Airguns for survival?

[George Harkenrider]

I've been recently considering the use of airguns for a survival/societal collapse situation as a method of hunting undetected, any thoughts?

[Wildthang]

Hello George, and welcome to our forum. With one post on your register, it is apparent that you didn't introduce yourself. Please go to the introduction thread and tell us a little about yourself.

Now on air guns. My opinion is that they would be good for small game gathering, and very stealth as long as you choose the supressed type air gun. But I would have something with a little more punch for personal defense. I have head of models that will take down a ferrel hog but getting an air charge on long stays in the wilderness would be much harder than simply carrying some standard ammo for a .22 magnum or a .223 rifle. I think a good old bolt action rifle is hard to beat in a survival situation but that's just my opinion!

[Mozartghost1791]

However the kind you can pump up over and over again that use bbs at high fps or lead pellets are useful for birds and small game if you know where to shoot... I've used one myself and it's good for birds, squirrels, pack rats (not implying that I've ever used it on pack rats but I'm just saying)... An airgun that would take down a feral hog would be a freak production of the mad science industry. I don't see how you'd get enough power without a dive-tank full of air for every shot.

[Wildthang]

However the kind you can pump up over and over again that use bbs at high fps or lead pellets are useful for birds and small game if you know where to shoot... I've used one myself and it's good for birds, squirrels, pack rats (not implying that I've ever used it on pack rats but I'm just saying)... An airgun that would take down a feral hog would be a freak production of the mad science industry. I don't see how you'd get enough power without a dive-tank full of air for every shot.

Well there is a video I think on Youtube where a guy shoots a hog DRT. I have a Benjamin pellet pistol that fits in my backpack nicely, and will put a squirrel right down. Pellet rifles are a very useful tool, and can be used to bring in food for survival, but my opinion is that if you are going to pack around something in the woods, it might as well be good for defense and game as well, and I would not want to trust a pellet rifle to defend myself. Most pellet rifles weigh in almost as heavy as a bolt action .22 rifle, and the .22 will definately bring in more meat and provide a fair amount of self defense if needed.

[hunter63]

Air guns have their place, mine are for BYBs......in the city, and do well on rabbits and such.

Short range, and are just about as noisy as a .22 'short".

So in my opinion better than nothing I suppose....just don't even think about self protection....some one with a real gun will ruin your day.

[Wildthang]

Well there is a video I think on Youtube where a guy shoots a hog DRT. I have a Benjamin pellet pistol that fits in my backpack nicely, and will put a squirrel right down. Pellet rifles are a very useful tool, and can be used to bring in food for survival, but my opinion is that if you are going to pack around something in the woods, it might as well be good for defense and game as well, and I would not want to trust a pellet rifle to defend myself. Most pellet rifles weigh in almost as heavy as a bolt action .22 rifle, and the .22 will definately bring in more meat and provide a fair amount of self defense if needed.
And in a social collapse, you really need a gun with more range and knock down power than a pellet rifle!

[GreatUsername]

Also consider a bow for undetected hunting, because your rate of fire will be better than many air-rifles, and your noise will be less than any firearm, while retaining some of the greater killing power. It may be harder to use on small game, but you can always use slingshots for those. The biggest reason I'd want a bow or slingshot over an air-rifle is that they are very mechanically simple in comparison, which means fewer small and irreplaceable parts to break.

[natertot]

good thinking greatusername! I agree with ya!

[randyt]

it depends, 1000 rounds of 17 cal pellets weigh about a pound. 500 rounds of 22 cb longs weigh about 3 pounds. Depends on what you plan on shooting. It sure wouldn't be a running and gunning gun but for small birds and mammals it could come in handy.

[Dropy]

I like the idea of a pellet gun for small game gathering. BUT I like the .22 cal pellet guns best. And sometimes you can harvest the pellets from the game and use them again.

[George Harkenrider]

Thanks for the input, I have a makarov that I would be using for personal defense, I would never consider an airgun for that, I probably should have said that though. The point on taking along some .223 or .22 magnum is something I didn't really think about at first but since you brought it up I got to thinking about it and it would probably be really smart. I'll make sure I make a post in the introduction thread.

[GreatUsername]

Just to perpetuate the endless feud: ".22 LR can be used for self-defense, it's all about shot placement!" ;)

[Psalm25]

I like the idea of a pellet gun for small game gathering. BUT I like the .22 cal pellet guns best. And sometimes you can harvest the pellets from the game and use them again.

