metallic mesh webbing, with the top edge buoyed upwards by a floatline and the bottom edge weighted. Includes a push net.

May be used to take NONGAME fish and shrimp only.
May not be longer than 20 feet.
May not have mesh exceeding 1/2-inch square.
Must be manually operated.
In SALT WATER, nongame fish may be taken by seine for bait purposes only."

But some rivers, streams and lakes and private ponds etc. are specifically limited to only one pole and no barbs, these are generally NOT in a wilderness where a person would be "surviving."
I have never been arrested for eating my bait, :fishface:

One of many youtube videos of a person using a one person short seine net, often better to work it up under the under cut banks of a stream or lake then bring poles tips at bottom together add more weight to bottom (rounded pebbles in seam or whatever). Many sucker fish that are very boney but eatable just make a soup and strain the bones out if you are very hungry. Also small crayfish and fresh water shrimp are OK in stew or soup with a starch, shoots of cattail or roots of smilax or whatever you can find or have in backpack. No-see-um mesh over dip-net works but small area is less effective. Make dip-net out of willow branches.


https://youtu.be/Ulx3L2y3mZY

[hunter63]

..............

Anyway back to the fields and edible pine cambium & Pine Nuts


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XJMIu18I8Y

Didn't he pass on for Dutch Elm disease?.........
Naw....was Marfan's syndrome.....
Never mind.

[Wise Old Owl]

Hey imagine how little time it took to find it after scratching my head for 15minutes... "Now what was his name?":blush:

[hunter63]

I can remember the ad.....LOL...on one of 3 channels....back when.

[Rick]

Euell Gibbons. (Check the title of the vid)

[TXyakr]

Good video of a young guy using seine net with 2 sticks to catch bait fish in local stream for game fishing later. Advantage is it is very light weight and portable compared to most fish traps and fast if water is very cold, but cannot tie to rope and drop in like a wire/basket trap, i.e. sometimes you can stay dry if using crayfish and minnow traps or even a casting net.


https://youtu.be/QVhO7pY1iEE

[Wise Old Owl]

Good video of a young guy using seine net with 2 sticks to catch bait fish in local stream for game fishing later. Advantage is it is very light weight and portable compared to most fish traps and fast if water is very cold, but cannot tie to rope and drop in like a wire/basket trap, i.e. sometimes you can stay dry if using crayfish and minnow traps or even a casting net.


https://youtu.be/QVhO7pY1iEE

That's what the Mosquito nets are for - Dual use.