What would YOU do?

[Backtothebush]

Ok... so.... this will not be another "I wanna squat and live off the land, where can I do that?" posts. I see all of those and have no interest in moving to Eddy, Florida... :tt2: haha
So... what I AM asking is.... What is your bugout plan?
Not WHERE would you go... but what would you do? You get home from work on a Tuesday night and turn on the news. It is bad... riots in the streets. Economy crumbled. S has definitely HTF. What do you do first? Whats your plan? Do you have everything you need? If not, what do you do about that? To be properly prepped for a SHTF scenario, the plan IS the plan. So what is yours?

[hunter63]

Ok... so.... this will not be another "I wanna squat and live off the land, where can I do that?" posts. I see all of those and have no interest in moving to Eddy, Florida... :tt2: haha
So... what I AM asking is.... What is your bugout plan?
Not WHERE would you go... but what would you do? You get home from work on a Tuesday night and turn on the news. It is bad... riots in the streets. Economy crumbled. S has definitely HTF. What do you do first? Whats your plan? Do you have everything you need? If not, what do you do about that? To be properly prepped for a SHTF scenario, the plan IS the plan. So what is yours?



Depends.......Your scenario is a very general one.
Are we talking local?....state, national, global?

"You get home from work'.....(means to me you still have a job, but won't if you don't show up)...."Turn on the news" (you still have power, someone is still broadcasting)...."It's bad riots in the streets"....(yeah that's everyday ..somewhere,..... so local.? close by?)...."Economy has crumbled"....(Do you have stock?...have preps?...a garden?....a stack of wood?....extra fuel, ammo and the rest of your stuff?)

So, what would I do first?........Maybe get me a brewski and see what is happening near by...if in next block, maybe turn out the lights, and bring up a can of ammo for the short term.

Where am I gonna go?...and would that be a option?....I do have a "Place"....4 hours away (less than one tank of fuel)... in a very rural area, stocked, and local networks in place.....But would it still be there and available, if I could get there....roads closed by looters, bridge out, weather?

I see what you are getting at, but you will need to narrow it down....Not enough info.

For, my self and family, we would hunker down....that could be at either place.

Can I get there?....Vehicles are kept full of fuel......Depends would have to weigh the options.

So flip the channel and make sure the GOOD bags are close to the door....grab another brewski....and see how the winds blow.

[Rick]

I don't prep for the end of the world economy collapse stuff. If it happens I'll set up a kool aid stand out front. Make a few bucks and off the competition in one swallow. What I mean is......

[kyratshooter]

Got any statistics on the last time a whole city was destroyed by riot? (Invasion by an SS Panzer division does not count)

Got any statistics on the last time rioting spread to the suburbs of a major city? I mean from house to house, not the shopping malls or business district.



I already live where you want to go. Nothing runs me out of this place other than a direct hit tornado or a chemical spill on the RR tracks 5 miles across country and I even checked the wind currents before I bought.

That was the plan. It is part of a long term plan that gives me peace of mind rather than protection from TEOTWAWKI.

Close enough to drive to the city if I really want too, but far enough that none of their problems are WALKING out here.

I can grow my veggies, raise my chickens and fish the lake any time I wish and no one thinks I am a "bit off" due to the entire area living the same way.

And this is Kentucky, the average riot would fizzle out due to extreme casualties before it got to my place.

And even if it did not fizzle I am part of a community here, not a lone individual hiding in a hollow tree with the Keebler elves.

That was the case even when I lived in the 'burbs.

[hunter63]

Backtothebush....Have you ever just grabbed your bag and took off?
Do you have a bag?
Where would you go?
What is your plan?
Seems this is a popular thing to think about, plan, and wait for?

We did the "Bug out to the Place" drill a couple of times, a couple of years ago.......The place being our cabin I mentioned.
Both times It took from "Decision" (Hey lets head out) to "Leaving".,....about 45 min.
Did a write up here back when.
Can't find it just now....so will do a thered on it again.

First week was a piece of cake, ...the second week we ran out of cake...and a bunch of other stuff....and yeah, some was more of a want than a need....two weeks was doable...then got dicey.

So unless you have a plan, and are prepared, taking off isn't to be taken lightly.....

[Backtothebush]

wow... why y'all getting so defensive... its a hypothetical... was trying to have a light-hearted discussion to try to get to know some folks on here... forget i even posted it... :thumbdown:

[hunter63]

No, not defensive.....just reality....Think about it

There are those that DO and the those that think it's a game.......Not a game ...no reset button.

[Seniorman]

Unless some foreign power started dropping a-tum bums on our major cities, I can not visualize entire cities "in chaos."

I have already lived in a very large city in which "the SHTF." Los Angeles.

