Bugging out during martial law?

[eaglescout123]

I need all the info you guys can give me on getting out of dodge during martial law.

[Rick]

It's pretty easy. Go before curfew. Pack your car and drive in whatever direction you want. If you try after curfew there's a really good chance you'll be arrested.

[DSJohnson]

Eaglescout,
Welcome to the Forums. When you say "bugging out" does that mean you are never coming back to your current location? also Are you talking about travel during a real martial law declaration?

[hunter63]

First get your self an ambulance,...... out fit it with multi fuel capability, with on board gen set, rack it out, survival gear, water tank, extra fuel.
Mark truck up as "Biohazard Quarantine transport unit".......get biohazard suits helmets, respirators, go where ever you want.
$ 100,000 bucks should be a good start.

[Wildthang]

Eagle unless you live in the deep dark ghetto, you may just consider prepping to bug in! That will most likely be the safest plan for most people!
It greatly depends on where you live! Going out in during a martial law situation could be much more dangerous than just staying home and holding your ground!
If you have a couple of guns and a good stash of ammo chances are you can hold your ground, and still be safer than out on the road running the gauntlet!

[Wildthang]

First get you self a not to old ambulance, out fit it with multi fuel capability, with on board gen set, rack it out, survival gear, water tank, extra fuel.
Mark truck up as "Biohazard Quarantine transport unit".......get biohazard suits helmets, respirators, go where ever you want.

Or put big stickers on it that say, Insurance Policies available here! Nobody wants to be around an insurance salesman!

[kyratshooter]

Martial law is enforced specifically to control the movement of the population.

You will do exactly as you are told during the enforcement of martial law, which usually includes road blocks, vehicle searches and the requirement for travel papers giving permission to move from place to place.

martial law also eliminates the need for warrants, probable cause is "good enough" for detainment, trials are in military court and there is very little in the way of appeals system.

If you are going to "bug out" it best be done before ML is announced.

PS: They can also demand that everyone out of place go back their proper location and lots of other nasty and intrusive control methods.

Since I already live on my BOL, and I am certain you do not own one, please stay the he!! away from my place, I have not worked on it for 6 years just for you to show up unannounced, on the run, and without proper travel documents.

[natertot]

The best way to accomplish movement during martial law is know what is acceptable and what is not during martial law. Do everything you can to not get caught and fully give the appearance that you are doing what is acceptable.

Everything KyRat said is spot on. Although I personally do not see the Constitutionality of it and think it is wrong beyond wrong.

[Seniorman]

" ... I personally do not see the Constitutionality of it [Martial Law] and think it is wrong beyond wrong.

Our Illustrious Masters could not possibly care less about the Constitution. They are about unlimited and unstoppable power.

It has been the same because of Human Nature throughout Mankind's history. The only thing that has changed is technology.

S.M.

[finallyME]

The easiest way is to not live in Dodge in the first place. Other than that, leave before curfew.

[canid]

The easiest way is to not live in Dodge in the first place. Other than that, leave before curfew.
haha.

Why is martial law being declared anyway in this scenario? Should I want to be running around away from home at this hypothetical juncture? Quite possibly; most likely not.

[hayshaker]

what's all this martial law stuff? we have a good and just govt. our dollar is as solid
as a rock and everyone around the world loves america. i heard this on foxnews and msbc
so it's gotta be true right. so don't worry it's all good yeah that's the ticket.

[LowKey]

Any chance you are in Texas?

[welderguy]

Any chance you are in Texas?

"jade helm" ?

[LowKey]

:yes:
Jade Helm.

[kyratshooter]

What Would Vlad Do

Talking about sending troops into the most conservative areas of the nation to remind folks who is boss might be considered a political discussion.

[LowKey]

Ya think?
BTW, like your sig line. LOL.

[natertot]

What Would Vlad Do

Talking about sending troops into the most conservative areas of the nation to remind folks who is boss might be considered a political discussion.

Yeah, and how well do you think that move will go over? Here, Vlad might do that one day, counter measures will follow the next.

[eaglescout123]

no i dont live in texas, i live in northern California. I know as much as anyone else would know about jade helm, so i just have to wait and see what happens.
"what's all this martial law stuff? we have a good and just govt. our dollar is as solid
as a rock and everyone around the world loves america. i heard this on foxnews and msbc
so it's gotta be true right. so don't worry it's all good yeah that's the ticket."
Eveything you said there is a lie, but you could have just been sarcastic. it's hard to tell when you're not face to face.

[hayshaker]

it was all sarcasim, eaglescout,

[hayshaker]

although many moons ago it was all true ecept the part about govt being good ALL Govts are corrupt
some more than others. some things have changed and some have not or have got worse.

[crashdive123]

Good luck with that.

[Rick]

I'm not sure why we insist on personifying government. Governments are run by people. Some people are good. Some people are not so good. Some people are just evil. Sort of like society as a whole.

[madmax]

Let's talk about yer avatar rick. Pretty weird. LOL, Yeah I'm pushy, Snort. Hope you take this in the best way.,,

[Rick]

This from a bare chested guy with a rag on his head trying to launch a burning stick. So noted. :brickwall:

[kyratshooter]

Someone please lock this thread!

We will never have a better end than the last exchange!

[hunter63]

It should be note to all of those the monitor this sort of exchange....that no serious advice was given, nor is this the proper forum for such discussions ....and the OP needs to look elsewhere for advice.

