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kyratshooter
03-23-2013, 12:41 PM
I have a 1997 Jeep Cherokee; 4L/4wd auto trans. It is suffering the common problem to that geniere of having a bad neutral safety switch.

That particular part is a $300 item and will be two days work and can be bypassed in several ways, the least offensive of which is wiring a secondary starter button to the solinoid on the starter.

My googlefoo skills have failed me! Software difficulties.

I can not find a diagram or picture showing which of the poles on the solinoid I should attach the wires for the new starter button too.

I am supposed to hook one lead to the power input but I do not know which of the other poles is the ignition contact.

The solinoid is attached to the starter on this unit, not that it makes any difference. It just means I want to know what I am doing and only make one trip under the vehicle. It's cold out there, and the ground is wet and I'm too old to be fooling with this crap!

cwi555
03-23-2013, 12:56 PM
You can bypass it, but remember the NSS does more than just prevent you from starting it in gear.
It feeds the range selection to your electonically shifted transmission. Without that signal, you will eventually burn said transmission out.

kyratshooter
03-23-2013, 01:09 PM
That is why I want to go through the solinoid rather than bypass through the wires of the switch.

I can cross the two leads, one in and one out, of the switch but I will lose input to the crusie, my back up lights and part of the EGR to the computer.

All of that is presently working, it is just that every once in a while the NSS refuses to make contact and allow me to start the vehicle. Oddly, it always starts at home and refuses to start in the Kroger parking lot when the snow is blowing sideways and the temp is zero.

This is my dedicated "butt deep in snow and creek wading rig" and I need to know it is going to start, espically when back in the boonies.

A simple lead and button to the solinoid will allow me to turn the switch on and hit the button if the NSS fails me in the "start mode".

I am quite certain that if I install the bypass button the unit will never give me another problem.

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 04:37 PM
Kyrat,

I would think about wiring a simple toggle switch across the neutral safety switch. Then before starting you can close the switch around the NSS and as soon as the engine starts, open the toggle switch so it doesn't interfere with the other operations of that circuit.
I realize that is sort of a jury rig solution but it would work as long as the NSS is just a 2 wire switch, and it would keep you old ancient azz from being under the Jeep too long:smartass:

Never mind it isn't a 2 wire switch darnit

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 04:47 PM
Kyratt,

Maybe all you need to do is adjust the switch! From what I am reading there is an adjustment nut!

On an automatic 1997 Jeep Cherokee with the inline 6 cyl 4.0L the neutral switch is combined with the Park and reverse switch. To repair the switch, unplug the harness from the top of the engine near the transmission dip stick. The switch is located on the passenger side of the transmission, right on the side. There is a bolt and a nut which must be removed, the bolt is for adjustment of the switch position and is near the top. The larger nut (Collet type) is near the bottom and is centered over an oval shaped shaft protruding from the transmission... BE WARNED!!!! these switches are VERY EXPENSIVE (~$160)!!!! so tread carefully and try not to break it. Mine was seized to the shaft and broke into about 8 pieces, luckily I have the know how to be able to repair them. You can free up the switch from the shaft with penetrating oil and pry against the loosened nut with a screwdriver while taping lightly on the shaft to back the switch off of the shaft. Inside the switch there is a problem where the grease gells over time and the wiper contacts stick away from the base contacts therefore they do not always make connection. Once you get the switch off in one piece, it is easily serviced by removing the screws on the back and slowly opening the case. Some of my screws were frozen and I had to break them off and drill out the holes, you may be lucky and get the screws out without this problem. When you have the switch apart I suggest you use a clean surface and put some cardboard down to catch any parts that fall out. Once open, you will see 2 copper wipe plates on the wiper arm, slowly remove them and under them you will see a spring for each side. Clean all the surfaces with brake cleaner or WD-40, you can burnish the contacts with a very fine 340 grit sandpaper. Once done reassemble putting a VERY thin layer of grease on the contacts to help prevent corrosion and allow the contacts to slide easier. Once you have put the module/switch back on make sure that the adjuster bolt is set in the right place... Put it on and make sure the reverse lights come on and it cranks in park. Tighten the adjuster bolt and put the nut back on and double check. NOTE: make sure you plug the harness back in or nothing will work lol.