I was in Los Angeles in 1965 for the Watts riots. I was there during the 1968 East Los Angeles riots, along with further serious "unrest." I was there during the 1992 L.A. South Central riots (aka "Rodney King" riots.) I was there for the 1971 L.A. Sylmar earthquake. I was there for the 1988 L.A. Whittier earthquake. I was there during the 1994 L.A. Northridge earthquake.

I have witnessed raging, holocaustical wildfires in the mountains and foothills surrounding Los Angeles.

I have never seen any kind of general panic in which the entire population of a large city was running around looting, killing, raping, etc. Just did not happen. Were there a few cases wherein some locals left their "areas" and fanned out into the general area committing crimes? Yep, a few, especially during the 1992 S.C. riots, but those incidents never really touched 98% of the rest of the city.

We were quite safe in our home, although we did have a couple of loaded guns around. Of course, we always had a couple of loaded guns around, so there was nothing extraordinary about that.

Therefore, if "something" happens, we'll just hunker down at home and watch the "doin's" from the comfort of a nice easy chair and a bottle of Scotch. :drink:

S.M.

[Backtothebush]

ok. so ill specify. Worst case scenario. Its global. Its local. Its a free for all. Clearly, for me at least, #1 is to get my gear, get my family, gather food and ammo and get the hell outta the city. so... im not posing this as a game. I HAVE a plan. I HAVE a BOB. I HAVE a BOV. I HAVE a BOP. I was curious as to what others would do.

[welderguy]

well its hard for me to answer this because Im not planning on bugging Because if it is as bad as you described and there is wide spread chaos and violence how safe would I be leaving my house putting myself into a vehicle loaded with items someone may want to steal. My plan is to stay put as long as I can or until the S has blew over. I am putting myself at a more serious risk by leaving than staying

[welderguy]

now a question for you , why would you want to put yoru family in potential danger by heading out into the streets to get to your BOL. Was there no prior warnings things would get this bad or did it just kick off all of a sudden, and if you drove home from work and didn't see any signs of what they are saying is happening on the news in your area you are better off staying put, you may have to drive thru one of the bad areas and why risk it.

[hunter63]

BOP?....Bug out place?
Yeah, I have one as well....
My plan is here or ...There.....either way I'm good...getting here might be a problem.

I'm here at the BOL as we speak, getting some up grades done and cutting grass.
It's located on a good sized river, ....as we have had a lot of rain and storms the last 3-4 days .

Place for crops/garden, plenty of non-power tools...axes, mauls saws, shovels, drills.....
Wood heat....need to get some more cut and split.

Defense assets deployed ....if needed...that's as far as that goes.
Located on 16 acres, planted in corn and soy beans right now....

This location has everything needed to carry on, ......all one has to do is show up......would be good to go any time of year for at least a couple of weeks.
Power is only really required for the water pump...have gen set for that.

BOV is a couple of 4X4's....and a high mileage car.
BOB bags are deployed here and the other set is located in the BOV. (always)....and there is a "camp gear stored in an out building in case of fire at the main "Place".....In sealed 55 gal drum

This is a way of life for us.......not just a scenario.

[welderguy]

Got any statistics on the last time a whole city was destroyed by riot? (Invasion by an SS Panzer division does not count)

Got any statistics on the last time rioting spread to the suburbs of a major city? I mean from house to house, not the shopping malls or business district.



I already live where you want to go. Nothing runs me out of this place other than a direct hit tornado or a chemical spill on the RR tracks 5 miles across country and I even checked the wind currents before I bought.

That was the plan. It is part of a long term plan that gives me peace of mind rather than protection from TEOTWAWKI.

Close enough to drive to the city if I really want too, but far enough that none of their problems are WALKING out here.

I can grow my veggies, raise my chickens and fish the lake any time I wish and no one thinks I am a "bit off" due to the entire area living the same way.

And this is Kentucky, the average riot would fizzle out due to extreme casualties before it got to my place.

And even if it did not fizzle I am part of a community here, not a lone individual hiding in a hollow tree with the Keebler elves.

That was the case even when I lived in the 'burbs.

So how is Ken doing.: by the way !! :innocent:

[hunter63]

ok. so ill specify. Worst case scenario. Its global. Its local. Its a free for all. ............Clearly, for me at least, #1 is to get my gear, get my family, gather food and ammo and get the hell outta the city ........... so... im not posing this as a game. I HAVE a plan. I HAVE a BOB. I HAVE a BOV. I HAVE a BOP. I was curious as to what others would do.

If your goal and plan is the GOOD...food/ammo/gear should be loaded already (3 days on board)..... or close enough to just load if necessary.

[Lamewolf]

I'll just do what I plan to do and keep my mouth shut - loose lips, sink ships !

[Rick]

No one is defensive. You are new so you need to understand that this very same question is posed about every other week. That's why you received some lighthearted and/or flippant responses. However you viewed them.

