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awfoxden
03-26-2008, 04:10 PM
from what little i saw on what this movie was about i was thinking it would be something to do with living the dream only a few such as wild woman has acomplished. getting into the wild and making a good life out of it. i was expecting some home steading and survival outdoor type, although i knew it wasn't a documentory.

i just watched this movie last night. i think this guy was a, what term do you guys use? a wilderness numpty? as the movie progressed i didn't think he would make it out of alaska alive. what a moron. by the way - finding and living in someone elses cabin "magic bus" isn't exactly what i would think of as getting away from it all and making your own way. it's a tragedy, but what was he thinking? mother nature is not forgiving or romantic. being essentually unprepared for bush life this guy was asking to die of starvation. that moose he shot should have easily got him through the summer if he knew what to do with the meat once shot. instead he ruined most and the rest was taken by nature.

so is there any good movies or documenteries out there for homesteading and outdoor survival type that you guys would recomend - both informational and for enjoyment of watching.

trax
03-26-2008, 04:38 PM
I couldn't agree more, but on the flip side a lot of people can watch it and say, "well then, don't do things that way" I watched it and thought "well there's about an hour and a half of my life that I can't get back"

Sarge47
03-26-2008, 04:43 PM
from what little i saw on what this movie was about i was thinking it would be something to do with living the dream only a few such as wild woman has acomplished. getting into the wild and making a good life out of it. i was expecting some home steading and survival outdoor type, although i knew it wasn't a documentory.

i just watched this movie last night. i think this guy was a, what term do you guys use? a wilderness numpty? as the movie progressed i didn't think he would make it out of alaska alive. what a moron. by the way - finding and living in someone elses cabin "magic bus" isn't exactly what i would think of as getting away from it all and making your own way. it's a tragedy, but what was he thinking? mother nature is not forgiving or romantic. being essentually unprepared for bush life this guy was asking to die of starvation. that moose he shot should have easily got him through the summer if he knew what to do with the meat once shot. instead he ruined most and the rest was taken by nature.

so is there any good movies or documenteries out there for homesteading and outdoor survival type that you guys would recomend - both informational and for enjoyment of watching.

1st, you should read the book that the movie; "Into The Wild" was based on as it goes into much more detail. Next, Check out "Alone In The Wilderness", the story of Dick Poerenke.(Hope I spelled that right.) It's great! More later.:cool:

Stony
03-26-2008, 05:25 PM
yes, i also say read the book!
i did so a few years ago and know already then that some bozo will make a movie out of it, butchering it badly.
(i won't watch it)
in the book they say the boones found where from a caribou and not a moose.

did they use a .22 in the movie -as he did in the book?

zaebra
03-26-2008, 05:34 PM
i agree about reading the book. it's not a survivalist story, it's a story about a young idealist who drops everything to try to find himself by journeying "into the wild". it's a personal journey story, not a survival how-to.

but yes, he gets pretty much everything wrong. :)

trax
03-26-2008, 05:37 PM
why ask questions about a movie that you won't watch? Anyway, that's what he told one person in the story that he'd be taking and he blasts away at the moose with about six or seven shots I think.

So, if he let an entire caribou go to waste instead of letting an entire moose go to waste and then eats some toxic root because he's starving, does it make him less dead? The guy in the movie clearly didn't know what he was doing. It wasn't just the hunting, he really didn't know what he was doing.

Aurelius95
03-26-2008, 05:48 PM
I watched the movie the other day, but I read the book last summer. National Geographic Adventure magazine did a piece on the movie/book last year. Sean Penn bought the rights to the film back in the 90's, but his family didn't want the movie made. Not sure why they relented, because they came out as quite dysfunctional.I don't know if the author, Jon Krakauer, was being sympathetic to the kid, but he didn't try to paint him as an idiot. My take on all of it:

Chris McCandless, aka Alexander Supertramp, was looking for a lot more than just the wilderness. He totally abandoned his previous life and completely cut himself off from his family, and in general, modern living. It was as if everything that we do in life (modern living, American culture) was a sickness he needed to rid himself of. He gave away all his money, spurned working for a living, and wanted to live for himself, all along sacrificing modern convenience by replacing it with mental and physical self-flagellation.

For the last 2 years of his life, he lived as a homeless man with just his books, intellect and short-lived friendships to stimulate him. He was unprepared to head into the Alaskan wilderness. He brought 10 pounds of rice, a book on edible plants, a .22 rifle, sleeping bag and some other minimal necessities. He didn't have a compass or a map. And the kicker is, at least according to the book, is that a mile from where he crossed the river was a ranger basket for crossing during high water. A map would have saved his life!

Anyway, enough of the rant. Parts of what he did were admirable, but mostly, his overwhelming foolishness cost him his life.

trax
03-26-2008, 05:54 PM
A well done synopsis aurelius, thank you. He should have joined a monastery

canid
03-26-2008, 06:01 PM
i don't know why you refer to him as the guy in the movie, when he was an actual person, but i have to make this point. he knew what he was doing for two years before he went to alaska. he wasn't well enough prepared for the environment he went to live in, but he seemed to have known that going in. that was his choice.

as for eating a toxic root, it was a plant documented to be edible and long used for food. it is still speculative whether the seeds of the root he had been eating [which are nowhere mentioned to be toxic] where what killed him. they still aren't known to be toxic. the fact is that even prolonged illness from the weather could easily have done the same.

no matter how prepred you are, circumstances can always conspire to kill you.

i highly agree with aurelius; in this case a map would have saved his life. did he want one?