I picked up a .22 cal Beeman pellet gun last year. Beautiful looking gun with a nice scope. I got it for shooting rats around the barn. Only problem is I didn't notice it has no sights on it, only a scope! Kind of useless since the rats only come out at night. It is great for small game though.

[George Harkenrider]

Just to perpetuate the endless feud: ".22 LR can be used for self-defense, it's all about shot placement!" ;)

I agree with you on that one

[Stiffy]

I like the idea of a pellet gun for small game. Even though I recently got a .22 rifle, I'm still looking for a Benjamin pump pellet gun.

[GreatUsername]

I agree with you on that one

FYI: that's a bit of a running joke/controversy here. Now, granted, a .22 rifle is superior to an airgun for self-defense, and would be my first choice for a bug-out weapon, because it is sufficient for everything, but it is also ideal for little other than quiet taking of small game with a low cost for ammo (both monetarily and weight-wise)

[Mozartghost1791]

Though its next to worthless for self defense a 66 powermaster (by crossman) pump up bb gun is dead accurate, quiet, and can take small game up to a squirrel.... You could get a lot of small bird/rat type animals with it and it holds about 200 bbs... each one capable of getting you a small food item. Though a slingshot is mechanically simpler, and it is possible to be accurate with it, I have had much less luck with a sling shot than I have with a 66 powermaster bb gun. Also, the capacity to carry huge amounts of ammo for next to indefinite hunting periods is useful. Mine has had a few problems with the pump mechanism but other than that still shoots bottle caps off a fence at 15 yards after 8 years of use. It also comes with a clip that lets you shoot .177 lead pellets to do more damage, but unfortunately I lost my clip after I got the gun and only got to use it once or twice. Without the clip it is impossible to shoot the .177 pellets.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

The Primary Rule -- Ya uses what ya got.

While I have, in fact, been quite successful in "harvesting" small game - squirrels and such - with a one-pump (aka spring-loaded) pellet gun, I would much rather have a .22 rimfire rifle for this task. Having a .22 rimfire greatly expands the "target population" to include very many other animules.

The lesson here, for me anyway, is to maximize the effect of whatever you have on hand. And I recognize that this constitutes a rather significant logic leap. I have obviously sacrificed detail for brevity.

-- Nighteyes

[Wildthang]

I have found with most of my pellet rifles, that somehwere around 30 yards the wind and gravity takes over and it is almost impossible to bring down critters at that distance with a pellet rifle. So like I said before, if I am going to carry around a 5 pound rifle, it may as well be a .22 that I can reach out and touch something with!

[George Harkenrider]

I have a couple of the crosman rifles, and the one seems to be accurate out to 200 yards, but I haven't tried hunting with it at that distance, but it did penetrate drywall.

[Mozartghost1791]

The 66 powermaster is significantly lighter than either the 22 or the one-pump pellet gun. Though I agree that a 22 can take down more kinds of game, from a longer distance and more quickly killing some things like squirrels... The 66 powermaster is really quite accurate and the shots it fires are quiet... and as I have said, nearly infinite ammo. If you have a 22 already and a little extra room in your backpack/pack frame I would reccomend the 66 powermaster for taking down large quantities of small game quietly without using up all your .22 ammo. Though you do need to get a little closer to kill stuff, most small birds/rodents are too far away to hit accurately anyway by the time they are out of the 66 powermaster's range. You wouldn't want to waste your 22 ammo on doves - birds - rats at that range anyway.

[George Harkenrider]

My favorite airgun is the Benjamin discovery that they make. you have to carry a pump with you if you want more than 30 shots, but it's super light, and you can take apart the pump. Pellet gun ammo is just so much easier to stock up on too, especially now, yesterday I went to Gander Mountain, and the ammo racks were literally bare except for some .22 subsonic and birdshot. The pellet aisle was loaded though :thumbup1:

[Eastree]

My favorite airgun is the Benjamin discovery that they make. you have to carry a pump with you if you want more than 30 shots, but it's super light, and you can take apart the pump. Pellet gun ammo is just so much easier to stock up on too, especially now, yesterday I went to Gander Mountain, and the ammo racks were literally bare except for some .22 subsonic and birdshot. The pellet aisle was loaded though :thumbup1:

I wish that were the case here. I purchased a springer air rifle a couple months back, for some quiet in-the-neighborhood (as in back yard, without scaring any twitchy neighbors) practice, because pellets are cheaper than conventional bullets, and I assumed there would be pellets where other ammunition had sold out. Local panic buying of ammo has nearly everything off the shelves, although somehow K-Mart had some bird shot 20-gauge on deep clearance shortly after the shortages began. I've found, at best, three tins TOPS of cheap-o wadcutter pellets at any one place, and usually only at one or two places of the several in my area. I'm thankful there are places like yours, though, because I can still order what I need online. I went to a couple places with my future father-in-law a couple weeks ago. Hunting guns (wood stock rifles and shotguns, maybe some synthetic stock models as well) are available, but ammo is gone -- just gone.