[randyt]

you may have a chance of getting out of dodge with UN troops on duty but if American troops are on duty, you better pack a big lunch.

[Dannincw]

So if you are looking for a real honest answer read below:

As a Veteran there is really only one thing I can tell you with regards to bugging out when already under M.L. (note: this mean already fully under Martial Law) - Simply put yes they can stop and search you without a warrant or just cause or need a reason other than the fact it is M.L. that is a simple fact. So if you intend to bug out, walk out do not drive out. Carry you b.o.b. on you, they will search you and your bag, if they ask where you are going, do not lie to the tell them you are getting the he!! outta dodge and if you know your destination tell them it. (mom in Kansas for instance...)
Do not lie to them, let them search you and your bag, carry your ID on you and they can and will let you go.

Reason I tell you not to drive out is simply a time issue as well as a suspicion issue, it takes longer to search your car for them at the blockades in the city streets. It's also less suspicious to them, versus someone packed to the gills in a car, ammo bug out bags etc... they would be more worried your hiding illegal items under all the stuff in your car and thus deliberately take longer and tear your things apart trying to find what most likely wouldn't be there. So simply put: walk out, not drive out.

They cannot stop you from leaving but anything they think you should not have will be taken from you just an fyi on that, they don't need a warrant to take things from your person either. This is the truth, make sure you are not breaking any laws while under M.L. they will arrest you and not bat and eye about it. So if there are rules under M.L. obey them, no knifes leave them at home, no weapons even with permit etc... leave them at home.

It's a big risk - better you bug out before hand.

[kyratshooter]

Sorry friend, I'm not leaving the car at home just to make the search process easier on the bad guys!

I going to fill that rig up with my gear and all the garbage left in the 70 gallon wheelie bin.

Let them sift through that!

[Wildthang]

So if Martial law was in affect, and basically monitoring all of the bad guy traffic on the roads and highways, why would you want to bug out in the first place? I would just load the guns and stay home. No getting stopped and searched, and if the bad guys attack, self defense is within the law! And I would hide all of my good stuff well ahead of the military arriving to pick up the bodies!
Yep officer this little Marlin .22 just tore their azzes up..........LOL, Oh the holes are big cuz I used hollow points!

[hunter63]

Not planning on bugging out......and let someone else scavenge my gear....unless it's on fire, flooded, or the house fell down.

[TXyakr]

This open to the public forum is not a place where members suggest ways to circumvent or violate the law if that is what you are asking for. If there is a law or laws that you disagree with there are proper civilized ways to address and change those.

What's with the personal attacks on people you suspect are from Texas? Folks from Boston decided that a small taxes on an unnecessary luxury item (tea from India) was worth starting a life and death war over. Most Texas are peace loving folk who welcome Hispanics in because they like cheap restaurant food, home construction, yard work etc. etc. Most of us still respect law and order but in civilized way not in a violent hateful way. Peace and happiness to all who honestly pursue it.

[natertot]

This open to the public forum is not a place where members suggest ways to circumvent or violate the law if that is what you are asking for. If there is a law or laws that you disagree with there are proper civilized ways to address and change those.

What's with the personal attacks on people you suspect are from Texas? Folks from Boston decided that a small taxes on an unnecessary luxury item (tea from India) was worth starting a life and death war over. Most Texas are peace loving folk who welcome Hispanics in because they like cheap restaurant food, home construction, yard work etc. etc. Most of us still respect law and order but in civilized way not in a violent hateful way. Peace and happiness to all who honestly pursue it.

This is a hypothetical situation in which the OP wanted to know about how to bug out during ML when bugging out may not be "allowed". During ML, there really is no law, no due process, and one may be facing concerns for their safety where leaving may be a better option even if the authoritarian gov't agencies don't want you to do it. During ML, there is no option for changing laws and petitioning for grievances. That is just wishful thinking.

There was no personal attacks on Texas. It was a Jade Helm reference and saying it was a personal attack on Texans is just the typical Texan delusion that all the other states are picking on it. An inferiority complex that seems to have stemmed from AK taking the "biggest state" title.

As far as the "folks from Boston", it had little to due with luxury tea from India but taxes in general. The tea import was a very costly shipment with little protection making it an easy target to send a message to the king regarding taxes which is why it was selected. I'm sure your history book covered it.

Thanks for explaining why Texas refuses to put up a wall on the border. BTW, most of us in the other states respect law and order in civilized methods which I am sure is a shocker. When/if the gov't declares ML then peace, law, order and civility are already out the door otherwise ML wouldn't have been instituted in the first place.

I recommend some reading on the Boston Tea Party and the events leading up to it, martial law, and illegal immigration. There could be some enlightenment found.

Now, back to the drawing board of surviving ML......just in case!

I agree that ML is like everything else where bugging in is a better option unless something dire changes. I plan to board up the house, load the guns and keep a low profile. My hope is that what ever initiated the ML will be done in less than 72hours and that any continuation of ML is just to deal with the after effects. I also live away from "key" areas in hope that ML won't really effect my home.

As with any other planning an prepping, one can only research and speculate and then prepare and plan accordingly while hoping if the day comes, we will come out on top.

[kyratshooter]

Have you not heard yet Nate. We gun owners have now been declared "Extremists".

Our ability to board up the house and load the guns might be the reason the ML was set in place.

