Promise and Peril of Technology

[Faiaoga]

"Is Google Making Students Stupid?" is the title of an interesting article by Nick Romeo in The Atlantic Monthly (Sept. 30, 2014). While most of the article is relevant to classrooms, he does mention dependence upon GPS devices and mentions how older Eskimos navigate compared to the navigation techniques of the younger generation. The topic is not new, but the information and ideas may be of interest to some.

Certainly, as a person who grew up with paper maps and printed dictionaries, I find it a little difficult to understand people who cannot navigate or look up words without the use of an electronic device. Of course, I also cannot understand how Micronesian navigators could learn to sail thousands of miles through open ocean with knowledge gained from stick charts - stick charts that are now purchased as replicas from tourist souvenir shops. Interesting article about technology and how it can change our thinking and culture. :clover:
www.theatlantic.com see section on "Education"

[hunter63]

I agree that the though of all the batteries going dead.....and stopping the world, has crossed my mind more than once.......

But I had to Google "stick charts".....OMG I'm one of "Them"..........

[Faiaoga]

The stick charts are an important part of Micronesian culture. When I taught on Majuro, Marshall Islands (google THAT and then use a magnifying glass to find the Republic of the Marshall Islands on a world map) for a summer, I purchased several of the stick charts as souvenirs. They are commonly available in tourist shops and many Marshallese make them but I suspect that the knowledge of how to read them and to use them is lost to almost all Marshallese. It is interesting to note that perhaps the only way much traditional knowledge will be preserved is through books, films, photographs, tape recordings and other technology that is modern and Western. :clover:

[hunter63]

That is kinda ironic.....modern technology seems to be the only way to preserve the past.

Pretty interesting.

[WolfVanZandt]

This is going to sound sorta weird coming from me, but I honestly don't think that technology is the problem. In fact, if students wanted to really learn, I can't think of a better place than the Internet to do it and Google has some great tools for them. In fact, one of the few places on the Internet to find primary research without having to pay several academic search services, is Google Scholar.

I do think that typical humanity is ruined by their reliance on technology, but they're the ones giving up their survival skills; technology isn't holding a gun to their heads or brainwashing them.

All life styles have their catches. One of ours is the ease with which we can give up our survival intuitions, our preference for persons over material goods, and reliance on each other while taking the easy paths. We should know the flaws in our lifestyles and avoid them. And what I'm saying is that the fault is our own corporate fault.

[Rick]

Times change. There was a time when parents would never have thought of sending a kid to school. What for? They were needed to tend livestock and crops. They would be farmers just like their parents and their parents parents. As time marched on parents decided that it might not be bad to have kids smarter than they were but at only certain times of the year. No school for planting or harvesting. Then we developed daylight savings time so kids would still have daylight to get some schooling and some farm chores done. Today we think school all year might not be a bad thing and some places are trying it. I was taught how to use a slide rule in drafting class. There's an antique for you. How many could use a slide rule today? It's a simple formula really. Embrace the new but remember the past. That's why we are all here...using the computer to talk about old techniques.

[WolfVanZandt]

Now, slide rules are hundreds of bucks - how's that for a turn around. But there's an advantage to the old slide rule. It can go in the backpack and it doesn't need batteries or sunlight - and you can build one from scratch. One reason I look for old books is that the technology they represent is the technology that you can carry with you into a SHTF situation.

But you're right Rick. I'm glad we have what we have. My hobby is continuing education. I believe in peripatetic learning - which involves learning by doing, and the Internet is like a field-trip in a box. I'd love to have a Van de Graff as tall as I am but I can't. But Walter Lewin brings them into his class at MIT and his lectures are on the MIT Opencourseware website. So I can watch his hair stand up instead of zapping myself. My library, thanks to sites like Gutenberg and the Internet Archive, is bigger than any I've had before (heck, my reference library is as big as that in most public libraries). I can get research articles via Google Scholar. I'm about to embark on seeing if I can learn some foreign languages because I'm reading a book with a new slant that just might work. What could be better for learning besides actually being there - and the Internet helps me with that also. I can find the actual field trips I want to take there.