But still, I'm glad I have one I can use for taking a few squirrels if need be.

[Mozartghost1791]

Ammo all gone huh? Sounds like it's time to go primitive. I wonder how hard it would be to make a mechanical (as opposed to firearm) weapon that has comparable range and accuracy to modern guns... a spring-steel crossbow-type thing that shoots lead balls? I guess guns are all the rage these days, and I can't blame you... but one thing I know is that if we all get hit by the 'big one' anytime soon, I'm gonna have ways of getting food other than guns. Fishing... Foraging... Primitive deadfalls, rat traps, bow and arrow... None of these does much in the way of self defense but then again, if you are staked out in one area a lot can be done in the way of booby traps/sneak attacks that you can use after spending a little time reading up.... I ain't for gun control, but the end of guns isn't the end of the world when it comes to survival. The more you know, the less you need to have to survive.

[GreatUsername]

The more important thing to recognize is that hunting is only a stopgap solution, as is living off natural resources. If post-economic collapse (Were such a thing to happen) society was all a bunch of berry-picking, fishing, hunting, and foraging, far more people will starve due to rapidly depleted resources. If you are serious about food after a collapse, store up farming supplies, and learn how to grow and preserve enough food for the year. To think you can sustain hunting and gathering long-term is irresponsible, because of how much of the population would have to die off for that to be feasible.

[Mozartghost1791]

Yeah, I agree... but the percentage of folks who live in the cities and will probably die in the cities due to riots, fights over resources, disease, and starvation would certainly cut down on those who would be using the 'natural' resources. Same thing with most folks who live in towns... or just the vast majority of people who don't know zilch about nature or primitive living... The ones that survive the first couple months will have formed 'communities' to try to suit their needs as a group, improvise and probably come to some sort of sustainability if they aren't constantly being raided by other groups.
When you say living off the land isn't sustainable... it isn't if EVERYONE is doing it... but even though a lot of folks on this forum could live off the land, 99 percent of everyone else can't. That's a lot less people to compete with already. The problem with a farm is that there's a huge chance that it is a major target of 'food raids' cause most people know what a farm is.... So even though a farm makes the most sense for self sustainability in a stable society... unless you have an army to guard it its probably not the best place to be when the hungry, angry mob hits.

[crashdive123]

Ammo all gone huh? Sounds like it's time to go primitive. I wonder how hard it would be to make a mechanical (as opposed to firearm) weapon that has comparable range and accuracy to modern guns... a spring-steel crossbow-type thing that shoots lead balls? I guess guns are all the rage these days, and I can't blame you... but one thing I know is that if we all get hit by the 'big one' anytime soon, I'm gonna have ways of getting food other than guns. Fishing... Foraging... Primitive deadfalls, rat traps, bow and arrow... None of these does much in the way of self defense but then again, if you are staked out in one area a lot can be done in the way of booby traps/sneak attacks that you can use after spending a little time reading up.... I ain't for gun control, but the end of guns isn't the end of the world when it comes to survival. The more you know, the less you need to have to survive.

There's a reason firearms were developed......just sayin'.

[Mozartghost1791]

Yeah, there is a reason they were developed. Because someone in China invented gunpowder, and someone in Europe discovered that a machine launching projectiles at high speed with gunpowder could do more damage with less mechanical bulk or effort than the other weapons of the time could. Those two discoveries almost 1000 years ago are what led to the enduring legacy of gunpowder. Just imagine what modern research could develop. Firearms aren't here because they are the best and most efficient weapon that ever COULD be developed... but rather they are here because they are the best weapon that WAS developed and no one bothered to invent anything else to take their place because they did their job well.
I agree that firearms are the best option available today for self defense and hunting... but there are other methods to do said, and a resourceful person would recognize that, rather than calculate his odds of survival in direct proportion to his stash of guns and ammo.

[GreatUsername]

Yeah, there is a reason they were developed. Because someone in China invented gunpowder, and someone in Europe discovered that a machine launching projectiles at high speed with gunpowder could do more damage with less mechanical bulk or effort than the other weapons of the time could. Those two discoveries almost 1000 years ago are what led to the enduring legacy of gunpowder. Just imagine what modern research could develop. Firearms aren't here because they are the best and most efficient weapon that ever COULD be developed... but rather they are here because they are the best weapon that WAS developed and no one bothered to invent anything else to take their place because they did their job well.
I agree that firearms are the best option available today for self defense and hunting... but there are other methods to do said, and a resourceful person would recognize that, rather than calculate his odds of survival in direct proportion to his stash of guns and ammo.

