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View Full Version : What are to going to do about your flooded basement?



sofasurfer
11-06-2013, 06:08 AM
I live in Michigan where most homes have a problem with water entering the basement. Fact: When there is no power basements flood. You can not live, indefinitely, in a home with a constantly flooded basement. Mold will grow, wood will rot, bugs will infest the home, all basement stored item will be destroyed.

What are you going to do to keep the basement dry when the grid goes down? From what I can tell a solar pump system will cost a lot of money and if an EMP goes off the solar system will be toast.

I do not see any room for hope in this situation. Anyone figured this out?

Rick
11-06-2013, 07:44 AM
Assuming all the problems you addressed come true, it just adds additional work. First, you have a source of fairly clean water in your sump. It still needs to be treated but if you had an EMP event you don't have to worry about the sump water being contaminated. Second, take a bucket, fill it up and empty it outside. Do that as often as necessary. That's the cheap method.

OR, purchase a manual rotary pump and run a hose to the sump and a hose outside the basement window or tap into the outflow pipe from the sump.

Solar Geek
11-06-2013, 10:18 AM
This is not an unsolvable problem. It will take some work but here are the basic steps to improve an EXISTING home's grade/waterproof situation and how civil engineers handle it with new homes. I am NOT an engineer, just have run into this over and over during my work and moving.

Some existing homes will require more work such as French drains but, having moved 15 times, having had homes from 1909 to a new one, and having worked for one of the largest landfill companies in the world, there are some basics you can do to really limit flooding.

1. Assuming your water is not an artesian well springing up in your basement (some of our acquaintances had this and there really is no fix), WALK AROUND your entire home both close up and about 100' away looking at how the land meets the building or the sidewalk perimeter around your place. Is it level? Is it uneven so that there are dips or slight hilling in some places as it meets the side of the home?

The ideal ground surround is for the land to NOT be level but to be at a slope away from the home to prevent water from pooling for even an instant against the home. Here is an article explaining that but they are assuming you have heavy equipment and are building a new home. Most people do not have access to Bobcats or land moving equipment. However, read the article for the info.

http://jobsite.buildiq.com/articles/risk-management/foundation-grade.aspx

2.THE BASIC premise is that with grading and swaling, all homes can remain dry. Our current home that we built followed this guy's principles.
Our home has a 4' stone and gravel surround up against the home with the smallest stone at a depth of 5' and then dirt. Thus the home is surrounded by what looks like white stones but the purpose is what we call the "final save". Then the grass starts.

The grading of our house is severe as we have a 90' high rock formation 300'feet behind us which shoots literally tons of water at us in rains/snow melts.

At the foot of the formation, we have our septic which is hilled toward our home. 50' from that we had a deep swale (5' lower than our house's basic elevation) dug surrounding the home. Small stones were put in there. Then the ground goes up towards the home, meeting the 4' stone surround. SO water comes off our roof, shoots across the yard (overhangs direct it outside the 4' perimeter of stone basically) and down to the swale which then directs the water to a safe pathway away from our basement. Water from the rock formation shoots across the septic into the swale for the same results.

We have had record rainfall and so far all is well.

Ok so without equipment how do you do this with existing homes? It will take work, time, and friends to help most likely.

2. At several of our older homes we did have to hire professionals to solve it only because we did not have the time nor expertise then to fix a home mostly surrounded by a CEMENT walkway. We carefully learned what they did to fix the feet of water entering our basements.

But at our 1st house, very little walkway and we figured it out on a common sense basis. And did it ourselves and with friends.

First, after looking at how your home/land meet up, and assuming no concrete surround like that house, take measurements to see if your visual is correct and the land is sloping in some or all places towards the home.

If the grade slopes EVEN gently towards the home, you must correct it. Even if it is level you should correct it. This may involve moving landscaping (see below) but read the guy's article again

and look for others with a search such as "grading slope to prevent water intrusion into basement".

This will take dirt being delivered and you working hard with shovels. You have to realize the dirt you place WILL settle so plan accordingly with how much you use. Mound up enough to make a gentle grade away from the home as he suggests. If you live in the city don't make your grading shoot water onto the neighbor. You may need to mound it up against the home and then have a slight dip/swale directing it towards the street or back of the property.