Aurelius95
03-26-2008, 06:05 PM
A well done synopsis aurelius, thank you. He should have joined a monastery

LOL Trax!

Did anybody happen to read Into Thin Air- another Jon Krakauer book? It was about a fiasco that occurred on Mt. Everest in 1996 where 8 people died in a major FUBAR moment. Anyway, in my opinion, it's worth a read to get his take on the events.

trax
03-26-2008, 06:08 PM
I referred to the 'guy in the movie' in comparison to whatever the book might have said, having never read the book. I don't believe for one second that circumstances conspire to kill a person. Poor planning and lack of skills are only circumstances because they're self-inflicted circumstances.

canid
03-26-2008, 06:11 PM
great book aswell.

now my turn, has anybody read any of his Outside articles? i've not had the chance.

trax: i get you there. as for the circumstnces, you can never prepare for everything, and you aren't under obligation to try. people are welcome to make mistakes, even fatal ones.

Sourdough
03-26-2008, 08:00 PM
Into the wild...is not about the wild.
The river swelling, is a symbol representing all of the emotions, the people he met, the feelings, all surging back and flooding him (hence the urge to go back to them)...crossing the river was never part of "the plan".
Him misreading the name of plants, is us misreading each-other.
Into the wild...is not about the wild.

Nothing is what it appears, All real "original" experience ends very early in life, most of what we call real is a mind loop of some similar earlier event. We live in a illusion of symbols of yesterdays. Most humans would pay any price, even death for "Real Original Experience" as an adult, and may do just that.

trax
03-26-2008, 08:11 PM
So the guy isn't real dead?

Sourdough
03-26-2008, 08:21 PM
Are you really alive, if so how do you know, and who is the you who is doing the "KNOWING".......??????? And where is your "MIND". The mind is an illusion. You will not find a body part called "MIND". You think it is something that your brain does or is part of the brain. But there is no mind. Who are you really, and who is the you who is doing the knowing. Are you the Experience of knowing or are you the observer of the one doing the knowing.....????:)

trax
03-26-2008, 08:25 PM
OK...1. yes 2. cuz I said so 3. me

don't go getting all zen or tao on my azz bud, you been talkin' to the pine trees and squirrels too long up there.

Sourdough
03-26-2008, 08:34 PM
I have learned a great deal from conversations with pine trees, and rocks.

trax
03-26-2008, 08:36 PM
I have learned a great deal from conversations with pine trees, and rocks.

Me too,actually, one of the most important things the trees taught me was "don't go all zen or tao on peoples' azzes" I remember that one really good. And a rock told me once, "pick me up and throw me at that guy. He'll decided if he's alive or not when he sees me coming" Yep, that was a good one alright.

Sourdough
03-26-2008, 08:54 PM
Talked to some very old rocks in Oaxaca, Mexico.

trax
03-26-2008, 09:09 PM
OK, I'll quit kidding around about it for a moment. Yes, rocks do have a lot of wisdom and it is possible to get them to share it. That's it, back to being a goof for me now.

BraggSurvivor
03-26-2008, 09:36 PM
I havent laughed that hard in a long long time. You guys crack me up! :D:D

I heading outside to find a frikken rock right now!

trax
03-26-2008, 09:39 PM
I havent laughed that hard in a long long time. You guys crack me up! :D:D

I heading outside to find a frikken rock right now!

(glancing over my shoulder at my faithful sidekick, Nora Squirrel)

*Our work is done here Nora, it's time to move on!*

(William Tell overture rising in the background, now I have to find a sundown to ride off into)

Ridge Wolf
03-26-2008, 10:34 PM
1st, you should read the book that the movie; "Into The Wild" was based on as it goes into much more detail. Next, Check out "Alone In The Wilderness", the story of Dick Poerenke.(Hope I spelled that right.) It's great! More later.:cool:

Richard Proenneke.. 'One Man's Wilderness - An Alaskan Odyssey' Sam Keith author. :D

Sourdough
03-26-2008, 10:40 PM
One of the sheep on the southern Island of New Zealand, Told one who would hear, that the young man trying to take-off on his very first para-sailing experience; that he was going to crash into the Yellow House with the large chimney. The Yellow House was a good mile away, and way beyond the landing field. The Para'sail instructor said, "that it was not possable".

At the hospital everyone, including the Para-sail instructor, but mostly the young man wished they had lessened to the words of wisdom. And none of the five humans who had been warned 35 minutes "BE FOR" takeoff ever understood what had happened, and all privately prayed that it would never, ever happen again.

The one who would hear had never done drugs, has never done drugs, and had, had one beer three days be for this strange unexplainable occurrence.

It is just a story..........(unless you were the one who would hear, or unless you were the one who would not hear)

Ridge Wolf
03-26-2008, 10:51 PM
One of the sheep on the southern Island of New Zealand, Told one who would hear, that the young man trying to take-off on his very first para-sailing experience; that he was going to crash into the Yellow House with the large chimney. The Yellow House was a good mile away, and way beyond the landing field. The Para'sail instructor said, "that it was not possable".