[natertot]

I heard and thought about that Kyrat. Then I figured the way executive orders are thrown around, no actual reason is needed so it isn't my fault!

[druid]

This open to the public forum is not a place where members suggest ways to circumvent or violate the law if that is what you are asking for. If there is a law or laws that you disagree with there are proper civilized ways to address and change those.

What's with the personal attacks on people you suspect are from Texas? Folks from Boston decided that a small taxes on an unnecessary luxury item (tea from India) was worth starting a life and death war over. Most Texas are peace loving folk who welcome Hispanics in because they like cheap restaurant food, home construction, yard work etc. etc. Most of us still respect law and order but in civilized way not in a violent hateful way. Peace and happiness to all who honestly pursue it.

Well I submit that many People think declaring "Martial Law" is an illegal act on its own. I happen to be one of them.

From this link:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art2frag11_user.html

"Two theories of martial law are reflected in decisions of the Supreme Court. The first, which stems from the Petition of Right, 1628, provides that the common law knows no such thing as martial law; that is to say, martial law is not established by official authority of any sort, but arises from the nature of things, being the law of paramount necessity, leaving the civil courts to be the final judges of necessity. By the second theory, martial law can be validly and constitutionally established by supreme political authority in wartime. In the early years of the Supreme Court, the American judiciary embraced the latter theory as it held in Luther v. Borden196 that state declarations of martial law were conclusive and therefore not subject to judicial review. In this case, the Court found that the Rhode Island legislature had been within its rights in resorting to the rights and usages of war in combating insurrection in that State. The decision in the Prize Cases, while[p.457]not dealing directly with the subject of martial law, gave national scope to the same general principle in 1863."

The bolded part in that paragraph is my highlight.

The problem is in the interpretation.

Theory one:
I interpret that to mean Martial Law is not sanctioned at all and is subject to Judicial review to view its necessity. Meaning, the government should have to go to the Courts to see if they may even establish Martial Law.

Theory two:
Martial Law can be permitted under certain circumstances. But pay attention to the underlined part...

..."In war time." I'm no Constitutional Lawyer but I interpret that to mean Martial Law is legal ONLY in war time.

New Orleans under 30' of water is not wartime...yet they declared Martial Law and confiscated weapons from uninvolved citizens who were outside the affected area.

A riot in Furgeson MO after a perp is shot is not wartime.
A riot in Baltimore, MD after immoral and unethical officers killed another perp is not wartime.
Civil unrest? Absolutely....but not war by any definition of the word.

The city-wide lock down of almost 650,000 People after what happened at the Boston Marathon - to find a pair of actors...is not wartime. Horrendous as it was and the devices used, as dangerous as they were - is still not wartime.


These 4 incidents do not fall under either of the above mentioned theories....yet they were done and the People [wrongfully] listened.

In fact, to legally declare war on something, you must follow ARTICLE I, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 11 of the Constitution. Since Congress is the only authority with the legal stance to declare War on anything, Martial Law should never get imposed because they take 6 months to decide something.

That said, I'd think we'd have some warning prior. No, we probably won't get it from the established and corporation/government controlled media but we will know because we spend too much time on the internet. now if they shut the internet down like they threatened to do several months ago.........grab your crap and go. I.N.C.H. bags should already be packed [I'm Never Coming Home bag].

[natertot]

Druid, I haven't looked that deep into ML history. Tha n ks for the background and context.

Regardless of all that, I don't see it legal for the govt to dictate people that are doing legal activities. If stuff sucks and think moving on is a better option, the govt should let me go. Unfortunately, history has not shown it to work out that way.

[druid]

Druid, I haven't looked that deep into ML history. Tha n ks for the background and context.

Regardless of all that, I don't see it legal for the govt to dictate people that are doing legal activities. If stuff sucks and think moving on is a better option, the govt should let me go. Unfortunately, history has not shown it to work out that way.

Yer welcome. One thing I've pointed out to every new rookie we get from the Academy.....our Sworn Oath. I ask them: When we repeat back our Oath at our swearing in ceremony, what is the first thing on the list?

I, __name__, do solemnly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of these United States; and to..................

One has to understand the Constitution in order to uphold and defend it. That means paying attention to the details within it. The Supreme Court has ruled that every single word in the Constitution carries equal weight to every other single word; one reason given was because there are no erroneous or otherwise useless words contained in it. That also means that each word, having equal weight to another, can not detract from any other. Another reason given was that the entire Document was written with extreme care and dedicated purpose. That means it is not to be taken lightly.

I don't see it legal for the government to dictate [as much as they do] to people either...though I also believe that Rule of Law must prevail. I believe in the limited powers of the Federal government as dictated by the Constitution in its entirety...but for several [dozen?] decades, politicians have been trampling the Rights of the People and they [we/I] are getting tired of it. It's to the point now that entities within the Federal government are trying to 'condition' the People into thinking that those who feel as we do are somehow "extremists" or even terrorists. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are Patriots to our Nation...not slaves who pander to career politicians who risk losing their power.

[Seniorman]

DRUID- " ... One has to understand the Constitution in order to uphold and defend it. That means paying attention to the details within it."

Aye, and there's the rub.