That reminds me...
The wheel was invented tens of thousands of years ago in Mesopotamia. That discovery led to the enduring legacy of round wheels. Just imagine what modern research could develop. Wheels aren't here because they are the best and most efficient adjunct to transportation that ever COULD be developed, but rather they are here because they are the best that WAS developed and no one bothered to invent anything else to take their place because they did their job well.

Pardon my snark, but I think that it would be a hard sell to change from gunpowder-based projectile lobbers :P
However, I do agree that too much emphasis of survival (in certain contexts) is put on firearms. However, in urban natural disasters, and in case of unlawful martial law, firearms do have their place. Booby-traps and bows will only get you so far. There's a reason the natives of every culture that was introduced to firearms late in the game were quick to adopt "thundersticks".

[Mozartghost1791]

I don't have anything against people wanting to have guns. It's just that some of these survival sites seem to focus almost exclusively on 'end of the world' scenarios and people talking about guns. The main point I mean to make is that though they make it easier, guns aren't necessary to survival, and they shouldn't be the exclusive focus of survivalists. There are also alternatives to guns and just because they aren't quite as good, people are completely ignoring them here. In a real survival situation the chances are that you won't have a gun... maybe not even a knife. If it's more of a hunting-camping scenario you would have a gun, but your ammo won't last forever. In the end of the world scenario... I would like it if they devoted a different section of the site to that rather than make the whole site and the very term 'survival' into some sort of violent soap opera. Maybe I'm just in the wrong place and should look for a site about primitive wilderness living rather than keeping a gun on you at all times. I own guns but the only time I carry them is when I'm hunting. If I got stranded in a plane crash or lost camping, chances are I ain't armed to the teeth. If the world ends... well let's just say that's another topic altogether.

[George Harkenrider]

Maybe there should be a term for a pre-forseeable collapse of society in which there was time to grab essentials and go.

[Mischief]

The Primary Rule -- Ya uses what ya got.

While I have, in fact, been quite successful in "harvesting" small game - squirrels and such - with a one-pump (aka spring-loaded) pellet gun, I would much rather have a .22 rimfire rifle for this task. Having a .22 rimfire greatly expands the "target population" to include very many other animules.





The lesson here, for me anyway, is to maximize the effect of whatever you have on hand. And I recognize that this constitutes a rather significant logic leap. I have obviously sacrificed detail for brevity.

-- Nighteyes


Well said and I agree about the .22:thumbup:

[kyratshooter]

Apparently I have been in the field too long and this is what happens in the absense of a voice of reason.

Perpetuation of the "myth of the .22" and it is now morphing into the all around pellet rifle.

This place is starting to look more and more like "Survival UK"!

They too are convinced that size does not matter!

You guys are spending too much time in front of the computer, not enough at ther range and none at all actually trying to do what you are proposing.

It's all talk. No one here has hit the woods and survived with an air gun for two weeks.

It is the same for the .22lr in the lower 48. There is a big difference between shooting two squirrels on a Saturday afternoon and feeding a family of hungry kids with nothing but a .22. You simply can not spend a whole day, and expend 5,000 calories trying to get "perfect shot placement" on 1,000 calories.

[welderguy]

Apparently I have been in the field too long and this is what happens in the absense of a voice of reason.

Perpetuation of the "myth of the .22" and it is now morphing into the all around pellet rifle.

This place is starting to look more and more like "Survival UK"!

They too are convinced that size does not matter!

You guys are spending too much time in front of the computer, not enough at ther range and none at all actually trying to do what you are proposing.

It's all talk. No one here has hit the woods and survived with an air gun for two weeks.

It is the same for the .22lr in the lower 48. There is a big difference between shooting two squirrels on a Saturday afternoon and feeding a family of hungry kids with nothing but a .22. You simply can not spend a whole day, and expend 5,000 calories trying to get "perfect shot placement" on 1,000 calories.

So Kyrat what are ya really trying to say. How was the Jamboree ?

[kyratshooter]

So Kyrat what are ya really trying to say. How was the Jamboree ?

I'm saying don't promote something till you've tried it, sport hunting ain't survival, don't expect anything to work like you expected and definately do not believe anything you read on the computer, espically the weather reports!

