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Kosuki
08-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Cars are not the way to go for long term(short term yes). I would say go with horses. Since I live near the Los Padres National Forest I have access to horses I could use to get out of dodge traveling through the forest north bound (what ever direction is safe). Next best bet if your pack was not too heavy would be a good bike(pedal not motor). You have to look at the fuel factor. Gas and diesel does not have a long self life, so even if you had a storage of it, it wont last 10-15 years with out treatment. Now if you have a truck like a M109 and you could make bio fuel, that would be a great way to go. M109's will run off just about anything that burns.

Look at cars/trucks for example: Emergency Situation that may last for a short time 6 months-1 year, these are a great was to go. 1 Year+ a automobile may not be best because of factors like, wear and tear, broken parts, replacing broken parts, fuel, tires( what if 2 pop, you only have 1 spare) and so much more

Bikes: Bikes will use alot of your energy if you are not in shape and use to riding bikes, also you cant move a heavy load that would could with a car/truck. What if you have multiple people and 1 bike :ohmy: (ill leave that for my 1 bike 4 person post lol).

Horses: Horses and other ride able animals have been used for thousands of years as a transportation method. As the saying goes, "If its not broke, don't fix it". Horses live for years and do not need gasoline to run them. They need food and water and medical care like us. You can fit 1-2 people on a horse for transportation. You can even use other horses to transport your heavy gear. If you need to move large items or multiple items you can even build a cart for the horse to pull. you can also breed horses to make more horses, can you breed cars?(that would be a scary thought, F150+Ram 1500= Ramf250? :blink: )

What ever you use to get out of dodge, I hope works for you, remember if you have a car and need to drive out of town and a traffic jam happens you may be stuck for while. If you have a horse in that same situation you can ride past all the cars. If you have many horses and friends/group members riding them you can get through crowds as the nypd does and also crowd control.

Also, your fuel will not last for ever with out proper preparation for fuel storage:
Fuel Storage Link 1 (http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/PreparingforStorage.html)
Fuel Storage Link 2 (http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Maintenance-Monday-Shelf-life-of-gasoline/1715-412027-322.aspx)


I say if it came down too it, for long long long term survival, horses are the way to go, or a camel :ohmy: what ever you prefer :tongue_smilie:

Whats your opinion?

Tootsiepop254
08-19-2012, 09:36 AM
Mules. Most moutain folk will agree, I think. Mules are known to be generally healthier, more sure-footed than a horse and generally require less food to maintain a healthy weight than a horse. They are also good guard dogs, and will alert you to any potential threats while you're sleeping (predators, robbers trying to sneak into your camp, ect.).

Downside -- They're SMART and will try to outthink you at every turn.

Sarge47
08-19-2012, 10:45 AM
Do you know how much feed is required to keep a horse healthy? Much of our Prairie lands with the rolling meadows are gone. Next consider how "open" you are on a horse. You make a fine target, as does the horse, which is considered a viable food source if the situation gets desperate enough. Once the wild game, domestic farm animals like chickens, hogs, geese, and cattle are gone, horses, mules & donkeys will be on the menu as well. At least in a motor vehicle you have some form of shelter as well as mobility. You can also stash 55 gallon drums of gasoline ahead of time in secret locations. Just some food for thought. :cowboy:

Tootsiepop254
08-19-2012, 06:41 PM
Do you know how much feed is required to keep a horse healthy? Just some food for thought. :cowboy:

Very true. You also have to look at the fact thatyou have to have some skill with a horse, and the knowledge to keep it healthy (some of them TRY to get sick, I swear..). On the other hand, the food source is there, since, as was pointed out, you can breed your own, and then eat them when they are no longer useful (horsemeat is very sweet, btw). Plus, if you find yourself bugging out alone, they are good to talk to.

kyratshooter
08-19-2012, 07:57 PM
Civilization has come to an end, society is depleated, technology has collapsed.

Where the he!! are you planning on going?

Why does everyone think their name is Eli and they have to get a book to Alcatraz?

If you have a horse you'd better guard it like gold and make sure it does not pull up lame on a useless trip, because that is how you are going to get your crop in next spring!

Tootsiepop254
08-19-2012, 08:10 PM
A good horse, your favorite gun and a good dog - really takes care of all your security and hunting needs.

Rick
08-20-2012, 07:57 AM
I'll be the guy on the front porch with a beer and shotgun watching you ride by. Just nod if you're friendly.

Wildthang
08-20-2012, 12:36 PM
Bugging out is only a last ditch resort for me and I am going to stand my ground till there is no other options left. Since I already live in a rural setting, I dont worry about crowded highways, and escaping big cities.
If I ever do have to bug out, I have a Toyota Tundra 4X4 that should be as good as anything to get to the wilderness! Then I will unload my Arctic Cat 4X4 ATV, and trailer full of supplies, and find my spot in the wilderness. I guess if that doesn't work I will just die:scared:

kyratshooter
08-20-2012, 12:50 PM
WT, you live in OHIO! You have 192 people per sq mile!

What empty wilderness do you have in driving distance that no one else is going too?

tipacanoe
08-20-2012, 05:33 PM
Not positive, but I don't think we have as many cars in this state as shown in the picture. If the company I work for ever thinks I'm going to travel there, they are crazy.

Rick
08-20-2012, 06:06 PM
Like I said in the other thread, if I have to bug out I'm takin' over the DQ...by force if necessary. I doubt the manager is too well armed. Not many instances of Blizzard theft. And there's usually cute girls working there so that's a plus, too.......