[Faiaoga]

Obviously, my reliance upon a spell check in the computer has damaged my proofreading. It should be Peril instead of Perfil. :blushing: I can be a good proofreader of another person's work but I often miss my own errors.

[Rick]

And presto chango through the science of modern technology it is.

[hunter63]

I kinda got a kick of the idea that written alphabet will hurt memory.....from the posted article:
>Quote
The phenomenon is not specific to modern technologies; the same concern appears in Plato’s Phaedrus, where a character in the dialogue worries about the effects of the phonetic alphabet: “This discovery … will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves.” Automating almost any task can rob us of an ability.< qoute

[kyratshooter]

I got my Masters degree just as desktop publishing had been sorted out but before the internet was fully operational. It was back in the days of the floppy disk.

What that means is that I did all my research using hard copy in someone's library and fed it into a desktop editing device that corrected my grammar and spelling.

The result was a year of revision on my thesis with the four readers correcting every sentence for at least one error in grammar or punctuation.

After the second reader tore my work asunder I realized he was correcting the first reader's required corrections, and the third corrected the second, and you can see how this was going. At the end of the revision process everyone had corrected each other to the point that not a single sentence was my original work.

By the end of the revisions I was required to disable the grammar correction feature of Word Perfect to meet the committee's revisions. The grammar, punctuation and sentence structure provided by 4 Phd graduate professors were unacceptable to the computer!

And I still say the computer was right the first time!

The most unusual thing involved with the entire process was that in the 300 page work, with complete revision of every sentence and paragraph, there was not one single correction of information content required, all corrections were involved with the language, not the content.

But, if it had not been for my ability to edit my thesis on the computer, rather than rewrite the entire document on each revision, I would probably have given up and never attained the degree after doing all the required coursework.

Working with the internet has advantages of easy access to information one would not normally have access too without traveling to the ends of the earth. I can today access materials that I could not reach 20 years ago when I was doing my research, so my topics had to deal with things I could access and many people not wealthy enough to travel wound up specializing in local topics rather than going world wide.

In turn, hard copy materials offer hidden treasures one can discover that are not going to reveal themselves in a closely worded google search. One might obtain a probate list on Google, but not the "will and testament" that accompanied it and gave valuable information on the subject's life, which one would find if using hard copy.

But Google does allow one to fact check personal information on famous people very quickly.

[Seniorman]

KYRATSHOOTER - " ... At the end of the revision process everyone had corrected each other to the point that not a single sentence was my original work. ..."

That sounds exactly like what happens in Hollywood to a writer's screenplay before it finally goes to film. :blink:

S.M.

[crashdive123]

One of the most valuable pieces of technology is the cell phone......while I am grocery shopping. While I really like my local grocery store, calling for clarification has saved me countless hours of re-visiting the aisles of that store when there is other work to be done.

[WolfVanZandt]

One problem with proofreading is that people tend to see things as they should be, not as they are. I always try to get someone else to proof my work. A spell/grammar check is great but often a word is not misspelled but it is misspelled in context (such as, their/they're/there).

[1stimestar]

I love maps and compasses. I do not care for GPSrs because I like to do it myself. I get a real sense of accomplishment from orienteering. But I LOVE Google Maps and Google Earth because I can go explore places that I'll never get to see in person.

[Tokwan]

Will never live without a compass and map too.....sometimes, the maps are muuch better than the GPS..sometimes....

[Rick]

While I really like my local grocery store, calling for clarification has saved me countless hours of re-visiting the aisles of that store when there is other work to be done.

And greatly helps to avoid "The Look" because you brought the wrong brand home!

[WolfVanZandt]

Y'know. There is a technological contrivance called........a shopping list?

Honestly, I like old technology. It's accessible in low technology situations. For instance, after everything collapses, the only transistors and ICs for a while will be the ones salvageable from old electronics.
ICs are going to be difficult to identify, and reuse. Transistors, not so much. Electrical technology such as motors, transformers, and generators will be easy.
A lot of modern medicines will be gone. Biologicals will still be available.
The Internet may go offline after a short while. Better hang onto your laptops and be particular about how you charge them up if you want to even have computers.
And so on........

