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velacreations
07-18-2013, 12:23 PM
We had less than 1" of rain between October 2012 and July 2013. But, now that July is here, the rain season has started, which means that it is Spring, here!

We received about 2.5" of rain in the last 48 hours. The rainwater cisterns are filling up! We caught 4,000 gallons during this period, which is enough to keep our garden watered for an entire year.

Here's our roof potential:
House Roof + tank roofs - ~1,000 gallons of water per inch of rain.
Barn + barn tank - 500 gallons of water per inch of rain.
Sheds and assorted tanks - 150 gallons per inch of rain.

TOTAL - 1650 gallons per inch of rain

For capacity, we have the following:
House cisterns - 14,500 gallons + new tank(7,000 gallons, under construction)
Barn Tank - 7,000 gallons
Shed tanks - 1,500 gallons
Swimming pool - 2,000 gallons

TOTAL - 32,000 gallons

So, we need about 20 inches of rain to fill everything, if they start empty.

BUT, our water accounts are about:
House Tanks - 6,000 gallons
Swimming pool - 1,000 gallons
Barn tank - 1,500 gallons
Shed tanks - 1,000 gallons

TOTAL - 9,500 gallons

So, our current capacity is 32,000 - 9,500 gallons - 22,500 gallons, which translates to about 14 inches of rain.

We typically receive about 25 inches per year, and I think we're now around 5 inches for this year (4 of that is this month). We can reasonably expect 20 inches of rain between now and the end of October.

More information about how to build a big cistern: URL Removed.

Ken
07-18-2013, 12:35 PM
So.... are Abe and Josie here to share information or to promote their own website? Just askin'.

removed URL

hunter63
07-18-2013, 12:35 PM
Interesting information....as you profile doesn't state where you are, I assuming this is an important aspect of your life style and preps.....or Business?

I do use a small water collection system for a remote shower and wash station....and there is a Straw bale off grid home a 1/2 mile away....am some what versed in principal.
Mother Nature seems to not play fair all the time?....too much or too little?

Ken
07-18-2013, 01:06 PM
Last edited by Rick (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/posthistory.php?p=404887); Today at 01:04 PM. Reason: removed URL

He lurks in the depths of the Forum..........

Rick
07-18-2013, 01:10 PM
Lurks? I live in the depths. Just me, 2 twinkies and my hong. Sarge shows up occasionally to look for any change that you guys dropped and Crash does sweep up and tidies up after us.

Cast-Iron
07-18-2013, 01:31 PM
When folks call me at home during dinner or show up unannounced at my door, it ticks me off. I consider it rude and inconsiderate although I make exceptions for youngsters trying to raise money for their school or civic groups. When I came across this post, I got that same agitated feeling. Like some stranger showed up while I was "conversing" with friends and started peddling his Acme Wonder Gadget. Without even so much as a "Hello! I'm X from Y and this is a little bit about me. By the way I'm into rain collection if anyone here is interested."

So thank you, Velacreations! Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life that I'll never get back. I already know all I need to know about rainwater collection systems despite your incoherent post on the subject. If these systems are your business you really need to work on your pitch and be a whole lot more up front about your motives.

gryffynklm
07-18-2013, 02:09 PM
CAst Iron +1. Ya i got the same ooky feeling. I looked up Velacreations to see what others thought, interesting read.

crashdive123
07-18-2013, 03:44 PM
Rick is sooooooooooooo much more lenient than I am. I would have banned them quicker that water pours through a downspout.

Ken
07-18-2013, 04:59 PM
Crash? How quick does water pour through a downspout? Do you have numbers for both speed and volume? You see, I was thinking of building a cistern, and.....

crashdive123
07-18-2013, 08:55 PM
Crash? How quick does water pour through a downspout? Do you have numbers for both speed and volume? You see, I was thinking of building a cistern, and.....

It pours through wicked fast.

Rick
07-18-2013, 08:58 PM
I would have but they registered the 8th and didn't spam until the 18th. So I'm going with the, "Oops, I didn't know 'bout that", story.

crashdive123
07-18-2013, 09:03 PM
There could be a reason that 3 of the 4 posts were about having trouble registering......but hey......I'm cynical like that.

Rick
07-18-2013, 09:09 PM
My button is plugged in and warming up just in case.

welderguy
07-19-2013, 12:07 AM
SO whats the best cistern for a survival retreat?

Ken
07-19-2013, 05:38 AM
SO whats the best cistern for a survival retreat?

