Panic and it's two ugly stepsisters.

[Sarge47]

So here's the thing, ya went out and bought you a knife so cool that Rambo is green with envy. However, it's not the lack of a knife that causes most of the death's when people get lost, and not just in the woods. Try thinking beyond that. I have a kid brother who likes to climb mountains. Ya ever hear of somebody who got lost on a mountain? Many books have been written about it. Above treeline there's not enough oxygen or any wood at all to start a fire, so forget about it! If you read through my blogs you'll find a story about a guy who was an excellent outdoorsman, but on a squirrel hunting trip, got completely lost. When they found him he'd thrown away his rifle and fully loaded pack. He had several squirrels in his game bag that he'd shot but had not eaten anything, his fear was so great. PANIC kills more lost people than anything else. Lonliness and boredom are it's two ugly stepsisters.

In a book titled "U.S. Armed Forces Survival guide, John Boswell writes this about "Loneliness and Boredom: "These are the stepsisters of fear and panic. Unlike the latter(fear) they do not come upon one sudenly and savagely, but quietly and unexpectedly, usually after all the basic survival tasks have been performed and the basic survival needs-water, food, shelter, and clothing-have been provided for. Loneliness and boredom can lead to depression and undermine the will to survive."

So here's the question, boys and girls, what do you do to solve the problem of Panic and it's two ugly stepsisters? Anybody? :confused1:

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Sarge, I can't help...Cowboy doesn't know panic. It is all draw on what I know works and make it work quick.

[randyt]

I don't know the answer either but what I do in a rough situation is stop and think about the situation and then work upon it to improve it.

[Sarge47]

Sarge, I can't help...Cowboy doesn't know panic. It is all draw on what I know works and make it work quick.

Wow! So what works for you in combating loneliness and boredom? Remember the movie "Castaway," where Tom Hanks talks to a soccer ball like it was a person? In the "behind the scenes" material on the DVD, Tom Hanks actually had to go through a two-week survival course and that was one of things covered: loneliness and boredom. I really don't think most of the folks on here would panic unless Rick was with them walking around wearing nothing but cowboy boots and a hong, but what about the other two things? :confused1:

[intothenew]

Plan A.........Contingency........Think of my lovely family.........Contingency...........Think of my lovely family........repeat.......repeat........

[Sarge47]

I don't know the answer either but what I do in a rough situation is stop and think about the situation and then work upon it to improve it.

Good answer, Randy, but think about it, you've done all that you need to do to survive and now you're just waiting to be found! Days drag into weeks, maybe even months. You're just sitting there, looking into your campfire. How do you combat the two sisters? :confused1:

[Sarge47]

C'mon you guys, what did you include in that "all important BOB" to fight off the two sisters? :confused1:

[intothenew]

Nothing, this one is between the ears Sarge.

[JPGreco]

Pfft.... who gets lost on a mountain? All you have to do is go down.

No, in all seriousness I would agree that panic and just stupidity are the biggest killers. I'm not talking about willfully going into the wilderness to play survival. The show "I Shouldn't be Alive" showed a few incidents where people just did dumb things. I saw one lady put down a pack with warm clothes and water cause it was heavy and she was "sure" she was close to help, even though she had been lost in a canyon all day. I include egos in stupidity. Insisting you're not in trouble or forging ahead when you should stop. Not panicked, just stubborn. The result is the same.

When they talk about boredom and loneliness, does that include despair? I mean, watching Les Stroud, he often talks about the loneliness, but more often about despair of not getting out or being found that can cause you to lose your will. Especially when something like a helicopter flies over and doesn't see you. I would think that boredom would cause you to try to hike out rather than lose faith and sit and die.

To stop panic isn't easy. Its interesting how trained individuals can panic yet someone who doesn't know much does the right thing. Maybe its genetic? Though I would think the best way to avoid panic is first to be trained and confident in your skills. Then when in a situation the first thing you do is sit down and think. The moment you forget that you're in trouble. Panic is like an avalanche. If you're lost you start pressing on, then panic more as you get even more lost, then make more bad choices and you panic more. That's why just stopping is foremost.