I want to add that the hardest part is getting the switch off. When you remove the Collet nut be sure to release it first by prying back the tabs on the retaining nut. (Note: when reinstalling, this nut is to be re-tightened to ONLY 5 INCH pounds!) After removal of the Collet nut, spray some parts buster or WD-40 onto the shaft area and let it sit. Put the Collet nut back on but not all the way tight and use a screw driver to pry the unit forward from the shaft SLOWLY!. Don't get carried away when it starts moving. When reinstalling put some never seize on the tranny output shaft in case you have to do this in the future.


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_replace_a_safety_neutral_switch_on_a_19 97_Jeep_Cherokee_Sport

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 04:56 PM
Kyratt,

There are some PDF files that have the schematics you need on this link You will have to create a free account to view them!

http://www.imarksweb.org/book/wire+schematics+for+97+jeep/

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 05:08 PM
Kyrat most if not all starter solenoids have only 1 hot terminal. The other terminal will have a strap or a wire that goes right through the side of the starter. It gets it's ground through the starter. The hot terminal will normally be the one furthest away from the body of the starter, and will normally only have one wire connected to it.

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 05:12 PM
It's the top terminal in this picture! This should be a picture of your starter by the way!

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/Rocketman14/31SpzU8r-qL__SL500_SS500_starter_zpsa13198e6.jpg

hunter63
03-23-2013, 05:24 PM
I used to get an old VW started by shorting that top terminal to ground to crank it.......with a screwdriver or pocket knife.
Wound need some pretty big wire and switch as it draws a LOT of juice.

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 05:25 PM
Here is a schematic dude! Copy it off on your computor and blow it up where you can see it

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/Rocketman14/0900c152800a9e13schematic_zps956b16e8.jpg

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 05:28 PM
I used to get an old VW started by shorting that top terminal to ground to crank it.......with a screwdriver or pocket knife.
Wound need some pretty big wire and switch as it draws a LOT of juice.

Yeah around 50 amp! He needs to just clean the neutral safety switch as the the above procedure explains, but he would probably never be able to crawl out from under the Jeep, and would be under thee all night:scared:

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 05:40 PM
It looks like a PITA to get to!

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/Rocketman14/nss2PITA_zps63b280e1.jpg

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 05:50 PM
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/Rocketman14/1-2disaseminternalsofNSS_zps4f46badb.jpg

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/Rocketman14/78544519NSSadjuster_zps6aeb1577.gif

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 05:53 PM
Kyrat, it looks like the adjusting bolt will put more pressure on the contacts and may help make the circuits as designed. It may be worth a shot buddy, good luck and stay thursty my friend:smartass:

welderguy
03-23-2013, 06:01 PM
HHHHMMM would a NSS from a 94 model with a 318 V8 be the same , I may have one at the shop!

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 06:07 PM
Kyratt after thinking about your problem some more, the only right way to wire a forced start switch would be to wire a toggle switch to your start relay, not directly to the solenoid, that way you wouldn't need a high current switch, just a cheap toggle switch in the dash would start the vehicle. Of course the right way to fix it is to either clean and adjust your NSS or replace it.

ElevenBravo
03-23-2013, 06:17 PM
Oddly, Ive been down the same road... A little newer XJ, bu same problem...

I found EBAY had NSS units a LOT cheaper than anyone else!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1997+jeep+xj+nss&_osacat=0&clk_rvr_id=461510099296&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=1997+jeep+xj+neutral+safety&_sacat=0&_from=R40

I got one off of bay and had a mechanic replace it, my work schedule and need for the vehicle's quick turn around necessitated someone else do the work.

There are articles about tearing one down and cleaning up the contacts, but with that.. YMMV. If your broke and have plenty of time, I guess fixing the current NSS is a good option. However YMMV with the end results, just keep that in mind.

