U.S. Policy Backfires - AGAIN

[Ken]

This is what happens when we ignore the obvious.


"How exactly did the U.S. come to be seen by Egyptian secularists and liberals as the handmaiden of a cultish fundamentalist political party whose motto includes this heartening sentiment: “Jihad is our way, and dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope”?"

How Did the U.S. Lose the Egyptian People?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-02/how-did-the-u-s-lose-the-egyptian-people-.html

[Rick]

I've read quite a bit about this over the past couple of weeks. It's a head scratcher for sure. What were we thinking? We just don't seem to be very savvy these days. Got to the party way late in Syria, let things get out of hand in Egypt. Karzai has nearly mooned us from his office. The Taliban have set up house keeping in Qatar. Turkey is simmering as we speak. And the list goes on. Foreign policy seems to be pretty foreign to our leaders these days.

[Cast-Iron]

We're not the economic superpower that we once were. We have wasted trillions of dollars to protect the special interests of the powerful lobbyist cartels in Washington. Serving their needs over the those of the American public. We are militarily all bark and very little bite (conventionally speaking anyways) and at the rate we're racking up debt I could see that coming to an end all too soon. It's not that we don't have the caliber of personnel or technology, we just can no longer afford it. We've wasted our reserves and have no spare capacity. The Arabs get it. The Chinese too. Russia has been there, done that. Heck even old Hugo Chavez is probably laughing his a$$ off around a pretty hot fire about now. I believe Obama is only pulling out of Afghanistan because we can't afford to continue a conventional war on terrorism. Why do you think they fear these returning soldiers? I think it may be because they can't even afford to deliver the benefits these returning men and women have earned in the service of our country. Oh but we can still afford to spend $7.1 billion+ for African electrical infrastructure? Morons and buffoons, all of them!

[Sourdough]

I've read quite a bit about this over the past couple of weeks. It's a head scratcher for sure. What were we thinking? We just don't seem to be very savvy these days. Got to the party way late in Syria, let things get out of hand in Egypt. Karzai has nearly mooned us from his office. The Taliban have set up house keeping in Qatar. Turkey is simmering as we speak. And the list goes on. Foreign policy seems to be pretty foreign to our leaders these days.


Please SEE my signature......................................... ..:thumbdown:

[BENESSE]

I've read quite a bit about this over the past couple of weeks. It's a head scratcher for sure. What were we thinking? We just don't seem to be very savvy these days.

These days? THESE days?! Why, the last days we were savvy was picking sides in WW2. Went down hill from there with no correction in sight.

Got to the party way late in Syria, let things get out of hand in Egypt. Karzai has nearly mooned us from his office. The Taliban have set up house keeping in Qatar. Turkey is simmering as we speak. And the list goes on. Foreign policy seems to be pretty foreign to our leaders these days.

If I were a betting person, I'd bet opposite of US choices every time. Something happened through different administrations...some serious flaw in thinking for which we're all paying the price and will be for a long time.

[bacpacker]

My opinion is that all this crap in the mid east for the past 5-6 years is intentional. First trip Obummer took was to Egypt and the mid east. He made all kinds of promises and from the looks of things got the ball rolling for all this crap to happen. Hard to see things any other way.

[Rick]

It's not that any of this is new. We've been screwing up foreign policy for decades. It's not one party or just this administration. The problem is we don't THINK like the rest of the world. I have a lot of respect for Gen. Schwarzkopf but even he admitted that he erred when he gave Iraq permission to fly helicopters after the first Gulf War. He didn't THINK like an Iraqi. That cost lives. There are not very many folks in this world that actually have a good handle on foreign policy. We've had a few since we left the Founding Fathers. Seward, Bacon, Stimson and maybe Rusk. Senator Dirkson in my book. But that's about the lot of 'em. Britain has certainly had a few but no others that I can think of. We go into all these situations thinking like Americans, like we're dealing with Americans and we're not.

There is a huge difference between a politician and a statesman. Here's your political science lesson for the day. The four qualities of a statesman.