Did you guys know it gets cold as beejeebers in central Florida in Janurary?

The camp was great. I have pictures and will post tomorrow.

[welderguy]

No i got what ya ment I was being a smart a** LOL... Looking forward to the pics. How would of thought florida gets cold.

[Mischief]

I'm saying don't promote something till you've tried it, sport hunting ain't survival, don't expect anything to work like you expected and definately do not believe anything you read on the computer, espically the weather reports!

Did you guys know it gets cold as beejeebers in central Florida in Janurary?

The camp was great. I have pictures and will post toytimmorrow.

:ohno: you were cold in Florida in January,come back in February when it does get cold in Florida,70's & 80's is nice January day time temp's. Did you forget to bring a wool blanket for the cool evening temp's ?

[randyt]

Okay, if a pellet gun won't work how about a slingshot LOL.

[Wildthang]

Apparently I have been in the field too long and this is what happens in the absense of a voice of reason.

Perpetuation of the "myth of the .22" and it is now morphing into the all around pellet rifle.

This place is starting to look more and more like "Survival UK"!

They too are convinced that size does not matter!

You guys are spending too much time in front of the computer, not enough at ther range and none at all actually trying to do what you are proposing.

It's all talk. No one here has hit the woods and survived with an air gun for two weeks.

It is the same for the .22lr in the lower 48. There is a big difference between shooting two squirrels on a Saturday afternoon and feeding a family of hungry kids with nothing but a .22. You simply can not spend a whole day, and expend 5,000 calories trying to get "perfect shot placement" on 1,000 calories.

Okay, the next time I go squirrel hunting I'm takin my 7MM, those little suckers are in trouble now!

[Mouser]

Yeah, I agree... but the percentage of folks who live in the cities and will probably die in the cities due to riots, fights over resources, disease, and starvation would certainly cut down on those who would be using the 'natural' resources. Same thing with most folks who live in towns... or just the vast majority of people who don't know zilch about nature or primitive living... The ones that survive the first couple months will have formed 'communities' to try to suit their needs as a group, improvise and probably come to some sort of sustainability if they aren't constantly being raided by other groups.
When you say living off the land isn't sustainable... it isn't if EVERYONE is doing it... but even though a lot of folks on this forum could live off the land, 99 percent of everyone else can't. That's a lot less people to compete with already. The problem with a farm is that there's a huge chance that it is a major target of 'food raids' cause most people know what a farm is.... So even though a farm makes the most sense for self sustainability in a stable society... unless you have an army to guard it its probably not the best place to be when the hungry, angry mob hits.

I think the point is to out last the 99%.

I guess the question depends on your area.

A pellet gun would suit me fine for where I live, but I'll take my .22LR in a bug out situation.

I don't anticipate standing my ground up in these here mountains/woods.

Nor do I have the need to penetrate body armour....if you made it that far with that on, well then I guess I won the lottery.

[Mozartghost1791]

I haven't survived with an airgun for two weeks, and I agree that I'd probably get more squirrels with my break action .410... but when you're out in the woods, once you got the basics (shelter water fire) covered, you got a darn large amount of time to hunt. Also, when the animals get used to you, and you get 'attuned' to nature, it gets that much easier... and in a survival situation, we can just forget about it being illegal to set 20 deadfalls that get whatever they get, or shooting migratory non-game birds, or setting up a fish trap in a stream... There are a lot more options available than what's considered 'legal' hunting.

[1stimestar]

I don't have anything against people wanting to have guns. It's just that some of these survival sites seem to focus almost exclusively on 'end of the world' scenarios and people talking about guns. The main point I mean to make is that though they make it easier, guns aren't necessary to survival, and they shouldn't be the exclusive focus of survivalists. There are also alternatives to guns and just because they aren't quite as good, people are completely ignoring them here. In a real survival situation the chances are that you won't have a gun... maybe not even a knife. If it's more of a hunting-camping scenario you would have a gun, but your ammo won't last forever. In the end of the world scenario... I would like it if they devoted a different section of the site to that rather than make the whole site and the very term 'survival' into some sort of violent soap opera. Maybe I'm just in the wrong place and should look for a site about primitive wilderness living rather than keeping a gun on you at all times. I own guns but the only time I carry them is when I'm hunting. If I got stranded in a plane crash or lost camping, chances are I ain't armed to the teeth. If the world ends... well let's just say that's another topic altogether.

Some people live in much different situations then you do. Situations where guns DO mean survival. Places where people carry guns just to go for a walk. And NEED to. Small aircraft pilots here do carry.

[crashdive123]

There's one fella on here that won't walk to his outhouse without a firearm.