The best thing you can do is to determine which threats are most likely where you live. Rank them from most likely to least likely and prep accordingly. If you've table topped that plan, exercised it and are comfortable with it then good for you. You are ahead of most folks. Sadly, the majority just put some gear together with no real view of what their most common threats are, how they are going to mitigate them and have no realistic plan of what they are going to do if something really does happen.

[Backtothebush]

BOP - Bug Out Plan
If it was as I suggested, worst case scenario, and society was crumbling, I for one would not stay in the city. Too many people with far too little resources = death to many. This is why I would get my family out of this city. Id rather have to hunt, farm and forrage for supplies at my BOL than have to murder people for the meagre supplies they have that I need, or kill people in self defense protecting the few I have.
Yes, leaving my home would come with a level of risk. I accept that. That goes without saying. However, as the days pass and people start running out of food, it will not get better. Only worse. What do you do when a few months in you are out of food and water? Go get more? Where? Its all gone by that point. Get out of the city at that point? Sure! I hope you have good boots and a strong back cause the fuel is all gone.
Best bet while most people are still in shock and trying to figure out what to do (the un-prepared people that is), is to implement your plan.
Gather those close to you.
Buy, beg, borrow or steal all the supplies you can that are on route to get out of the city.
Just my two cents.

[welderguy]

BOP - Bug Out Plan
If it was as I suggested, worst case scenario, and society was crumbling, I for one would not stay in the city. Too many people with far too little resources = death to many. This is why I would get my family out of this city. Id rather have to hunt, farm and forrage for supplies at my BOL than have to murder people for the meagre supplies they have that I need, or kill people in self defense protecting the few I have.
Yes, leaving my home would come with a level of risk. I accept that. That goes without saying. However, as the days pass and people start running out of food, it will not get better. Only worse. What do you do when a few months in you are out of food and water? Go get more? Where? Its all gone by that point. Get out of the city at that point? Sure! I hope you have good boots and a strong back cause the fuel is all gone.
Best bet while most people are still in shock and trying to figure out what to do (the un-prepared people that is), is to implement your plan.
Gather those close to you.
Buy, beg, borrow or steal all the supplies you can that are on route to get out of the city.
Just my two cents.
Being prepared is Key, If you have to beg borrow or steal supplies later its time to start stocking up. I can live a year without going to the store. if i ever do have to bug out all im taking is enough supplies to go 13 miles to the meet up point, resupply there with the group and head out 62 miles to the BOL and its stocked and ready to go. so bug out for me is as simple as grab BOB, gun and son and were gone.

[Seniorman]

BACKTOTHEBUSH - "... Buy, beg, borrow or steal all the supplies you can that are on route to get out of the city."

I would submit that if stealing is part of your plan, you seriously reconsider it.

Perhaps in Canada, no one would mind you stealing their supplies and goods, or even resist, but I assure you that down here in the "lower 48," you'd not last long enough to get word to God.

Stealing isn't a wise way to insure long term -- or even short term -- survival. There are many, many very well armed people who just can't abide a thief. :w00t:

Just my thoughts on the matter.

S.M.

[hunter63]

I would appear that many preconceived ideas are being laid down.....of which I see no actual factual past references.....
You might want to reconsider some of them.....Shoot and loot, is not a valid course of action.

Good luck on your plan.....

[welderguy]

In most of Texas its not shoot and loot its loot and get shot. as a matter of fact if it is a full blown shtf collapse of society it is a good chance that if I see you thru my scope coming over my fence the buzzards will have a meal. because if your stupid enough to come across a fence that has a sign that states you will be shot if you trespass then oh well.

[Highhawk1948]

Stay on my property and defend it from all comers. Honey, load this one for me. I have a water source, meat on the hoof, etc. and my fences would slow them down.

[Rick]

The country you choose to run to will include those that probably won't want you there to compete for limited supplies. Assuming you can actually survive long enough to get there. Everyone seems to think if some giant calamity were to happen they would be survivors. If it were that big and that bad most likely we'd be called casualties. The problem with these make believe scenarios is there is no reality. It's what ever your opinion happens to be and most often folks are looking for like minded individuals to justify their own opinions. The truth is I know the lay of the land, who my neighbors are and where the resources are located. I have enough to keep me and my family going for quite a while and I sure couldn't haul all that with me to some place else. So why would I leave?

[Adventure Wolf]

In most of Texas its not shoot and loot its loot and get shot.

In my opinion there is two types of looting. The first type is the type where the area is destroyed like New Orleans after Katrina, and you have to loot to eat. Most of the stock in most of the stores were counted as complete losses and ended up in the dumpsters, so there's no loss if someone feeds their kids by grabbing a few boxes of hohos.

The second type is unforgivable. The second type of looting is when people use the position to take whatever they want like TVs, personal electronics, etc for personal profit. That is wrong.