A bedrock of principles
A moral compass
A vision
The ability to build a consensus to achieve that vision

[BENESSE]

Couldn't agree more, Rick.
We are still adhering to the golden rule principle, long after we lost the gold.

[Rick]

And the rules.

[bacpacker]

It's not that any of this is new. We've been screwing up foreign policy for decades. It's not one party or just this administration. The problem is we don't THINK like the rest of the world. I have a lot of respect for Gen. Schwarzkopf but even he admitted that he erred when he gave Iraq permission to fly helicopters after the first Gulf War. He didn't THINK like an Iraqi. That cost lives. There are not very many folks in this world that actually have a good handle on foreign policy. We've had a few since we left the Founding Fathers. Seward, Bacon, Stimson and maybe Rusk. Senator Dirkson in my book. But that's about the lot of 'em. Britain has certainly had a few but no others that I can think of. We go into all these situations thinking like Americans, like we're dealing with Americans and we're not.

There is a huge difference between a politician and a statesman. Here's your political science lesson for the day. The four qualities of a statesman.



A bedrock of principles

A moral compass
A vision
The ability to build a consensus to achieve that vision



Exactly right! How many political figures have we had in the last 50 years that had even one of these qualities?

[letslearntogether47]

Exactly right! How many political figures have we had in the last 50 years that had even one of these qualities?

I can only think of one.

[Ken]

I can only think of one.

Does his last name begin with an "R?"

[letslearntogether47]

Does his last name begin with an "R?"

Yes,first term.
I'll be 50 next week so I haven't been brain washed by the public school teachers.lol

[Cast-Iron]

Yes,first term.
I'll be 50 next week so I haven't been brain washed by the public school teachers.lol

Couldn't agree more about Pres. "R", may he rest in eternal peace.

Congrats on the upcoming half-century milestone and may I be the first to welcome you to the "Top of the Hill Club"!

[Ken]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VJk-r3dRFfY/UBUtwgEKv6I/AAAAAAAABO8/AMSjC3xh454/s1600/REAGAN+ON+RUSHMORE--final+low+res+for+site.jpg (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=reagan+on+mt+rushmore&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=9xmZJuan1mNf-M&tbnid=zT8Ucs-r6Ir_bM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sodahead.com%2Funited-states%2Fronald-reagan-for-mount-rushmore%2Fquestion-3308875%2F&ei=i0bUUYHAC9GC0QGYq4GwCw&bvm=bv.48705608,d.dmQ&psig=AFQjCNH46bHxLL2OwK-uL3m70gixZGSQbA&ust=1372952436713088)

[Rick]

You guys must be talking about President Rameriz.

Ya'll don't remember Iran Contra, the pocket veto of the Whistleblower's Act, all those goofy appointments (remember Bork or Rumsfield or McFarland? Jeeese). How about firing all the air traffic controllers because they went on strike?

Yeah, you must be talkin' about President Rameriz.

[crashdive123]

For the record - Bork would have made a great Supreme Court Justice IMO.

Was holding the air traffic controller's union (PATCO) accountable for violating the no strike clause of their contract such a bad thing?

[Ken]

For the record - Ken would have made a great Supreme Court Justice IMO.

Thank you, Crash. :innocent:

[crashdive123]

Whatchu talking about Ken?

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/pCrjLVSapII/hqdefault.jpg

[Ken]

Whatchu talking about Ken?

Pffffft. I won't be dismissing any of YOUR parking tickets. :sneaky2:

[Rick]

Whether Bork would have been good or bad was a mute point. His nomination was doomed from the start (remember the fit that Ted Kennedy threw and that whole Biden Report fiasco?) Then after all that the White House said and did nothing. I thought it was little more than a grand fart on Reagan's part. He should have seen it coming or at the least went to bat for his nominee. But Nooooooooo! Poor Bork was left flopping on his own like a fish at the end of a hook.

As for the air traffic controllers. I didn't have a problem making them accountable to their contract but to fire them all at once?

"Houston, Delta 265 Heavy on approach."
Silence
"Houston, Delta 265."
Silence
"Uh, anybody home?"
Janitor keys mic, "No hablo ingles".

[Ken]

.....remember the fit that Ted Kennedy threw and that whole Biden Report fiasco?

Probably just another one of his drunken stupors.

Remind me to tell you what it's like to TRY to swim from Chappaquiddick Island to Edgartown when the current is moving through, as it almost ALWAYS is. :sneaky2:

[Rick]

Buhahahahahahaha.

[Ken]

Let me get this straight.... Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi, the guy who granted HIMSELF sweeping dictatorial powers after a sham election, the man who suspended the lower chamber of the Egyptian legislature, the leader of the radical anti-American jihadist Muslim Brotherhood seeking to impose Sharia Law over that nation, gets ousted by a military committed to establishing a free secular democratic government in Egypt.....

And now, on Independence Day, OUR administration, and members of OUR Congress, are voicing concern about those events and contemplating cancellation of foreign aid to Egypt.

I can conclude one thing and one thing only: Our government is now publically, knowingly and intentionally supporting radical Muslim jihadist governments and promoting the establishment of Sharia Law in foreign countries and opposing free, peaceful, democratic, secular governments.

THE IDIOTS RUNNING OUR GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INDICTED, TRIED, CONVICTED, AND LINED UP IN FRONT OF A FIRING SQUAD!

Edward Snowden is not a traitor, but members of our administration and Congress certainly are!

[BENESSE]

We've been doing it for years, Ken. Why the long face, now?

[LowKey]

It wasn't until today they openly admitted it.

But maybe more to the point this administration is decrying the Military stepping in. Not something they want to condone in any way, shape, or form.

[Rick]

Morsi was elected by the Egyptians in what the international community declared an honest election. He was Egypt's first democratically elected president. The fact that he acted like a hooligan once in office is a matter for the Egyptian's to deal with but we obviously have a lot at stake too. The fact there was a military coup ousting a democratically elected president of a country, any country, should concern everyone. If Egypt doesn't quickly get their house in order we should withhold our aid to them. The Suez Canal as well as their oil and their strategic location in the Middle East should concern all of us. I think you have this one backwards, Ken. The government should be worried and should decry the military take over.

[Ken]

Morsi was elected by the Egyptians in what the international community declared an honest election. He was Egypt's first democratically elected president. The fact that he acted like a hooligan once in office is a matter for the Egyptian's to deal with......


Then why are we arming radical jihadist rebels in Syria to fight a military that is OBEYING the orders of the government of Bashar Hafez al-Assad?


If our duly elected president took office and

.....almost immediately disbanded Congress, and

.....ignored decisions of the Supreme Court, and

.....forced a new Constitution upon us, and

.....enforced his religious beliefs with the authority of law, and

.....called upon his political supporters to resort to force to defend his authority

I would HOPE that our military would step up and take back our nation and reinstate democracy.

Egyptians aren't removing a democratically elected president. They're removing a radical Islamic jihadist Sharia-Law supporting dictator who has usurped the constitution and law of their nation.

[BENESSE]

Egyptians aren't removing a democratically elected president. They're removing a radical Islamic jihadist Sharia-Law supporting dictator who has usurped the constitution and law of their nation.

Absolutely right, Ken...and they should have the right to do so without outside interference.
It's interference that ultimately always always comes to bite you.

[Rick]

Because al-Assad was not elected in an open and democratic election. He ran unopposed as the heir to his father's rule. His human rights violations are pretty well known as is his hand in foreign assassinations and support of terrorism.

None of that is true in Egypt. If all the things you outlined were to occur here I sure wouldn't want the military to step in. We would simply do as we did with Nixon. Use the Constitutional process to remove him. Like it or not Egypt does have a constitution. One that was signed into law last year. It also has impeachment proceedings. I'm not sure why they aren't following it.

http://niviensaleh.info/constitution-egypt-2012-translation/

By the way, they are removing both.

[Ken]

Rick, under the scenario I gave, there wouldn't be a Congress to begin impeachment proceedings.