Boredom and loneliness I can't really say. I'm usually bored and lonely to be honest.... lol It sucks being single and broke in very expensive area. Hell I'm in tonight cause I have no money to go out. I think I'd rather be bored and lonely in the wilderness. I guess just trying to keep yourself busy is the only real thing you can do.

[randyt]

I'm hoping the boredom is taken care by being busy by working on improving the situation. Loneliness, I'm not sure about, probably recollect memories of the family and think about how nice it will be to see them again. Really not sure.


carve a spoon LOL

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Wow! So what works for you in combating loneliness and boredom? Remember the movie "Castaway," where Tom Hanks talks to a soccer ball like it was a person? In the "behind the scenes" material on the DVD, Tom Hanks actually had to go through a two-week survival course and that was one of things covered: loneliness and boredom. I really don't think most of the folks on here would panic unless Rick was with them walking around wearing nothing but cowboy boots and a hong, but what about the other two things? :confused1:

Cowboy isn't Tom Hanks...I have my own balls!

[Sarge47]

Pfft.... who gets lost on a mountain? All you have to do is go down.

No, in all seriousness I would agree that panic and just stupidity are the biggest killers. I'm not talking about willfully going into the wilderness to play survival. The show "I Shouldn't be Alive" showed a few incidents where people just did dumb things. I saw one lady put down a pack with warm clothes and water cause it was heavy and she was "sure" she was close to help, even though she had been lost in a canyon all day. I include egos in stupidity. Insisting you're not in trouble or forging ahead when you should stop. Not panicked, just stubborn. The result is the same.

When they talk about boredom and loneliness, does that include despair? I mean, watching Les Stroud, he often talks about the loneliness, but more often about despair of not getting out or being found that can cause you to lose your will. Especially when something like a helicopter flies over and doesn't see you. I would think that boredom would cause you to try to hike out rather than lose faith and sit and die.

To stop panic isn't easy. Its interesting how trained individuals can panic yet someone who doesn't know much does the right thing. Maybe its genetic? Though I would think the best way to avoid panic is first to be trained and confident in your skills. Then when in a situation the first thing you do is sit down and think. The moment you forget that you're in trouble. Panic is like an avalanche. If you're lost you start pressing on, then panic more as you get even more lost, then make more bad choices and you panic more. That's why just stopping is foremost.

Boredom and loneliness I can't really say. I'm usually bored and lonely to be honest.... lol It sucks being single and broke in very expensive area. Hell I'm in tonight cause I have no money to go out. I think I'd rather be bored and lonely in the wilderness. I guess just trying to keep yourself busy is the only real thing you can do.

Great post JP! Read your last sentence! The reason a lot of us are here on this forum is because we're bored! Keeping your mind occupied IS the answer! Throw a book into that pack, or a journal and writing material! Something to help keep your mind active! It seems funny to me how most of the stuff on this site is all about knives, food, water, shelter, but hardly anything on this subject! It's important to prepare for, and to teach to others you might come across. It also seems strange to me that most on here don't think about the fact that they might be injured, but will be 100% okay when the situation hits. Maybe, maybe not! Rep coming your way dude! :thumbup:

[Sarge47]

Cowboy isn't Tom Hanks...I have my own balls!

Just wondering why you keep referring to yourself in the 3rd person. Just curious. I think you're right about not needing a ball to talk to...you got yourself, right? :shifty:

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Just wondering why you keep referring to yourself in the 3rd person. Just curious. I think you're right about not needing a ball to talk to...you got yourself, right? :shifty:

I must be unique, I haven't watched TV in 3 yrs. I just do what Cowboy wants to do. So far as me referring to myself in 3rd person. Well There is not anyone I know like myself.