GL,
EB

crashdive123
03-23-2013, 06:22 PM
I had a 1970 Pinto that had a bad NSS. No biggie - I just started it in park......until that went out too. My solution was to wire a push button switch across the starter (was more efficient than the screwdriver across the terminals) and mount it in a piece of plexiglass which was then hinged to the floor boards. A couple of springs under it ensured that it would not stay depressed. Worked like a champ for a long time.

hunter63
03-23-2013, 07:16 PM
Knife across to terminals have saved a long walk many times.

Old VW had the engine in the back, ignition switch on the dash, and 6 volt battery under the seat......lots of wired and terminals in between.
Some times just a wire wiggle did the trick....but the final solution was to wire in an old Ford solenoid in series to help "Kick it" off.

Was leaving a night tech school at 9:30 on a cold winter night....snowing and blowing, came across my computer instructor (old FORTRAN and COBOL programming), in which I was not doing well at all...We had words about it class....he couldn't understand how I couldn't see how it worked.

His VW wouldn't start, and as we were the last cars in the lot.....I stopped...did the under dash wire wiggle, then hit the terminals with my knife, away it went.
I let him know that he would have to take it in, have it serviced or repaired.....and was about to leave.

Then he says, well you don't know about computers, but do know about cars.....I guess we all have our weaknesses"

He was much more help after that.....LOL

Didn't have much to do with this thread.....but was bored, so thought I would tell the story.......

Rick
03-23-2013, 07:24 PM
Didn't have much to do with this thread.....but was bored, so thought I would tell the story.......

Us old guys do tend to get that way don't we? LOL.

hunter63
03-23-2013, 07:30 PM
Oh lookie ...a shiny nickel..........squirrel!

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 08:45 PM
Well I'm getting worried about Kyrat. I'm afraid he is laying under the Jeep frozen to the ground. After all of the stories and help we have tried to give him, you would think that he would at least check in:angry:

Wildthang
03-23-2013, 08:57 PM
Well Hunter, wait up until Kyrat comes back, and make sure he's alright, we are going to bed and watching a movie:smartass:

hunter63
03-24-2013, 11:22 AM
I'm watching Pale Rider for the 237 time........

Wildthang
03-25-2013, 12:30 PM
Hey Kyrat, did you get your Jeep fixed!

nell67
03-25-2013, 01:23 PM
Hmmm the BF's neutral safety switch went out on his Mazda truck last week,kept blowing fuses,and we changed the part out,worked for about 4 hours,then same thing again,so he turns the key switch into the on position BEFORE any lights come on,then moves the shift into neutral ,starts and shifts it to drive......he says may be his new anti theft device

kyratshooter
03-25-2013, 04:17 PM
Hey Kyrat, did you get your Jeep fixed!

Not fixed yet!

I am waiting for the ground temp to go above 70 before I crawl under there.

I have a second car for getting around so I am not hurting for transportation.

Since 11B posted the cheaper NSS units I have decided to get a new unit. No sense going under there to wire a starter button or clean the 16 year old one if I can get a new one for under $150.

I understand that almost all of them break with removal when they are as old as mine, so repair of the origional is possible but not probable. I am guarenteed to break it anyway, since it is a plastic unit with 16 years of salt crud , mud and water ageing it already. It is the same amount of work so why not use a new part?

I just want to get it back on the road for summer camping, pulling up tree stumps and boat towing.

Thanks for all the help from everyone.

ElevenBravo
03-26-2013, 03:37 PM
Yeah, a new unit is going to be best IMHO... You can keep the old one and mess with it at leisure... maybe try to "rebuild it". Read up on Oooogle on how to align the NSS, its not rocket science, but maybe a PIA.

Gl,
EB

hunter63
03-26-2013, 04:11 PM
Crawling around under a vehicle in the snow and mud is a PITA.....anymore.....LOL
Fix it, I'll be in the waiting room, having a coffee, watching Oprah.