[crashdive123]

Y'know. There is a technological contrivance called........a shopping list?


There is, and I don't head out without it. It however is sometimes written in a different language than that of the manufacturer, therefor "she who must be obeyed" is called to explain it to her humble servant.

[hunter63]

It's called "Messing with ya".....as in....

Get the low fat, no caffeine, low cal, no milk....milk.........It the one with the green cap.
(in milk cooler, red cap, pink cap, blue cap, yellow cap........) No green cap.

Phone call....
"Honey, there is no green cap milk".......
She, "Well there should be, did you look in the cooler (yeah like no ship, why would I look there?)....how about next to the yellow cap?...are you sure?....Well..... OK get the yellow cap, I GUESS I'll make do........"

Week later...."Dear, Honey, can you go to the store for meeee...."

"Yes Dear...."....as soon as I'm done pounding my head against this wall......"

Used to be.... you caught it when you screwed up and got home.....now you can get messed with during the event.......as well.
I love technology

[Rick]

And I never tell her, "there is no such and such". That would imply she is wrong. I'm not stupid. I just tell her, "I can't find that. What does it look like?" That implies that I'm an idiot that needs guidance. Eh, it has its rewards.

[WolfVanZandt]

Now, y'see. That's why I'm not married or similarly involved and that's why I hate cell phones.....grrrrrrr.

[LowKey]

Well if you guys are gonna call the missus about which thingy you are supposed to be buying, can you please get outta the middle of the aisle? Those of us who have the foresight to ask for a label torn off the box know exactly what we're looking for and would oblige not having to stand there in the aisle waiting for you.
:)

[Faiaoga]

I have just learned about a place in the USA where wireless technology is prohibited - no cell phones, internet, microwave oven and so on. Apparently, the town of Green Bank, West Virginia is in a zone where astronomers operating advanced radio telescopes do not want interference. I saw this on a videotape from the Atlantic Monthly web site.

Neat and cool and groovy. Perhaps someone more competent in the technology aspects can provide a link and more information. I am just passing on what little I know. I am intrigued by the idea that there is a place where people walk next door to contact their neighbors instead of calling on a cell phone. Who knows - they may even walk to the local library and read books.:clover:

Apparently, there is a National Radio Quiet Zone and Green Bank is in the middle of it. Sounds like a "believe it or not" story,

[hunter63]

I have just learned about a place in the USA where wireless technology is prohibited - no cell phones, internet, microwave oven and so on. Apparently, the town of Green Bank, West Virginia is in a zone where astronomers operating advanced radio telescopes do not want interference. I saw this on a videotape from the Atlantic Monthly web site.

Neat and cool and groovy. Perhaps someone more competent in the technology aspects can provide a link and more information. I am just passing on what little I know. I am intrigued by the idea that there is a place where people walk next door to contact their neighbors instead of calling on a cell phone. Who knows - they may even walk to the local library and read books.:clover:

Apparently, there is a National Radio Quiet Zone and Green Bank is in the middle of it. Sounds like a "believe it or not" story,

There was a program on this...I'm thinking it was on Mysteries at the Museum or one of those ...that did a whole segment on the place....There is even "radio wave police" that drive around a check
Diesel is preferred over gas vehicles as they produce less static?

Whole area is a radio telescope array.....like 13000 square miles.
https://science.nrao.edu/facilities/gbt/interference-protection/nrqz/

[Faiaoga]

Hunter63: thanks for he information. I had read about places where astronomers try to cut down on light pollution, but never about this particular problem. I wonder if there will ever be a National TV/TalK Radio Quiet Zone - or perhaps that is only a dream.:clover:

[crashdive123]

A "technology dead zone" so that a few might utilize some of the most advanced technology there is. Interesting contradiction.

As to the
National TV/TalK Radio Quiet Zone just don't turn it on.