Heating

[CloudDancer]

I sure hope this is the right section as this is my first post. Hubby and I bought an old 40 year old travel trailer. It's in great shape, has a bathroom with tub and shower, kitchen with stove, oven, refrigerator it's been kept well of course we are fixing it up, paint new curtains. We have bought solar panels that work great runs a little B/W TV with a DVD player and will run lighting. We bout it because we plan on retiring here in the desert. AND if the world goes to crap and we have to bug out of here. We live in Winslow AZ now for about 4 years, love it. Hubby has a good job....what we need to know, is about heating. What's the best way to heat a travel trailer, the desert where we are gets dustings of snow or up to a couple inches, doesn't last long, we're at 5000 ft so we have weather and seasons. It would have to be a low wattage electric heater or maybe a Chimineas, with pipping for the smoke to escape? Any info on how to solve this problem would be appreciated....we have stored water and food as we know we will not be able to have running water or use the kitchen appliances, that's really not an issues...it's not freezing to death
Thanks

[hunter63]

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.
There is an introduction section
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Introductions

Our small camping trailer had a 115/12v conversion boc to run a 9000 btu propane furnace....kinda pricey in cold weather, but worked fine for hunting week ends and deer season.

[randyt]

If wood isn't a option then I'm partial to a kerosene heater, Aladdin blue flame to be exact. I have two plus a iranian made model. My parents owned a trailer court in southeast tenn. Even with gas available most of their tenants used kerosene heaters.

[CloudDancer]

Thanks...I did go to the introductions section....trying to find some way with out using Electricity unless it can put out decent heat that doesn't use too much wattage (solar panels)

[hunter63]

What are your thoughts on cooling?........Most campers have got much for insulation which works both ways heat and cool.
Is this gonna be a permanent location or mobile?

[CloudDancer]

I will end up being permanent...it actually has central heat and air...unusual for a 40 year old RV.....

[Wildthang]

I would go with a couple of large solar panels, 2 or 4 deep cycle batteries, with a good size dc /ac inverter. Maybe even a small windmill to charge at night. This would allow you run a small electric heater, power tools, and many other electric items. These systems are expensive but in the long run they make it very comfortable and handy having a good source of ac power. I would not install it until I lived there full time because solar collectors will get stolen in short order if someone spots them, that would be the long term solution! For short term I would take a good generator out there when just spending the weekend and take it with me when I left.

[Skittish Prepper]

i'm under the impression that solar power is expensive at start up but cheaper in the long run... is this true?

[Winnie]

If wood isn't a option then I'm partial to a kerosene heater, Aladdin blue flame to be exact. I have two plus a iranian made model. My parents owned a trailer court in southeast tenn. Even with gas available most of their tenants used kerosene heaters.

Yup, I have a couple of Aladdin Blue flame heaters as back up too. They're great. You can also use them as a slow cooker, take the lid off, and most have a pot stand under there. You can't exactly boil water, but you can heat it, and slow cook a meal.

[randyt]

I was poking around one of the barns and found a couple aladdin tr-5000 kerosene heaters. I knew they were there but didn't know what flavour so to speak. I fired one up a few years back to warm up the work shop for a bullet casting session. Worked good, I believe the aladdin tr-5000 is around 16000 btu and the aladdin blue flame is about 9000 btu. Don't know much about the tr-5000, would like to know more.

The last time I used the blue flame was to heat up some hog brains for brain tanning.

[CloudDancer]

Not expensive...you can get double long panels for under $100, check out Amazon.com.....and they have marine batteries for around $70

[Wildthang]

Not expensive...you can get double long panels for under $100, check out Amazon.com.....and they have marine batteries for around $70

Don't forget a charge controller and inverter!

[hunter63]

What are the wattages on those panels?
Also need a "dump load" with the charge controller.

[Wildthang]

What are the wattages on those panels?
Also need a "dump load" with the charge controller.

That can be a light or lights inside the house, but remember, you need a sound basic design based on your anticipated loads. Don't just buy a bunch of stuff, hook it up, and find out that you have not bought the right devices that suit your needs. Only you can know which loads you want to suport with this system, and how long they will be fed from the solar system, so figure out you anticipated loads, and add some safety factor to make sure the system will support your electrical demands.

[hunter63]

Not expensive...you can get double long panels for under $100, check out Amazon.com.....and they have marine batteries for around $70

You need to look at a whole system.....the couple of panels and a battery may run a 2 volt light...or with an inverter a 40or 60 watt light....not enough for heating.