Rick
03-27-2013, 09:31 AM
The good thing about working under a car in mud is it's a lot easier to slide out from under it.

Where'd you get the coffee? Is anything else on?

Wildthang
03-27-2013, 10:14 AM
Kyrat need a shop to work in. I think he needs to get off of some of that money and build a pole barn so he can fix his stuff and quit griping about it being cold:smartass:

hunter63
03-27-2013, 11:24 AM
Kyrat need a shop to work in. I think he needs to get off of some of that money and build a pole barn so he can fix his stuff and quit griping about it being cold:smartass:

He is wiser than you think.......You will have "friends"
"Hi, how's it going....remember me? I met you 3 years ago over at such and such saloon....you still got that shop?...
Yeah well, can you move all your stuff out of my way?, fire up the stove.....I gotta put break pads on DD car, and need a warm place to work.

"Coffee on".....?

"Yeah thanks again, shouldn't take ya too long to get all that oil off your floor...sorry about than, gotta go, see ya sometime....I'll buy ya a beer....maybe"

kyratshooter
03-27-2013, 01:33 PM
Have a neighbor with a nice shop but he has gotten real sick of late and I hate to impose on him. We rebuilt his John Deere garden tractor a couple of years ago after he bought a new one. The new one has been sitting in the shed without being used ever since we finished repairing the old one.

When the weather warms up a bit I will take care of this. It's been a while since I spent the day under a vehicle. Probably going on 10 years. I have had a strech of good vehicles! this Jeep is a '97 and has not needed a repair to keep it running until now, and this is not a major issue, just an irritation.

The last one I really worked on was my '93 Ranger. I replaced everything that could be bolted on and taken off in the 500,000 miles I put on it.

finallyME
03-27-2013, 03:39 PM
Knife across to terminals have saved a long walk many times.

Old VW had the engine in the back, ignition switch on the dash, and 6 volt battery under the seat......lots of wired and terminals in between.
Some times just a wire wiggle did the trick....but the final solution was to wire in an old Ford solenoid in series to help "Kick it" off.

Was leaving a night tech school at 9:30 on a cold winter night....snowing and blowing, came across my computer instructor (old FORTRAN and COBOL programming), in which I was not doing well at all...We had words about it class....he couldn't understand how I couldn't see how it worked.

His VW wouldn't start, and as we were the last cars in the lot.....I stopped...did the under dash wire wiggle, then hit the terminals with my knife, away it went.
I let him know that he would have to take it in, have it serviced or repaired.....and was about to leave.

Then he says, well you don't know about computers, but do know about cars.....I guess we all have our weaknesses"

He was much more help after that.....LOL

Didn't have much to do with this thread.....but was bored, so thought I would tell the story.......

When I was 16, we had an old VW vanagan. I had to crawl under it with a big screwdriver and short something to start it. Never new why, until now. It impressed all my dates though. :)

hunter63
03-27-2013, 03:52 PM
Had to do that on the top of the mountain, on the Blue Ridge Parkway, in a pouring rain, with my pocket knife....as the VW died....was so overloaded, and over heated it quit

Turned out that it was running bad (therefore hot) because of a brand new condenser, I had installed as part of a tune up prior to starting the trip.
It went bad......don't you ever believe just because a part is new....I can't be bad.
Had no idea what the problem was...as it was NEW, right?

Replaced it and was back in business after basically coasting down into Cherokee, NC.

Rick
03-27-2013, 05:19 PM
Coasting on the interstate. Yeah, did that once in a downpour with a cracked distributor cap. Made pretty fire out the tailpipe though. Thankfully, it was a company car.

hunter63
03-27-2013, 05:27 PM
Coasting on the interstate. Yeah, did that once in a downpour with a cracked distributor cap. Made pretty fire out the tailpipe though. Thankfully, it was a company car.

Yeah, and people will pull up along side, honk, point, and tell you you have a problem.....Like, No shut dick tracey, you outta be in here".....LOL gotta love it.