View Full Version : What Happened to [Wilderness] Survival?
MCBushbaby
03-22-2008, 02:57 PM
So maybe it's just me, and maybe it's just a rant, but what ever happened to the posts on wilderness survival, skills, and stuff in General Survival Discussion? I keep seeing these "eotwawki" and economic depression threads and I keep asking myself "why are people posting this on a wilderness forum and not 'republicansgonecrazy' forums?" I don't think new people who are looking for a wilderness survival discussion forum will be very pleased to find at least half the new articles are being written on urban survival and post-depression "what if" scenarios. Seems like we could be headed for a 'Hal Turner' kind of site. I dunno, maybe it's just me.
BraggSurvivor
03-22-2008, 03:08 PM
Your right mitch, I wont post anymore urbal survival stuff until you catch up posting about rubbing two sticks together.
beerrunner13
03-22-2008, 03:12 PM
Soory Mitch it was my understanding anyone could start a thread on anything they wanted to a point. Why don't you start one on what you want to talk about? BTW even I think Turner is a bit over the top
MCBushbaby
03-22-2008, 03:44 PM
I'm not saying noone can post about anything survival related, I'm just wondering what it has to do with wilderness survival. Quick "shtf forums" google search brought me here (http://www.armslocker.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=676) and after glancing over some of the topics... well... they are pretty much the same as on this forum. Grain shortages, precious metals, bug out pack setups, etc. But again, my opinion. Sorry I brought it up
Alpine_Sapper
03-22-2008, 03:51 PM
So maybe it's just me, and maybe it's just a rant, but what ever happened to the posts on wilderness survival, skills, and stuff in General Survival Discussion? I keep seeing these "eotwawki" and economic depression threads and I keep asking myself "why are people posting this on a wilderness forum and not 'republicansgonecrazy' forums?" I don't think new people who are looking for a wilderness survival discussion forum will be very pleased to find at least half the new articles are being written on urban survival and post-depression "what if" scenarios. Seems like we could be headed for a 'Hal Turner' kind of site. I dunno, maybe it's just me.
I'm pretty sure the majority of the topics have been covered. There's only so much you can say about survival kits, fire starting, water purification...I mean, the topics are not rocket science. Eventually the thread topics start to shift or the forum dies and becomes a static reference page. If you would like to discuss something, post a topic.
I agree that the economic depression and eotwawki posts are depressing and anxiety inducing to an extent. But would you think about it, and possibly prepare for the eventuality if they weren't there?
nell67
03-22-2008, 04:06 PM
I think most of us here could care less whether the economy fails or not,and we came to learn and share our wilderness survival skills with others,NOT to learn about the economy,maybe Chris could start another forum just for those who have all that money can gloat amongst yourselves about what everyone else is going to do when the bottom drops out of the market.
MOST of us dont care!!!! All these economic posts are the reason most on here have stopped posting all together,and some who have been here longer than you guys have stopped coming onto the forum altogether.
mitch is one of the few on here who has kept it true to the forum and keeps on posting what he is doing as far as learning new skills,mitch,I applaude you,keep it up and dont let it get to you.
Truth is I have never had the kind of money some of you brag about having,and never will,will I notice if the market crashes,not at all,seriously,I hope it does so everyone will finally stop posting about it.
BraggSurvivor
03-22-2008, 04:08 PM
I'm not saying noone can post about anything survival related, I'm just wondering what it has to do with wilderness survival. Quick "shtf forums" google search brought me here (http://www.armslocker.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=676) and after glancing over some of the topics... well... they are pretty much the same as on this forum. Grain shortages, precious metals, bug out pack setups, etc. But again, my opinion. Sorry I brought it up
You have the right to bring it up as I think your opinion is certainly valid. I'm sure there are alot of members and potential here feel the same way you do.
In my opinion it's all relative to survival. Rick and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum but at the same time have alot of things in common. We certainly balance each other out thats for sure. (I really enjoy his mellow and thoughtful takes on most topics pertaining to SHTF posts)
I for the most part only read posts that interest me. Making a spear does not turn my crank and I dont open them up. Its that simple.
BraggSurvivor
03-22-2008, 04:39 PM
AS,I think most of us here have been thinking about it weather the economy fails or not,and THAT is why WE came here in the first place to learn and share our WILDERNESS survival skills with others,NOT to learn about the economy,maybe Chris aould start another forum just for those who have all that money can gloat amongst yourselves about what everyone elase is going to do when the bottom drops out of the market.
MOST OF US DON'T CARE!!!! All these economic posts are THE reason most on here have stopped posting all together,and some who have been here much longer than you guys have stopped coming onto the forum altogether.
mitch is one of the few on here who has kept it true to the forum and keeps on posting what he is doing as far as learning new skills,mitch,I applaude you,keep it up and dont let the bs get to you.
Truth is I have never had the kind of money some of you brag about having,and never will,will I notice if the market crashes,not at all,seriously,I hope it does so everyone will finally stop posting about it.
Current events can be posted and can be discussed by adults who can disagree and still remain friends.
Again there are some of us who believe economic preparation is essential to "wilderness survival". I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
nell67
03-22-2008, 04:41 PM
Bragg,I dont regret my feelings at all,and truth be told there are many others here feeling the same way.
beerrunner13
03-22-2008, 04:54 PM
Whoa sounds like some one has a little envy or denial thing going on. I for one am not rich but have enjoyed the posts on the economic issues we all face to be junped on by people who have been here longer, or are "pureists; is beyond belief when most of thier posts are LOL or something so off topic from what the thread it makes you say huh?
As someone better at expressing themselves has said I am pretty sure I can put a BOB together,start a fire or make a spear with out devoteing 3 pages to it.
As it seems like some folks here would rather argue and resist the facts of life I will leave you folks to your inane disscusions on how to make a spear out of music wire or which Rambo knife is better or maybe how to make nitro out of household materials. To some of the folks here if you are not of the crew you do not rate an opinion even though they do not start threads just hijack them so I am out of here.
To those who see the world for waht it is and try to bring a little common sense and enlightenment to the masses I applaud you, but I am tired of the cryig and fighting here best of luck to all of you
BraggSurvivor
03-22-2008, 05:03 PM
My wife has a favorite saying that she has often used on me "Suck it up, buttercup"
From your earlier post you stated: "and some who have been here much longer than you guys have stopped coming onto the forum altogether"
So, thats their problem. I also didnt know you had to be here for 16+ months before you could feel welcome posting pertinent information.
Again, I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Dont read it nell.
MCBushbaby
03-22-2008, 05:04 PM
I agree you can only talk about wilderness survival for so long before it begins to repeat. However while talking has diminishing returns, actually going out and practicing what you preach, or listen to, gives many more threads relevant to the forum's subject matter. One can talk about how to start a primitive fire and go over all the specs and tutorials they've read online or in some book, but when you go out and try it yourself you can come back to the forums with some much-needed personal experience. For example, in my thread on making a wax stove, I could simply copy down a bunch of steps and leave it at that... people would respond "nice find" or "I'll try this sometime" and the thread will die. However since I actually tried it, I found that the cardboard coil unravels in the wax, so I needed to tie it with bailing wire. Likewise I found the wax slumps when cooled. Another thing you wouldn't know unless you try it personally and then post your findings.
I'd also like to point out in the General Chat section where it says "Talk about anything except politics & religion." Does economic depression and the like not constitute a field of politics? Should this message be posted under every forum category?
BraggSurvivor
03-22-2008, 05:07 PM
Whoa sounds like some one has a little envy or denial thing going on. I for one am not rich but have enjoyed the posts on the economic issues we all face to be junped on by people who have been here longer, or are "pureists; is beyond belief when most of thier posts are LOL or something so off topic from what the thread it makes you say huh?
As someone better at expressing themselves has said I am pretty sure I can put a BOB together,start a fire or make a spear with out devoteing 3 pages to it.
As it seems like some folks here would rather argue and resist the facts of life I will leave you folks to your inane disscusions on how to make a spear out of music wire or which Rambo knife is better or maybe how to make nitro out of household materials. To some of the folks here if you are not of the crew you do not rate an opinion even though they do not start threads just hijack them so I am out of here.
To those who see the world for waht it is and try to bring a little common sense and enlightenment to the masses I applaud you, but I am tired of the cryig and fighting here best of luck to all of you
Aw crap beerrunner, hang in there bro.
nell67
03-22-2008, 05:14 PM
Yea,please dont leave because of me,that was not my intentions at all,I was just stating MY opinion on mitch's post,and I am not jealous,nor a pureist at all,I just happen to believe the forum is a wilderness survival forum,and not related to money in any shape nor form.
Why is everyone getting their nickers in a twist? Each of the forum sections have information specific to that section and what should be posted there. For example:
General Emergency Preparedness is "Any general topic related to fortifying the homestead for disaster survival, or bugging out in the wake of a catastrophe."
Generall Chat is "Talk about anything except politics & religion."
There is room on the forum for both audiences in my opinion. I disagree with the view that there are only so many ways to make fire. There are a lot of topics we have not discussed in wilderness survival and I outlined them in a post a few days ago. I'm not going to rehash that. But choose the forum you are interested in and go with it.'