At the hospital everyone, including the Para-sail instructor, but mostly the young man wished they had lessened to the words of wisdom. And none of the five humans who had been warned 35 minutes "BE FOR" takeoff ever understood what had happened, and all privately prayed that it would never, ever happen again.

The one who would hear had never done drugs, has never done drugs, and had, had one beer three days be for this strange unexplainable occurrence.

It is just a story..........(unless you were the one who would hear, or unless you were the one who would not hear)

And they should hear this... that survival is not a game.. Listen to the wisdom of experience.

Rick
03-27-2008, 08:37 AM
Personally, I think rocks rock. Trees, not so much. They sort of sway but that's still good.

Remy - The last time my mouth was deformed it took several stitches to close it up. And yes, in the end, it hurt me.

Hopeak - I think that whole thing about the sheep on the hill is just a cover story. But you keep telling, Bro. We'll believe you. (wink). I won't ask why you wound up in the hospital. But I'm sure it was painful.

Sourdough
03-27-2008, 09:27 AM
I did not end up in the hospital, The young man who crashed into the chimney on the Yellow House ended in the hospital.

Stony
03-27-2008, 10:38 AM
how come that almost every thread gets deluded by the same people with
the same b.s.?
don't they have a life away from their pc's and outside their trailer parks?

trax
03-27-2008, 10:49 AM
how come that almost every thread gets deluded by the same people with
the same b.s.?
don't they have a life away from their pc's and outside their trailer parks?

What are you doing here if you don't like what you're reading?

Sourdough
03-27-2008, 11:39 AM
how come that almost every thread gets deluded by the same people with
the same b.s.?
don't they have a life away from their pc's and outside their trailer parks?


Stony, are you stoneyed..........are you saying you are deluded...? Are you saying that a Bull had a rectal eruption....in your trailer court...? I guess some stones communicate more clearly than others. Just to clear I live in a cabin by two creeks, in Alaska. What is it you want to communicate?

Rick
03-27-2008, 11:47 AM
Pot, kettle. Pot, kettle. Pot, kettle. Get my drift?

BraggSurvivor
03-27-2008, 11:50 AM
how come that almost every thread gets deluded by the same people with
the same b.s.?
don't they have a life away from their pc's and outside their trailer parks?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Bructer/duel.gif

Unguard you foolish swine!

"Thoust are getty too tardy."

:mad:

Sourdough
03-27-2008, 11:59 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Bructer/duel.gif

Unguard you foolish swine!

"Thoust are getty too tardy."

:mad:


"Or, Perhaps......"Thoust is getting too Bull TURDY".......:eek:

Rick
03-27-2008, 12:01 PM
He's Canadian. What do you expect?

Sourdough
03-27-2008, 12:18 PM
Ehh...............

canid
03-27-2008, 12:42 PM
comming from one who joins right in in posting BS? you tell us. for my part it's because it's a useful diversion from washing dishes, which in all honesty, can indeed wait another 10 min.

nell67
03-27-2008, 12:48 PM
how come that almost every thread gets deluded by the same people with
the same b.s.?
don't they have a life away from their pc's and outside their trailer parks?

Stoney,I guess if we were all smoking the same thing you are smoking,we would all have your point of view.

canid
03-27-2008, 12:56 PM
now if you're insinuating that recreational drug use causes a particular philosophy or oppinion i'm inclined to be offended...

/me goes back to the crack pipe.

nell67
03-27-2008, 01:27 PM
now if you're insinuating that recreational drug use causes a particular philosophy or oppinion i'm inclined to be offended...

/me goes back to the crack pipe.LOL,I didn't say recreational drugs,I said whatever.

crashdive123
03-27-2008, 01:56 PM
how come that almost every thread gets deluded by the same people with
the same b.s.?
don't they have a life away from their pc's and outside their trailer parks?

Stoney - I know you said in another thread that you come and go as you please. Thank you. You are certainly a nice diversion from the realities of day to day life. I really enjoy the way you drop in a posting bomb onto a thread, and then run away and never answer any questions about your post. (kind of defeats the purpose of the forum and conversation thing) In any event, please keep deluding the threads with your posts. The thoughtful insights that you offer us mere mortals is outstanding. Again, Thank you.

Riverrat
03-27-2008, 02:18 PM
Gotta admit, one thing about this group, it never gets boring....

canid
03-27-2008, 02:48 PM
'cept late nights and early morning. i should sleep more.

Rick
03-27-2008, 03:19 PM
A full two hours have gone by and no one jumped on me about the Canadian remark. Sheeeesh. Girly men. I expected bazookas and spears and I got.......nothing. Now I feel dejected. Left out. Out of touch. A tad incoherent. I'm even beginning to understand Stony.

trax
03-27-2008, 03:25 PM
Didn't I mention the other day about not bothering to argue with you? I can see why you understand Stoner, all his comments & your Canadian comments, I just tell myself "ah, look where it's coming from...no big"...:D

Actually I've been away for a couple of hours and I was just going to warn you to brace yourself for an azz-kickin'

Rick
03-27-2008, 03:27 PM
That's what I was lookin' for. Now I feel wanted again!!!!! Thank you.

nell67
03-27-2008, 03:29 PM
You WANT a Royal azz kickin ,eh Rick???:D

Rick
03-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Well, now. There's an offer I hadn't considered.

nell67
03-27-2008, 03:35 PM
Well, now. There's an offer I hadn't considered.