Very, very few peace officers and military members have ever read so much as one word of the U.S. Constitution. I also doubt that very, very few schools in the U.S. teach anything about the U.S. Constitution other than on a cursory level, so mainly, the People are as ignorant as peace officers and military members. Therefore, by and large, most law enforcers and most military not only don't know our Rights, they obey their "leaders" blindly without regard to whether or not they are violating the Constitution.

Of course, there are a few, comparatively, people who have studied the Constitution (some lawyers, certain scholars, a few interested laymen, etc.) , but considering the population today in the U.S., 330,000,000 +/-, knowledge of the Constitution is rare.

Whether or not Martial Law when declared is "constitutional," it is meaningless to the Imperial Declarer and his enforcers. Submit or suffer the consequences.

S.M.

[TXyakr]

In the specific case where New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declared martial law in the city it really did not matter that this was not constitutional he had the police and other military to back him up so it only made sense to obey and not get arrested or shot. However, most folks who knew they were in low areas and had the means, got the heck out of there long before Hurricane Katrina hit. This was a case where staying put was not a good idea. I never did read up about if he got heat for violating people's rights but that was only one of many problems with that whole mess. His political career did not go well for him after that as I recall. Some of the media make him out to be a hero and the federal government as the evil villains but they always over simplify complex issues for a short attention span audience that does not like to read.

On people fighting for freedom and unfair taxes: More Hispanics than Anglos died fighting in an attempt to expel Santa Anna from what is now Texas for imposing a heavy tax on them. And S.A. never even protected them from the Apaches/Natives like the British did from threats in the French and Indian War etc. Then King George attempted to impose an additional small tax on tea. So from a Texas viewpoint those folks from Boston seemed rather delicate and overly sensitive compared to the hard fighting Hispanics of Texas and New Mexico who have lived here since the 1600's. (First explored by the Spanish in 1519.)

If only the US school system still taught critical thinking... well a few private schools do, thanks to my parents I went to one of those.

[druid]

Aye, and there's the rub.

Very, very few peace officers and military members have ever read so much as one word of the U.S. Constitution. I also doubt that very, very few schools in the U.S. teach anything about the U.S. Constitution other than on a cursory level, so mainly, the People are as ignorant as peace officers and military members. Therefore, by and large, most law enforcers and most military not only don't know our Rights, they obey their "leaders" blindly without regard to whether or not they are violating the Constitution.

Of course, there are a few, comparatively, people who have studied the Constitution (some lawyers, certain scholars, a few interested laymen, etc.) , but considering the population today in the U.S., 330,000,000 +/-, knowledge of the Constitution is rare.

Whether or not Martial Law when declared is "constitutional," it is meaningless to the Imperial Declarer and his enforcers. Submit or suffer the consequences.

S.M.

Agreed on all points. My oldest daughter [27] had The Constitution in American Cultures in HS but my other 2 [19 and 16] have not. The 16 yr old has to take it as an "elective"...which IMO is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.

I understand why though - if the schools stop teaching The Constitution then the adolescents, growing into voting adults, won't know as much as they should and that skews their thoughts and ideology. It's a tactical move on the Government's part - and it's working............sort of.

I have been [informally] watching societal trends and over the past 20/25 years. In the past 5-6 years, it seems to me that The People are beginning to 'wake up' to the Government BS. Firearms sales, according to some, have quadrupled under Obummer's reign. Locally, we know they have almost doubled. The issuance of CCW's in my State have tripled. There's a reason for it....and it's NOT because crime rates are rising [at least, locally it isn't]. The People now realize it and now the Gov is running scared.

As to keep on topic.......

Bugging out will require a few things and some planning....

* A vehicle that is less susceptible to electronic pulse because yes....we have devices that can shut down your vehicle. Use carbon fiber plates or sheets of rubber to cover the entire undercarriage of the vehicle. [Leave NO exposed metal that connects to anything in the electrical system.]
* A vehicle that can withstand tire damage [think run-flat tires on steroids].
* A vehicle that cannot be shut down by On-Star.
* A 4WD vehicle that is snorkeled might be a good idea.
* Vehicle CB radio with whip antennae.
* Brush bars and off road lights. A good idea would be a 4-light system that uses two toggle switches. One toggle operates 2 white flood lights, the other toggle operates red lens flood lights [preserves night vision]. Use covers until they are needed.
* One oversized wool blanket per person.
* Extra "immediate fix" parts - radiator hoses [upper and lower], fan, alternator, power steering [or serpentine] belts, one set of spark plugs and wires, distributor cap, rotor and point cleaning tool, front and back brake pads [or shoes], extra fluids [antifreeze, oil, ATF, PS and brake fluids, etc], and a couple of expansion-type freeze out plugs.
* Extra fuel in an approved container.
* US Road Atlas, State specific road maps and at least one good compass.
* 3 days of food and water. The rule of thumb on water is one gallon per person, per day. That's two quarts to drink and 2 quarts for food prep and sanitation. Carry more if you plan on exerting yourself or prepare 'hard to digest' types of foods.
* Respirators with face shields. "Gas masks" sport a preconceived notion that you are a "doomsday prepper".....respirators with face shields are easily explained away as "tools."
* Common hand and automotive tools.
* Water purification.
* Bag with your personal gear.
* Plate carrier with or without attached pouches [Bugger's choice].
* Primary, secondary and edged weapons, appropriate ammo and magazines/clips [again, Bugger's choice].
* Know what your destination is going to be. Have an alternate location in case that one is a no-go.