Sarge47
08-20-2012, 06:46 PM
Not positive, but I don't think we have as many cars in this state as shown in the picture. If the company I work for ever thinks I'm going to travel there, they are crazy.

Actually, I think that's L.A.! Anyway, watch the Survivorman episode where Les has the two horses and all the time he has to spend with them, not to mention giving up camping areas that would be great for him, but not the horses. I'm thinking that this is something that sounds good in theory, but loses in practice. You'd have to be more than a "weekend rider," that's for sure. Even if you knew where there are horses you're going to have to beat everybody else to them, and some will want them for food! :w00t:

Wildthang
08-21-2012, 01:06 PM
WT, you live in OHIO! You have 192 people per sq mile!

What empty wilderness do you have in driving distance that no one else is going too?

Exreme southern Ohio very close to West Virginia. I have many hillbilly friends down there with lots of land!

Wildthang
08-21-2012, 01:10 PM
I would think a Burro would be better than a horse. They are more sure footed, they dont eat near as much as a horse, and they are tough little critters!

kyratshooter
08-21-2012, 03:53 PM
According to my research into such matters from the 18th/19th century, which makes me an academic and not a hands on expert, horses can not be worked or ridden nonstop for days on end. One is required to stop for 1 day rest and graze after 4 days of travel.

The average horse is also limited to 200 pounds load capacity during long excersions. That means the average adult male is going to need to trim down a few before making long distance horseback travel an option. It also limits pack size, even on horseback, and boros can carry even less.

They also had a problem with working the animal too hard on its first day back in action. Many animals were worked all week and only pulled the wagon to church on Sunday, then allowed to rest. About noon on Monday animals were dropping dead all over the country from heart failure.

This knowledge comes from studying records of the traders and longhunters of the eastern U.S., their trip journals, inventories and letters and is not my actual experience of loading up and leading a packhorse cross-country. We are used to getting in a vehicle and running it day after day with no let up and draft animals can not do that.

All in all I expect that only the Amash will survive with any satisfaction due to still having access to much of this knowledge we have to scratch, dig up and speculate over. Some of the "old order" would laugh at our ignorance on simple matters of their normal life.

SARKY
08-22-2012, 06:47 PM
Kosuki, I don't know if it is your writing style or if you are very young. But I just feel like you are talking down to me when I read your posts. They also seem to be overly simplistic. There are numerous pack animals available to you, especially here in the bay area. The easiest to train and care for would probably a Rottwieler. A good Rottie and a dog cart could easily haul 150 lbs of supplies. You also have goats, llamas, and alpaca to name a few others. You need to check your history, Bikes were used to haul TONS of supplies down the Ho Chi Min trail. Don't sell bikes short. You talk about the maintenance on cars and trucks, Horses are also maintenance intensive. Do you know how to groom a horse or trim it's hooves? Do you know how much feed and water a horse needs? What if the horse takes ill or sprains something, what will you do then? Yes you are pretty much screwed long term with a gas engine but diesel has a 10-12 year shelf life without treatment and if you have a diesel vehicle, you can use kerosine or jet plane fuel to run it . There are also many plnas from which bio-diesel can be made. The easiest is from the Chinese Tallow tree (also known as the popcorn tree) The fruits need only be squeezed and fliered and you have a bio-diesel fuel.
One last thing, how about responding to your PMs.

7MAGMIKE
10-22-2012, 11:33 PM
My first post so go easy. I do not plan on animals, I do have family with many horses but I personally have no experience with them, some of my family treats them as soft, wimpy, and needing constant attention. Well so be it, as I said I have no experience so I will stick to my diesel powered beast a 2003 Ford 250 4X4 with a 7.3 Powerstroke. It will carry a lot and is quite efficient at it, also quite heavy at 7500 pounds. My problem is getting out of a city as large as Atlanta, I live on the west side about 20 mi from the city. It depends how I need my vehicle it is my hunting truck and does pretty well off road but as many will attest has its limits. As a professional mechanic I can do pretty well with its upkeep and breakdowns. Fuel well I have been experimenting successfully with a blend of waste motor oil fuels which has been saving a lot in fuel cost now I need to accumulate a larger supply for storage.

1stimestar
10-23-2012, 02:30 AM
8 freight dogs can carry loads of 2000 pounds.

8458

Cast-Iron
10-23-2012, 10:19 AM
I could see the advantages of a mule or two if I were trying to move great distances through mountains or rough terrain, but any pack animal requires food, water, and some degree of care. I'm not that familiar with their proper care so I'll rule that method out.

My one-ton 4x4 would get me some several hundred miles without refueling, but there are other issues like tires and any number of parts which, if damaged or broken, could render it useless and leave me stranded along the way. Maybe I should tow a second truck for parts?

Bikes too are mechanical and things wear out, but I do like their simplicity and stealth. If I can only find a downhill route that should make for an easy ride to my BOL.

None of these offer a viable means of crossing large bodies of water so I better pack a raft of some sort just in case.

I could just get me a hot-air balloon and be gone with the wind. Nope, better make that an ultralight so I have greater control of where I'm headed. Wait! That won't work cause I can't take much with me.

Think I'll just plan on staying closer to home where I know the people, lay of the land, and don't have the burdens of transcontinental logistics. Work with what you have and what you know. When the inevitable snafu comes along use your available resources and go through, over, under, or around the obstacles to stay the course or chart a different course if that makes the best use of your time and resources.

Rick
10-23-2012, 02:37 PM
or just have Scotty beam you up. Just sayin'.....