[JPGreco]

Thanks Sarge. Books would be a great idea for a BOB, especially if you have kids. Maybe crayons and coloring books or other age appropriate things. A travel chess set? If you lose pieces over time you can carve them. I would say take any hobbies you can with you. If you draw or write, bring paper and pencils/pens.
I would think we could take notes from "The Shawshank Redemption". Do whatever you can to keep your mind busy. Whether that be tending to camp, or doing something you have time for. Just don't let that boredom or loneliness keep you from your tasks.

I mean, I've been in a couple of situations where if I panicked someone died (both times with a case of hypothermia). My training from scouts kept me calm in those situations, though my adrenaline was through the roof.
Boredom/Loneliness, I guess we should take after Les and learn the harmonica.

The reality is I should start something like a garden to occupy more of my time.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I guess survival is not something that scares me. I'd be on vacation. I would be in my element.

[Sarge47]

I guess survival is not something that scares me. I'd be on vacation. I would be in my element.

Glad to hear it, my brother's got an Element, he loves it! :shifty:

[Sarge47]

Thanks Sarge. Books would be a great idea for a BOB, especially if you have kids. Maybe crayons and coloring books or other age appropriate things. A travel chess set? If you lose pieces over time you can carve them. I would say take any hobbies you can with you. If you draw or write, bring paper and pencils/pens.
I would think we could take notes from "The Shawshank Redemption". Do whatever you can to keep your mind busy. Whether that be tending to camp, or doing something you have time for. Just don't let that boredom or loneliness keep you from your tasks.

I mean, I've been in a couple of situations where if I panicked someone died (both times with a case of hypothermia). My training from scouts kept me calm in those situations, though my adrenaline was through the roof.
Boredom/Loneliness, I guess we should take after Les and learn the harmonica.

The reality is I should start something like a garden to occupy more of my time.

The truth is that anybody is at risk for boredom and loneliness. While panic is a possibility, active minds with nothing to do can lead you down a bad path! :detective:

[1stimestar]

I've really only had one actual panic situation when I ran into a grizzly once. It only lasted for a few seconds before I was able to remind myself what I KNEW to do. So then I did that and all was well. I don't really get bored much. Loneliness? Pshaw. I've got that covered. I'm used to it. Most of the time, I prefer it. Well loneliness and being alone are two different things. I prefer to be alone most of the time. It does not make me lonely. I've only ever taken a person with me on backpacking trips three times. Twice was my husband and once was my best friend. It is a solitary rejuvenation time for me.

[intothenew]

.......You're just sitting there...........


Not me. A book would only last for a day, maybe two, assuming downtime. A game, I would be daydreaming on the environment. I cannot imagine an ecosystem where there is not something that I could learn each day, that's "the game".

[BENESSE]

I don't remember the last time I was either lonely or bored. And a few panic sensations I got, I was able to calm myself down by taking a moment to stand still and breathe. It's a special way of breathing deeply while counting inhales and exhales; it focuses the mind and distracts from whatever is causing panic. Once I feel calmer, I can think rationally. Once I think rationally I think constructively. Once I think constructively, my mind is engaged in a positive way not a self-defeating way. That's what has worked for me every time I tried it.

[Sarge47]

I don't remember the last time I was either lonely or bored. And a few panic sensations I got, I was able to calm myself down by taking a moment to stand still and breathe. It's a special way of breathing deeply while counting inhales and exhales; it focuses the mind and distracts from whatever is causing panic. Once I feel calmer, I can think rationally. Once I think rationally I think constructively. Once I think constructively, my mind is engaged in a positive way not a self-defeating way. That's what has worked for me every time I tried it.

So have you ever tried being isolated for a month? The point is that time works against us. When we're alone we become bored or despondent. You do everything that needs doing and you wait...wait...and wait some more. Just sayin'.:shifty:

[kyratshooter]

Loneliness? If you can't stand yourself who could stand you?

Boredom? Gather more firewood.

If you are bored and have time to be lonely you are not surviving, you are loafing.

I live alone, have for three years. I often go for days without human contact. I have to make myself leave the homestead. Plenty to do around here and always plenty to do in a camp.

If you are bored I have the back porch ready to paint, the garden needs weeding, I need a fence on two sides of the lot, the chicken run needs to be moved, I have a new bathtub to install and there is a 3 foot diameter log 14 feet long that needs to be blocked out and split. That is besides the regular cooking, cleaning and general caretaking. I don't have time to be bored.

[Rick]

I've never been panicked and loneliness doesn't bother me. I can always find something to keep me busy even if it's just watching birds or bats or the sun set.

[Thaddius Bickerton]

I would not wish this on anyone but since you ask I will attempt to put my personal answer into words. It is my words from my experiences and probably does not apply to others.

1. I have looked death eyeball to eyeball, been to the very edge of not coming back and walked away from that with the knowledge that I am going to be dead one day. Not a theory but a certainty, and so I have made death my friend and adviser. Every time I act I do so knowing that it could be my last moment in this life, and thus I attempt to choose to act in a manner worthy of it being my last act on this journey. I have no fear of what happens after I die, been there done that, still don't know all the answers, but since I cannot avoid death, there is no point in letting it impact me beyond the knowledge that that is my ultimate destination on this journey.

2. It flows from understanding my relationship to death that I have the natural ability to make choices as long as I am alive. I can either let them just happen in reaction or from plans but whether I make them consciously or just react, I am making choice, even choosing to not choose or act is a choice. The power to choose it the basic nature of being a human. No matter where one finds oneself one controls ones choices or abdicate it to random happenstance. There is really nothing else that can be done regarding choice. The power is in understanding that one does have the ability and the right as a living being to choose as best as one is capable of to produce one's desired outcomes.

3. While we can take charge of our choices, it is often that allowing common choices to evolve into habits can streamline the more basic aspects of life. Simple ones such as food and drink preferences once determined can go on auto pilot and in most circumstances will suffice to free us up to focus on the more random and unexpected choices we have to make from moment to moment. Holding death as the measure of the ultimate consequence of choices, desired outcomes can be sought.

4. It is important to take the time to develop useful habits to help us produce our desired outcomes. So introspection at a time when it can be done with low stress and thinking through our chosen habits and determining which help and which do not help us live and produce our desired outcomes is of great benefit. Here again by choosing our habits and what habits to add or drop we create a system for day to day living of our life. Knowing desired outcomes lets one apply the power of choice to hopefully obtained desired consequences that flow from choices.

5. I guess I have to point out that we can develop and control our habits and choices. Consequences flow from choices but are only able to be predicted as more or less likely to flow from a sequence of choices. We can to a large extent through experience and perhaps learning predict the probably outcome of choices and keeping particular habits. We cannot control those outcomes beyond understanding that choosing to do or not to do will create circumstances that have probably outcomes.

6. Our past, both direct experience and any learning we have taken into our standard for making choices allows us to better predict our outcomes. So there is the past, from which we develop our capacity to choose effectively, using knowledge to predict outcomes for the future. Future outcomes are what we hope will happen if we choose and act well in our present. The only time we actually have it the present. To Dwell on either the past or future and not be in the present weakens our ability to produce future desired outcomes. Thus from choice we get the need to act in the present. From the past we gain knowledge to make choices and the future is where our desired outcomes reside should we be able to continue living as the future becomes the present and slips into the past.

So having thought all this through, and I know I cannot truly communicate this beyond my own self we arrive at your question of panic. I do not panic because I have spent sufficient time developing my understanding of myself and what actually moves me through life to know that panic is simply a choice and not a very useful one.

Does this mean that I cannot momentary feel scared and react in a hurry? No, I jump at loud noises and worry about stuff every day. But over time I have learned to listen to death and can pretty quickly get myself back into my calm habit from which I can make my best choice. I understand that one day that choice will be to simply die with my own dignity intact, but until that moment I also know that I can best produce my outcome from some state other than panic and so I just shift to a more resourceful state. This comes from having - unfortunately - been in sufficient panic places to know the early warning signs and to be able to switch modes early on when it is easier. There are redoubtably things that would make this more or less difficult. I have accepted that there may come a moment when it all falls apart and I just accept what happens. That to is a choice, one thought through in a calm time and that I am at peace with should it come to me.