3. GET PLASTIC COVERS FOR ALL WINDOW WELLS IN BASEMENT.

4. Look at your landscaping (we had tons at that house) and realize the roots are a pathway for water to run down alongside your basement walls and if there are any cracks, will provide a sure entryway for water either through direct flow or through destructive "efflorescence" of dampness that breaks down your walls. SADLY, you may have to move all landscaping back from the home.

At our 1st 1935 house, a Techny Arbor vitae tall pine tree fell and caused water to gush into the basement with the slightest rainfall. As a short term fix that held for 30 YEARS! we first filled in where the roots had torn out to be higher than level against the home's basement walls. The we placed black plastic garbage bags over that dirt and mounded more dirt on there so the slope was about 4" higher than the previous slope - we knew settling would occur so prevented a future problem there.

Then, sadly we had to have all the other small and large bushes and trees taken out to do the same - otherwise we would just have had one after the other's root systems allow water into the basement. I called all neighbors and relatives and offered the bushes/tree (very small ones) to them. My cousin still has beautiful maples he pulled out at 5' tall, now 50'-100' tall at his place. He took 30 trees!

We had dirt delivered and since the long rolls of black plastic did not exist then (1983) for us, we used the same method of filling, raising the grade and placing the black plastic then more dirt, all along the perimeter of the home. By simply changing the grade, we prevented inflow.

Next home we learned about waterproofing the basement. But you have to change the grade first to fix HOW the water comes in.

5. Check your gutters and downspouts. Clean them regularly, and make sure you have the longest extensions you are allowed (some cities we lived in did not allow longer than a 5' extension reasoning that you were making your problems your NEIGHBOR's by shooting roof rainwater their way).

You can use water proof paints to help prevent efflorescence in an older home.

Ok so there are the basics. If you think you need more, look up "swaling" "grading" and "waterproofing of basements with paint".
Hope this helps.

natertot
11-06-2013, 10:18 AM
I have a slab house.......... Problem solved!

Solar Geek
11-06-2013, 10:21 AM
More helpful websites.

http://mycomllc.com/The_Importance_of_Proper_Water_Diversion.html

http://landscaping.about.com/od/sitegradingdrainage/f/land_grading.htm

http://www.bestpickreports.com/blog/post/preventing-water-intrusion-problems

More about roofs, gutters, flashing.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Water---The-Enemy-of-Your-Home&id=795209

hunter63
11-06-2013, 12:33 PM
Heck of a post there SG....Lots of great info.

My experience is a little different as the most problems and damage in the past was caused by sewer back up.....whole different animal as we have little control of the weather (overloading the sewer system)..and bad planning by the city.....adding home and businesses to our line.

The "solution" for the last 12+ years has been the placement of a 6 in diesel pump at the end of the block, to pump from sanitary sewer to a storm sewer a block away.....down the street I might add.

Unless some one has a grinder pump in a pit....there really isn't any other way to deal with this, if the puamp isn't there, or the system is overloaded, power or not. Ship does run down hill to a point.....but.

You just don't have valuables stored down there, used al-cheapo hard board paneling 36" tall, that can be ripped out and replaced for a couple hundred bucks.
Lots of totes, buckets and ammo boxes and keep stores up on shelves in water proof containers.

Everything placed on pallets to keep dry......but a big back up will destroy the washer, dryer, furnace blower, and an up right freezer.

Standard sump pump, plus a 12 volt pump/ charger set up could be amended with solar, and back up batteries.....sun don't shine when it's raining.

Rick
11-06-2013, 01:12 PM
Oh, man. I'd buy a really big cork and pound that sucker in with a sledge. I have enough of my own chit to deal with. I don't need to store someone else's in my basement.

hunter63
11-06-2013, 02:07 PM
Oh, man. I'd buy a really big cork and pound that sucker in with a sledge. I have enough of my own chit to deal with. I don't need to store someone else's in my basement.

They actually make a check valve to put in floor drain the city give them out for free.......that possibility isn't viable any longer since I built a bathroom in the basement, too may drains I can't get to.

Back before BR we all had stand pipes....floor drains are threaded on the inside..... the whole neighborhood did, and they kept getting taller and taller.....he who has the shortest pipe get the ship.......Just like life.....LOL

Mine was almost all the way up to the basement ceiling.......but everyone kinda backed off, as the pressure was getting to the ..."Break your floor and really be screwed" stage.