[Wildthang]

When you need a gun and don't have it with you, you then will realize how important a gun could have been. The people that think guns are not important are the ones that die in home invasions, car jackings, and armed robbery.
I dont's worry about having a gun, I just always have one and it is natural for me to be prepared, and I actually feel naked without one. The simple task of driving through Chicago, Detroit, and several other large cities merits having a gun for self defense in my opinin. I am not paranoid, just prepared!

[Mozartghost1791]

I guess you guy's situations are a bit different than mine... I hate big cities and if I had to live in one I'd want a concealed handgun too. In Alaska there are bears that you have to worry about, that are big enough to eat you. Here in backwoods Appalachia though, the bears aren't as big and they hardly come into contact with humans at all. I live in a little community where everyone is neighbors and everyone has guns, they just don't use them for anything but 'legal recreational' hunting. I like to practice other methods of survival than guns cause I live in a place where that's a practical idea... I didn't mean to offend or criticize those who live in more dangerous locales.

[kyratshooter]

I haven't survived with an airgun for two weeks, and I agree that I'd probably get more squirrels with my break action .410... but when you're out in the woods, once you got the basics (shelter water fire) covered, you got a darn large amount of time to hunt. Also, when the animals get used to you, and you get 'attuned' to nature, it gets that much easier... and in a survival situation, we can just forget about it being illegal to set 20 deadfalls that get whatever they get, or shooting migratory non-game birds, or setting up a fish trap in a stream... There are a lot more options available than what's considered 'legal' hunting.

So we get the "talk" about nonexistant need for firearms, in a thread about pellet rifles, posted in the section for general survival rather than the guns and ammo secton?

Get out from behind the computer and put some boots on the ground.

If you really want to talk to some "Like minded" people there is a forum for you, which I already mentioned, called Survival UK. They seem to share your belief system and run about helpless and hopeless intending to live on snared rats and fight off hordes of zombies with crossbows. One with nature and all that. Most of them live in flats in one of their major cities and have never spent more than a weekend camped in a commercial campground. However, they, like you, know all about survival, they read it on the internet!

Lots of free time? Have you ever collected enough firewood to last for a 14 hour night at below freezing?

Do you know how long it takes to set "20 deadfalls" and how much area you have to cover daily to check the 20 empty traps?

Have you ever "become one with nature" to the tune of collecting every bite you eat from the sorrounding area?

Yes, there are many methods of food gathering, their efficiencey dependent on the location and climate of your region, but we do not know your region, do we? That is because while belittling the folk here that have foresight to carry a firearm, or habe an ionterest in discussing firearms, you live in a "secret lab in a secret location" which I now suspect to be your Mom's basement in suburbia.

You're not really old enough to buy a firearm yet, are you?

[welderguy]

Were im from Texas, I share the woods with critters that if shot with an air rifle would fall over laughing. I have seen the video of the guy shooting a wild pig with an air rifle not impressed I want to see him hunt one on the move, How about a bob cat or a Mt lion. No thank you my airguns are reserved for plinking cans with my son in the back yard, and helping to teach wayward critters that my trash can is not a 5 star restaurant and my truck tires there personal outhouse.

[Mozartghost1791]

So we get the "talk" about nonexistant need for firearms, in a thread about pellet rifles, posted in the section for general survival rather than the guns and ammo secton?

Get out from behind the computer and put some boots on the ground.

If you really want to talk to some "Like minded" people there is a forum for you, which I already mentioned, called Survival UK. They seem to share your belief system and run about helpless and hopeless intending to live on snared rats and fight off hordes of zombies with crossbows. One with nature and all that. Most of them live in flats in one of their major cities and have never spent more than a weekend camped in a commercial campground. However, they, like you, know all about survival, they read it on the internet!

Lots of free time? Have you ever collected enough firewood to last for a 14 hour night at below freezing?

Do you know how long it takes to set "20 deadfalls" and how much area you have to cover daily to check the 20 empty traps?

Have you ever "become one with nature" to the tune of collecting every bite you eat from the sorrounding area?

Yes, there are many methods of food gathering, their efficiencey dependent on the location and climate of your region, but we do not know your region, do we? That is because while belittling the folk here that have foresight to carry a firearm, or habe an ionterest in discussing firearms, you live in a "secret lab in a secret location" which I now suspect to be your Mom's basement in suburbia.

You're not really old enough to buy a firearm yet, are you?