I built this one from random parts I had in the garage using plans in the March edition of "Popular Cisterns for Survival Retreats."


http://sanpatwater.com/images/West%20Portland%20tank%20delivered.jpg (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=municipal+water+storage+tanks&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=fY8IAg5JThM01M&tbnid=OoKp0WVHz584iM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsanpatwater.com%2Fnews6.8.10.php&ei=JgvpUe_nErL64AO-lYCQCQ&bvm=bv.49478099,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNFn3rBoKTSi3wjZXpGhCjmMYXjMaA&ust=1374312730296933)

Oddmott
07-19-2013, 09:11 AM
I built this one from random parts I had in the garage using plans in the March edition of "Popular Cisterns for Survival Retreats."


http://sanpatwater.com/images/West%20Portland%20tank%20delivered.jpg (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=municipal+water+storage+tanks&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=fY8IAg5JThM01M&tbnid=OoKp0WVHz584iM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsanpatwater.com%2Fnews6.8.10.php&ei=JgvpUe_nErL64AO-lYCQCQ&bvm=bv.49478099,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNFn3rBoKTSi3wjZXpGhCjmMYXjMaA&ust=1374312730296933)

Ummmm.... can i borrow some "random parts"... puhleeze?

Rick
07-19-2013, 09:18 AM
I've got some old hongs I'll send you.

gryffynklm
07-19-2013, 09:42 AM
You can make a quilt with those hongs.
http://www.quiltsbycts.com/assets/images/miscellaneous058.jpg

crashdive123
07-19-2013, 01:31 PM
One big enough to cover that tank.


He has a lot of hongs.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 01:24 PM
I already know all I need to know about rainwater collection systems despite your incoherent post on the subject. If these systems are your business you really need to work on your pitch and be a whole lot more up front about your motives.

well, we don't offer anything for sale, just tons of free information about us living off the grid for 13 years, now. I thought free instructions for building a rain catchment tank was relevant to this forum. I will refrain from posting URLs in the future. My motive was to share information with this forum on a topic I feel very strongly about.

Sorry for offending, folks.

For those that want more information about this:
We built our tanks from scratch, basically using heavy sheet metal forming a cylinder and then dropping in a potable liner. We then make a cap of lightweight concrete for the roof. The total cost is about $2,000 for a 6,000 gallon tank. We hire high school kids to help put it together, and that is included in the cost.

Since I made this post, we received more rain, a total of 7" in 3 days. That translates to 11,000 gallons of water in our tanks. Since rain catchment is the sole source of water for our homestead, it is a big deal for us.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 01:26 PM
I would have but they registered the 8th and didn't spam until the 18th. So I'm going with the, "Oops, I didn't know 'bout that", story.
I honestly didn't know that posting a relevant url that gives clear and free instructions on how to build an inexpensive water tank was off limits or against the rules. I figured relevant sources were ok. But, don't worry, I won't be posting any links on this forum, again.

again, sorry for offending you guys, it won't happen again.

welderguy
07-20-2013, 01:29 PM
I honestly didn't know that posting a relevant url that gives clear and free instructions on how to build an inexpensive water tank was off limits or against the rules. But, don't worry, I won't be posting any links on this forum, again.

again, sorry for offending you guys, it won't happen again.

links are fine as long as there not spam. If that wasnt the intention then you have nothing to worry about.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 01:40 PM
links are fine as long as there not spam. If that wasnt the intention then you have nothing to worry about.
I guess spam is different for everyone, but to me, linking to a page that doesn't sell anything and gives instructions for making a rainwater tank is relevant and not spam.

But, apparently, that's not the case, here. Spam seems to be defined as any link to a website/blog maintained by the OP. That's fine, I'm not here to offend anyone, I just didn't know I couldn't link to my site, cause that's where the relevant information was. I shared it in case anyone wanted to know how we built our catchment tank.

Obviously, folks didn't like that, so I won't be doing it anymore.

welderguy
07-20-2013, 01:43 PM
I guess spam is different for everyone, but to me, linking to a page that doesn't sell anything and gives instructions for making a rainwater tank is relevant and not spam.

But, apparently, that's not the case, here. Spam seems to be defined as any link to a website/blog maintained by the OP. That's fine, I'm not here to offend anyone, I just didn't know I couldn't link to my site, cause that's where the relevant information was. I shared it in case anyone wanted to know how we built our catchment tank.



Obviously, folks didn't like that, so I won't be doing it anymore.
What is perfectly fine is you can put your website in your signature, that way it is there all the time. and that is acceptable to everyone.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 01:47 PM
What is perfectly fine is you can put your website in your signature, that way it is there all the time. and that is acceptable to everyone.
yeah, that's cool. My site has hundreds of pages and tons of how-tos, so it is a bit inconvenient for someone that wants to jump straight to the relevant information.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 02:05 PM
Interesting information....as you profile doesn't state where you are, I assuming this is an important aspect of your life style and preps.....or Business?