Wildthang
11-06-2013, 02:12 PM
Dig a well point on the downhill side of the house and install a windmill pump!

gryffynklm
11-06-2013, 04:40 PM
Had a neighbor that decided to plug a floor drain in his basement when power went out and ground water started coming up the drain. Water rose enough to cause his basement floor to buckle.

I have a dry laid stone foundation with part dirt and part stone paved from 1790. There is actually a spring cellar on one end. I did some grading improvement on the problem side as well as directed the down spouts away and down grade. We only get water flow through the spring cellar when we get a lot of rain. I still need to test the water rise with power out. Currently we have a sump that empties the cistern that collects the spring water. This is a puzzle we are still working on. Currently no storage in cellar.

hunter63
11-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Hummm, are you sure it was ground water?....generally the floor drain is connected to the sanitary sewer....but possible to a pit drain.......but hard to say.
That would tell me that there is a leak in the tile/pipe allowing ground water to come in.

When digging up the floor of the basement for the sewer tie-in for the drains, toilet, shower sink.....found the level of the ground water about 2" down for the bottom of the floor.
I needed to set my sump pump float lower, so as to drain out the underside of the floor, but not cycle all the time.

When I punched thru the tile from the existing sewer......the standing water under the floor, just started to drain down, like flushing the toilet.....completed the connection of a stub out and sealed it all back up.

Sump pump does still work well as far a level goes....and ability to keep up.

Outside grading, landscaping, down spouts etc., are very important.....as well a just using care when watering the foundation plantings (trees and flowers).
I built a planter box from cedar and bermed the ground around the front of the house after fixing a crack....no more water problems from that.

gryffynklm
11-06-2013, 06:09 PM
That was so long ago I couldn't tell you one way or another. Just what I was told they plugged the floor drain and buckled the floor.

hunter63
11-06-2013, 06:55 PM
I hear that...that's why everyone backed off the stand pipes.

Generally the sanitary sewer are separate form the storm sewer ...in cities anyway.

Problem comes from older houses that actually had gutters running into the sanitary sewer, and were built like that.
Later when sump pumps were required, people plumbed the pipes to the sanitary....over loading the whole system.

They actually do a "smoke test" to see who need to separate the systems these days.

All this is important, but doesn't solve the problem if the grid goes down ...and there is no power to run all this stuff.

Back to the OP.

Rick
11-06-2013, 09:14 PM
Many years ago we were working in an old firehouse basement wrecking out equipment. The basement was about 2 foot deep in water. I found a 5 gallon glass jar half fuel of "water", carted it over to the floor drain and emptied it. About 30 minutes later we heard this god awful sucking sound and the basement emptied. Whoosh! Turns out the "water" was actually about 50% sulfuric acid for the fire engine batteries. I have no idea where that water went but I'll bet the pipes were shiny inside.

hunter63
11-07-2013, 12:01 PM
In a previous life....worked in a factory that made and processed wire, ...and as part of the process it had to be cleaned, in 3000 gal vats that contained sulfuric acid.....don't recall the exact mix.

On Fridays, one of several vats were sometimes drained down the drain as part of the shut down/cleaning process.
Had to call the city...they would lift the screens (metal grates)along the route....and we would just open a value and let it rip.....down to the sewer plant..

Now those pipes must have looked a gun barrel..........LOL

Of course this became a "no no" so we had to pump the "pickle juice" into a truck....then truck it down to the sewer plant.....they used it to balance the Ph in their process ot treating the sewage.

So the effect was the same, although more expensive but better controlled with the trucks......

LowKey
11-07-2013, 08:23 PM
Wildthang, I've been considering that windmill pump idea. I have a water feature in the basement from the time the leaves fall off the trees until they all come back. More of an artisian problem than run off I think, though the back hill is all glacial hardpan. Even with a swale and french drains it's no use. Even had it surveyed to see if I could drain it to a downhill corner of the property to a storm drain but it was a foot too low. All I need is storm drain backup...
Of course I suppose I could fill it with concrete and call it a slab...
Or move to my own place and not worry about it.

RALPER
02-08-2014, 07:17 PM
Footing drains are the way to go if the house is high enough above the surrounding land to bring it out to the surface.
Do not install footing drains then run them into an underground dry well. This does not work!