I have two scenerios in my head. The first is to Bug in, at my farm. I've got two wells on the property, and enough supplies to last at least three weeks without trouble. The second is to bug out, and I have access to cabin up in Appalachia (not mine, but I have permission).

[Winter]

I have very little in place for any sort of bug out plan because I'm already there. Civil arrest in small towns will be a non issue unless that town or neighborhood is attacked by outside forces.

If I go running off in the woods, what good can I do for my neighbors and friends?

I may have to run uphill to avoid a tsunami. A landslide could cut off the road to town. Storms will break things and turn the lights off.

Civil unrest and foreign invasion are not the time to run away. That's when you stand up, man up, and f*** **** up.

[welderguy]

In my opinion there is two types of looting. The first type is the type where the area is destroyed like New Orleans after Katrina, and you have to loot to eat. Most of the stock in most of the stores were counted as complete losses and ended up in the dumpsters, so there's no loss if someone feeds their kids by grabbing a few boxes of hohos.

The second type is unforgivable. The second type of looting is when people use the position to take whatever they want like TVs, personal electronics, etc for personal profit. That is wrong.

I have two scenarios in my head. The first is to Bug in, at my farm. I've got two wells on the property, and enough supplies to last at least three weeks without trouble. The second is to bug out, and I have access to cabin up in Appalachia (not mine, but I have permission).

To me looting is looting, if you force your way into a building or trespass for the intent of taking what is not yours, its wrong what ever the reason. there are other ways to procure food for your child or who ever. If it was already in the dumpster fine but if it was still on the shelf of the store nope its stealing .

[Rick]

I agree. According to your theory it would be okay for me to sneak into your home and take whatever you have because I'm hungry. Just because it's a store doesn't make it right. You don't want me to catch you looting my home or the home of a neighbor after a major disaster. If you and your family are hungry....ask....you'll probably get fed.

[welderguy]

Thats why during Katrina a lot of store owners camped out on there roofs armed and waiting for just the scenario you described. it will be the same at my home just a lot better equipped to handle the situation

[1stimestar]

Would most of us steal to feed our hungry children if all other options were exhausted? Probably. But that is why we have a plan and are prepared, so we wont have to. Don't make it part of your plan.

[welderguy]

Would most of us steal to feed our hungry children if all other options were exhausted? Probably. But that is why we have a plan and are prepared, so we wont have to. Don't make it part of your plan.

I understand the sentiment behind stealing to feed a hungry child, but the chance of winding up dead and not being able to care for that child anyway would have me looking for other options even if i had to eat mine or the neighbors pets.

[ClayPick]

Eating someone’s pets might not be a good plan either. LOL!

[welderguy]

Eating someone’s pets might not be a good plan either. LOL!

I figure if its in my yard at the time its fair game!! :)

[hunter63]

The country you choose to run to will include those that probably won't want you there to compete for limited supplies. Assuming you can actually survive long enough to get there. Everyone seems to think if some giant calamity were to happen they would be survivors. If it were that big and that bad most likely we'd be called casualties. The problem with these make believe scenarios is there is no reality. It's what ever your opinion happens to be and most often folks are looking for like minded individuals to justify their own opinions. The truth is I know the lay of the land, who my neighbors are and where the resources are located. I have enough to keep me and my family going for quite a while and I sure couldn't haul all that with me to some place else. So why would I leave?

To me this statement pretty much sums up in general the thinking of the fantasy crowd.....We tend to think of our selves as the hero, not one of the masses, problem is so does everyone else.

I would think that each and every one of us would think the same......
Recalling a story MF told of B-29 bomber crew briefing......CO say's "Tomorrow 1/2 of you are not going to come back" each crew looked at the other and thought, "Poor bustard's".

So I guess I don't "Play well with others"....I don't know if you are looking to take my stuff, or just want to have a fantasy, or what.
Talk specifics, Like " I have 4 ways out of town, including walking.....Or my back up BOL is "X" miles away.....

[1stimestar]

I understand the sentiment behind stealing to feed a hungry child, but the chance of winding up dead and not being able to care for that child anyway would have me looking for other options even if i had to eat mine or the neighbors pets.

That is an option and is exactly why I specifically said "if all other options were exhausted".

[welderguy]

That is an option and is exactly why I specifically said "if all other options were exhausted".

I did see that :) but I cant help think, with the skills that a lot of us have for foraging, hunting, trapping, fishing, etc etc I don't see some of us ever having to resort to that. I can see dumpster diving as a means to supplement what you already have. I was homeless for a period in my life I never resorted to stealing and there were a few days I didnt eat much if anything. I always found a way without stealing.

[Rick]

Hunter, you are absolutely correct. I would bet none of the 1 million Armenians, 6 million Jewish, 2 million Cambodians or any of the 100k Croations considered themselves a casualty even though all of them became one. You see the same theme on here repeatedly. I'll survive and take out the roving hoardes that are trying to pillage. I'm no military man but I think I remember it takes 4 men to route 1 man from a defended position. Something like that. Lemme see...there's one of me and a roving horde. Lemme do some guzintas.