For one, if you'd been paying attention, I have said that I have my own guns and hunt with them often enough. I have killed more with an airgun than I have with my shotgun but I appreciate the shotgun's superior 'instant killing without aiming' power.
For two, I was trying to apologize to those who I had criticized for being conjoined twins with their firearms and would die without them, and you only started criticizing me after I apologized.
For three, I caught 21 bass in one afternoon with my rod and reel in my pond (not stocked) one day, and can usually get 6 or 7 in an afternoon easy. That's without bothering to cut the string into separate lines and fish multiple baits.
Something you might like to know is that I actually tried killing a possum with a (breath powered) blowgun, and though my 4-inch dart sunk all the way into its chest and I fired more than once with similar accuracy, I had to use my shotgun to finish it off because the blowgun was not sufficient. I know the shotgun is the better hunting weapon, I'd just like to know other ways to hunt/procure food, that's all.
Fourth, who said anything about mowing down zombies in a serious survival discussion. I don't think we need to concern ourselves with them until I make some in my mad lab... which brings me to
Fifth, I live in the country, not a city, and I have hunted, fished, foraged, and cooked all of the resulting food with primitive methods. I have even made a campfire with a bow drill, which I doubt at least some of you haven't done.
Setting 20 deadfalls.... hmm... in my woods there are plenty of rocks... I've even built a small wall with nice flat ones.... It took me about 10 minutes to assemble one deadfall so the raw figure for 20 is about 3 and a half hours. Count in another hour for collecting the parts and finding nice spots and that's still only half a day's work. Do 2 or 3 a day until you get up to 20 and you only spend about 45 min a day on it. As far as 'empty traps' goes, I have actually had some that weren't empty ...
As for my region I live about 10 minutes drive from Elkin NC, and natural resources are plentiful and we only have about 10 '14 hour nights below freezing' per year.
My age is Nunya.

[Wildthang]

I guess you guy's situations are a bit different than mine... I hate big cities and if I had to live in one I'd want a concealed handgun too. In Alaska there are bears that you have to worry about, that are big enough to eat you. Here in backwoods Appalachia though, the bears aren't as big and they hardly come into contact with humans at all. I live in a little community where everyone is neighbors and everyone has guns, they just don't use them for anything but 'legal recreational' hunting. I like to practice other methods of survival than guns cause I live in a place where that's a practical idea... I didn't mean to offend or criticize those who live in more dangerous locales.

Well where you are, maybe the crime is low, and there is never a threat of any kind, but that is rare anymore. I have run into some people out in the West virginia mountains that I would not want to be around without a gun, and I am sure there are those people all through the Appalachian range.
But hey dude, if you wish to frolick around without a gun, I respect your wishes, no problem!

[Mozartghost1791]

I keep my shotgun ready to use in my closet. Unless I'm hunting I don't need it with me the rest of the time. If someone breaks into the house I'm on the second floor so I'd have time to grab it. The chances of someone sticking me up on the street in a small town are next to none... It seems that this forum is more about gun rights (which I incidentally support) than wilderness survival, which was the actual purpose I joined, as it is called Wilderness Survival Forum... Too bad Tom Brown or Thomas J. Elpel don't have a survival forum where you can talk about surviving without a high power rifle and 50 lbs of supplies... I wouldn't have that stuff if I got in a bus/plane crash in the lower 48, and I wouldn't have that stuff if I got lost on a college hiking trip (you can't even have a gun in college), and even though I might have that stuff if the world ended, other people would have even better stuff and we would be talking modern warfare 3 rather than wilderness survival...

[GreatUsername]

We do have sections that are about primitive survival. All of this gun-buzz right now is unusual, it's kind of our pro-gun fervor getting stirred up by the potential bans the government is considering. If you want to talk primitive, I'd suggest a post to one of those sections, with no mention of firearms or airguns.

This is a good place, don't write us off just yet ;)

[Wildthang]

+1 to that, we are all about wilderness skills and survival, and as said above, the gun ban has us all worked up, but I guarantee we will get over it!

[hunter63]

I keep my shotgun ready to use in my closet. Unless I'm hunting I don't need it with me the rest of the time. If someone breaks into the house I'm on the second floor so I'd have time to grab it. The chances of someone sticking me up on the street in a small town are next to none... It seems that this forum is more about gun rights (which I incidentally support) than wilderness survival, which was the actual purpose I joined, as it is called Wilderness Survival Forum... Too bad Tom Brown or Thomas J. Elpel don't have a survival forum where you can talk about surviving without a high power rifle and 50 lbs of supplies... I wouldn't have that stuff if I got in a bus/plane crash in the lower 48, and I wouldn't have that stuff if I got lost on a college hiking trip (you can't even have a gun in college), and even though I might have that stuff if the world ended, other people would have even better stuff and we would be talking modern warfare 3 rather than wilderness survival...