Beerrunner, I hate to see you go. You've offered some good posts and I hope you hang around and argue with me some. I don't have many that want to do that.....
crashdive123
03-22-2008, 08:06 PM
I gotta say - there is a wealth of information on these forums for me. One of my longer range plans will be taking place in Wyoming or Montanna, but that is several years away. I enjoy reading about others views on a multitude of topics. Some of the stuff is really great, some makes me laugh, and some makes me shake my head in disbelief. I hope that everybody hangs in there because I learn something from everybody - even those I disagree with.
I just don't post on these kinds of threads, basically because I'm a Republican. Figure that that would piss alot of people off. I don't hug trees, don't breath deep, I believe one should take responsibility for their actions.
If you come up short, guess what, you came up short. Your problem.
I tire of the whining and complaining about gas prices, food prices, and such.
Lately, I've been side tracked. Family matters take priority. I check the posts, but not posting much. Come late spring, I will be getting into the woods, maybe as soon as next weekend. Turkey season is in, good reason to take to the woods and try to stick a hog with primitive bow and arrow.
As far as investment talk, this is a public forum. World access, really don't want to give out info.
Funny, ya won't post your real names or pics, but you will post about how much investments you have and in what. Duhhhh..........like your address can't be found out by a good hacker.LOL.
Ahhh, just ramblings from a Jarhead.
Sourdough
03-22-2008, 08:41 PM
Whoa sounds like some one has a little envy or denial thing going on. I for one am not rich but have enjoyed the posts on the economic issues we all face to be junped on by people who have been here longer, or are "pureists; is beyond belief when most of thier posts are LOL or something so off topic from what the thread it makes you say huh?
As someone better at expressing themselves has said I am pretty sure I can put a BOB together,start a fire or make a spear with out devoteing 3 pages to it.
As it seems like some folks here would rather argue and resist the facts of life I will leave you folks to your inane disscusions on how to make a spear out of music wire or which Rambo knife is better or maybe how to make nitro out of household materials. To some of the folks here if you are not of the crew you do not rate an opinion even though they do not start threads just hijack them so I am out of here.
To those who see the world for waht it is and try to bring a little common sense and enlightenment to the masses I applaud you, but I am tired of the cryig and fighting here best of luck to all of you
Beerrunner 13, I also am out of here. I came to help, I came to teach. I came to share some of the painfully lessons I have learned in 38 years in the Alaska Wilderness, I'll die of old age soon. What I have learned can die with me. I shared what I have learned from thousands of close Brown Bear encounters, no one cared. No one asked what does it mean to "PUSH" a Brown Bear, they just don't care. So I went back and deleted the Brown Bear information. Like you say they won't start a thread, but they sure wine and cry about the one's I start. So the days are long, I live in the wilderness, I'll go hike 5 to 8 per day. And soon I'll start building the Barn. I don't think I'll be missed. And I'll not let the door hit me in the arse on the way out. Bye, Bye:)
Stony
03-22-2008, 08:42 PM
where is the beef here?
as for me, i don't read any and every post, just the ones that have a catching headline.
this forum is not as bad as others, so why start arguing over nothing?
there are always people that think the eat wisdom with a (silver) spoon.
i have met a few in my days and all fall shaort when the rubber meets the road.
be it out in the bush or on the water.
cry-baby wants to stire up trouble? just ignore her/him.
Canadian-guerilla
03-22-2008, 08:49 PM
Current events can be posted and can be discussed by adults who can disagree and still remain friends.
Again there are some of us who believe economic preparation is essential to "wilderness survival".
+1
i might stop in here once a week now
basically, we're just asking each other for thoughts and opinions
and to just disregard current events going on right now in the world
just because this is supposed to be " wilderness-survival " only ?
someone start another knife thread . . .
canid
03-22-2008, 09:03 PM
ok, tomorrow i'll post a pictorial on how to build a stock ticker from turtle bones and crow feathers, with rattan lashing...
honestly i hear you, but i consider the fault to be my own. when i have the time, energy and inclination, i'll be posting more of the stuff i think many of us come here for. i encourage you to do the same. problem solved [sort of].
canid
03-22-2008, 09:06 PM
we can call it a coalition of the whittling...
I've found that usually between Sept. and Feb., hunting boards slow down to a crawl. Because everyone is out hunting. Possibly the same here. Hard to be on the computer when you're out in the bush all the time.
When ya get back in, a computer screen just does not look to tempting.
Hopeak, sorry but I missed that brown bear thread. So, what does push a brown bear mean? Not that I want to go do it, but it sounds, scary.
palerider
03-22-2008, 10:35 PM
WAREAGLE and i have discussed this also and i know he is not coming around because of this, this site is supposed to be wilderness survival not economic collapse, while i agree that some may consider an economic coolapse as a shtf scenario some of us feel that sites other than this are better suited for these topics why should we have to ignore your posts as you say why not post them where they will be appreiciated, in my opinion you are ruining a great site and some will end up at other sites more focused on wilderness survival too bad i know some such as my bro WE has allot to offer maybe you will only figure that out when/if you get to the gathering..
Ridge Wolf
03-22-2008, 10:37 PM
There are pressing issues in this country that may be superceding wilderness survival. Who was it that said we are all a product of our environment? Our environment is at home and I don't think that a lot of us go out into the wilderness as much as we would like to because of those pressing issues and concerns in modern society that most of us have to endure. When other things are on a persons mind they talk about those other things. Certainly, the collapsing economy is important to us because most of us depend on that economy for our livlihood (so we can afford to go out into the wilderness and do our thing with wilderness survival, when we can afford the time to go out there and do it.
I will agree though that some of the posts here, should not be, due to not being within subject matter.. it is hard not to post some information that you have just discovered and think that someone within your 'group?' might be interested in it.. and we are a social group whether we realize it or not. This is a social forum.. if not 'chat room' of sorts. We as social people are interested in the daily goings on of the other people we associate and socialize with. All of that is human nature. It is up to us however, to think about the information we are about to post and insure that it is on subject matter pertinent to this media. If not, then it needs to be posted elsewhere in other pertinent forums. Is that agreeable? I know that I am just as guilty of that as much as some others are.
That being said, there is also the fact that a person can only say so much about wilderness or outdoor survival without being redundant. Look at some of the professional bloggers that are on the internet... and not only on the subject of wilderness survival. I think you will find that they must constantly conform, at least somewhat, to what the public wants to read about and constantly be fresh in their thoughts on the subject matter. Sure there are special interests and niche markets for bloggers and you should write about what sincerely interests you if you're blogging. But if what you are blogging doesn't hold interest in the public nobody is going to read you.. That is some of what has happened here I think. We are a wilderness survival site and we are talking about other things.. that don't interest people who come to this site looking for a certain kind of information. Someone said, the subject goes stale and sits as a stagnant archive of information...filled.. (that in so many words). Another said, you need to personally experience wilderness survival.. (or at least the practice of the methods) to appreciate it and passionately pass it on to others.. ( that in so many words also). I agree. first hand experience is a solid learning process and the best way to learn things in a controlled situation. Maybe that is what most of us need to get out and start doing..or doing more of... learning by experience to be more richly informed instead of merely reading about it in books.
I better stop before I really start to ramble into incoherence... :D But these are some of the things I have observed.
Addendum: I am going to practice what I preach and only post to the subject matter of the forum.
Sarge47
03-22-2008, 10:37 PM
Doggone you Mitch! You're running members off again!:rolleyes: I agree with you that a lot of posts lately have been geared towards Suvivalists"; &, like you, I'm not into that! However, if people want to post on it do what I do, stay off the thread! I probably don't even read 90% of the stuff posted as of late because it's not Germaine to me. Like FVR I'm basically a Republican but so what? We are what we are and the idea is to get along with one another as best as we can, not quibble over the adverse view points some of us might share. If you go back through all the threads that we have here I don't know that there is anything else we can cover. I suppose that Countryboy 2 brought in something new with his Nalgene Survival kit but shoot, for all of his "experience" in the outdoors he didn't even know how to make a squirrel pole; something most Scouts around these parts know by the time their 2nd class! Here's the thing, some of you might leave and I'm sorry to see you all go, but we're gaining new members all the time so we're going to be good. And as far as when the end comes, who knows how, what, where, when, and even if anybody can Survive it, that's all conjecture. The idea of Survival, like Hopeak pointed out, as well as some others here, is to get BACK to normal living; and that's what I'm doing right now, living normally. The idea of this site is, IMHO, to help one enjoy the outdoors in a recreational type of thing, so that's what I get out of it. Mitch, if you can think of anything we've overlooked, bring it on! I'd enjoy seeing it!:cool:
1
MCBushbaby
03-22-2008, 11:00 PM
(movie announcer voice)
It started as a rant, a simple stated opinion
(random flyby scene)
Then they came...
"Helen RUN!!!!"
The war began faster than anyone expected
(shooting scene)
Families split, siding on differing opinions
(little girl) "Daddy!"
Many left
"I'm not staying on this sinking ship!"
"Dammit Mathers, if you leave.." (sniped in the head)
Many stayed
"We stand, and fight! SPARTA!"
Others closed their doors
(overhead battle scene)
March 23rd... which side will you choose?
"AHHHHHHHH"
(black screen, "Rated R for Rant")
Wow, I didn't think I'd be running off members. And I didn't realize how many people were actually staying away because of the whole economic discussion. Quite the eye-opener
canid
03-22-2008, 11:20 PM
ahahahahaha! brilliant.
BraggSurvivor
03-23-2008, 01:18 AM
I just don't post on these kinds of threads, basically because I'm a Republican. Figure that that would piss alot of people off. I don't hug trees, don't breath deep, I believe one should take responsibility for their actions.
If you come up short, guess what, you came up short. Your problem.
I tire of the whining and complaining about gas prices, food prices, and such.
Lately, I've been side tracked. Family matters take priority. I check the posts, but not posting much. Come late spring, I will be getting into the woods, maybe as soon as next weekend. Turkey season is in, good reason to take to the woods and try to stick a hog with primitive bow and arrow.
As far as investment talk, this is a public forum. World access, really don't want to give out info.
Funny, ya won't post your real names or pics, but you will post about how much investments you have and in what. Duhhhh..........like your address can't be found out by a good hacker.LOL.
Ahhh, just ramblings from a Jarhead.
You rock FVR, wish we lived closer.....
BraggSurvivor
03-23-2008, 01:31 AM
(movie announcer voice)
It started as a rant, a simple stated opinion
(random flyby scene)
Then they came...
"Helen RUN!!!!"
The war began faster than anyone expected
(shooting scene)
Families split, siding on differing opinions
(little girl) "Daddy!"
Many left
"I'm not staying on this sinking ship!"
"Dammit Mathers, if you leave.." (sniped in the head)
Many stayed
"We stand, and fight! SPARTA!"
Others closed their doors
(overhead battle scene)
March 23rd... which side will you choose?
"AHHHHHHHH"
(black screen, "Rated R for Rant")
Wow, I didn't think I'd be running off members. And I didn't realize how many people were actually staying away because of the whole economic discussion. Quite the eye-opener
Excellent mitch, entertaining! LOL
BraggSurvivor
03-23-2008, 01:37 AM
Thats it, from now on I'm only posting about worm farming..........just kidding, more economic collapse ahead. Stay tuned!
I don't know why folks believe there is nothing else to talk about on wilderness survival. Look at the survival knife thread. 490 posts. The survival kit thread 486. I know many were off subject but that's true with most threads. That's a lot of posts. A lot of interest in those two arenas.
This week alone, we've talked about spears, spear points, uses of deer parts, SAR costs for wilderness accidents, cup and bowl making, tanning, root cellars, homestead gardening, and those are just off the top of my head.
General Chat is for anything you want to talk about. The rest are specific to given subjects. Just contain your posts within the guidelines and everyone should be (could be) happy.
Ole WV Coot
03-23-2008, 10:06 AM
:confused: The economy is important to me survival wise. I did do a little work for 35yrs. While you were comfy inside I was hanging on a pole in the rain, snow and whatever because you couldn't call your Aunt Hilda and tell her how terrible it was outside. I would get called at 3am on maybe a Sunday morning, kiss the wife and tell her I would call when I could. I could be gone a day or so up to 3 months or more and when floods or any natural disasters hit. I did my Uncle Sam thing but don't EVER mention it. I have been a lot of places, did a lot of things and to ME my income IS the stock market. You don't think the market is important?? Well your job, what you pay for services, home, food I could go on and on. I can't make everything for survival. Lots I buy. Folks, try to stock up without $$. I grew up at the end of a hollow in Eastern KY, learned to do most everything and am always wanting to learn anything new. I think I have earned my way and you best learn anything you can whether you think it's important to you now or not. (climbs down from soapbox)
Don't you mean (climb down from the pole)?
I think you describe the life of many of those here. Military, travelled the world, hard work outside in all kinds of weather, going through life making or trying to make good financial choices, and is a survivor.
chiggersngrits
03-23-2008, 11:53 AM
i stumbled on to this site about 6 months ago to see how one made pine tea. i'am a greenhorn, tenderfoot numpty or what ever you want to call it. i've lurked on the sideline absorbing all the wonderful info that the experienced members have to provide. i have never started a thread and very seldom even post,(other than feeble attempt at humor). Hopeak, you say people don't care about some of the post you write. brother i couldn't disagree more. you are one of my favorite posters. i was disappointed when you removed your blogs, they were great little short stories and i always let my buddies read them ,they are sorely missed. i am sure there are many more out there just like me who although we are silent really appreciate your experienced insight. yes the end of the world stuff can get a little overdone sometimes, but i have no problem with it, lets just keep it in the proper catagory. just my opinion but when we moved a lot of the discussions to stickys it seemed to stifle the discussion. i know alot of the more experienced members get tired of rehashing the same old thing over and over for us numptys it can be very enlighten. beerrunner says he is tiered of the infighting, bullying and whinning that sometimes goes on here; yes it can get tiring but like anything you have to take the bad with the good. i believe beer runner said he had much experierce in the swamps. i would love to here the stories. i guess what iam tring to say is i dont want to see any of this experienced and valuable information leave the site. so please, please for nobodys sake but my own stick around and continue to educate those like myself who indeed truly appreciate all your wonderful wisdom.
Sarge47
03-23-2008, 01:52 PM
i stumbled on to this site about 6 months ago to see how one made pine tea. i'am a greenhorn, tenderfoot numpty or what ever you want to call it. i've lurked on the sideline absorbing all the wonderful info that the experienced members have to provide. i have never started a thread and very seldom even post,(other than feeble attempt at humor). Hopeak, you say people don't care about some of the post you write. brother i couldn't disagree more. you are one of my favorite posters. i was disappointed when you removed your blogs, they were great little short stories and i always let my buddies read them ,they are sorely missed. i am sure there are many more out there just like me who although we are silent really appreciate your experienced insight. yes the end of the world stuff can get a little overdone sometimes, but i have no problem with it, lets just keep it in the proper catagory. just my opinion but when we moved a lot of the discussions to stickys it seemed to stifle the discussion. i know alot of the more experienced members get tired of rehashing the same old thing over and over for us numptys it can be very enlighten. beerrunner says he is tiered of the infighting, bullying and whinning that sometimes goes on here; yes it can get tiring but like anything you have to take the bad with the good. i believe beer runner said he had much experierce in the swamps. i would love to here the stories. i guess what iam tring to say is i dont want to see any of this experienced and valuable information leave the site. so please, please for nobodys sake but my own stick around and continue to educate those like myself who indeed truly appreciate all your wonderful wisdom.
For the record, Chig, you're not a "Numpty". Numpty is UK for "idiot". Not knowing anything about what goes on in the woods is no crime, and I find your candor refreshing. That makes you a "Nimrod", albeit an honest one. There are those on here who make claim to much experience, yet their posts reveal their ignorance in many areas, thus exposing their false claims. I, to, enjoyed Hopeak's post & Blogs; though I must confess I really don't understand someone going through all the trouble of deleting all their posts if they thought what they said was important and would benefit the group.:confused: I suppose there are some things I'll never understand, but please post more often, maybe you have questions that will challenge the group.:cool:
BraggSurvivor
03-23-2008, 01:53 PM
Great post chigger.
Oh, man, Sam. That was too funny. And yes, I've faced down guns on the job, too. One of our guys went toe to toe with a machete. People do some crazy stuff when you're out there to disconnect them for non-payment. You'd be surprised just how big a 12 gauge looks when you're looking down at the wrong end of it. Fortunately, no one ever pulled the trigger. The Corps can't make that claim.
wildWoman
03-24-2008, 01:16 PM
I agree with you Mitch, Nell and palerider. However, as Bragg pointed out, the forum lives by people posting threads on there. So I guess us more wilderness survival minded folks should be doing that to keep it in balance.
What puzzles me a bit though is if politics and religion are no-nos on the forum, how the economy crash and states crumbling apart stuff still gets on here???? If that's not related to politics, I don't know what is.
Again, I think it would be to the benefit of the forum to have an extra board for the WTSHTF stuff, trying to integrate it under the emergency preparedness doesn't really seem to work. I don't see how that would alienate the doomsday people, it would just give them a place to discuss that stuff, and the people not into it can just ignore that board. Similarily, I'm not much interested in the board dedicated to feedback on this site, so I hardly ever go there. When I get on here and see 10 - 15 threads on WTSHTF sprinkled throughout all of the boards, I often just log off again. My interest is wilderness, not the mobs in the city, that's why I originally found this forum.
You asked a good question. I suppose the the answer is where you draw the line. There is a stark difference, at least to me, in posting about Republicans, Democrats or Independents and posting about what you and your family should do if some crisis were to occur. I don't know whether that crisis is a tornado or some slump in the economy. Either can have an immediate and negative impact on your family. Whereas cussing the Democrats or trouncing George Bush just relieves some ill conceived stress.
The fact the threads are sprinkled throughout the boards is probably Sarge's and my fault as much as the poster. Frankly, I don't generally look at what board a post is in but I guess I should. I'll have to start doing that and moving them into the appropriate thread. Mea Culpa for not having done that to date.
Alpine_Sapper
03-24-2008, 02:52 PM
The mob in the city is wilderness.
The problem here is in our definitions of what constitutes wilderness survival.
You can separate city and wilderness intellectually, but the processes to survive both environments are the same.
While you cut wood to heat your home, i do something to heat my home too. Both skills might differ, but the end result and the process remains the same...we both spend energy, in order to gain energy...the amount of energy spent in rapport to the amount you gain is pure economics. The environment in which this happens is a matter of the mind.
You think (the mind) that "nature" is defined by certain aspects...like solitude, vegetation, little population density and so on...but all of those things do not pertain to energy and therefore survival, for survival is not of two distinct worlds...there is only one survival world...if this forum was called "wilderness", or "wilderness living", or anything without the word "survival", it would be a different sphere...but as soon as the word "survival" enters the equation, it opens the door for this one big world...this one big mood.
Your interest might be "wilderness", and without the word "survival" i agree that the mood pertaining to this title would be of a different sphere...but once again, the word survival is here introduced in order to specify the corresponding mood.
To survive wilderness is to understand how wilderness works.
We enter here the realm of biology, physiology, psychology, economics, mechanics, forces, behavior, and anything describing life as a whole.
Wilderness, in my book, does not stop at the metal sign saying "you are now entering the city of ...".
There are more wild animals where i live than you will ever encounter where you live.
Those animals are not governed by "non-wilderness" forces...for wilderness is under the law of life, and the only rule is to survive.
Some think that city dwellers are prisoners...as if wilderness dwellers were free ?
Chains are not a visual happening...chains are in our minds.
Happiness is a state of mind.
Freedom, is a state of mind...wilderness has no borders.
While i walk on hollywood Blvd. i call it wilderness.
The forces at play are the same here as when i walk through joshua tree.
It is not the environment that is at play, it is our response to this environment.
Our mood while facing life.
And splitting life into categories is at best an attempt of the mind to situate and process forces at play...but those forces are a personal affair.
It is the world touching you or you touching the world.
The difference between "wilderness" and "non-wilderness" is an idea...a metal sign...a mental sign.
Agreed. Wilderness is anything outside my home where the wild aminals roam. Whether they be four legged or two, fuzzy or decked out in fubu and ecko.
I was given a piece of the barb wire fence that runs through the DMZ, framed with a serial number as a Christmas present by my unit in Korea. It will always hang over the inside frame of my front door to remind me of the reality of crossing that threshold.
I reckon I've weighed in enough times so that folks already know my opinion. Wilderness survival is what I came here to learn, talk, and share what I know about. My opinion of the economic threads is basically...it all seems to be guess work and what the economy will do will fall somewhere between the two trains of thought, seems it usually does. What I have a concern with is...what a bunch of friggin' crybabies. Every time someone says something that someone else doesn't like it's time to jump up and kick sand at them and take your toys and run away crying? OK. See ya.
My hat's off to a certain gentleman who goes by the name Remy, three comebacks people, count 'em, three.
Now, I'm not terribly interested in buying metal or whatever, so I'm just going to go right ahead, scan what's said and not contribute to that thread. (Yep, I still look, I might just learn something)Someone else thinks they know all they need to know on snaring rabbits or building shelters in the bush or whatever, don't read the thread! Yowza what a concept.
Now then, I'm also of the opinion that if people want to learn more about "wilderness" survival as in the great outdoors, most of us have to take a look at our relationship with the earth and how we see ourselves in a natural environment. Most people don't. That, from what I've seen, includes most people here and I don't see that changing anytime soon or being changed by anything I'm going to say to them so I don't. People want to yack on about shtf scenarios and how they plan to defend themselves from other people more than anything it seems. Good luck. If it happens, it won't be what matters. We all have to exploit our environments to stay alive, whatever that environment is, but the question is....to what degree? Are you living to survive or basing your "survival" on good old greed? In another posting I stated that I'd rather have a "survival" knife than a gold brick in a shtf scenario. Someone asked what if I wanted to buy a boat? Hellooooo. And lucky me! I own knives, I'm coming up pretty short in the gold department (have some old broken neck chains that I could get melted together I suppose, might add up to a gram, don't care)
Anyway, if people want to leave or go away and pout, good luck to them, my only concern about all the economic posts is for newcomers looking for a wilderness based forum
BraggSurvivor
03-24-2008, 04:14 PM
trax, i dont think it has anything to do with "go away and pout". A person can only take so much. Everytime you turn around someone is jabbing you in the ribs, behind your back. (and not in a kidding way) hopeak and beerrunner are awsome guys with lifetimes of valuable information and it has been beatin away due to their views. hopeak has over thirty years in the bush....he has forgotten more than most of us (i will use "us") Conelickers "think" we know. A huge huge loss. :mad:
For me, I dont give a flying crap what some say about what I post. Economics is basic survival to me, and I havent lived in a city for over twenty years. Most people watch Dr.Phil and Opra before they will find out how the worlds economy is doing.
Oh,(this one really steams me) and forget about working hard when you were young, build a sucessful businness, put some wealth way and be debt free. You dont want to do that around here.
Every person has the ability to be economically successful. There are hundreds, if not thousands or even millions, of rags-to-riches stories. One of my favorites is Andrew Carnegie.
Reading books when I was 13 about how to become a self made millionaire when my friends were reading Archie comic books. What I saw was that of all of them, only one worked for someone else. Anyone who works for someone else is making their employer rich.
If you are in your 30s or 40s or 50s, in debt with no saving and looking for a 'job' working for someone else, well, you made some wrong decisions earlier in life. It's not my fault!
And to those who have PM,d me to stop posting about Doom & Gloom.........<scratching head and looking for the middle finger smilie>.........
Well now, that confused me. Take so much of what? How is anyone being jabbed in the ribs? No one asked Hopeak or Beerrunner to leave. Quite the opposite. If they leave, it's a decision they made on their own.
There are a number of you economy is in the toilet pundants that keep telling me I'm wrong. That's okay by me. I don't get mad. I don't care if you don't get it (he said tongue in cheek). You guys have every right to your opinion. I appreciate your position, enjoy discussing and cussing it. Each of you have made some solid points and each of you have made to bad ones (in my view). I'll bet I've done the same.
How does someone saying the world is roses and sugar plums stabbing in the back and someone saying the world is vinegar and sour grapes okay? It's nothing more than a different opinion. If some think they are out to save everyone by telling them TS will hit the fan, then sorry. There's no hero there. No more than someone saying it's just a cycle. It's still only opinion. If that makes anyone mad enough to leave then the skin was thin on the fruit to begin with and too easily bruised. What would they do if they encountered a real problem. This is, afterall, a forum. An electronic way to talk to one another. How that can get knickers in a twist is beyond me. Save it for when there is REALLY something to worry about like when the Colts lose.
BraggSurvivor
03-24-2008, 04:53 PM
Teeter Totter, Bread and butter, Wash your face in muddy water.......
Ive never said you were wrong Rick, just dillusional. j/k
I enjoy your replys and way of thinking. Its refreshing. Like roses and sugar plums.
trax, i dont think it has anything to do with "go away and pout". A person can only take so much.
And to those who have PM,d me to stop posting about Doom & Gloom.........<scratching head and looking for the middle finger smilie>.........
I agree that people should stop Pm-ing you, post what you want. But see....a long time ago when we did talk about wilderness survival here, I recall a thread about getting a fire started in a snowstorm. You may have seen it, maybe not, doesn't matter. Here's my point, there was a lot of what I thought was bs in the thread and I told people what I knew from my experience. It's tough to get a fire started in a snowstorm, well duuuh. So....if someone's stuck in a situation like that are they going to stare up into the snow and say...a person can only take so much? Well boo-hoo,it ain't gonna get the fire burning, punkin. I agree, too, that those guys have a lot of stuff to share and they can share whatever they want in whatever thread they want. Nobody believes in freedom of expression more than I, you can take that to the bank. (Or you can sew it into your mattress if the banks collapse) But it seems to me that way too often people get all pissy about a bit of bickering and they're pulling up stakes and running off. Then we get two pages of people whining "don't go" or apologizing for what they said, apologizing doesn't un-say something. Doesn't really sound like that tough, pioneer/survivor spirit that keeps people facing down bears or rassling wolverines or whatever the f***, y'know? I'm just saying bon voyage, their choice.
BraggSurvivor
03-24-2008, 05:06 PM
I know what your saying trax, probably right. I was just sticking up for my likeminded buds is all.
I was not speaking for them, but I could just see someone thinking "is it really worth all this" or "this isnt the only survival site on the net".
(Ive thought it myself)
But, to balance out Rick, Ive decided it is now my mission to stick around. :D
Hot dog!!! No one else will argue with me.:o
crashdive123
03-24-2008, 05:31 PM
Yeah. Figure the odds.
nell67
03-24-2008, 05:31 PM
Hot dog!!! No one else will argue with me.:o
Rick,I would argue with you,but since I am female,I would have an unfair advantage:D:p
Hot dog!!! No one else will argue with me.:o
No one else could be bothered.
(looking up insults in dictionary).....
(looking up insults in dictionary).....
uh-oh, expecting some sand kicking to start, there goes the shiny red plastic pail and shovel out of the playground. Maybe I should apologize to Ri....nah, never mind
wildWoman
03-24-2008, 08:12 PM
The mob in the city is wilderness.
The problem here is in our definitions of what constitutes wilderness survival.
You can separate city and wilderness intellectually, but the processes to survive both environments are the same.
While you cut wood to heat your home, i do something to heat my home too. Both skills might differ, but the end result and the process remains the same...we both spend energy, in order to gain energy...the amount of energy spent in rapport to the amount you gain is pure economics. The environment in which this happens is a matter of the mind.
You think (the mind) that "nature" is defined by certain aspects...like solitude, vegetation, little population density and so on...but all of those things do not pertain to energy and therefore survival, for survival is not of two distinct worlds...there is only one survival world...if this forum was called "wilderness", or "wilderness living", or anything without the word "survival", it would be a different sphere...but as soon as the word "survival" enters the equation, it opens the door for this one big world...this one big mood.
Your interest might be "wilderness", and without the word "survival" i agree that the mood pertaining to this title would be of a different sphere...but once again, the word survival is here introduced in order to specify the corresponding mood.
To survive wilderness is to understand how wilderness works.
We enter here the realm of biology, physiology, psychology, economics, mechanics, forces, behavior, and anything describing life as a whole.
Wilderness, in my book, does not stop at the metal sign saying "you are now entering the city of ...".
There are more wild animals where i live than you will ever encounter where you live.
Those animals are not governed by "non-wilderness" forces...for wilderness is under the law of life, and the only rule is to survive.
Some think that city dwellers are prisoners...as if wilderness dwellers were free ?
Chains are not a visual happening...chains are in our minds.
Happiness is a state of mind.
Freedom, is a state of mind...wilderness has no borders.
While i walk on hollywood Blvd. i call it wilderness.
The forces at play are the same here as when i walk through joshua tree.
It is not the environment that is at play, it is our response to this environment.
Our mood while facing life.
And splitting life into categories is at best an attempt of the mind to situate and process forces at play...but those forces are a personal affair.
It is the world touching you or you touching the world.
The difference between "wilderness" and "non-wilderness" is an idea...a metal sign...a mental sign.
Sure people have different definitions for terms. However in the 19 years I lived in a large city, nobody I knew ever meant they were going downtown when mentioning the term wilderness.
As far as practical skills go, this forum still seems to be more geared at wilderness in terms of trees, animals, few people, rather than subways, Walmart and Starbucks. I'm not sure how pontificating on what fear is for my mind and how it expresses itself in my brainwaves would be helpful in either capsizing with my kayak or in getting mugged in New York City. Both causes fear but what I need in both instances is the skills to turn that situation around.
Anyway...your posts always befuddle my more moose-oriented mind :) don't want to get all hormonal here again as happened among members last week or whenever everybody was throwing fits...
BraggSurvivor
03-24-2008, 09:53 PM
Damn it remy, that's EXACTLY what I was gonna say!
:D
Great post....again, made my nipples hard.
MCBushbaby
03-24-2008, 10:54 PM
You have to admit with that perception of survival, Remy, the forums could spread so far from survival related to the wilderness that it'll become unrecognizable. Let's say someone starts a thread on "eluding enemy capture in the bush", then someone responds with a thread "cover-your-trail: camo and ghillie suits" which in turn turns produces "lightweight flak vests". Eventually someone will take the opposite approach and play the hunter with "IR vs heat vision goggles" or "hollow point or slug, antipersonnel". Then Billy Johnson will google "wilderness survival" and think he's going to learn Eagle Scout-type skills only to find threads on how a ceramic flak vest is better at stopping a .308. Of course you can argue all the threads relate to survival, but how far off topic is too far?
Wilderness survival is not making candles out of pre-made wax or paper flutes with a comb...survival is hard work, and rests on a life or death stimuli. What if the SHTF where you are at...and your spouse becomes in need of medical assistance ? You will go to that city, you will think about economics to acquire what you need...you will need skills far beyond paddling...desperation, life or death needs...that is survival...and survival has no borders determined by what you call wilderness or not.
Well then this forum might as well be called "world survival" if you're going to group everything into an all-encompassing discussion. Heck, why stop at the economy? Let's talk about survival on the moon! Because, alluding to your anecdote, what happens if TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI and we need to come out of the bush and hop a shuttle to a lunar homestead? Will gold be the currency of choice on the moon? How about buying up air and water since those are going to be the precious commodities. Should I start making moon threads? I mean, yes it's highly unlikely we'll be shipped off to the moon anytime soon but how much more plausible is it that the economy will crash and the world will go into fan-sh1t scenario?
beerrunner13
03-24-2008, 10:56 PM
Well I did not mean to stir up such a big to do. I got a couple PMs and even a phone call last night telling me I should rethink not posting here any more.
I did not take my toys and go away I got tired of hearing people complain and ***** about posts they did not like, not becuse of content but becuse of subject. DUHH don't read them if people think the the economy dosen't affect thier survival they are in denial. That and some of the attitudes here, such as if some one has not been here as long as them they have no right to an opinion if it dose not match thiers. It seems if one is not in Canaada, the western Mountains or up north it is assumed that they know nothing about survival according to some folks here.
As gvan, Catfish and a few others can tell you spend a little time in a swamp down here and you will find it is not a day at the beach. I have spent nearly 30 years working with the man who holds the second gator trapping permit in the state of Fl and another man who removes feral hogs and dose a lot of live trapping and cutting on boars. I have lived in a cabin off grid in Western Maine and spent a lot of time in the Montana and Wy wilderness so I know a few things. Not looking to get into a urination contest but some of the condsending comments I have recieved left a bad taste in my mouth.
I have learned a lot from both Bragg and Rick in regard to finaces, currently I am trying to get our debts paid of and my wife and I are stocking up on needed materials and knowlage as well as working with some real estate people and checking out land, as we are planing on setting up our own self sefficent homestead. In all likely hood it will be in Montana as I think I have found the property I want. But I have much to learn in the meantime and it's not all how to start a fire or what the best knife is.
In closeing I stand by everything I said before, but I see this forum as a great resourse and plan on continueing to use it. And if I get on someones nerves oh well you are probobly on mine already:rolleyes:
crashdive123
03-24-2008, 11:11 PM
Glad your hanging around.
BraggSurvivor
03-24-2008, 11:15 PM
You have to admit with that perception of survival, Remy, the forums could spread so far from survival related to the wilderness that it'll become unrecognizable. Let's say someone starts a thread on "eluding enemy capture in the bush", then someone responds with a thread "cover-your-trail: camo and ghillie suits" which in turn turns produces "lightweight flak vests". Eventually someone will take the opposite approach and play the hunter with "IR vs heat vision goggles" or "hollow point or slug, antipersonnel". Then Billy Johnson will google "wilderness survival" and think he's going to learn Eagle Scout-type skills only to find threads on how a ceramic flak vest is better at stopping a .308. Of course you can argue all the threads relate to survival, but how far off topic is too far?
Well then this forum might as well be called "world survival" if you're going to group everything into an all-encompassing discussion. Heck, why stop at the economy? Let's talk about survival on the moon! Because, alluding to your anecdote, what happens if TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI and we need to come out of the bush and hop a shuttle to a lunar homestead? Will gold be the currency of choice on the moon? How about buying up air and water since those are going to be the precious commodities. Should I start making moon threads? I mean, yes it's highly unlikely we'll be shipped off to the moon anytime soon but how much more plausible is it that the economy will crash and the world will go into fan-sh1t scenario?
Hmm,....... the moon you say......There has to be a conspiracy theory or SHTF moon scenerio out there somewhere.........thanks for the ideas mitch!
BraggSurvivor
03-24-2008, 11:17 PM
Hey beerrunner, you know the Montana border is only 2 1/2 hours away from me. Meet up for a beer when you get set up.
Glad to have you back bro!
beerrunner13
03-24-2008, 11:44 PM
Hey beerrunner, you know the Montana border is only 2 1/2 hours away from me. Meet up for a beer when you get set up.
Glad to have you back bro!
Thanks bud. I have a couple years stuck here till the wifes job ends and I am debt free. Unless my redneck IRA aka the lotto comes through. and you got it on the beer.
And thanks Crash
awfoxden
03-25-2008, 02:00 AM
i find this site interesting and find myself spending alot of time reading and ocasionally posting. if i click on a thread and read the first post and am not interested is exit the tread. not a dificult concept. this site seems to be a wealth of knowledge.
i see where remmy is coming from to an extent. my thought is that whether or not i'm in the country or city my eqipment and skills are still valid. what i use here for hunting, camping, packing, and woods skills, you can use anywhere. i.e. look at new orlans for instance. if put in a situation where i need to get out. if all else fails the pack goes on the back rifle in hand and i start walking. (kind of like hunting in the mountains) stop set up camp and am good to go. the concept of being stranded by rising water because i've lived 20 years in this neighborhood and don't know anything else is uterly foreign to me.
everyone can apply woods skills for survival in just about any environment. its all prepardness and the right mental state that you can survive. i personally dont get into the end of the world scenerios, however i am very interested in homesteading and independent living and have found some great info on here. (not to mention all of the survival info)
Ridge Wolf
03-25-2008, 12:42 PM
Rick,I would argue with you,but since I am female,I would have an unfair advantage:D:p
Hmmm. Are you saying that you feel that we are chauvinistic? :( I hope I don't personally come off that way.
nell67
03-25-2008, 12:44 PM
Nope,not at all,women are notorious for their arguing ability!
Ridge Wolf
03-25-2008, 12:50 PM
Nope,not at all,women are notorious for their arguing ability!
Oh.. ok. I'll agree with you there.. know that from experience... lol.. :D I can be a stubborn dutchman at times.. :D
I thought she was just saying that girls are smarter than Rick. My point was similar.....:D Mornin' Rick!:D
nell67
03-25-2008, 01:00 PM
LMAO! I wont argue with that one Trax:D
Sourdough
03-25-2008, 01:18 PM
It is all about the EGO: Everyone wants to bring the subject back to an area that they are respected for their expertise. If you know knives, that is what you want to talk about. If you know money, gold, real estate that is what you want to talk about. If you know survival shelters that is what you want to talk about. No one wants to be "OUT" of the conversation. No one wants to appear stupid. The forum is a bunch of "EGO's" looking for a chance to strut their stuff. Even the "long time members" is EGO STUFF. Junior/senior member is EGO STUFF. The whole forum is a space to sell advertising to people who want to get their EGO petted. Yes, Remy also, and yes, Me also.
Now your EGO is saying, "NOT ME".
wildWoman
03-25-2008, 01:27 PM
Well...that people did refer to downtown as wilderness or not is not the point.
The point is that both places work the same way, as you mention later in your post...like i said, the skills involved might be different, but the outcome is still survival.
Now, what we "aim" to survive is i think the key to our little conversation.
My field and interests are not without any controversy, call it pontificating if you will...but i see remarkably similar forces at play while talking about spear making or the economy...capsizing with your kayak or getting mugged in New York city.
If New York is not wilderness per definition and ease of communication, i still do not make a distinction, survival wise, between the two.
Back to our aim.
If you aim to survive a plain crash in the middle of nowhere...or a hunting accident, and i, an economic collapse or a pandemic, the end result, within a survival mood remains surviving. If you feel more "comfortable" talking from a "wilderness" point of you, i personally can do just that, since i can talk about economics through a wolf pack, or a salmon for all i care. Pandemics are present "in the wild" too...
What i mean, is that we think of all this as human problems, with human minds and through human eyes...when all in all, survival is universal, it touches every living organism.
And since it is a universal happening, calling it "wilderness survival" is...silly.
To be honest, what i would define as wilderness survival, would be so primitive, that none of us would fit the description. Even the most primitive guys on here still carry tools and clothes not fit for a "wilderness" title.
How is talking about generators and kayaks more "wildernessy" than how we distribute and manage our goods ?
The latest flashlight has room within wilderness survival ?
Tents ?
Rifles ?
Even knives ?
I don't know...you see, to me the line between those realms has no meanings.
Survival is survival...
What is more "wilderness survival" than native americans 500 years ago for example ?
Well...to some...not much.
Well...to me...native americans established communities...their survival skills, within wilderness, involved a lot of basic economic skills to go along with hunting or gathering skills. I never think about money in terms of "money"...but in terms of tradable items.
In the "wilderness", you might be trading paddle strokes, or steps, heat or water...makes no difference to me.
I am tired of this split between the concepts of wilderness survival, and city survival...it is a myth. Their is nothing amazing or extraordinary about living in the middle of a forest, or in an apartment in New York. Both individuals will have a certain work to do, both will face danger, doubt, joy...both will tend to thrive, and live a well rounded life...both are survivors because it is part of our DNA.
Beirut, Kosovo, new orleans, berlin...have all been the places of intense survival...of well determined individuals that understood all of the aspects of survival..."wilderness survival" is a term that i despise...because it evokes some kind of unresolved imagery of times where man was "better" not civilized, of times where it was "quiet", as if quietness was a jewel only found in remote areas. I call it the Christopher Columbus complex. Man vs. nature...give me a break. I piss on all those that climb Everest by the way.
Me and my knife...why not just you and your dick ?
Cities are indeed wilderness...concrete jungles where whores and crack heads reunite after dark, fathers and workers, buildings and roads, all life within it supported by the same forces that support your environment...by the same survival that brings us all here...If economic questions do not fit within your idea of what wilderness survival is, then you do not understand survival yet.
Money...you don't want to talk about money ?
You don't want to talk about SHTF ?
You do not want to talk about survival then...or maybe some kind of romanticized survival involving...involving what ?
Wilderness survival is not making candles out of pre-made wax or paper flutes with a comb...survival is hard work, and rests on a life or death stimuli. What if the SHTF where you are at...and your spouse becomes in need of medical assistance ? You will go to that city, you will think about economics to acquire what you need...you will need skills far beyond paddling...desperation, life or death needs...that is survival...and survival has no borders determined by what you call wilderness or not.
How can you acquire skills about a certain situation without understanding the basic mechanics of things ? It always baffles me to hear this...i just want the skill.
With just the skill pertaining to a specific situation you might be able to survive that situation...but on the other hand, if you understand the mechanics of that situation, you will be able to adapt this knowledge to any other situation!
It is the concept of the fish, or the fishing rod.
Most want a fish, thinking the fishing rod will be too much work, too heavy...too...
You want a knife, but no way will you learn about metals.
You want an extra light rifle, but in no way will you learn about alloys, mechanics, density, bullets, LOP's and so on...
I don't understand...i never did and probably never will.
If you understand muggers, fear, reactions, biology, physiology, forces, space, and yes economics and so on, you will acquire tools, knowledge, that will serve you for other situations.
My blog about fear, is not for you to think about "brain-waves", it is for you to understand that force, to manipulate it as you wish and when you wish...to understand how this force can be utilized within you, and within others...
Ahhh...too long.
:) yes too long...Wilderness does tend to get romantisised (can't even spell that). I don't feel that way about it, I live in it, and for me it's a neighbourhood. I have some nice animal neighbours, one laid-back and friendly young black bear and a couple curious moose, a resident hermine, and I get food and water form certain places just as people do in the city. I don't think wilderness can be ever "understood" by plucking it apart into its molecular pieces because the entity and spirit of it will evade the numbers and statistics. The essence of a moose is not it's age, weight, health, sex or habitat, it's also the moose inching it's way across rotten lake ice and frolicking in the water on a hot summer day. For myself, wilderness as a place where I feel at home and where animals start to interact with me happens when I let go of analytical thinking and follow my gut feeling. It is all so interwoven that if you follow one or 100 threads of thinking, science, theory, you're apt to miss the whole. I'm interested in how I as a human can live in it, fit in, because humans did just that for the vast, vast majority of time of our evolution. "Surviving" in it to me is a short-term thing that I personally feel is only helpful in an emergency. To me, wilderness speaks to something deeply human in me. Sunlight reflecting on water, a caribou almost stepping into my kayak, seeing uninterupted forest creep up the mountains makes me happy and feel alive in a way the city, town and village can't. That's why I'm interested in it.
Actually, Chuck has a forum on wilderness living as opposed to survival (wilderness as in wilderness, not city), if anyone wants to learn more skills. He's got the website listed on his public profile.
It is all about the EGO: Everyone wants to bring the subject back to an area that they are respected for their expertise. No one wants to appear stupid. The forum is a bunch of "EGO's" looking for a chance to strut their stuff. The whole forum is a space to sell advertising to people who want to get their EGO petted. Yes, Remy also, and yes, Me also.
Now your EGO is saying, "NOT ME".
I disagree hopeak, in fact that posting seems kind of bitter to me. I hope I'm wrong about that. Personally, I read a lot of threads before I ever joined and read a lot more before I ever voiced an opinion. I mentioned that my concern with some of the threads is the perception of new members coming in....looking for wilderness survival advice. I do read the economic threads, but seldom have a contribution to make. I'm always willing to learn more about either, the wilderness threads or the economy, and I think a lot of other people probably feel the same way.
I think if this was about EGO, a lot of people, myself included, would probably try to look like experts in areas where they have no real knowledge. We all know we have had plenty of that in the past too.
Alpine_Sapper
03-25-2008, 03:29 PM
I disagree hopeak, in fact that posting seems kind of bitter to me. I hope I'm wrong about that. Personally, I read a lot of threads before I ever joined and read a lot more before I ever voiced an opinion. I mentioned that my concern with some of the threads is the perception of new members coming in....looking for wilderness survival advice. I do read the economic threads, but seldom have a contribution to make. I'm always willing to learn more about either, the wilderness threads or the economy, and I think a lot of other people probably feel the same way.
I think if this was about EGO, a lot of people, myself included, would probably try to look like experts in areas where they have no real knowledge. We all know we have had plenty of that in the past too.
While I agree with what you say Trax, I also see what Hopeak says. Comments like "some people here have no skills, and their posts reflect it". That's a little egotistical sounding...Like saying you have all the skills and you can judge what another person can do just by what they post in the forums. While I understand what you're saying with that statement, and I'm not trying to pick on you, it struck me as a good example of what Hopeak was referring to.
Hell, I'm as egotistical as anyone else.
I try to tone it down a little. I don't try to appear to be an expert in an area where I'm not because I don't want to get anyone killed. Then there's a nasty lawsuit, etc. etc.
I think, with the possible exception of maybe Rick, that every member of the forum has been guilty of a little chest thumping every now and then. We're all human.
Sourdough
03-25-2008, 03:50 PM
I am not "BITTER". I made a "MISTAKE". I am not bitter at the forum. It was my mistake. I admit that I error-ed. I am sorry, but not bitter.
I thought (In error) that the forum was about teaching and sharing usefully information about "SURVIVAL" and specifically about "WILDERNESS " survival. It is not. It might wish it was, it might think it achieves that goal. It does not.
People want to help, yes. The "FORUM" fails as a Valid "TEACHING/LEARNING" TOOL....Period.
Is it entertaining, YES. Does it sell ADVERTISING, YES. Is it a community, YES. Is it "FUN", yes.
But if I want to learn about a subject about which I know nothing, say, "CANNING FOOD".
I would not trust what was said here. Some may be valid, some maybe invalid.
Am I bitter, NO...... Disappointed with the results, YES.....
I will not post about what I have learned from thousands of close Brown Bear encounters, only to have it marginalized by someone who's only Brown Bear experience is from a book, or the city zoo.
I wanted to know what size (Horsepower) Farm Tractor to buy. So I PM'ed BRAGG and got valuable, useful information about what works, and what he has bought that is useless. I want Information from someone who owns several tractors, not regurgitated information from a book on tractors.
Sad, yes. Disappointed, yes.......Bitter,..... NO
"some people here have no skills, and their posts reflect it".
I honestly don't recall having said that, it being in quotes it seems you're attributing it to me and if I did say it, I must have left some of whatever I was thinking at the time out and I apologize to anyone I may have offended with it.
Unless of course I posted it in regard to something I thought was really really wrong being said about the subject at hand. I do get a little uppity at times.
Alpine_Sapper
03-25-2008, 03:58 PM
"some people here have no skills, and their posts reflect it".
I honestly don't recall having said that, it being in quotes it seems you're attributing it to me and if I did say it, I must have left some of whatever I was thinking at the time out and I apologize to anyone I may have offended with it.
Unless of course I posted it in regard to something I thought was really really wrong being said about the subject at hand. I do get a little uppity at times.
It was paraphrased, and I may be wrong about that being attributed to you. I have read it several times on the forums though. I'm at work so I didn't have time to do a valid search on who orignally said it or the exact phrasing.
Hopeak - Where on the internet would you possibly go and get useful information that you know is correct? Not to pick on Bragg but what makes you certain his information is right? Maybe he looked it up? The forum is about everything you described including information on wilderness survival. Is there wrong information on gardening, sure. Tractor, sure. Wilderness survival, sure. It just inherent in the format. Any time you bring a diverse bunch of folks together with different backgrounds someone is going to say something that is wrong.
That's why it's important for people like you and wildwoman and WE and Trax and all the rest that live this life on a daily basis to step to the plate and say wait a minute. I've not seen anyone bashful about it yet. If I'm wrong, I want to be challenged. I say it because I believe it. Not to impress anyone. If I'm wrong and you educate me then I've learned something. Something I can keep with me the rest of my life. That's a pretty cool gift in my book. And I think the majority feel the same way.
And just because I'm feeling a little lonesome on this pedestal by myself , this is me beating my chest. (Thanks Alpine!!).
Alpine_Sapper
03-25-2008, 04:20 PM
My apologies Trax...I did attribute something to you you didn't say...
Here is what I was referring to, and it's a little different than I stated it:
"There are those on here who make claim to much experience, yet their posts reveal their ignorance in many areas"
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2236&page=2 , post #36, by Sarge. This was the last one that I read that came to mind.
:o
However, I also need to add that re-reading the post by Sarge it doesn't come across as I first percieved it.
It was paraphrased, and I may be wrong about that being attributed to you. I have read it several times on the forums though. I'm at work so I didn't have time to do a valid search on who orignally said it or the exact phrasing.
There have been some things said here that I have found just unbelievably stupid and I never hesitated in saying so. Someone wanting to throw ninja stars at a charging moose comes to mind. Nevertheless, for the most part I try to share what I am sure of, a long time ago someone said don't be posting things that you've never tried yourself and I follow that advice when it comes to outdoor stuff. My most important consideration is that someone doesn't get injured or worse because they followed my advice. I encourage new people to err on the side of caution, to try things at home or close to home before ranging out to where help is not available and to take extra precautions. Despite the teasing that I often use, I want others to be able to take from my experiences and have a more enjoyable experience in the outdoors (is in the outdoors an oxymoron? I digress) and I hope that people take the sarcasm and teasing in the spirit that it is meant in, fun. If not, well my bad I guess. If I'm "chest-thumping" when I state that I have certain expertise then so be it, I'm not going to pretend I'm stupid about something that I have knowledge of anymore than I'm going to pretend that I'm knowledgable about something I'm truly stupid about. We've beat it to death about outdoors versus state of the economy threads, but please note my lack of contributions on things like gardening. I suck at gardening, but I read very carefully all of the threads posted because I'm learning.
I'm at work too, by the way, and it's probably pissing my employers off to no end the lack of productivity coming out of my office since I discovered this forum. Oh well, I catch up. But, I am also a firm believer that each one of us owns what he or she says. We cannot throw statements out there that can be damaging and not bear the responsibility for that, whether the written word or in our day to day conversations. I find it unfortunate that many, many people these days don't think that. It makes us, in my opinion, less of a society and is indicative of much worse. Hence, if I never said something, I don't want people crediting me for it. I even try to get my quotes and sources properly accredited.
Alpine Sapper, I was typing all of this when you posted your response. I kindly accept your apology and state that no harm has been done.
crashdive123
03-25-2008, 04:24 PM
Here's a good example of what Rick is saying. On another thread Mitch was asking about crushing pills to save space. My reply was that dosage may be a problem, but should work. Rick and Canid were quick (and very correct) to point out some of the possible hazzards of doing that which I had not considered. That's why I like the forums. We get to share ideas and learn from others experience. If those with the most experience in an area don't post for whatever reason - we all lose. There is a large mix of practical experience in a variety of fields. I hope to learn from all of you, and hope that on occasion I might be able to share some of my experiences to help somebody.
Alpine_Sapper
03-25-2008, 04:29 PM
T
I'm at work too, by the way, and it's probably pissing my employers off to no end the lack of productivity coming out of my office since I discovered this forum.
lol. Yeah, you and me both. :)
Sourdough
03-25-2008, 04:37 PM
Hopeak - Where on the internet would you possibly go and get useful information that you know is correct? Not to pick on Bragg but what makes you certain his information is right? Maybe he looked it up? The forum is about everything you described including information on wilderness survival. Is there wrong information on gardening, sure. Tractor, sure. Wilderness survival, sure. It just inherent in the format. Any time you bring a diverse bunch of folks together with different backgrounds someone is going to say something that is wrong.
That's why it's important for people like you and wildwoman and WE and Trax and all the rest that live this life on a daily basis to step to the plate and say wait a minute. I've not seen anyone bashful about it yet. If I'm wrong, I want to be challenged. I say it because I believe it. Not to impress anyone. If I'm wrong and you educate me then I've learned something. Something I can keep with me the rest of my life. That's a pretty cool gift in my book. And I think the majority feel the same way.
And just because I'm feeling a little lonesome on this pedestal by myself , this is me beating my chest. (Thanks Alpine!!).
I just do not understand why it can not be improved. And Bragg owns two tractors, I could have asked a child in the inner-city who has never seen a real tractor. My point is we have knowledgeable members, and threads with 442 posts are entertaining, and confusing, just not clearly educational.
lol. Yeah, you and me both. :)
I'm waiting for someone to point out that "having fun and learning stuff" aren't in my job description. Mostly because I write the job descriptions around here, so I'll just change it :D
Well, Chris is trying to acquire software to be able to set up a wiki type environment. Then many of these subjects can be offloaded to that. Currently, we have to deal within the constraints of the software.
crashdive123
03-25-2008, 04:49 PM
Hopeak - when you need info and don't wnat bs, you found the way to get it on the forum. You pm'd somebody that you believed had the knowledge you sought. Another route that I've seen on the forum was for somebody to ask a question and put a qualifier on it to state that they only wanted responses from "experienced" individuals. I know that doesn't guarantee that you'll get it, but when dealing with faceless, namless souls you just never know. I mean, I could be a 12 year old just wanting to talk.
Which sort of goes to my point about Bragg. You had no assurances that he is who he says he is and that he does own two tractors. That's all. (I'm sure you do, Bragg. Just an example).
Tony uk
03-25-2008, 05:05 PM
If the econemy goes down then you need survival skills, No point talking about econemy collapse when no one knows survival skills, Just a thought, Althought i know people on here know plenty of survival skills
BraggSurvivor
03-25-2008, 05:15 PM
Not to pick on Bragg but what makes you certain his information is right? Maybe he looked it up?
Your not picking on me Rick, and thats a very valid comment. I mix MY financial life experiences with information I have research from the net. I could possibly be 99% wrong about everything. I admit it. But for the most part over the years my darts have hit their mark regarding personal, business and financial issues. Time will tell I guess. Its all a gamble, I just hedge my bets the best way I know.
hopeak asked me about tractors. I have two. Doesnt make me a tactor expert. I commented on the information I was given. I had no idea about the brand he was asking about, so I didnt comment. I know what mine will do for me and how well it does it. If I wanted to know about tractors, I would have asked on a farm forum site who's members put thousands of hours a year on their work horses. I put maybe 100 hours a year.
The last time I started a fire without using a 1/2 gallon of gasoline and a propane torch was thirty five years ago using a magnifying glass. Thats why I'm here. If a few people want to know about the life economics, thats why I'm here. If people want to know about what I have done setting up a homestead, thats why I'm here.
I'm no expert about anything. Its all good! Just glad to be here.
BraggSurvivor
03-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Which sort of goes to my point about Bragg. You had no assurances that he is who he says he is and that he does own two tractors. That's all. (I'm sure you do, Bragg. Just an example).
I know what you are saying Rick......thats why I post pics to prove it. I have nothing to hide or not hide.
crashdive123
03-25-2008, 09:24 PM
Think of the forum as an all you can eat buffet. Take what you want and leave the rest.
Ole WV Coot
03-25-2008, 09:38 PM
I gotta admit I have pretty strong opinions, not always right tho. I know I can screw up a two car funeral but I have learned a few things over the years. A lot of survivor stuff I grew up doing and have the scars to prove us hillbillys from KY don't know when to back off. I don't intentionally try to tick anyone off and what works for me might not for you. I may not agree with everyone but your opinion is as good as mine and I have plenty of space between my ears to put any information. I may disagree but I ain't trying to put you down.
awfoxden
03-26-2008, 04:44 PM
Hopeak - Where on the internet would you possibly go and get useful information that you know is correct? Not to pick on Bragg but what makes you certain his information is right? Maybe he looked it up? The forum is about everything you described including information on wilderness survival. Is there wrong information on gardening, sure. Tractor, sure. Wilderness survival, sure. It just inherent in the format. Any time you bring a diverse bunch of folks together with different backgrounds someone is going to say something that is wrong.
That's why it's important for people like you and wildwoman and WE and Trax and all the rest that live this life on a daily basis to step to the plate and say wait a minute. I've not seen anyone bashful about it yet. If I'm wrong, I want to be challenged. I say it because I believe it. Not to impress anyone. If I'm wrong and you educate me then I've learned something. Something I can keep with me the rest of my life. That's a pretty cool gift in my book. And I think the majority feel the same way.
And just because I'm feeling a little lonesome on this pedestal by myself , this is me beating my chest. (Thanks Alpine!!).
one thing ive noticed since being on here is that if a question is asked or a comment is made about anything you get instant feed back. feed back is a gift. i find that if 5 - 10 - or event 25 different people confirm or denie something that is a pretty strong argument that it is correct or incorrect.
however, opinions are like arm pits, everyone has at least two and they both usually stink.
take what you read with a grain of salt. if you want to try somthing new - ask how its done, but don't take my word for it - go out and try it for yourself. if my comments help you great, if they don't thats ok to. something may work for me that doesnt work for you. but at least you gave it a try and decided for yourself.
as for this forum. i agree that wilderness survival has been covered, however as a new member i don't neceseraly know its been covered in detail before and i havn't taken the time to sift through pages on pages of threads. what is nice that ive seen several times is if someone has a question, a more experienced person will link a past post. thanks for doing this. also it doesn't hurt to re-hash old topics that may be valid especially for newer members.
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1926 (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1176694)Beve (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1174229)фило (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543727)сбор (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1543289)Липа (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/597155)губе (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/843294)Jean (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1075277)cele (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1080797)Курб (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/360351)Lisa (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/511422)Fict (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/636257)Морг (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/904110)Коло (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1067910)PROM (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1320046)Dona (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1285825)
Trac (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515812)Conc (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878558)Have (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/878458)клон (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1033726)аспе (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1057159)Доро (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064456)*онь (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687236)Суле (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694649)Цвет (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1770344)Joyc (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775877)Мухи (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821354)XVII (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1062092)октя (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1854400)экза (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880219)Mann (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915320)
*жеш (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1495051)*ыба (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1541347)Thir (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1499714)Завя (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1617813)восп (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1453460)Неча (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1493849)Соро (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/365520)Roar (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/403043)Вахн (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/406121)авто (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1692721)Rich (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1125)Rich (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1125)Rich (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1125)Школ (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/485270)ребе (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/496337)
Генд (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/500578)Кобл (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/505050)Tony (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/489858)выру (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/501364)Subw (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1849468)Яким (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1899887)Bonu (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1918727)согл (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/793011)Isab (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/890574)роди (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/983050)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Попо (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/983446)Игар (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/485666)
yellowcab
12-23-2025, 12:21 PM
audiobookkeeper (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute (http://garbagechute.ru)
gardeningleave (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)
yellowcab
12-23-2025, 12:22 PM
laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
yellowcab
03-22-2026, 06:03 PM
Cloc (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/10943)138.15 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/68)пере (http://eyesvision.ru/physics/44)Conc (http://eyesvisions.com/physics/20)Скрж (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1465856)Добр (http://filmzones.ru/t/1389705)Безъ (http://gadwall.ru/t/1640244)Авто (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1352702)Закр (http://gageboard.ru/t/1250736)XVII (http://gagrule.ru/t/1225950)теле (http://gallduct.ru/t/1651505)Fant (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1662980)Macr (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1683266)Drif (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1703521)Stre (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1713222)
Ману (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1498282)John (http://gascautery.ru/t/1763624)Rose (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1751730)Para (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1802276)Vani (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1560127)Zone (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1859229)хоро (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1708296)Muri (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1382482)Кост (http://geartreating.ru/t/1382915)Тори (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1411429)Summ (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1532447)Naig (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1556590)Barr (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1556502)Guit (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1598457)VIII (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1372284)
Исае (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1441507)Бонд (http://habituate.ru/t/1378297)пред (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1377506)фокс (http://hackworker.ru/t/1685809)Asim (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1372548)Etie (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1373361)Шест (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1377993)Анне (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1384731)Jose (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1382234)клас (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1552355)Загл (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1440709)Ever (http://haltstate.ru/t/1581309)Pers (http://handcoding.ru/t/1643344)Reel (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1701741)шоу- (http://handradar.ru/t/1714947)
mail (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1770749)Тург (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1566311)John (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1560152)Judi (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1256547)зани (http://hardasiron.ru/t/1253458)Смир (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1375808)Васк (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1369197)Акад (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1372541)Кузи (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1581575)Fall (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1548278)Almo (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1548326)Circ (http://headregulator.ru/t/1548344)техн (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1677200)(192 (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1386698)Пого (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1588076)
писа (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1351863)fili (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/1016500)Богу (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1248148)Стар (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1712011)Гост (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1346855)Ленф (http://jobstress.ru/t/1470606)англ (http://jogformation.ru/t/1370702)Осок (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1469976)Посп (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1376052)связ (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1588261)авто (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1373719)Thom (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1417725)Орес (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1342498)Угло (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1248735)Огла (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1345879)
Sams (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1182392)Поно (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1249590)Кисе (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1357222)Wood (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1405426)влад (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1351838)Изда (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1253548)полу (http://keyserum.ru/t/1410381)Esca (http://kickplate.ru/t/1662923)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1783674)Мазе (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1387781)Toug (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1703309)Anim (http://kinozones.ru/film/16)Сипо (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1441523)Ново (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1439555)Sams (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1773896)
Gugl (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1560359)язык (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1566967)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549821)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1548622)Worl (http://laborracket.ru/t/1713045)Hoff (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1951381)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1549736)asic (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1373263)авто (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1437349)Take (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1658579)Монт (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1631270)рома (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1351809)Комс (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1226774)Осип (http://laggingload.ru/t/1353876)ткач (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1349411)
геро (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1385374)чита (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1630271)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1783944)Богд (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1355239)Карц (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1250170)Robi (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1240319)Erns (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1247120)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711744)Курл (http://landreform.ru/t/1374241)Stan (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1312434)кино (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1490899)клей (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160271)Мель (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/577782)Dolb (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/187)наро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/589766)
yellowcab
03-22-2026, 06:04 PM
Сучи (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031037)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451579)Прои (http://layabout.ru/shop/451431)конс (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/101254)Foli (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/104818)Дады (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/432124)Мато (http://leaveword.ru/shop/156602)Esca (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/145203)*ома (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/301925)Кита (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/146487)Кост (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/109034)Laba (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/268770)Соло (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/159468)Воро (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159509)VOLK (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613407)
собо (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/597717)хиру (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/869)imag (http://mp3lists.ru/item/10943)Scot (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/397576)деко (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104544)конт (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/459363)Потс (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/305666)игру (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/100177)Winx (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100713)иску (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454323)wwwi (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/160688)Kiss (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/179873)Щего (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/264188)лист (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108463)DeLo (http://observationballoon.ru)
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