[randyt]

in a fantasy world, applied explosives evens up the odds.

[welderguy]

so does a couple big mean dogs, a few class III weapons, and a few well trained associates.

[Rick]

So now the horde has to have 12 men. I think explosives and class III were probably included in that military number. I mean, it's military, right? Come on. Give me a challenge. The last castle that was successfully defended was somewhere around 1294. Give or take a 500 years. Oh, and excluding XBox.

[welderguy]

So now the horde has to have 12 men. I think explosives and class III were probably included in that military number. I mean, it's military, right? Come on. Give me a challenge. The last castle that was successfully defended was somewhere around 1294. Give or take a 500 years. Oh, and excluding XBox.

Oh come on if your excluding xbox im not playing:thumbdown:

[Winter]

The last castle that was successfully defended was somewhere around 1294. Give or take a 500 years. Oh, and excluding XBox.

This is not entirely true Rick, many places have been defended successfully for a period of time. In the case of SHTF defense, you only have to defend for 1 minute more then the attacker is willing to keep pressing the attack.

In every conflict there are defensive positions that were never taken simply because the attacker ran out of persons to attack or the gumption to attack.

People are under the false assumption that looters will have high morale. They absolutely won't. They will not be willing to die attacking a hard target. All modern situations of this nature play out like this. Only military forces will keep coming and coming.

[letslearntogether47]

My plan would depend on if the grid went down.
Cause I have to check Facebook before any solid plans are made. :)

[Winter]

My plan would depend on if the grid went down.
Cause I have to check Facebook before any solid plans are made. :)

Perfectly useful comms. Try code on FB in PM's.

Talk to your neighbors.

[1stimestar]

I did see that :) but I cant help think, with the skills that a lot of us have for foraging, hunting, trapping, fishing, etc etc I don't see some of us ever having to resort to that. I can see dumpster diving as a means to supplement what you already have. I was homeless for a period in my life I never resorted to stealing and there were a few days I didnt eat much if anything. I always found a way without stealing.

Lol yes exactly. We would do what ever we had to for our kids blah blah blah. What ever we had to. For most of us, no, that would not NECESSITATE stealing. Kind of saying, this isn't a pissing contest about who is the better parent but who is the better prepared, (making us the better parent anyways.) Lol never mind, now I need a beer.

[welderguy]

Lol yes exactly. We would do what ever we had to for our kids blah blah blah. What ever we had to. For most of us, no, that would not NECESSITATE stealing. Kind of saying, this isn't a pissing contest about who is the better parent but who is the better prepared, (making us the better parent anyways.) Lol never mind, now I need a beer.

its all a vicious circle isnt it !! LOL

[Rick]

Winter, we're tunneling under your house and building a fire. Horde after horde after horde.

[hunter63]

Lol yes exactly. We would do what ever we had to for our kids blah blah blah. What ever we had to. For most of us, no, that would not NECESSITATE stealing. Kind of saying, this isn't a pissing contest about who is the better parent but who is the better prepared, (making us the better parent anyways.) Lol never mind, now I need a beer.

Yeah well, now that reality has really been blown by...(get it blown by?)....I'm with ya on the beer, ...or 6.

[letslearntogether47]

Perfectly useful comms. Try code on FB in PM's.

Talk to your neighbors.

Exactly.
Great recon without exposing yourself.
As there is strength in numbers it would be very practical to meet up with other well armed friends to help multiply chances of survival. This really all depends on the circumstances.
It might be in my best interest to see if local law enforcement would need help maintaining order.
The Twilight Zone episode "Maple Street" comes to mind.

[hunter63]

Sometimes the thought occurs to me...There seems to be a percentage of people that are disappointed that the S hasn't majorly HTF .

Like getting dressed for a party, and there isn't one.............

[kyratshooter]

So now the horde has to have 12 men. I think explosives and class III were probably included in that military number. I mean, it's military, right? Come on. Give me a challenge. The last castle that was successfully defended was somewhere around 1294. Give or take a 500 years. Oh, and excluding XBox.

The impossibility of a defense is some of the heaviest misinformation the survival crowd has been fed in recent years. if we are going to start dating events I have some basic information that needs attention.

In the course of 400 years of frontier warfare no frontier fort (those pitiful little stockades made from logs) was ever taken unless;

1. the enemy had artillery
2. there were no guards on duty
3. someone opened the gates and let the attackers in

On several occasions groups of less than 20 civilians held out against attacking forces of 400 to 1,000 men.