Yeah, we all have an opinion, and sometimes they don't all line up.......we get it.

[finallyME]

Tom Brown doesn't have a forum because then he couldn't charge for the info he gives out.

[Mozartghost1791]

I wonder how much a forum costs to operate these days? I guess I might remember something about tom brown not charging to teach people....
@ everyone else: sorry I stirred up this argument:gun_bandana:.... I will check out the primitive skills section.

[welderguy]

I keep my shotgun ready to use in my closet. Unless I'm hunting I don't need it with me the rest of the time. If someone breaks into the house I'm on the second floor so I'd have time to grab it. The chances of someone sticking me up on the street in a small town are next to none... It seems that this forum is more about gun rights (which I incidentally support) than wilderness survival, which was the actual purpose I joined, as it is called Wilderness Survival Forum... Too bad Tom Brown or Thomas J. Elpel don't have a survival forum where you can talk about surviving without a high power rifle and 50 lbs of supplies... I wouldn't have that stuff if I got in a bus/plane crash in the lower 48, and I wouldn't have that stuff if I got lost on a college hiking trip (you can't even have a gun in college), and even though I might have that stuff if the world ended, other people would have even better stuff and we would be talking modern warfare 3 rather than wilderness survival...

Mozart, I understand your comfort of a small town, and your feeling of safety , but consider the economy and jobless rate right now its even worst in a small town I live in a small town , and in the last 5 years Crime has grown , shooting, armed robbery, murder, home invasions. its when you get so comfortable in your surroundings and every day routine that you forget to remember why your a prepper/survivalist...etc etc. I can respect your feeling about firearms and CCW. what i suggest in the future.A good rule of thumb on this or any forum is, If its not a subject your interested in or care about dont reply or even look at it. Hang around get to know some of the ol timers there bark is worst than there bite.

[kyratshooter]

I keep my shotgun ready to use in my closet. Unless I'm hunting I don't need it with me the rest of the time. If someone breaks into the house I'm on the second floor so I'd have time to grab it. The chances of someone sticking me up on the street in a small town are next to none... It seems that this forum is more about gun rights (which I incidentally support) than wilderness survival, which was the actual purpose I joined, as it is called Wilderness Survival Forum... Too bad Tom Brown or Thomas J. Elpel don't have a survival forum where you can talk about surviving without a high power rifle and 50 lbs of supplies... I wouldn't have that stuff if I got in a bus/plane crash in the lower 48, and I wouldn't have that stuff if I got lost on a college hiking trip (you can't even have a gun in college), and even though I might have that stuff if the world ended, other people would have even better stuff and we would be talking modern warfare 3 rather than wilderness survival...

Sorry that we are not "bush hippies" up to your standard. BTW if you see Tom Brown ask him where he was between 1969 and 1976 and how he came to know so much about the Canadian wilderness in those years.? I suppose he was visited by "Grandfather" and told to go north.

Not being able to have firearms in planes is why I seldom fly. Plumb naked you would be as far as gear goes but if something happens to your plane at 30,000 feet it is a moot point anyway. Your chances of surviving a plane crash and being in survival mode in the lower 48 is nonexistant! You are either dead or someone heard the noise and called the police.

Busses?? Last buss I rode I was really glad I had my CCW with me. That was a spooky crowd! That was the trip back from hiking the AT all summer back in '01. That was my mid life crisis trip which I seized at age 51.

Lastly, we are not always talking guns. We usually do that on the section set aside for gun talk and not in the general survival section as was stated before. We have entire threads filled with stickies on every topic you have mentioned. This entire thread is in the wrong section and should have been moved days ago. If one does not want to use a firearm that is their perogitive, just quit promoting a superior attitude and tying to put a guilt trip on other people for their choices.

Now getting lost on a college hiking trip I can understand since most kids that age don't know where they are, where they are going most of the time and can't find their butt with both hands! (sorry Sparky you are an exception!) I always noticed that those college trip organizers always stressed leaving the guns at home but had plenty of tolerance for medicinal herb around the campfire. Probably not a good idea to mix the two and they made their priorities clear. Makes one ponder.

Truth is, you have to really search hard to find a wilderness in the lower 48 and you have to try even harder to get lost in it once found. 9 times out of 10 if you sit down and quit talking to yourself you can hear traffic on the nearest road.

Or you can just check your phone and see how many bars you have. If reception is poor climb that mountain peak and shout the universal cry for help...

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW????