Looking to learn "MORE" about Caching.......Ideas.....?

[Sourdough]

I have had a hard time finding good/useful information about caching. I have for about three years been learning via my mistakes (several) and I am open to any information you come across about caching. This article is consistent with my "Boots in the Field" experiences with caching.

http://www.strategic-living.net/index.php/art-of-caching-and-retreat/

[cowgirlup]

Good info. I was scouting out some potential places today. It would be nearly impossible to dig a deep hole here So I'm trying to be creative.

[Sourdough]

Good info. I was scouting out some potential places today. It would be nearly impossible to dig a deep hole here So I'm trying to be creative.


I have moved away from burying 120 MM ammo cans and 55 Gallon drums, and now position them in very thick cover. Secure with 1/2" Snap'ties, then I spray paint them to match the environment. Then I place moth-balls around the cache.

[NightShade]

Some of this article is kinda silly, but overall I agree with the main theme.

[Sourdough]

Some of this article is kinda silly, but overall I agree with the main theme.

Well, Just like these Forums, I extract what I can use, and 86 the rest.

[NightShade]

Good point Sourdough.. On the article- I couldn't agree more with the importance of having supplies at different locations, the importance of communications, and the ideas on strategic withdrawal/retreat. It goes along with my "fly beneath the radar" plan.
I think that a whole lot of people think tons of ammo/guns and a well fortified position will keep them safe indefinetly. I also believe this to be a severly flawed theory.

[Sourdough]

Good point Sourdough.. On the article- I couldn't agree more with the importance of having supplies at different locations, the importance of communications, and the ideas on strategic withdrawal/retreat. It goes along with my "fly beneath the radar" plan.
I think that a whole lot of people think tons of ammo/guns and a well fortified position will keep them safe indefinetly. I also believe this to be a severly flawed theory.

I figure that I have zero chance of winning a "Fair" gun fight. Which is my reasoning for drop'back positions, and then retake/reclaim my cabin in extreme low light conditions.

[cowgirlup]

I have moved away from burying 120 MM ammo cans and 55 Gallon drums, and now position them in very thick cover. Secure with 1/2" Snap'ties, then I spray paint them to match the environment. Then I place moth-balls around the cache.

That's a good idea. I'm open to any suggestions on a food stash that can withstand extreme temperature swings and not be totally ruined.

[BENESSE]

I figure that I have zero chance of winning a "Fair" gun fight. Which is my reasoning for drop'back positions, and then retake/reclaim my cabin in extreme low light conditions.

SD, what would be a scenerio (likelyhood) in which you envision this taking place?

[Sourdough]

That's a good idea. I'm open to any suggestions on a food stash that can withstand extreme temperature swings and not be totally ruined.

See if you can find some 120 MM ammo cans. they are about 33" tall, 5" wide by 12" with a tight rubber seal. I am getting 33 two serving Mountain House meals, + a new bowsaw, candles, gloves, firestarting stuff, etc. into each can. I am paying $20.00 each for 120 MM cans.

[Sourdough]

SD, what would be a scenerio (likelyhood) in which you envision this taking place?

Anything that would drive family groups from Anchorage, AK. (89 miles away). I think at first outsiders would ask nicely for fuel, borrow a chainsaw/axe, borrow a lantern, a tarp or tent. But at some point they will become more forceful/demanding about their starving children, or freezing children. At some point they will want to know why they can't move into one of my buildings. I don't realistically expect the "Classic" gangs to leave Los Anchorage to invade here.

[Sourdough]

Todays project is a small ammo can with a S&W M-60 3" and 100 rounds of FMJ. I should have used a slightly larger ammo can so that the two holsters would have fit into the same can (well it is a learning process). I was able to vacume seal the ammo in a salsa jar buy heating only the jar and lid.

The M-60 is wrapped in an old cotton cloth and inside 5 zip-lock bags with the inner bag filled with 30W motor oil. When deployed I will snap-tie in place and spray paint to match the soroundings, cover with brush and moth-balls.

[crashdive123]

Why mothballs? I know some use them to keep rodents out, but the metal box should do that. Along those lines, if the paint job is to prevent prying eyes, won't the odor of the mothballs indicate to a human that something might need further investigating.

[kyratshooter]

Waiting for "low light conditions" might be a good deal in the lower 48 but how does that work out with 6 month day and 6 month night?

You could starve to death waiting for dark!

[Sourdough]

Why mothballs? I know some use them to keep rodents out, but the metal box should do that. Along those lines, if the paint job is to prevent prying eyes, won't the odor of the mothballs indicate to a human that something might need further investigating.


The moth-balls are for bears, they hate the smell of Naptha. The hiding/paint is for my enjoyment as NO-one goes into the wilderness around here but me. They stay on the trail systems.

[crashdive123]

Gotcha. How long will the mothballs last before you need to re-apply? And I'm guessing you don't need to put them out while the bears are not active?

[Rick]

You can get powder storage tubes from Coleman's. They are 40 inches long and 7 inch diameter. They are $7.50 each. Don't know what shipping would be.

http://store.colemans.com/cart/40-in-storage-tube-p-132.html

[Sourdough]

Gotcha. How long will the mothballs last before you need to re-apply? And I'm guessing you don't need to put them out while the bears are not active?

All summer here (About 6 months).

[Sourdough]

I have decided to cache two (2) full 15 pound propane bottles, and two propane cook stoves. The sled has change the boundary of possibilities.

I am slowly realizing that the limits of caching is bounded by one ability to fully hide the idem.

[hunter63]

Early on when "The Place" was just a old camper parked in the field, we kept a 55 gal drum w/lid and seals, ring and a place to lock it up as a 'camp in a can" so to speak.

This was done to keep the mice out of the gear.....not really to hide it......Makes ya wonder what the heck those mice eat when I don't have stuff for them to destroy.

Have gotten away from that, but I wondering if that would be an option, again....with all this talk of caching, particularly the last post on propane and stoves....kinda brought it back up.

The orginal drum is long gone after a full life of various uses, and was getting a little weather torn....so a replacement, or even one of the sealing military ammo cases might be in order.

The drum did work well, didn't seem to have any damage to contents as far as moisture, and was kept under a tarp...then later in the shed.
I not sure I would want to bury it, as the ground is clay and hard to dig that big of a hole....so that leaves me to figure out a way to disguise it,.

This thread has given me a reason to think about it again.

[Sourdough]

Hunter63, I don't know how large your property is. One idea is finding a thick overgrowth area away from your existing structures. Even take every old salvaged boards and building a falling in shack to hide caches. I had a lot of 120 MM ammo cans full of supplies, waiting for deployment and I hid them in an old doghouse, and covered with old straw.

My basic starting point is: I assume I return home and my cabin is looted, or people are living in it. I don't want all my eggs in one basket.

[wildWoman]

SD, what is your plan with all this stuff if you end up not using it and say you get ill or are physically unable to haul it out again at some point? I always wonder about that. We have a friend who's also caching everything from food to propane and gas to nails and now even window panes in the woods. Is all that fuel just going to seep out of rusty barrels into the ground at some point or what's the deal with the stuff ten years down the road? Or in case of an accident or sudden death?

[Sourdough]

Wildwoman, I don't have an answer for that question, sorry.

[wildWoman]

Is it something you'll be planning for, though? It would be a real shame if those of us who value the wilderness we live in so much end up being the people who pollute the ground and pristine water with gallons of fuel.

[hunter63]

Hunter63, I don't know how large your property is. One idea is finding a thick overgrowth area away from your existing structures. Even take every old salvaged boards and building a falling in shack to hide caches. I had a lot of 120 MM ammo cans full of supplies, waiting for deployment and I hid them in an old doghouse, and covered with old straw.

My basic starting point is: I assume I return home and my cabin is looted, or people are living in it. I don't want all my eggs in one basket.

I agree with the 'deploy your assets"...angle...it would be very possible that "The Place" might be occupied is something(?) were to happen, when I arrive.

There is 16 acres here, and a drum in one of the ravines would be a thought as well as a shack, falling down type.

Thought about this since seeing the episode of Flying Alaska, when they visited Emmo up above the arctic circle....he had a tent all set up in case of fire....hadn't thought about it till then.


I guess In't would worry about this stuff if something was to happen to me....although stashing old worn out gear that you don't care about isn't a real good idea, as you would need to depend on it.......Someting to think about.

DW dragged all the old dishes, pans and such to the little trailer....was getting pretty full, so i asked her about it...she says " if it get stolen I don't care...as it isn't much good anway'.....I guess I question this logic as we needed to use it.

Hummmmm

[hunter63]

Are these them?......
http://stores.alleghenywholesale.com/-strse-285/USGI-MILITARY-HUGE-Ammo/Detail.bok

[Sourdough]

Are these them?......
http://stores.alleghenywholesale.com/-strse-285/USGI-MILITARY-HUGE-Ammo/Detail.bok

Yes that is them, I pay $20.00 each. I need about five more.

[Canadian-guerilla]

most of my early caches were 5 gal pails

now i'm using most anything i can find, guerilla caches one could say

just about all of my caches lately have been metal / plastic toolboxes ( all used - bought cheap or picked from someone else's garbage )

[crashdive123]

Sourdough - how are you marking (so you can find them again) all of your cache locations? Map? GPS? Memory that could become faulty at some point?

[Sourdough]

Sourdough - how are you marking (so you can find them again) all of your cache locations? Map? GPS? Memory that could become faulty at some point?

At this point: Memory. However this project seems to have evolved rapidly, I am now moving assets to multiple wagon wheel type configurations. With a single 55 Gal. Drum as the hub and 120 MM cans as outer spokes. Originally the cabin was the "HUB".

[Rick]

For you guys that cache this stuff are you keeping a written log for someone else in case something happens to you? I wonder how many caches are out there hidden, forgotten, because the owner died and no one knew they were out there and/or where they were.

[SARKY]

When I can't bury my cache, what I do is pile rocks on it and make it look like part of an old rock wall.

[wildWoman]

I wonder how many caches are out there hidden, forgotten, because the owner died and no one knew they were out there and/or where they were.

I think also the sheer effort of hauling the stuff out again from a remote or semi-remote location would probably lead quite a few chachers to keep procrastinating until they simply can't be bothered anymore to pick it up. Plus the thought "oh, it'll come in handy one day!" - it's a common enough phenomenon around many people's yards (ours included). Not saying that that's SD's attitude.
But I really hope that all you people who cache stuff out in the bush figure out some gear retrieval plan, especially when it comes to plastic, glass, fuel and oil. All those animals and plants in your chosen bug out location deserve the respect of not being left with a toxic mess, IMHO. At the very least, include it in your will.

[hunter63]

There is one ravine that was a dump, had a kid hump 3 loads of metal out last summer.....but still a bunch left, thinking a 'camp in a can' located in that area.
I'm also thinking not keeping everything in one drum....like the wagon wheel idea, that's why I was asking about ammo cans....

It's too bad the plant I used to work at is closed down.......we had a bunch of "hazard drums, that were clean, had a hard plastic liner, w sealable top, that a normal 55 gal drum would drop into, then seal it up......They were for hazardous waste, lasttime I saw them there were about 50 stacked up ready to go.

Oh well, the whole palce is a parking lot now....but they would have been very secure.

[wareagle69]

this is something that i used to do as part of my old lifestyle in the states, there are still 7 caches set up in one perticular state that are now over 20 yrs old.
Up here i also do it, maybe for the same reason, but still as a back up, i have 10 45 gallon drums that i get for free from work, and also 5 gallon food pails from the cafe at work, i have also experimented with canvas tarps for my non food items and they are just lightly buried in out of the way spots.
As far as folks finding these items, i must admit in some cases that possibility does exsist, but also a good working knowledge of most bush folks is that they do not go far off trail or away from quads or snow machines, bury something in thick vegetation sucks as junipers and i would hazard a guess that they will never e found.

[Crabapple Plum]

You are conveniently caching picks and shovels to uncache your caches, right? Are folks at the hardware store asking if you lost another shovel?

I think it's kinda' important the have them nearby depending how deep you're going.

[Rick]

Let me get this straight...once you cache a cache you have to have tools in case you have to uncache the cache that you cached? Sounds too much like golf to me. I had the ball. Why the he## would I hit it away just to go get it?

[Crabapple Plum]

Let me get this straight...once you cache a cache you have to have tools in case you have to uncache the cache that you cached? Sounds too much like golf to me. I had the ball. Why the he## would I hit it away just to go get it?

It's hard enough to remember where you buried all your nuts. It's even harder to remember to grab a shovel from somewhere when it's time to move fast and silent to gather your nuts. I'm not a badger, I'd break a nail digging out a cache with my hands.

Perhaps one of Sourdough's Grizzlies is trained to fetch goodies out of the ground.

[hunter63]

Had a dog that thought the same way....retrevied a golf ball about a dozen times, then ran home from the park and was waiting on the front steps...ball between his paws.
Look on his face said, "If you just gonna keep hitting the stupid thing when I bring it back....good luck with that next time."

Now back on subject, yeah, I think some sort of a map and directions in a safe deposit box would be in order,or trusted friend.... along with will, and other impoortant papers....also include conbinations of safes if they are used.

When the BIL passed away, everyone was looking for the combination of his gun safe.
He had given me a copy (we were hunting buddies, and pretty close), but there was more to it than just a list of numbers......I knew where he bought it and a call to the store confirmed the order and direction that the number need to be dialed....
.
Those directions are all the same on that brand.

[kyratshooter]

When you are urban, suburban, or even rural in most of the lower 48 east of the Mississippi, those safe deposit boxes become you main cache. It is also not unusual here to have people renting storage units for keeping emergency disaster supplies in more than one location.

Our main contengency is weather related and having a tornado or flood take out more than one location is very unlikely.

I was considering a small cache in the big hollow tree behind the house but the elves claimed squatters rights.

[Rick]

I was considering a small cache in the big hollow tree behind the house but the elves claimed squatters rights.

Yeah, but look at the cookies you get.

[hunter63]

[/COLOR]

Yeah, but look at the cookies you get.

That's a myth...went by a Keblers factory in Grand rapids MI once, it was shift change....they were just regular factory workers......the guard shack was built to look like a hollow tree ,however....

[Cast-Iron]

To ease your cache extraction and likely eliminate the need for tools when recovering your supplies:

When digging your hole place the removed dirt/debris into a wheelbarrow or similar container.
Insert your cache into the hole checking for fit.
Once you're satisfied with the fit, backfill to within a few inches of the top with clean sand.
Top off with original topsoil leaving a very slight mound.
The mound should level off with a rain shower or two.
When digging it up, the sand will let you know you're in the right location and should be easier to remove.
Haul the excess dirt off far enough to help conceal the source.

[farmerjane]

When I started to think of an alternative location, I then considered "What if we were not all together when major event occured or the house had been taken and we were separated. That is when we made the plan with our family, there is a certain place we were all aware of to meet. Two 55 gallon drum were barried with camping equipment and food and necesary items for only 4 days. We talked with our kids too about the reasons for this and what they were to do. We have practices with them on several occations, bug out from where you are and meet at this place.

So far they have all done well with it. We also set up secret codes for the event that a group had to go to the alternant location without the second group. And a second drum in a different location nearby contains a bug out pack for them.

[Rick]

Whatever your plans are, practice makes perfect.

[Sourdough]

When I started to think of an alternative location, I then considered "What if we were not all together when major event occured or the house had been taken and we were separated. That is when we made the plan with our family, there is a certain place we were all aware of to meet. Two 55 gallon drum were barried with camping equipment and food and necesary items for only 4 days. We talked with our kids too about the reasons for this and what they were to do. We have practices with them on several occations, bug out from where you are and meet at this place.

So far they have all done well with it. We also set up secret codes for the event that a group had to go to the alternant location without the second group. And a second drum in a different location nearby contains a bug out pack for them.

Well planned, very well done.

[Sourdough]

I have also decided to build a "Classic" Log Cabin type cache atop of 16' poles. This will be partly for ascetics, and also for winter moose/caribou meat storage. The poles need to be wrapped with tin to stop voles, martin, ermine,wolverines, etc.
http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/quaint-log-cache-denali-national-park-2797-pictures.htm

[crashdive123]

Is that a one summer or two summer project for you?

[Sourdough]

is that a one summer or two summer project for you?

two.............

[crashdive123]

We need to find you an apprentice. You'd think that with all of the wide eyed, idealists, that are fed up with society that you'd have yourself a good sized work force already. Maybe it's not society that they are tired of, but rather just hard work.

[randyt]

here's a link to a cache thread at piterhunt, may be some useful info.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpiterhunt%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefo x-a%26hs%3DvyP%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dimvns&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&u=http://piterhunt.ru/scripts/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D24326&usg=ALkJrhiIe_L_SLXRX4h_OTA7N87PlfcOTg

[Sourdough]

Update: I got the last of the 55 Gal. drums out today, along with two 5 gal. propane tanks, one more stove, & 190 MH meals. Now the bad news is two of the older caches were attacked last week, damage only the containers, contents OK. Most likely very young bears or my wolf.

[hunter63]

Might be an on-going problem?

[Sourdough]

Might be an on-going problem?

I hope I have discovered the cause.

[hunter63]

I would suppose the 16' poles are there to prevent this from happening, gonna be kinda tough to get the stuff up there, and of course back down again.
So a Grizz can rip open a 55 gal drum?

Although it wouldn't look so good maybe, but have you cansidered a old van parked out there?

[SARKY]

The black bear in Yosemite open cars as if they were made of tissue paper. Can you find any plastic pickle barrels with screw tops? Buried they should work well and you only have to uncover the top to get to the contents.

[Sourdough]

I have switched my theory lately, and now building lots of smaller (30 Cal. ammo cans) caches containing a few dozen of every cartridge & shells, lighters, strike anywhere matches, rope, tarp/ponchos, etc.

This is an interesting short story 14 chapters, but be WARNED there are bad words even the "F" word. So read at your own risk. Remember there are 14 chapters.
http://selousscouts.blogspot.com/2009/01/cache-part-1.html

[ClayPick]

Black Bear get in my garbage. I would have one of these if they were cheaper. http://tyedeebin.com/joomla158/
I grew up around a bunch of hard drinking Scotsman, my mother would remind me that the “F Bomb “wasn’t part of the English language.:lol:

[hunter63]

I don't know how many 55 gal drums anyone has tried to bury, by hand, so far have one under my belt to a under ground drainage...er septic, ah leaking holding tank.......(illegal)..don't have it any more, don't know nothing.......Will not do it again....Honest.

But it was a real PITA.

I'm thinking the 30 cal cans or even 6-8" PVC with caps would be very wise......

[nobody]

I have some food stashes around the local forest, and when I can't dig a nice hole, I use an ice chest, and while there, paint it to match the surroundings, then I camoflage it heavily with debris. So far I've never lost anything I've stashed by being careful. I snowshoe in to some places and camp. In summer I cut my wood and stash what I need, so when I hike in, I carry very little on my back. Fun as heck, and peaceful like ya can't believe