Have a planned route from where you are, to where you are going. Have 2 back-up routes to the same destination. One of those should be the most rural method possible....such as tractor lanes on the edges of farmland, shallow/dried up creek beds, abandoned RR tracks, etc. If you have family that must meet you from another location, predetermine 3 spots you are all familiar with, are out of the way and number them. If you get a call from "honey," Have them grab their bag and meet you at "location one" [or "two" or "three"].

There's tons more anyone can add on their own, those are simply things I think about the most.

[hunter63]

...............
As to keep on topic.......

Bugging out will require a few things and some planning....

* A vehicle that is less susceptible to electronic pulse because yes....we have devices that can shut down your vehicle. Use carbon fiber plates or sheets of rubber to cover the entire undercarriage of the vehicle. [Leave NO exposed metal that connects to anything in the electrical system.]
* A vehicle that can withstand tire damage [think run-flat tires on steroids].
* A vehicle that cannot be shut down by On-Star.
* A 4WD vehicle that is snorkeled might be a good idea.
* Vehicle CB radio with whip antennae.
* Brush bars and off road lights. A good idea would be a 4-light system that uses two toggle switches. One toggle operates 2 white flood lights, the other toggle operates red lens flood lights [preserves night vision]. Use covers until they are needed.
* One oversized wool blanket per person.
* Extra "immediate fix" parts - radiator hoses [upper and lower], fan, alternator, power steering [or serpentine] belts, one set of spark plugs and wires, distributor cap, rotor and point cleaning tool, front and back brake pads [or shoes], extra fluids [antifreeze, oil, ATF, PS and brake fluids, etc], and a couple of expansion-type freeze out plugs.
* Extra fuel in an approved container.
* US Road Atlas, State specific road maps and at least one good compass.
* 3 days of food and water. The rule of thumb on water is one gallon per person, per day. That's two quarts to drink and 2 quarts for food prep and sanitation. Carry more if you plan on exerting yourself or prepare 'hard to digest' types of foods.
* Respirators with face shields. "Gas masks" sport a preconceived notion that you are a "doomsday prepper".....respirators with face shields are easily explained away as "tools."
* Common hand and automotive tools.
* Water purification.
* Bag with your personal gear.
* Plate carrier with or without attached pouches [Bugger's choice].
* Primary, secondary and edged weapons, appropriate ammo and magazines/clips [again, Bugger's choice].
* Know what your destination is going to be. Have an alternate location in case that one is a no-go.

Have a planned route from where you are, to where you are going. Have 2 back-up routes to the same destination. One of those should be the most rural method possible....such as tractor lanes on the edges of farmland, shallow/dried up creek beds, abandoned RR tracks, etc. If you have family that must meet you from another location, predetermine 3 spots you are all familiar with, are out of the way and number them. If you get a call from "honey," Have them grab their bag and meet you at "location one" [or "two" or "three"].

There's tons more anyone can add on their own, those are simply things I think about the most.

Mostly agree....
Just want to add....make a few trial runs....you will be amazed how fast your plans get screwed up

We have a BOL (or vaction place, homestead, retirement home, hunting cabin...whet ever you want to call it.
One gas/fuel tank away...have option of gas motor or diesel ....always full of fuel....way of life.

Have done the March Bug out , twice....using all stashed preps and pre-packed supplies, and always carried gear.
Decision to go to one the road 45 min...fastest time....Longest stretch 3 weeks.....week one piece of cake, week two, getting to be PITA, week three....needed (wanted resupply).

Note this took place at the start of a 3 month prescription med cycle...would be a real beeatch if it was at the end....

Practice, but expect the un-expected.

[Wise Old Owl]

First get your self an ambulance,...... out fit it with multi fuel capability, with on board gen set, rack it out, survival gear, water tank, extra fuel.
Mark truck up as "Biohazard Quarantine transport unit".......get biohazard suits helmets, respirators, go where ever you want.
$ 100,000 bucks should be a good start.


Repair parts are 3x exspensive.....

[hunter63]

Repair parts are 3x exspensive.....

Life of death....so what?....LOL

[Wise Old Owl]

Agreed on all points. My oldest daughter [27] had The Constitution in American Cultures in HS but my other 2 [19 and 16] have not. The 16 yr old has to take it as an "elective"...which IMO is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.

I understand why though - if the schools stop teaching The Constitution then the adolescents, growing into voting adults, won't know as much as they should and that skews their thoughts and ideology. It's a tactical move on the Government's part - and it's working............sort of.

I have been watching societal trends and over the past 20/25 years. In the past 5-6 years, it seems to me that The People are beginning to 'wake up' to the Government BS. Firearms sales, according to some, have quadrupled under Obummer's reign. Locally, we know they have almost doubled. The issuance of CCW's in my State have tripled. There's a reason for it....and it's NOT because crime rates are rising [at least, locally it isn't]. The People now realize it and now the Gov is running scared.

As to keep on topic.......

Bugging out will require a few things and some planning....

* A vehicle that is less susceptible to electronic pulse because yes....we have devices that can shut down your vehicle. Use carbon fiber plates or sheets of rubber to cover the entire undercarriage of the vehicle. [Leave NO exposed metal that connects to anything in the electrical system.]

[I]Never heard about this ... can you cite a source.. this eliminates all vehicles in the last 25 years. When a BMW has more than 25 microprocessors today... there isn't a chance in hell of it surviving. The BMW Diesels from 15 years ago,,, will work.

* A vehicle that can withstand tire damage [think run-flat tires on steroids].
* A vehicle that cannot be shut down by On-Star.
* A 4WD vehicle that is snorkeled might be a good idea.
* Vehicle CB radio with whip antennae.
* Brush bars and off road lights. A good idea would be a 4-light system that uses two toggle switches. One toggle operates 2 white flood lights, the other toggle operates red lens flood lights [preserves night vision]. Use covers until they are needed.
* One oversized wool blanket per person.

(Old School) - Dridown or Dupont Microfiber

* Extra "immediate fix" parts - radiator hoses [upper and lower], fan, alternator, power steering [or serpentine] belts, one set of spark plugs and wires, distributor cap, rotor and point cleaning tool, front and back brake pads [or shoes], extra fluids [antifreeze, oil, ATF, PS and brake fluids, etc], and a couple of expansion-type freeze out plugs.
* Extra fuel in an approved container.

* US Road Atlas, State specific road maps and at least one good compass.
* 3 days of food and water. The rule of thumb on water is one gallon per person, per day. That's two quarts to drink and 2 quarts for food prep and sanitation. Carry more if you plan on exerting yourself or prepare 'hard to digest' types of foods.
* Respirators with face shields. "Gas masks" sport a preconceived notion that you are a "doomsday prepper".....respirators with face shields are easily explained away as "tools."

Good to Know
* Common hand and automotive tools.
* Water purification.
* Bag with your personal gear.
* Plate carrier with or without attached pouches [Bugger's choice].
* Primary, secondary and edged weapons, appropriate ammo and magazines/clips [again, Bugger's choice].
* Know what your destination is going to be. Have an alternate location in case that one is a no-go.

Have a planned route from where you are, to where you are going. Have 2 back-up routes to the same destination. One of those should be the most rural method possible....such as tractor lanes on the edges of farmland, shallow/dried up creek beds, abandoned RR tracks, etc. If you have family that must meet you from another location, predetermine 3 spots you are all familiar with, are out of the way and number them. If you get a call from "honey," Have them grab their bag and meet you at "location one" [or "two" or "three"].

There's tons more anyone can add on their own, those are simply things I think about the most.


Great post.

[druid]

Great post.

Thanks. As to the question of citing a source, I cannot. Not because it's "National Security" or anything but departmental policy. I absolutely wish I could cite the 200+ page manual and Use of Force policy to you but I can't.

As to your comment of "that eliminates every car made in the past 25 years" - didn't you ever wonder why there was a huge National push to get rid of all the old vehicles?

What I can do is point you in the right direction. Internet information is free, remember? :wink:

I may or may not be referring to any one of these items listed. There are more than can be researched but I can tell you with 100% certainty, that these devices are in play. It's up to the jurisdiction if they choose to employ such devices.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029475-200-police-could-use-radio-waves-to-bring-cars-to-a-halt/

http://govtslaves.info/police-disable-car-via-emp-strike/

https://defensesystems.com/blogs/cyber-report/2012/12/emp-weapon.aspx

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/Pursuit-Management-Technology/articles/6755618-Vehicle-mounted-device-disables-car-electronics-at-50-meters/

and just to make it interesting, I found this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/04/17/aa.bills.shut.engine.down/

and even more scary, this on YT:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs

If you think these two jerk-offs can figure this stuff out, what makes you think the government/military and police departments don't [b]already have access to the same knowledge and technology?

[druid]

and this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs

Add to that, the ever increasing drive to clone the US into / or adopt EU practices...whether you believe the Agenda 21 / globalist / Illuminati / etc / stories or not......

https://www.rt.com/news/remote-car-disable-eu-413/


Point is, the military absolutely has access to this technology and local government have [perhaps limited or not-so limited in some cases] access to this technology. Many are used as 'testing grounds' to iron out bugs in the systems. They use departments/street/real time deployment data to do those things the 'book smart, street stupid' techno lab geek hasn't accounted for. How [i]we will use it differs greatly than how they use it in a lab or testing facility.

Rumblings through the ranks at LE Conventions are that these companies often speak to police chiefs, promising "free" units in trade for data during that 'testing' period.

Vehicles with computers are particularly susceptible, plain and simple. Non-computer based vehicles require 'shorting out' the electrical systems, tire damage or extreme measures [PiT maneuvers] to bring it to a halt.

Think of "road spikes" that don't deflate the tires but use TASER technology to disrupt the electronics....scary huh?....yep......but not so far fetched anymore.

Now...in a case of ML, the military will generally 'absorb' police units, simply to placate the officers on the department. Remember, our training is not all that different than there's. It makes more sense to "keep your friends close, enemies closer" because if anyone is going to provide military forces a "real problem," it's going to be pissed-off, properly trained police officers thrown into the 'civilian mix' - feeling betrayed and as 'throw aways' when that time comes.

[bs92916]

Our goverment organized crime

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[Rick]

What's really sad in this thread is the conclusion that LEO and military are illiterate miscreants that don't know how to do their job. That school systems are in this universal conspiracy with the "government" (personally, I'm suspicious of my postman. He's government, right?) to dumb down America.