Check out systems and cost ......Good magazine....I have side lined the "energy manufacturing" until I have completed my energy conversation up grades on out "Place".....This was after an energy audit , more bang for your buck that way.
http://www.homepower.com/

[AdrianWheeler]

I sure hope this is the right section as this is my first post. Hubby and I bought an old 40 year old travel trailer. It's in great shape, has a bathroom with tub and shower, kitchen with stove, oven, refrigerator it's been kept well of course we are fixing it up, paint new curtains. We have bought solar panels that work great runs a little B/W TV with a DVD player and will run lighting. We bout it because we plan on retiring here in the desert. AND if the world goes to crap and we have to bug out of here. We live in Winslow AZ now for about 4 years, love it. Hubby has a good job....what we need to know, is about heating. What's the best way to heat a travel trailer, the desert where we are gets dustings of snow or up to a couple inches, doesn't last long, we're at 5000 ft so we have weather and seasons. It would have to be a low wattage electric heater or maybe a Chimineas, with pipping for the smoke to escape? Any info on how to solve this problem would be appreciated....we have stored water and food as we know we will not be able to have running water or use the kitchen appliances, that's really not an issues...it's not freezing to death
Thanks

I have not used solar panels for heating water.. It seems like effective and efficient technique.. I will try my luck and share experience soon

[Rick]

And don't bother with marine batteries. While they will work there are better options. Look for Absorbed Glass Mat or AGM batteries. They are leak/spill proof, do not out gas when charging and provide a better overall performance. They are expensive but they maintain voltage better, don't self discharge as quickly and tend to last longer. Since they don't out gas you can safely keep them indoors so you maintain better temperature control over them. A step down from AGM is Gel. They are also ventless so they can be kept inside. If I had it to do over I would have gone with the AGM instead of the marine batteries. Flooded batteries of any kind would be my last choice.

Here's a link to my small setup. It starts at post 19.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?17040-Solar-power&highlight=sunforce

[woodsman86]

What about using propane? If you are setting up permanently, a large propane tank could run a small heater for quite some time as well as provide cooking and hot water. Propane does not go bad ever, unlike petroleum based fuels. I am not sure of the cost and whether you could get a tank filled on location or may have to work with a smaller tank that can be transported.

Just a thought...

[Rick]

40lb tanks will last a long time.

[1stimestar]

Husband and I spent a year in a converted school bus in Colorado. We had a propane heater and a propane cook stove. We would put terra cotta pots over the burners of the cook stove to radiate more heat. Even so, we would wake up in the morning with our pillows frozen to the walls and the dog's water bowl frozen solid. Of course, a school bus has no insulation just sheet metal. But a couple of propane heat sources were not enough to keep it comfortably warm.

[hunter63]

40lb tanks will last a long time.

About 8 days in a 1963 Shasta trailer, with an 8000BTU furnace, in 10 degree weather running all most all the time.

I do agree that propane would be the best option for long term storage....I have some old 20# tanks that are partially full/empty?...that are 20 years old, and still runs stuff just fine.

[Oddmott]

Was at a guy's hunt camp last weekend who had run a series of copper piping inside & outside his woodstove pipe to a 60gal hot water tank.

He fires every 4-6hrs, depending on temp, and his water is usually too hot to shower with. He has to draw a bath and let it cool. Apparently this is a fairly common set-up for off-gridders, but it was my first time seeing anything like it.

Kinda like what some folks do with their syrup evaporators to improve efficiency a bit.

[hunter63]

Was at a guy's hunt camp last weekend who had run a series of copper piping inside & outside his woodstove pipe to a 60gal hot water tank.

He fires every 4-6hrs, depending on temp, and his water is usually too hot to shower with. He has to draw a bath and let it cool. Apparently this is a fairly common set-up for off-gridders, but it was my first time seeing anything like it.

Kinda like what some folks do with their syrup evaporators to improve efficiency a bit.

One must be careful on system like this,....it needs to circulate, or a steam build up may cause a "unscheduled tank re-location ".......not good.

[woodsman86]

A neighbor when I was a kid ran his pool filter line thru a radiator in front of a torpedo heater. Same concept, made me think of that.

[hunter63]

All those home systems, kinda work.....and are interesting....gives you an idea how much people went thru, and the growing pains to get to the point where you can set your thermostat with your phone.

[Oddmott]

One must be careful on system like this,....it needs to circulate, or a steam build up may cause a "unscheduled tank re-location ".......not good.

Yeah his circulated. Something about larger piping here and smaller piping there that combined with the pressure of the heated water to produce a draw of some sort... i don't know. I was already 3 sheets to the wind on his homemade honeyed rye whiskey.

Oh, he had mentioned that his original tank was custom built to wrap around his stovepipe on the second floor, but everytime it drained too far and he forgot to fill it promptly, the steam pressure did build to dangerous levels.

[hunter63]

At "The Place" our original shower started in the shed.......3 gal bag hung up....kinda worked.
Purchased a Zolar propane heater with 6 v battery pump.......5 gal.....(Tried a Google, but insists on Solar?)....any way you circulated the water in the bax it came in, thru a coil heated with propane till it got warm.

At one point, had 100 ft of black hose on the roof of the shed. and again "kinda" worked.

Tried to add a 55 gal drum to the Zolar......[pump wouldn't fit, so switched to a 12 v sprayer pump.......that worked pretty well, but wasn't in the coils long enough to really give you hot water.

As I did have electric, added a 2-1/2 gal electric water heater, no mixing valve, thru a sprayer pump w/pressure switch, and a sprayer nozzle with a shut off that would shut down the pump.

This worked very well, and is still operational, using roof collected water.

So the system evolved over the years, and all versions "work" kinda.........LOL

I just find it interesting to see what people come up with.

[PopPop]

Propane. Get a big buddy heater and 20lb propane tanks, stay warm. Bigger tanks are are more cost effective. A wall mounted heater is more fuel efficient. I have an old mobile home hunting camp with a wall mounted 1800 btu propane heater. We use an electric fan for circulation. In sub freezing weather we can keep it toasty warm.

[NightShade]

One must be careful on system like this,....it needs to circulate, or a steam build up may cause a "unscheduled tank re-location ".......not good.
Absolutely!!!
This type of system can be extremely dangerous if not built properly.
Adding a temperature and pressure relief valve is a VERY good idea!! Otherwise, you're essentially building a bomb... It is literally only a matter of time before it blows up without proper expansion area and thermal relief.

[Wildthang]

Anybody ever heard of a compost heater? You basically take around 500 feet of copper tubing, and wind it around in circles as you put a 10' pile of manure over the coils. It doessn't make the water hot but even in the winter it will produce 80 degree water. Of course you only pump water through it when you need warm water.
And be sure and build it away from your bedroom window:scared:

[hunter63]

Here again I'm gonna refer to the Mother Earth News Magazine........They did several trials and articles back in the '70's and earth '80's
http://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/compost-water-heater-zmaz81jazraw.aspx#axzz2jh930nQB

And yes it did work for a few months, and reached temps over 140 degrees, if I remember correctly, but had to ramp up, only maintained the temp for a couple of weeks, then ramped down again.

If a compost pile is done correctly it doesn't smell bad......

BTW they used plastic piping....the price of any size of copper these days, @500 ft if it stayed in the pile....(maybe stolen) is considerable.

[RALPER]

As a full time RV'er, I can tell you that solar on a RV will not run A/C or any heat producing appliance except for maybe a coffee maker if you turn it off after the coffee is made. It is all in the watts ( volts X amps ). For a decent system you need at least 400 watts of panels angled up to the south, 4 - 225 amp deep cycle 6 volt gulf cart type batteries ( must be in pairs to get 12 volts), a GOOD controller ( Morningstar), and large wires between them (#4 at least). Mine are #2 after I fixed it so it would work like it is supposed to. Go to this blog to learn: Handy Bob Solar. Rule of thumb: 1 battery for 100 watts of panels.

[Lamewolf]

Be very careful with kerosene heaters in a travel trailer - there was a couple of deer hunters that died from carbon monoxide poisoning around here a few years back using one in a travel trailer ! You might want to look into solar heating at least for the daytime - lots of info on the web for diy solar heating, plus its free once you get the equipment paid for. Solar electric is handy but electric hearters are power hungry, so if you go that route you better have a BIG bunch of batteries and a BIG inverter. Another route would be to have one of the outside wood fired furnaces that pipes hot water into a radiator for heat - no chance of carbon monoxide that way because the fire and smoke is all outside. Just make sure and put it on the downwind side so all the smoke blows away from you.