I do use a small water collection system for a remote shower and wash station....and there is a Straw bale off grid home a 1/2 mile away....am some what versed in principal.
Mother Nature seems to not play fair all the time?....too much or too little?

We are in the Chihuahuan desert, and only get rain from July through October. We have no other water source than rain catchment on our property. So, yes, it is a big deal for us, and through many years of buying tanks, building tanks from several materials, we've got it down to the cheapest, long lasting water tank you can put together in this size range. If folks have access to old silos, they could drop a liner into one of those, and possible get a big catchment tank for really cheap.

We just went from January to July without much rain, and then all of a sudden, 7" in the last 3 days. So yeah, it's either too much or not enough! :)

Rick
07-20-2013, 04:35 PM
It's spelled out in the forum rules.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?6074-Forum-Rules-amp-Staff

If you post links then 6 months down the road decide to start advertising and selling equipment your links are still on the forum. To prevent that and to keep folks from joining just to post links we have the no link policy. You are welcome to post links to other sites you don't have an interest in or cut and past the relevant information from your site to here. You just can't post the link.

We like to razz each other a bit too.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 05:22 PM
cut and past the relevant information from your site to here. You just can't post the link.
wait, what?
so, someone can copy and paste stuff from copyrighted material and not include a link to the source, and that's ok? but linking to a real-life relevant page is not ok?

Seems kinda backwards. I would think you would want to encourage people to link to sources and credible information.


If you post links then 6 months down the road decide to start advertising and selling equipment your links are still on the forum. well, at that point, it could be considered spam, but until then, it wouldn't be spam, right? But that can go for any link, really, web sites change all the time.

I understand what you are saying about not wanting spam, and I support that, but saying a link to the OP's site is automatically spam is somewhat ridiculous. Certainly, if a link/resource is on-topic and provides a genuine FREE benefit to the topic at hand, it can't be considered spam. It just seems like a short-sighted policy that limits beneficial information to your members.

I won't post any urls on here, so I don't offend anyone else, but I think you should review your policy a bit concerning what you label as "spam".

Ken
07-20-2013, 05:37 PM
I understand what you are saying......

Vela, have you ever called for a pizza delivery?

Ken
07-20-2013, 05:55 PM
Ummmm.... can i borrow some "random parts"... puhleeze?

Well, I still have those two jet engines in the corner and that box of gold leaf on the shelf. And there's that centrifuge still in the box and that crate full of electronic parts that got delivered to the house by mistake last year. And those chemicals. All of those chemicals.....

Rick
07-20-2013, 05:59 PM
If you post from your own material then it's not copyright infringement so no link is required. If you don't like the rules then don't participate. Simply really.

Ken
07-20-2013, 06:02 PM
If you post from your own material then it's not copyright infringement so no link is required. If you don't like the rules then don't participate. Simply really.

I still want to know if he's ever called for a pizza delivery.

crashdive123
07-20-2013, 06:48 PM
Velacreations - let me explain the reason for the rule. When you said
well, at that point, it could be considered spam, but until then, it wouldn't be spam, right? you are correct. The problem then becomes deleting those links. They all have to be tracked down one at a time and that can range from extremely difficult to all but impossible.

As has been suggested - you can put a link to your info in your signature. It will then show up every time you post. If, as in the above example, it turns to something inappropriate - I can delete your signature very easily.

Not all that spam do so to make money. Some do it to generate traffic to their site. If that is a goal (not saying it is your goal) then those individuals should contact the owner of this site to inquire about advertising.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 07:58 PM
can I link to a photo gallery on Flickr? It's not my site, but has some of my content there, especially for something like this water cistern. It is a pain to have to go through the photos and reupload to the thread, but it would be easy to do a link

Can I link to the whole set of photos like this (delete if inappropriate):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/velacreations/sets/72157631466249540/

and can I read in some like this:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8315/8010956137_c876795ed3_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8318/8010972336_d5d4f8f284_z.jpg

crashdive123
07-20-2013, 08:14 PM
Yes. Photos and videos are OK.

velacreations
07-20-2013, 08:31 PM
Yes. Photos and videos are OK.
ok, cool, thanks

That's the link to the full photo gallery of how we build our tanks. The cost is low for the amount of gallons you can store, and if you cut off the light and include a potable liner, you can have a decent water supply, even in areas that don't get rain very often (like us).

It's a simple process, you level an area with compacted sand. Put down a base of bricks or something for the metal walls to sit on. Assemble your walls, and drop in a liner (we use vinyl billboard tarps for an under layer. We include a seat for the roof to sit on, basically angle iron. For the roof, it is 3/4" PVC to form a dome. We cover this with a billboard tarp and orchard netting. Then goes on the latex concrete coating, first pure cement+acrylic, then 2 coats with sand.