Many LEO and most military are college educated at some level and quite capable of reading. 89% of military officers hold at least a bachelor's degree and 93% of all enlisted personnel hold a high school diploma and some college completed, according to one report by militaryhomefront.dod.mil. Compare that to any of our previous military. As for schools, if you want the Constitution taught in your area schools may I suggest you petition your local school board and vote to increase taxes so they have more money with which to expand curriculum.

[druid]

I think you are overreacting and coming up with your own misguided conclusion.

No one said that LEO or military or illiterate miscreants [that I have read]. I know I said [or eluded to] that they simply [and often blindly] follow orders. There are such things in both occupations called "Illegal Orders" and I've witnessed those illegal orders being carried out. Some in person and much on video. Others have too. Others still, have pasted YouTube with it. Let's not forget the largest military brass migration ever is under Obama....fired or forced to retire. Why? Because they refuse to shoot Americans under his reign? Because they spoke out against the tyranny of this Administration? We've heard [or read] the "rumors" spread by vetted veterans from various source media outlets....but hey, only 'rumors' right?

And petitioning the school district to do the job it's supposed to is ludicrous. Their job is to teach math, science, English, American and World History.....not engage in social experimentation, be surrogate parents or shade-tree politicians. When they stop wasting money on the crap that doesn't matter, there will be plenty of monetary resources to pull from.....like....stop ordering school books that no one uses because they aren't issued, for one.

I had a female professor in college who on the first day of class, told the female students that "if and when they become pregnant, they should drink a beer every day. the vitamins and minerals in the hops are good for the baby." Never mind the alcohol content in that drink is equally detrimental [not to mention, addictive]. She got pissed off at me when I chimed it, "....or just take the prenatal vitamins your family doctor should order for them?" She glared at me and said, "You aren't a woman or a doctor...you wouldn't know.' I responded, "No...I'm a father and a pragmatist...so yes I would." Needless to say, that was a tough semester.....

[natertot]

Agree with you druid. That is funny about your professor. I would have asked her if her mother drank during pregnancy because signs of it were showing!

[druid]

Agree with you druid. That is funny about your professor. I would have asked her if her mother drank during pregnancy because signs of it were showing!

lol.

The thing about conspiracy theories is that each "thing" on its own is just that...a theory. Alone, it means little to the People.

But it takes a healthy dose of logic and an even bigger leap of faith to actually connect A to B to C.

and that's why we are here, isn't it?

[Rick]

Misguided? When a thread is nothing but conspiracy theories and what if's without any level of substance it's not overreacting.

Had you considered that a war on two fronts wound down as a cause of the military draw down? I'm not a fan of Obama but there is an occasional problem that can be rationalized.


And petitioning the school district to do the job it's supposed to is ludicrous.

Seriously? Ludicrous? School boards serve at our leisure. If you are not happy with the job they are doing vote them out. If you are still not happy run for the office.

Anyone can quote an anecdotal story. That does not make it representative of the whole.

And no, conspiracy theories isn't why we are here. To be a conspiracy theorist is to give up responsibility for conditions and blame someone else. It's much easier to do that actually work for change at any level. The "government", whoever that is supposed to be, is nothing more than people; 2.7 million to be precise. Are all of them involved in this "conspiracy"? If not, who then do we point the finger at? The FHA? The Agricultural Research Service? Taxpayer Advocacy Panel? They are all part of the "government". Perhaps just the President? That office has been blamed for every problem known to man since the first holder took oath. To be sure some were true, most were not. I don't engage my time in "conspiracies". I prefer to take responsibility and work for honest change at every level I can impact. I don't consider that misguided either.

[natertot]

Rick, I think what Druid is trying to say is that we shouldn't have to petition schools, or any other government body/entity, to do what it is already supposed to be doing. It is not like this is a new arts program or anything. This is the Constitution, the foundation of our country, and the fact that nothing (or very little) is taught is absurd. Speaking of all this, my daughter did not have school last Monday in observance of Columbus Day. Despite this day being important enough to not have school, not one single thing was mentioned about who Columbus was, what he did, or why he has his own holiday was mentioned in my daughter's class! I took the time to fill her in a little, but why in the heck aren't schools covering this? BTW, they covered Martin Luther King Jr day fairly well. Same with Black history month and even Cinco de Mayo was touched upon. But to petition to tell the schools to do the job they are already supposed to be doing and not think there are NO political motivations behind any of it is absurd.

[Rick]

I understand precisely what he is saying. If it's not being taught then change it. If no ones cares to take them to task then no one should complain about what is being taught. Political motivations and conspiracies are miles apart. Political motivations are what drive politicians.

Did you question your child's school administrator and/or the school board? (rhetorical question)

[natertot]

Political motivations and conspiracies are miles apart? I don't think so.

I have a meeting with the teacher this week and plan on bringing it up.

[druid]

I understand precisely what he is saying. If it's not being taught then change it. If no ones cares to take them to task then no one should complain about what is being taught. Political motivations and conspiracies are miles apart. Political motivations are what drive politicians.

Did you question your child's school administrator and/or the school board? (rhetorical question)

I've had my "meeting" with the chair of the school board "rescheduled" 4 times because he's "busy." Well then I went to the public school board meeting. When I brought up the fact that his secretary has been postponing our meeting at his behest because he doesn't want to have to deal with answering my questions...the crowd woke up a bit. I put him on the spot right there and asked those very pointed questions. Wanna take a guess at his Liberal answer? "I'll review it and take it under advisement." You and I both know what that means don't we?