Sick,sick,sick man,guess you would want handcuffs too,eh?

nell67
03-27-2008, 03:36 PM
pink fuzzy handcuffs:rolleyes:

trax
03-27-2008, 03:41 PM
pink fuzzy handcuffs:rolleyes:

to go with your fuzzy pink slippers and cerise teddy, Rick.

nell67
03-27-2008, 03:42 PM
to go with your fuzzy pink slippers and cerise teddy, Rick.

Bad picture,thats just wrong:eek:

trax
03-27-2008, 03:44 PM
Bad picture,thats just wrong:eek:

well, it was your idea, I just extrapolated on it.

Rick
03-27-2008, 03:48 PM
Handcuffs? Hmmmm.

nell67
03-27-2008, 03:49 PM
LOL,guess I had that coming...:eek::eek:

trax
03-27-2008, 03:59 PM
You two could be making a whole different kind of move about "into the wild"

nell67
03-27-2008, 04:01 PM
You two could be making a whole different kind of move about "into the wild"
Ummm WRONG leading man there Trax:mad:

trax
03-27-2008, 04:04 PM
Hey baby, you're the one who offered him the handcuffs, I just had to choose between jealous or some other option. I went with "entrepreneurial" or possibly "opportunistic"....

Roll Camera! :D :D :D :D

nell67
03-27-2008, 04:06 PM
Hey,I didn't "offer",I said "I guess you would want",BIG difference,than an offer!:p

trax
03-27-2008, 04:12 PM
Hey,I didn't "offer",I said "I guess you would want",BIG difference,than an offer!:p

Bet Rick Jeremy thought it was an offer, now you've gone and crushed him again.

nell67
03-27-2008, 04:14 PM
A little heartbreaker I guess:D




LMAO!!!!!!!!!

Rick
03-27-2008, 04:50 PM
Tease! ......

Aurelius95
03-27-2008, 05:02 PM
I'd say things are a bit off target now, but that's just me.
:D

trax
03-27-2008, 05:05 PM
OK, we'll behave aurelius.

nell67
03-27-2008, 05:05 PM
OK, we'll behave aurelius.

Maybe next week.....

Stony
03-27-2008, 08:43 PM
the last 16 posts prove my point (of the hijacking).

beerrunner13
03-27-2008, 09:25 PM
Yes guys you got off track as soon as the *** clown posted, don't feed the trolls and they will go away.

Ridge Wolf
03-28-2008, 12:03 AM
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/angryarms.gif (http://www.smileyhut.com) Now, now pilgrims..

Alpine_Sapper
03-28-2008, 12:48 AM
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/angryarms.gif (http://www.smileyhut.com) Now, now pilgrims..

awwww, come on Ridge Wolf, I'm still waiting to see what happens in round 2!

*ding ding ding*

beerrunner13
03-28-2008, 12:53 AM
He wasn't gettin enough attention and went away or they gave him his meds. He did have a point though I think a good hat would cover it nicely and nobody would notice. :D

trax
03-28-2008, 12:23 PM
I agree with Stony...

Yep, me too. When you're right, you're right and we sure did hijack that thread, fortunately though, we're now talking about us hijacking the thread, which you know...kinda hijacks the thread since the thread is all about a movie rife with deeper meaning and a dead guy. But hey, when you hijack a thread,should you use a concerted effort to keep the newly hijacked thread on a certain subject or just let it wander off in a hundred different directions?

I remember an airliner hijacking once that kind of went really badly for the hijackers because how did it go? First they tried Cuba, Cuba turned them down, then they wanted to go to Angola but didn't have enough fuel...this hijacking stuff is something I really think I better prepare for a lot more or I'm not going to be good at it at all. Thoughts, anyone?

Alpine_Sapper
03-28-2008, 12:26 PM
. Thoughts, anyone?

Work sucks, glad it's Friday, can't wait to get home and toss the gear and the family in the car and get the f**k out of the city for a while, wonder if the dog's been taken out yet....

Oh, you meant something on topic...err...

Hijacking is like making a fire in a blizzard...Takes a lot of effort to keep your azz alive?

trax
03-28-2008, 12:32 PM
sooo, where you and the family heading Alpine? fire in a blizzard huh? sorry covered that. buzzzzzzzz still off topic, hey have you seen that movie....ah I forget what it's called now.

Alpine_Sapper
03-28-2008, 01:19 PM
sooo, where you and the family heading Alpine? fire in a blizzard huh? sorry covered that. buzzzzzzzz still off topic, hey have you seen that movie....ah I forget what it's called now.

http://tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/findadest/parks/lake_mineral_wells/

Don't have a babysitter for the weekend, so I'm taking the rug-rat. Trying to keep it kid-friendly, ya know?

I've never been to this particular park, and TDW swears by it. I figure I'll humor her and see for myself.

Movie? You mean "Eight Below"?

beerrunner13
03-28-2008, 01:34 PM
Looks like a good weekend bud enjoy

trax
03-28-2008, 05:24 PM
looks awesome, yeah, eight below that's the movie!

Alpine_Sapper
03-28-2008, 06:20 PM
Thanks guys, we plan too. :D I'm out. Enjoy the weekend fellows.

Rick
03-28-2008, 06:32 PM
And fellowettes.

nell67
03-28-2008, 06:33 PM
Thank you Rick.:D Have fun Alpine Sapper.

tunick001
04-12-2008, 02:41 PM
i just watched this movie last night. i think this guy was a, what term do you guys use? a wilderness numpty? as the movie progressed i didn't think he would make it out of alaska alive. what a moron. by the way - finding and living in someone elses cabin "magic bus" isn't exactly what i would think of as getting away from it all and making your own way. it's a tragedy, but what was he thinking? mother nature is not forgiving or romantic.


yeah the book was saying he was only miles away from these summer cabins and pretty close to a major highway and popular recreation area

Rick
04-12-2008, 04:07 PM
You can point the finger at any geographic place and the first folks that went there had their own unique set of problems to deal with. They either got very good or died, which if you think about it is a reasonable incentive to get very good.

When Illinois first started to be settled, then Indiana Territory, It was not legal to live outside of the American Bottoms and the area along the west bank of the Wabash River, across from Vincennes, Indiana.

One book puts it into pretty graphic detail:

"By proclamation, by treaty, by ordinance, and by military mission - the rest of Illinois belonged to the Indian. Moreover, any retaliation the Indiana elected to use was authorized." - Harvesttime on the Prairie by Myron D. Dillow

The Treaty of Greenville (1795) Article VI stated:

"If any citizen of the United States, or any other white person or persons, shall presume to settle upon lands now relinquished by the United States, such citizen or other person shall be out of the protection of the United States; and the Indian tribe, on whose land the settlement shall be made, may drive off the settler, or punish him in such a manner as they shall think fit; and because such settlements, made without the consent of the United States, will be injurious to them as well as to the Indian, the United States shall be at liberty to break them up and remove them and punish the settlers as they think proper, and so effect that protection of the Indian lands stipulated."

We're quick to point out that this poor guy was a sap but he's not the only one that has died in the process of trying to do what they thought was right.

ledzeppie
09-30-2008, 07:09 PM
ok i just found this thread in the search, and i gotta say, I dont think Into the wild was about survival at all. It was a story about a kid that wanted to get away from it all and experience nature at its fullest, something that you cant look down upon (IMO). It was a story that most people wont see the things that he did wrong. It was intended for a general audience not experts, just like david blaines magic specials. I watch them and see all the things that he did, but that doesnt stop it from entertaining a general audience.

(Btw into the wild is my second favourite movie.)

tacmedic
09-30-2008, 10:10 PM
I've read the book and seen the movie. Both disappointed me deeply. IMO this kid was nothing more than a spoiled brat that was trying to run away form his problems and got himself killed in the process. His only saving grace was that he didn't get anyone else killed in the process. Again, only my opinion.

huntermj
09-30-2008, 10:30 PM
IMO Supertramp was rejecting not only his parents but also the culture that he felt helped to mold his parents into what they were. abusive and neglectful. i went through a phrase similar to this but not so extreme, as i think most teenagers do. At a young age it seems that the only way to not become your parents is to be 180 degrees opposite of what they are. Living in an abusive environment during the formidable years can cause long term emotional problems. and i think Supertramp had some emotional problems. Lucky are those that grow up wanting to be just like their parents for all the right reasons.

ledzeppie
09-30-2008, 11:48 PM
I've read the book and seen the movie. Both disappointed me deeply. IMO this kid was nothing more than a spoiled brat that was trying to run away form his problems and got himself killed in the process. His only saving grace was that he didn't get anyone else killed in the process. Again, only my opinion.

if he was a spoiled brat then why did he refuse to get a free car and why does he hate materialism?

Ssgt_DimeBag
03-26-2011, 06:34 PM
This poor fella is just like the poor 41 year old that watched Survivorman excepted he read books and did the same thing.
Thinking that living in the wild or that survival is some romantic ideal is the same as these poor kids that play video games then join the arm services thinking war is some romantic adventure.When in fact all are very ugly!

oldsoldier
03-27-2011, 09:45 AM
1st, you should read the book that the movie; "Into The Wild" was based on as it goes into much more detail. Next, Check out "Alone In The Wilderness", the story of Dick Poerenke.(Hope I spelled that right.) It's great! More later.:cool:

Sarge.... Is allone in the wilderness the one written inlike 1914 the one your talking about? I looked for it on amazon and that's the only one listed. It was written by a guy named knoles or knowles or something like that?

canid
03-27-2011, 10:02 AM
OS:
Alone in the wilderness is a documentary film about Dick Proenneke: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0437806/
It is great. If that man haw lived later and come here asking about doing that, I'd have tried to dissuade him too, but I'd have been mistaken. On the other hand, he knew what he was doing and probably wouldn't have had much to ask in the first place.

randyt
03-27-2011, 10:49 AM
I've often wondered how many "supertramps" make it and the world don't hear about it. I don't know if Dick Proennoke is really in the same category. Didn't he move to the wilderness after he retired? I don't mean that as a negative, just curious.

canid
03-27-2011, 11:23 AM
yeah; for me it's not about whether it's possible, since we all know it is, but more a question of motivation, realism of goals and - to oversimplify and possibly exaggerate only a little - the feeling that somebody asking what model knife they should take is not likely nearly prepared for such an undertaking. e.g. if a person does not yet know what to do a mile from town, how can they hope to do so 30 miles or more from town.

DOGMAN
03-28-2011, 11:45 AM
I've often wondered how many "supertramps" make it and the world don't hear about it.

There are tons of guys just like Chris McCandless that "made it"....I am basically the same age as him, and throughout the early and mid-90's I lived a very similar lifestyle as him, and had lots of friends that did the same type of things. I worked around several Nat'l Parks in the west, and there were lots and lots of guys spending their time going to Grateful Dead shows, living out of tents, tipi's and cars, working as raft guides and dishwashers, and going on extended wilderness adventures. What he did was not unusual. There are still many people thoughout the west and Alaska still doing this type of thing and thriving.

randyt
03-28-2011, 05:37 PM
There are tons of guys just like Chris McCandless that "made it"....I am basically the same age as him, and throughout the early and mid-90's I lived a very similar lifestyle as him, and had lots of friends that did the same type of things. I worked around several Nat'l Parks in the west, and there were lots and lots of guys spending their time going to Grateful Dead shows, living out of tents, tipi's and cars, working as raft guides and dishwashers, and going on extended wilderness adventures. What he did was not unusual. There are still many people thoughout the west and Alaska still doing this type of thing and thriving.

that's what I figured. I have a question though, it's not meant to be negative. Did Mccandless cause his demise because he was stupid or did fate have a affect? Sometimes it don't take much to go from hero to zero and in his case it cost him his life. There are times that we all make it through by a freckle but we just don't realize how close it really came.

DOGMAN
03-28-2011, 07:37 PM
that's what I figured. I have a question though, it's not meant to be negative. Did Mccandless cause his demise because he was stupid or did fate have a affect? Sometimes it don't take much to go from hero to zero and in his case it cost him his life. There are times that we all make it through by a freckle but we just don't realize how close it really came.

I think he was a victim of his own attitude....he wasnt as stupid as much as we was too cavilier...he bought into his own BS basically and thought the basic rules of survival didnt apply tp him

canid
03-28-2011, 07:45 PM
or he was simply willing to take that risk.

DOGMAN
03-28-2011, 07:56 PM
I don't think he was willing to risk it all....if you watch the documentary "Call of the Wild" it goes into more facts about McCandless and his ill-fated journey, and his desire to be rescued. The movie "Into the Wild" ignored some important facts about him to create a mytholgical hero....

canid
03-28-2011, 08:15 PM
no base jumper ever wants to die when the 'chute fails either, but that is no the same as to say they did not consider the risk worthwhile when they took it.

i'm certainly not basing my impressions on a film, but they are of course just my suppositions. i am an irregular sprocket after all.

DOGMAN
03-28-2011, 08:49 PM
I don't think comparing McCandless to a base jumper is vaild. Base jumpers are extreme adrenalin junkies and they all know going into their activity that with the rush comes grave consequences. From what I've read and seen McCandless was not an adrenalin junky. He didn't particpate in extreme sports of any kind (that kayaking part in the movie was ficticious- in real life he did a flatwater canoe trip)....what he planned to do was not a real risky endevour in the world of risk management.

canid
03-28-2011, 08:50 PM
it killed him, didn't it?

adrenalin seeking behavior needn't be a factor in the decision to engage in risky behavior. the consequences of a disaster are identical when the consequence turns out to be death.

DOGMAN
03-28-2011, 09:51 PM
it killed him, didn't it?

adrenalin seeking behavior needn't be a factor in the decision to engage in risky behavior. the consequences of a disaster are identical when the consequence turns out to be death.

No, the activity did not kill him...and in all reality what he did was not "risky"...people have been living and thriving in that area for thousands of years- with even less then he had with him.

canid
03-28-2011, 09:58 PM
i'm still going on the evidence that he's dead.


people have been living and thriving in that area for thousands of years- with even less then he had with him.this is a logical fallacy. x number of people have been getting lost, stranded, starving, injured and freezing in Alaska for thousands of years as well. that y number of people manage to do so without accident would allow us to determine the level of risk. it does not demonstrate absence of risk.

DOGMAN
03-28-2011, 11:00 PM
But, as far as in the terms of risk management- it was not any more dangerous than being born. Being born has inherant risks (no body gets out of here alive)....its not like he was jumping off a bridge, or out of a plane. The activity he was engaged in did not kill him. If you think of it in simple terms- all he was doing was trying to exist.

canid
03-28-2011, 11:12 PM
so i can go walk in the freeway, and as long as i try to dodge the cars while i'm at it i'm not engaging in risk taking.

it won't be the activity that kills me, just a semi.

don't get me wrong; i don't think the risks he took where as great as many people have expressed, but my position is that he took those risks. the fact that he died, for one reason or another, of malnutrition in a position - one which he willingly put himself in - and could not escape it is evidence in support of that position. maybe it's my common sense speaking, but since i have trouble understanding how it would be possible for a person to enter that situation deliberately without understanding that dying was a possibility, it is my oppinion that he in fact did know that.

canid
03-28-2011, 11:15 PM
of course; when the result is that you are dead, the severity of your risk taking is academic.

DOGMAN
03-28-2011, 11:22 PM
How about this....what risks did he take?....really analyze your answers- then think about them again, and decide if the actions were risky. Nothing he did was nearly as "risky" as your walking across the Freeeway example. In reality all the guy did was hang-out at a base camp (during spring and summer) for a few months and try to supplement his rations with what he could harvest on his own.

canid
03-28-2011, 11:48 PM
the example was not to illustrate the severity of the risk but your reasoning process.

choosing to trust that 10lb of rice would tide him over until he could plant, tend and harvest crops, or forage and hunt enough food to eat for the duration of his stay was a risk. the severity of this risk in this case is self evident. it was just dangerous enough to have killed him.

crossing a river in good weather which might not be passable later was a risk. this is evident because he was unable to leave when he tried.

trusting that he would not become seriously ill at any point during his relative isolation was a risk.

trusting that he would not be mauled by a bear during this same period was a risk. trusting that he would not be killed or injured by a moos; the same.

these are all risks he took, and which i see no reason to believe he didn't understand. am i pretending they where insane risks? no; but pretending they where not risks is ridiculous. we take risks constantly, and it does not take a genius to recognize many of them. we simply take them anyway, avoiding those which we feel inclined to for whatever process of reasoning we happen to be using.

pretending they aren't risks just because they don't meet whatever arbitrary threshold; well, i suppose it just doesn't make sense to me.

klkak
03-29-2011, 12:02 AM
He was a moron and the world is a better place without him.

DOGMAN
03-29-2011, 12:19 AM
the example was not to illustrate the severity of the risk but your reasoning process.

choosing to trust that 10lb of rice would tide him over until he could plant, tend and harvest crops, or forage and hunt enough food to eat for the duration of his stay was a risk. the severity of this risk in this case is self evident. it was just dangerous enough to have killed him.

crossing a river in good weather which might not be passable later was a risk. this is evident because he was unable to leave when he tried.

trusting that he would not become seriously ill at any point during his relative isolation was a risk.

trusting that he would not be mauled by a bear during this same period was a risk. trusting that he would not be killed or injured by a moos; the same.

these are all risks he took, and which i see no reason to believe he didn't understand. am i pretending they where insane risks? no; but pretending they where not risks is ridiculous. we take risks constantly, and it does not take a genius to recognize many of them. we simply take them anyway, avoiding those which we feel inclined to for whatever process of reasoning we happen to be using.

pretending they aren't risks just because they don't meet whatever arbitrary threshold; well, i suppose it just doesn't make sense to me.

I just agree to disagree...you arent familiar with all the facts (for example- there was a cable crossing less than 1 mile from where he originally crossed the river)...and all the risks you listed arent "unnecessary risks" ....like BASE Jumping, or dodging cars on a freeway....the risks he took, were very basic....essentially just the risks of living out of town (unlike the risks associated with extreme sports) the things you listed didnt kill him...his attitude of "rescue me" was what killed him. He essentially gave up and was waiting to be rescued (as the REAL note on the door indicates, and a few of his final writings as well). When the going got tough...he quit being Alexander Supertramp and reverted back to being Chris McCandless- a suburban kid from a privalaged upbringing waiting on someone or some God to help him....

DOGMAN
03-29-2011, 12:20 AM
He was a moron and the world is a better place without him.

Now that I can agree with....

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keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab
12-24-2025, 04:04 PM
laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

yellowcab
03-23-2026, 10:03 PM
Samu (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/11618)137 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/710)спос (http://eyesvision.ru)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Петр (http://factoringfee.ru/t/810157)панс (http://filmzones.ru/t/299148)Tang (http://gadwall.ru/t/362425)Robe (http://gaffertape.ru/t/752918)Rajn (http://gageboard.ru/t/832072)Mich (http://gagrule.ru/t/336794)Биби (http://gallduct.ru/t/819311)Mont (http://galvanometric.ru/t/395838)Tesc (http://gangforeman.ru/t/349088)Санк (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/795401)иску (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1003213)
Мроч (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/281469)Edga (http://gascautery.ru/t/850697)Сабу (http://gashbucket.ru/t/439299)Henr (http://gasreturn.ru/t/850466)Trip (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/559618)чита (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/857038)Davi (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/816431)Geor (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/675790)Anne (http://geartreating.ru/t/664462)Арти (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/570187)Nina (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559199)Atla (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559865)Nive (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139756)женщ (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/139813)Anna (http://getthebounce.ru/t/138535)
Нако (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/673706)Детс (http://habituate.ru/t/759342)Gill (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/357565)*ома (http://hackworker.ru/t/678549)Даль (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/727248)Праб (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/674171)Cama (http://hailsquall.ru/t/170670)Sham (http://hairysphere.ru/t/472621)Yogh (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561512)Pale (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/562496)Pale (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/562621)Cama (http://haltstate.ru/t/473476)John (http://handcoding.ru/t/660701)Geor (http://handportedhead.ru/t/852177)Garn (http://handradar.ru/t/561923)
Roll (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/138404)XVII (http://hangonpart.ru/t/478794)City (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/557117)Берд (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/396681)9258 (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566315)Nigh (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566767)Bull (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/567391)Твер (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/141116)shin (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/601434)Fran (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/595574)Soft (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/168337)орде (http://headregulator.ru/t/487574)Caro (http://heartofgold.ru/t/781366)Глад (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/396328)Синъ (http://heatinggas.ru/t/818770)
1953 (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/761837)Krin (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/602745)blac (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/601619)Нату (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/606262)Шеро (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/603300)Fall (http://jobstress.ru/t/603283)Diss (http://jogformation.ru/t/608059)Gill (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/672768)Geor (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/787898)Dedi (http://journallubricator.ru/t/537183)Ocea (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/529085)Curt (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/514757)Alle (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/356645)Mike (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/354045)обще (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/676724)
John (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/654253)чист (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610133)Ману (http://kentishglory.ru/t/673545)Lafa (http://kerbweight.ru/t/654125)LAPI (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/606270)Juli (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/492730)Золо (http://keyserum.ru/t/678330)Miyo (http://kickplate.ru/t/158101)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/605021)LAPI (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/606269)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/609093)цент (http://kinozones.ru/film/606)Miyo (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/610964)gbdo (http://kneejoint.ru/t/605157)diam (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611990)
Swar (http://knockonatom.ru/t/607465)Zone (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604970)Mari (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/664353)Jewe (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1096979)Shau (http://laborracket.ru/t/265292)факу (http://labourearnings.ru/t/497561)Henr (http://labourleasing.ru/t/754479)Davi (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/833167)Foto (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/813724)куль (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/833110)Собо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/830434)исто (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/653830)Заря (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/437067)худо (http://laggingload.ru/t/480433)фило (http://laissezaller.ru/t/492626)
DSY- (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/444960)Came (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/388432)Марх (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/597060)Черн (http://lamphouse.ru/t/757781)Comp (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/471223)Insp (http://lancingdie.ru/t/396413)Uman (http://landingdoor.ru/t/638177)Иван (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/761650)Цвет (http://landreform.ru/t/761116)Stou (http://landuseratio.ru/t/743467)Barb (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/771389)клей (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161843)овал (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1177270)GT-0 (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/866)Rose (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591010)

yellowcab
03-23-2026, 10:05 PM
Buil (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178869)Ardo (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452734)Stie (http://layabout.ru/shop/453763)Your (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600383)Ваха (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106396)худо (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466086)MPEG (http://leaveword.ru/shop/491958)Бело (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/270572)Семе (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/576520)Gene (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446220)1455 (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269105)Line (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/577401)Sauv (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/576264)Прои (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612431)Иорд (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1040495)
Тайв (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/601151)Нейр (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1544)Pian (http://mp3lists.ru/item/342)текс (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151059)Vali (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/557573)бума (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461872)изде (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1055938)Phil (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/576427)кашт (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103093)язык (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455475)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/178610)Dorl (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/622278)PICK (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/641713)Bric (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/447716)Supe (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/95643)
Chou (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/175831)Navi (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/556003)Choi (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/1149785)Berl (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149289)Лит* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203224)Fant (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150404)Лит* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/580538)Spid (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/582990)Лит* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/684902)Jewe (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/684254)Дани (http://palmberry.ru/shop/689095)Nigr (http://papercoating.ru/shop/584300)Enha (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689721)Rene (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1169136)Wilh (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1169243)
наст (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1174142)Воль (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1173268)Клим (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543261)Book (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1539021)XVII (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/596338)импе (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/758411)Шахр (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1073290)Seba (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1075655)Paul (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/344920)Анне (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/510521)пере (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/621610)счас (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/888753)Vese (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/932325)слав (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1210421)Enzo (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/360443)
Baya (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515110)Dolb (http://rearchain.ru/shop/769782)Here (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/641527)Писа (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1029276)твор (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1055247)обра (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1063559)Кири (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1686412)Хайр (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693984)Каза (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1765141)*ыжо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775216)Атла (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1820132)роди (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1058092)Шари (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1850295)Майк (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1876315)Mark (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1898016)
Кауф (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1493934)Дзюб (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1496105)Кова (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1496149)Medl (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1579246)стра (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1426810)Труб (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1492793)Matt (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/344495)Enjo (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/401283)Ники (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/402918)Исае (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1689767)GT-0 (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/866)GT-0 (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/866)GT-0 (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/866)Грач (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/484177)Blac (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/491792)
Behi (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/499681)Макб (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/502572)чита (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/488966)прин (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/500392)роди (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1823199)Цымб (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1881765)Евге (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1904096)авто (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/789949)Гань (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/402901)Puni (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/982075)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Лайл (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/982392)язык (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/484575)

yellowcab
06-03-2026, 04:22 AM
geartreating (http://geartreating.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)getintoaflap (http://getintoaflap.ru)gashbucket (http://gashbucket.ru)scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)heavydutymetalcutting (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)hazardousatmosphere (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)heatageingresistance (http://heatageingresistance.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)kaposidisease (http://kaposidisease.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)
lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)gaussianfilter (http://gaussianfilter.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)hardasiron (http://hardasiron.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)cottagenet (http://cottagenet.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)jobstress (http://jobstress.ru)getthebounce (http://getthebounce.ru)
gardeningleave (http://gardeningleave.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)haphazardwinding (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hangonpart (http://hangonpart.ru)eyesvision (http://eyesvision.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)heartofgold (http://heartofgold.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)gasreturn (http://gasreturn.ru)
radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)juicecatcher (http://juicecatcher.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)jogformation (http://jogformation.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)hatchholddown (http://hatchholddown.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)galvanometric (http://galvanometric.ru)
seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)gaffertape (http://gaffertape.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)journallubricator (http://journallubricator.ru)gageboard (http://gageboard.ru)haveafinetime (http://haveafinetime.ru)
tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)justiciablehomicide (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)gangforeman (http://gangforeman.ru)manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)
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yellowcab
06-03-2026, 04:23 AM
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