You can resource the Battle of the Bluffs at Nashville, TN, the Battle of Buchannan Station, also in middle Tennessee, The Battle of Beldsoe Station in Goodlettsville, TN, The Battle of Boonesboro in KY, the Battle of Harrodsburg, in Kentucky, the Battle of Adobe Walls. The list goes on and on. Both sides had equal technology the attackers had superior forces, and the defense held out.

Why were they successful? Because the "Golden Horde" of that day was a volunteer force with no pay, no benefits, no medical care, no penalty for going home when things got tough. Much like the looting horde envisioned in our present SHTF imaginary situations.

Just ask any Korean convenience store owner in LA.

Usually if the better shots behind the walls could spot the leadership and take them out at long range the attack would fizzle out. The longest sniper kill in the Eastern US occurred at Boonesboro in 1777, and the longest known sniper shot in western frontier warfare occurred at Adobe Walls. Both instances were closely followed by between 500 and 900 Indians decision to "go back to the house".

In addition, anyone that has been combat trained in a leadership role has been set down on a position and told to prepare a defense starting with nothing but bare ground. Combat training consists of TWO parts; attack and defense. The school still recommends a ratio of 4/1 in favor of the attacker if attacking a well situated and hardened defensive position even if you have fire support and superior weapons.

[Batch]

Hunter, you are absolutely correct. I would bet none of the 1 million Armenians, 6 million Jewish, 2 million Cambodians or any of the 100k Croations considered themselves a casualty even though all of them became one. You see the same theme on here repeatedly. I'll survive and take out the roving hoardes that are trying to pillage. I'm no military man but I think I remember it takes 4 men to route 1 man from a defended position. Something like that. Lemme see...there's one of me and a roving horde. Lemme do some guzintas.

There are so many stories of people that left Germany and other European countries before things got bad, Stories of escape after things got bad, stories of survival in-spite of not leaving. The same is true of most the other massacres you mentioned. There are plenty of escape and evasion stories. The ones who stayed either didn't believe it would happen or hoped they would be spared.

The movie Defiance tells one story of people bugging out. There are stories about Armenians escaping the massacre and 70 years later of people escaping the Armenians. In fact the survivor stories are either they got out or the some how managed to defy the odds by surviving an all out attempt to wipe out a group of people.

But, I can't think of a single story of a Jewish community that stayed home and resisted from their home. Those that even tried were slaughtered or simply burned alive.

[kyratshooter]

There is a large and significant difference between resisting a group of looters and trying to fight a German Panzer division!!!

[Batch]

There is a large and significant difference between resisting a group of looters and trying to fight a German Panzer division!!!

Quite right. But, "1 million Armenians, 6 million Jewish, 2 million Cambodians or any of the 100k Croations" was the example I was referring to and in their situation the ones who stayed mostly died after they were being tortured. Those who fled had at least a fighting chance. I am a bug in kind of guy. But, history is history and those are just a couple of examples.

[welderguy]

There are so many stories of people that left Germany and other European countries before things got bad, Stories of escape after things got bad, stories of survival in-spite of not leaving. The same is true of most the other massacres you mentioned. There are plenty of escape and evasion stories. The ones who stayed either didn't believe it would happen or hoped they would be spared.

The movie Defiance tells one story of people bugging out. There are stories about Armenians escaping the massacre and 70 years later of people escaping the Armenians. In fact the survivor stories are either they got out or the some how managed to defy the odds by surviving an all out attempt to wipe out a group of people.

But, I can't think of a single story of a Jewish community that stayed home and resisted from their home. Those that even tried were slaughtered or simply burned alive.
How well armed were they ? could they see there attackers coming from a distance? did they have any training? Would it matter? Not one bit, Because Kyrat already said it , a group of untrained under armed rag tags looking for a easy score will run when one or two hit the ground bleeding. A military unit will what ? call in an air strike? drive a tank thru your living room? a couple RPG's maybe. HUGE difference!!

[Batch]

Rick referenced certain specific atrocities. I replied to those specific atrocities. They are historical, meaning you can read about something that actually happened and site specific instances. LOL

I'm not even a prepper. I am an outdoors man. I joined the forum because it is a WILDERNESS survival forum LOL

But, on occasion someone brings up a purely hypothetical. If specific real events are referenced is there some prepper rule against responding to it?

You can't use genocide dude! It's either untrained, under armed rag tag marauding hordes or nothing. Ok, you win! I surrender this thread and flee to some other topic. :banana:

[welderguy]

Rick referenced certain specific atrocities. I replied to those specific atrocities. They are historical, meaning you can read about something that actually happened and site specific instances. LOL

I'm not even a prepper. I am an outdoors man. I joined the forum because it is a WILDERNESS survival forum LOL

But, on occasion someone brings up a purely hypothetical. If specific real events are referenced is there some prepper rule against responding to it?

You can't use genocide dude! It's either untrained, under armed rag tag marauding hordes or nothing. Ok, you win! I surrender this thread and flee to some other topic. :banana:

That actually makes no sense unless im not reading it right?