But I'm not giving up...he's going to answer me whether he likes it or not. Publicly, I'll keep putting him on the spot. Eventually he'll have to visit the questions and answer them.


Political motivations and conspiracies are miles apart? I don't think so.

I have a meeting with the teacher this week and plan on bringing it up.

completely agreed. They are NOT miles apart, they are intertwined like grape vines.

And the truth plainly spoken is this...anyone and everyone has the absolute Right to disagree with what others say. One should never take into consideration, a person's occupation that provides details of 'things to [that may] come" and isn't common or published knowledge. Never should a person take for granted that there are those "in the know" who have to get trained on the myriad of protocols devised by the Federal Government. I'm fairly sure my department was versed in what's to happen if/when __this__ happens, who we will report to, which protocol gets implemented, etc. etc

But then again, I guess one doesn't have to take the word of People on the Internet at all. Perhaps they'd just rather read it and find the information themselves? Or...let someone else do the leg work [?] :

All of this, being common and public knowledge:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/house-bill/5122

http://armedservices.house.gov/index.cfm/ndaa-home?p=ndaa

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-112publ81/pdf/PLAW-112publ81.pdf

The NDAA of '06 [H.R. 5122] by Bush, later expanded upon by Obama in '12 [to further strengthen the Executive offices ability to declare Martial Law, and added provisions that would allow military troops to detain U.S. citizens without a trial]. President Obama Formed the National Police Task Force; Uses Social unrest as Justification. In March of 2015, the Obama administration put together a task force that outlined rules for our nation’s police. In his Task Force on 21st century policing report, he outlined the formation of a National Policing Practices and Accountability Division within the federal government. The report went on to describe how the Department of Homeland Security could be used to “ensure that community policing tactics in state, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies are incorporated into their role in homeland security.”
Increasing number of Joint Police/Military Drills are using American Citizens as Theoretical Threats. Back in 2012, an army report about the future use of the military as a police force within the United States looked at theoretical situations where the U.S. Army could be used against Tea Party “insurrectionists” who take over U.S. cities. During that same time period, the Department of Homeland Security released a report titled, “Hot Spots of Terrorism and Other Crimes in the United States,” where they outlined who the federal government sees as the largest terrorist threat in the country – that threat was U.S. citizens with extreme “right-wing” views.

The Patriot Act......the most UNpatriotic piece of legislation I've ever heard of....http://www.justice.gov/archive/ll/highlights.htm

A 1 million square foot, $1.5 BILLION, "store domestic spying information" facility in Utah https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/ ...

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/6/4403886/nsa-fbi-verizon-phone-customer-surveillance-program

MRAPs going to civilian police departments:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/not-your-typical-police-car-military-vehicles-put-to-new-use-back-in-the-us/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/more-defense-surplus-equipment-heading-to-local-police-departments-aclu-concerned/2013/11/24/44051418-555a-11e3-ba82-16ed03681809_story.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/not-your-typical-police-car-military-vehicles-put-to-new-use-back-in-the-us/

http://patch.com/connecticut/montville-ct/mrap-vehicles-in-connecticut-civilian-police-service

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/15/local-law-enforcement-agencies-surplus-military-equipment/10286485/

.....and from our good buddy Sheriff Doug Cox from [B]Indiana:
https://www.rt.com/usa/164816-american-police-militarization-war/

Indiana?!?! That sheriff makes it sound like downtown Fallujah ....and is going to "Protect and Serve" the CRAP out of his Constituents...

Drones being used over US soil: http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/19/4445362/fbi-admits-it-uses-surveillance-drones-over-us-soil

Anyone here that's recently former military want to explain exactly what these drones are capable of? I know, you know; care to share with the nay-sayers?

Need I say more? Coincidence? Anecdotal? Theoretical?
None of the above.

The use of the words "Martial Law" are not likely to be used. Replace "Martial Law" with the term "State of Emergency." Essentially they are the same thing. Remember, a polished turd is still a turd.

...and there was nothing "anecdotal" about [testing the waters?] declaring Martial Law...I'm sorry..."States of Emergency"....during Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy, the Boston Marathon, Newton [CT] to name only a few....

But hey, since I like coffee and not Kool-Aid.....I guess it's just a "theory" ::eyeroll::

[Rick]

Your guys are probably right. Sorry I said anything.

[druid]

Rick, you have nothing to be sorry about. We are all [I'd like to think] adults here with different opinions, formed by what information we can individually gather. We try to 'make sense' of that information and sometimes 'stuff' is just "too hard to believe."

Peace.

[natertot]

I think often times we have this mentality that it has never happened here so it will never happen at all. Indoctrination via public education? Nah, Nazi's did that so we learned our lesson and it can't happen here! Gun bans followed by an increase in crime? Nah, that happened in the UK and Aussie, so that can't happen here! A government dictator completely controlling our lives? Nah, that has occurred so many times in history, that will never happen here!

The thing is, that is what every other country that has placed itself into turmoil has thought. If we don't rise up at the suspicions (which I believe are tests to see how far the envelope can be pushed) then we will be like the proverbial frog in the water while the heat slowly rises.

[jdbushcraft]

What I can do is point you in the right direction. Internet information is free, remember? :wink:
?

And a lot is worth exactly what you paid for it.

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