Drop in your fittings, and you're ready to go.

It's a simple way to build a tank and cost us under $2K for a bit over 6,000 gallons (including labor). In our climate and roof size, that takes about 6 inches of rain to fill.

In our area, the black poly tanks are about $600 for 1,000 gallons.

Concrete cisterns can be made, but the cost will be higher, mainly because of the floor pour. We can put one of these tanks up in a week or 2.

We have 2 of these tanks, and then a barn tank that is square. It doesn't have a roof yet, but we used a different liner, it's a fish-safe EPDM pond liner. It's even cheaper, for watering gardens or animals.

Here's the final thing:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8179210425_6f83fcff59_z.jpg

velacreations
07-20-2013, 08:33 PM
I still want to know if he's ever called for a pizza delivery.

not in about 15 years. Sometimes I wish I could, but the closest place is about 2 hours away, and I don't think they deliver to the mountains.

intothenew
07-20-2013, 10:36 PM
I still want to know if he's ever called for a pizza delivery.

Sodium, I've been tryin' to tell ya'. It's especially bad when water is at a premium.


..............http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8179210425_6f83fcff59_z.jpg

Maybe I'm missing it, but you are not collecting from the roof of the containment, is that intentional? We're talkin' pints here, right?

velacreations
07-21-2013, 12:20 AM
Maybe I'm missing it, but you are not collecting from the roof of the containment, is that intentional? We're talkin' pints here, right?

yeah, we do, the roof sits on the angle iron inside the rim of the walls. It catches about 120 gallons per inch of rain. Not a whole lot, but still something.

hunter63
07-21-2013, 11:37 AM
Well I'm glad we got the details straightened out, the ability to see , hear about specific information is always valuable.
The rub comes when people join up just to push a product....then move on with a "No I don't answer questions, it's all on our site....so go to www whatever..."

My little camper/shed/camp just used a roof, gutter barrels system , mostly for showers and washing up....still works well.

Fact is there is 800ft of river frontage, a "stock well", 27 ft. driven point with hand pump,....and now a 190ft cased state inspected and legal pump/bury tank system/plumbing that drain back for winter.

The straw bale, off grid home up on the ridge, found that a 650 to 1200 ft well costly so uses a roof collection system and a 3000 gal cistern that is in a lower lever in the house...and seems to have enough mass that doesn't freeze.
Does have a solar heater/circulation pump that runs and helps with possible problems....but winter freeze up generally is a problem in Wisconsin....if you don't deal with it.

Is sediment and purification a problem.........I do a barrel flush and use chlorine....to treat, but is only 100 gal capacity.
I also use a filter when pumping form catchment barrel to use barrel....they are separate.....and that helps.

So any way, Welcome.

velacreations
07-21-2013, 12:04 PM
Is sediment and purification a problem.........I do a barrel flush and use chlorine....to treat, but is only 100 gal capacity.
I think it depends on your local climate and setup. We don't get a lot of dust or birds, here, but other people do. We also don't have any trees around the house, and that helps a bit, too.

We go through a first flush, and then have a sediment and charcoal filter in the house. Also, we have a self-cleaning overflow, which is basically a pipe that picks up sediment fromt he bottom of the tank whenever it overflows.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/velacreations/sets/72157630019884153/

Here's a photo of that:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8151/7166907985_426a0c47df.jpg

Winter
07-21-2013, 01:00 PM
Looks alot better then my setup. Too bad I'm too poor to rebuild mine. Tank liners up here run $2000. I'll have too touch base with you on the liners here soon.

Thanks for the info and welcome to WSF.

velacreations
07-21-2013, 01:59 PM
Looks alot better then my setup. Too bad I'm too poor to rebuild mine. Tank liners up here run $2000. I'll have too touch base with you on the liners here soon.

you might look at pond liners for irrigation/animal water. We have bought potable tank liners ($800 shipped for 6,000 gallons) and EPDM pond liners for tanks that don't go tot the house supply. The EPDM liners are a lot cheaper, and many online services offer shipping.

It may not come out cheaper, but it would be worth looking into.

hunter63
07-21-2013, 03:14 PM
My first flush is just a pipe extension with a weep hole....works pretty well.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/PICT0082.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/PICT0082.jpg.html)

Strangely enough debris does build up and collects on the gutter screen....but seem to filter out a lot of dirt like an earth filter.

Small but effective for its use....shower curtains close off the porch for the shower, had a solar collector, but was small an nor very effective so added a electric water heater, fed with 12 volt sprayer pump, w/pressure switch.

Gives ya 2-1/2 gal of hot water.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/PICT0065.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/PICT0065.jpg.html)

Take as long of a shower as you want.....BUT you will have 2-1/2 gal. of hot water......LOL