[1stimestar]

That actually makes no sense unless im not reading it right?

It was funny.

[welderguy]

I didnt get it !!

[welderguy]

Ok after reading it several more time It clicked got it now!!!!

[randyt]

not that it really matters but that shot at adobe walls was one lucky shot, LOL.

[Rick]

I only referenced them to indicate none of them thought of themselves as victims until the very end. No one thinks, "I'm a victim". As Hunter said, everyone thinks it's the other guy. We've had a bizillion folks on here and talk about defending their bunker, house, BOL or whatever like they managed to survive the big THING and now they will survive anything mankind has to throw at them. It's a pipe dream. If it's that bad the odds of you or me living through it are pretty dismal.

Kyrat - You're right. I have to start putting Bazinga! on the end of my posts where appropriate. Folks mistake my humor for truth.......Hmmm.....Of course that could work in my favor....Oh, Bazinga!

[Winter]

You are depressing me Rick. I didn't realize your survival plan was not to survive. You must be saving big bucks on preps.

The plan of an Administrator on a wilderness survival forum is to accept death and defeat?

You should at least fake a survival mindset for the forumites sake.

[Batch]

Yeah, but Rick every example you posted showed proactive leaving was a life saver. And there are many more examples.

I don't expect that this type of unrest will touch me in my life time. I am just not foolish enough to believe that it can't and that I am prepared for every encounter.

Were all of the victims of the inconsequential riots in LA white? Of course not. Were any of those Koreans protecting their stores from looters killed? Yup! A Korean protecting a store was killed by Koreans protecting stores. Blacks were shot and killed more often or as often than whites.

[Rick]

I don't understand the point either of you are trying to make.

Winter - No, I don't plan for hordes. I plan for weather related events and a few man made events such as a chemical accident or a meth lab. I believe the odds of some weather related phenomenon to be FAR more likely than any of the apocalyptic scenarios of solar flares, EMPs, economic collapse, invasion, rogue comets or what ever else will cause the world to end. So my plan and my role as an administrator is to do what I've always said folks should do. List those threats they deem most likely to occur where they live, rank them in order of most likely to least likely and spend their resources on the most likely first. I've posted those lists in the past to help folks decide what their greatest threats might be. Because I don't believe in the roving hordes theory does not suggest my plan is to accept death and defeat. However, some event so large that it results is a broad geographic displacement of people and/or their death probably means you or I will also be one of those dead or displacement folks. That's just being realistic. To think you and you alone will be the hero in that type of scenario is a bit delusional.

Batch - One person or 1 million not thinking they are victims has nothing to do with folks leaving. Do you think you will be a victim or do you envision yourself somehow surviving the THING? I'll put money on the latter because that's human nature. We don't think it will happen to us. If we see ourselves as a victim from the outset that's pretty defeatist and negates the need for any preps at all. Although my preparations are geared toward weather related events my guess is they are sufficient enough to aid me and my family through some other event. There is nothing off the table in my preps. However, there are those things I feel are not likely to occur in my lifetime so I don't plan specifically for them.

There will always be those that leave and those that stay. Both believe they will be survivors. My comment was not geared toward the strategy but toward the mind set of the individuals that wound up being victims. In fact, there were survivors in each of the mass murders I listed. My guess, and it's only that, is they held on to the belief they would survive even when death was all around them. How else could you mentally survive those ordeals? It will always happen to the other guy, not me. That's our first line of mental defense. The reality is we may well be the other guy. That's my only point. Our plan should also encompass that possibility. If you don't survive and your family does what are they supposed to do? Do they know where everything is and how to use it? Do they know what the plan is? Rhetorical questions but everyone's plan should encompass everyone in the family so everyone knows what's going on.

[ElevenBravo]

Im heading up to my buddy's place on the mountain with trailer en tow... *IF* it gets that bad. A larger group has a better chance of survival than a small group (one family) or an individual trying to go solo. (mind you I say larger group with a certain cull limit, once it gets too big the resource demand gets huge and logistics are a nightmare)

EB

[Batch]

Rick, it seemed to me you have advocated staying put very strongly. Just short of saying anyone who is prepared should not leave home.


The country you choose to run to will include those that probably won't want you there to compete for limited supplies. Assuming you can actually survive long enough to get there. Everyone seems to think if some giant calamity were to happen they would be survivors. If it were that big and that bad most likely we'd be called casualties. The problem with these make believe scenarios is there is no reality. It's what ever your opinion happens to be and most often folks are looking for like minded individuals to justify their own opinions. The truth is I know the lay of the land, who my neighbors are and where the resources are located. I have enough to keep me and my family going for quite a while and I sure couldn't haul all that with me to some place else. So why would I leave?

I have always said I prepare for hurricanes and have no plans to leave my home in most events. But, I have said I would take my family into the woods in the case of a civil uprising. When I type that I have certain very historical types of unrest in my head. I am certain that with all of the ammo and firearms I have most on here would feel safe defending the house. I would not. History shows you will most likely die in those situations.

You mentioned some of the events I was talking about. History has shown getting out early was the best chance of survival.

I am in no way saying these are likely to occur here. But, in the event they did you might want to know how it works.

[hunter63]

Im heading up to my buddy's place on the mountain with trailer en tow... *IF* it gets that bad. A larger group has a better chance of survival than a small group (one family) or an individual trying to go solo. (mind you I say larger group with a certain cull limit, once it gets too big the resource demand gets huge and logistics are a nightmare)

EB

I don't think "a buddy's place" would be my first plan "A" unless you really have a firm "In".....
Remember, family many time will trump friends, and you will be in the "cull" crowd.

I would not feel comfortable with this plan.....and I do have friends that half joking will comment....."I'm coming over to your place if IT happens".

[hunter63]

All things considered.....seems the older I get, the less attractive and simply logistically difficult, a Bug Out (to the woods) becomes.
Just the idea of needed Meds make thing limited to 90 days.

Everyone has to make up their what is best for them, and their family.

[Seniorman]

I've always believed that in the event of some "national" or "international" catastrophe that all the bugger outters will be so numerous heading for the hill or forests or deserts, that they'll be running into each other. They'll need stop lights out in the remote areas just to prevent collisions. :thumbup1:

S.M.

[hunter63]

Hummmm, SW Idaho, huh?......
So, Like, What's your address......LOL

Which is to say....How do those that already live in the area that others are bugging out "TO" feel about the idea?

[kyratshooter]

As a professional historian I notice a sudden increase in references to "History" with no supporting historical references.

Saying "History proves...." with no citations is not prof or any support to any opinion.

That is especially apparent when the speculated "event" is an imaginary scenario that has never happened.

In turn, there are many recorded historical events that provide good measures of performance that can be transferred from past to present that are not being referenced.

So far all that "history proves" is that TEOTWAWKI is a money generating myth and tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, grid failures and chemical spills are a daily occurrence.

[Seniorman]

Hummmm, SW Idaho, huh?......
So, Like, What's your address......LOL

Which is to say....How do those that already live in the area that others are bugging out "TO" feel about the idea?

I could tell you, but............................. :bat:

As for those people who live in remote areas and what they'd think/do about an invasion of "voracious locusts," I doubt they'd be too happy about it. They'd probably look slightly askance at pillagers, bandits, looters, and freebooters. :m107:

S.M.

[Winter]

I don't understand the point either of you are trying to make.

Winter - No, I don't plan for hordes. I plan for weather related events and a few man made events such as a chemical accident or a meth lab. I believe the odds of some weather related phenomenon to be FAR more likely than any of the apocalyptic scenarios of solar flares, EMPs, economic collapse, invasion, rogue comets or what ever else will cause the world to end. So my plan and my role as an administrator is to do what I've always said folks should do. List those threats they deem most likely to occur where they live, rank them in order of most likely to least likely and spend their resources on the most likely first. I've posted those lists in the past to help folks decide what their greatest threats might be. Because I don't believe in the roving hordes theory does not suggest my plan is to accept death and defeat. However, some event so large that it results is a broad geographic displacement of people and/or their death probably means you or I will also be one of those dead or displacement folks. That's just being realistic. To think you and you alone will be the hero in that type of scenario is a bit delusional.



That makes more sense and follows standard risk assessment protocols.

The hypothetical question that starts this thread leaves respondents to create hypothetical answers.

I don't plan for foreign invasion, but if asked what I'll do if it happens and I say; "Shoot'em" as an answer does not make it a fantasy.

[Rick]

"Shoot'em" as an answer does not make it a fantasy.

Only if you 1) Think it has already occurred, 2)You will defeat the invaders by yourself or 3)Plan to use your penlight laser to shoot them. ..... Bazinga!

[ElevenBravo]

That's a good point Hunter63, but my bud's place is also the place where a fellow Infantryman lives AND the invite has already been extended, so the understanding has already been set.

You cant just "show up", there has to be at least a verbal contract prior to an event.

EB

[hunter63]

I do agree that a group of trusted family/friends is a valuable asset.....So good on you.

One friend has acreage, and his buddies from Vietnam have a "hunting camp"...each guy has a trailer already there and is really set up like a fire base.

[Winter]

"Shoot'em" as an answer does not make it a fantasy.

Only if you 1) Think it has already occurred, 2)You will defeat the invaders by yourself or 3)Plan to use your penlight laser to shoot them. ..... Bazinga!

I don't understand what you mean.

[Rick]

It was a joke. It's fantasy if..........Hence the bazinga on the end.