But for me, Panic is something handled by knowledge of how it finds me and how I can manage to let it go by choosing as best I can in the moment, knowing that each choice is playing with being my last choice in this life and accepting that as part of the rules of the game.

Loneliness, again it would be a choice to accept that or boredom and react to it in some fashion. I have considerable experience from my past to draw on to know and predict probable outcomes of making those choices and accept responsibility for what may happen if I give into them. If I want to explore them then it would be done by my own choice, unless something caused me to move that way without me recognizing them. Should that happen then I am aware of possible and probably outcomes and if I don't become conscious of them and alter my choices then what happens would be my own creation.

The tools to not feel emotions like panic, loneliness boredom and the host of other unproductive things would be unique to the individual, and the circumstances they found themselves in.

The answer to most things is to know that they are choices and that choice belongs to the individual. The specific tools must be learned, and found by each of us.

In the end it is all about living life worthy of each choice being the last one before death takes me that works for me to either overcome or accept the outcomes I produce.

The goal is to live a worthy and peaceful journey producing as much as possible of my desired outcomes, and to harm no other on my journey. I of course will not nor have been anywhere near perfect, but for now that is my goal, my outcome and my method of dealing with any negative emotions.

And sometimes when things get really really grubby I find splitting a cord of kindling or whacking a tree with a ball bat or beating steel with a hammer to make things is a good choice to burn off steam.

I'm reaching for a short answer, I suppose this will have to work for the moment.

Make the best choices to make your outcomes work out. Don't sweat it since life is terminal and no one gets out alive. Have fun. Don't worry about being perfect, it is ok to revise and review as often as you want.

Well I suspect I actually let you down and did nothing to help, but at least I made a stab at it. I'll read this thread and see what I can learn from wiser heads.

Thad.

ETA: sorry I got a lot of "ly's " where they don't belong, please try to correct them in your minds, knowing my brain is drizzling and at the moment I cannot get it to edit it to better grammar. I will attempt to remember and edit this again when I am more clear headed. T.

[randyt]

loneliness, panic, and boredom are a different situation during our normal lives rather than being lost, marooned or whatever. The outcome of the latter situation is unknown. There can be many thoughts going through the old noggin. Are there rescuers coming? when?, today, tomorrow next week, next month? where's water or food? is there enough food? water?, is it going to get cold?hot?, Does the world even know I'm missing? Who's taking care of my dog? In my normal life I'll jump in the truck head into town and get a ice cream cone, six pack and talk to the gal at the counter.

[Rick]

I thought it was a pretty good post, Thad. Your sentiments are pretty much the same ones I share. Our emotions are ours. No one can make us sad or angry. We can only allow ourselves to become sad or angry. If we take responsibility for our emotions then things like panic and loneliness become selections on the dial we don't have to turn to. I don't fear death either. I'm not doing anything to hasten it along but knowing we don't get out of life alive one might as well embrace that which is going to occur no matter what we do. Nice post.

[cowgirlup]

I thought it was a pretty good post, Thad. Your sentiments are pretty much the same ones I share. Our emotions are ours. No one can make us sad or angry. We can only allow ourselves to become sad or angry. If we take responsibility for our emotions then things like panic and loneliness become selections on the dial we don't have to turn to. I don't fear death either. I'm not doing anything to hasten it along but knowing we don't get out of life alive one might as well embrace that which is going to occur no matter what we do. Nice post.

My thoughts exactly. If you allow something like that to get to you then you are giving away your power.

[Sarge47]

Some really interesting posts here. The thing is that a lot of you are thinking the "best case" scenario when, in reality, survival situations oft-times take an unexpected turn, that's why they become "survival situations." If you are truly in your "element," with no injuries, and have some gear, then you're not "surviving," but "thriving." However, if you've slipped on a hillside, for example, and suffered a compound fracture of one of your legs, and you're now off the regular trail, unable to do much, well, then it becomes a whole new situation. It's like the Andes survivors that the book, "Alive," was written about. They didn't plan on winding up alone in a mountain range without food, it happened all of a sudden. My preps include items to alleviate boredom such as a book, perhaps a survival manual; and a small notepad made by "Rite-in-the-Rain" and includes the Fisher Trekker Space pen. I also throw in a fresh deck of Bikes to practice my sleight of hand; gotta keep the wildlife entertained ya know. :punk:

[cowgirlup]

Some really interesting posts here. The thing is that a lot of you are thinking the "best case" scenario when, in reality, survival situations oft-times take an unexpected turn, that's why they become "survival situations." :

When I read the thread my first thought was that I almost never feel been bored or lonely. On further thought I realized I have never been thrown into a long term situation like that. Anytime I've been out in the woods long term it was by my own choice.


So It's something to be aware of for such a situation. Good points!

[gryffynklm]

I will be pondering this for a while. I guess that I fall in the common category of Iv'e been board and lonely for extended periods and assume I can handle it. But Lets face it, there is a level beyond what I have experienced. like in previous posts I assume I will be busy with the tasks of accessing and stabilizing the situation, collecting water food and building a shelter. Like Sarge says days to weeks to ????

Besides the things I need for a trip or hike, I usually have a journal and pen and pencil, some times cards, and dice. I usually have some project in the works, many of my projects wether they get done or not, usually go through a zen and the art of motorcycle repair process. I go through the steps of building something in my mind multiple times before actually building it. I can do this as a distraction from my situation or to analyze my situation and draw from experience, reading and other memories. I usually have a blade on me all the time. Making needed things needed in my situation can be an entertainment. Identifying known plants or if I have my journal which is usually with me when I hike, I can take notes and sketch the plant.

Recently a local woman drove into a deep ravine and was there for 4 days with an injury that prevented her from climbing out by herself. Luckily She had some snacks in the car and some water. She could hear cars and trucks passing above She passed time by telling stories and singing songs out loud. On the 4th day she managed enough strength to climb from the car and up the ravine. She said the stories and songs out loud really helped.

Just some initial thoughts.
I still need to think about this.

[kyratshooter]

There is more to this than "lost in the woods", and the senmerios are more likely to happen than the wilderness senerio that is now so unusual as to be a pursuit rather than a hazzard of life. Otherwise we would not have so many folks asking about usable land or "going out to practice surviving".

We get so stuck in out "bug out to the woods" thought process we forget the more "normal" things that would isolate us.

What about isolation due to quarentene, isolation due to "shelter in place", isolation due to security and preserving supplies where one breaks contact with all danger, or the isolation due to being a refugee, or worse yet, the isolation due to confinement in some facility for hording supplies against the needs of society. (Yes in WW2 you could go to jail for hording)

Perhaps we should find a former POW to share wisdom here. I understand they built imaginary houses, wrote speeches, engraved art work on the cell floors and worked out codes for communication with people they had never lain eyes on.

Has the human mind lost all resilence in 40 years? Countless peole have gone through these experiences and come out the other side with minimal damage from being alone for extended periods.

I used to tell my kids that boredom was a choice. Espically when they tried to use boredom as an excuse for some inappropriate behavior.

[Sarge47]

Great posts, Cowgirl, karl, and Kyrat! Positive rep sent! As a survival prepper I believe in being prepared as much as possible. This means that I need to "expect the UNEXPECTED!" While it is physically impossible to store enough gear to cover every potential survival situation, "chance favors the prepared mind." So I try to prepare mine as much as possible by using those items that could cover the "bad areas.". :cool2:

[tjwilhelm]

When I was a kid (a LONG time ago), if I complained about being bored, my folks would say "Bored people are boring people!" Given their tone, I knew it was time to find something constructive to do with myself, or risk getting the Dad's belt (or Mom's pankcake turner) across my backside. As a result, I learned early on to purge boredom from my being. I doubt boredom would be a problem for me.

Loneliness? Hmm-m-m...not sure. I've always tended to be independent and fine being alone. That said, I sure do enjoy being with my wife and kids, and some really good friends. Thinking about it, I get a sense that loneliness could be managed well with with some woo-woo, stuff: meditation, communing with nature, prayer, etc. Either that, or make best friends with a member of the local animal community...squirrels can be fun!

[Spartan300]

This is an excellent point. Boredom and Depression will do you in during every day life, not to mention in a survival situation! If you don't believe it, observe folks that have "retired" and have not taken up a hobby or pass time. I know a gentleman that retired about 3 years ago. Heck, he don't know what to do with himself! He has aged beyond belief in the last 3 years. He just rides around, sitting around at restaurant in the morning, pacing the floors, and looking rather hopeless. I told him the other day how he should start a flower garden, spend time in the garden, heck....collect stamps!

It really don't matter what you do....just do something. In a survival situation this kind of mindset is compounded to an even larger degree. You are already experiencing a certain amount of stress and Depression due to the situation you are in. Find something, anything, to occupy your mind so you can SURVIVE. During the Depression folks found ways of entertaining themselves. Whether it was a card game, marbles, or sewing clothes out of old curtains, they stayed busy. When in a bad place you have to keep your mind busy which results in a key to survival.....having hope.

[Rick]

I think I might have mentioned to my parents that I was bored once. Not more than twice for sure. I just wasn't that dumb. Dad was an old WWII guy and he could find you busy work in a heart beat. Anyone here ever white wash trees or dig dandelions? It must have been twice 'cause I remember him assigning both jobs.

[BENESSE]

I too, learned early on to "look busy" or else my mom would find some god-forsaken chore for me to do.
And "looking busy" turned into actually being busy to the point that even mom used to say...(unbelievable, coming from her)...you gotta slow down, and take some time to do nothing. The work will still be there.
Yeah, right, now you tell me, when the habit is so ingrained that I don't know any other way to be. This was our ongoing discussion until she died last year.

[cowgirlup]

This is an excellent point. Boredom and Depression will do you in during every day life, not to mention in a survival situation! If you don't believe it, observe folks that have "retired" and have not taken up a hobby or pass time. I know a gentleman that retired about 3 years ago. Heck, he don't know what to do with himself! He has aged beyond belief in the last 3 years. He just rides around, sitting around at restaurant in the morning, pacing the floors, and looking rather hopeless. I told him the other day how he should start a flower garden, spend time in the garden, heck....collect stamps!

.

I think part of that too is that too many people have their personal identity wrapped up in their job. Their value in their own eyes is their usefulness or importance in some profession.

As far as boredom some people are more prone to it than others. I was an only child back in the day when preants didn't feel the need to have activities to chauffer their kids to. I learned to enjoy my own company. You can be alone without feeling lonely.

[hunter63]

I will be pondering this for a while. I guess that I fall in the common category of Iv'e been board and lonely for extended periods and assume I can handle it. But Lets face it, there is a level beyond what I have experienced. like in previous posts I assume I will be busy with the tasks of accessing and stabilizing the situation, collecting water food and building a shelter. Like Sarge says days to weeks to ????

Besides the things I need for a trip or hike, I usually have a journal and pen and pencil, some times cards, and dice. I usually have some project in the works, many of my projects wether they get done or not, usually go through a zen and the art of motorcycle repair process. I go through the steps of building something in my mind multiple times before actually building it. I can do this as a distraction from my situation or to analyze my situation and draw from experience, reading and other memories. I usually have a blade on me all the time. Making needed things needed in my situation can be an entertainment. Identifying known plants or if I have my journal which is usually with me when I hike, I can take notes and sketch the plant.

Recently a local woman drove into a deep ravine and was there for 4 days with an injury that prevented her from climbing out by herself. Luckily She had some snacks in the car and some water. She could hear cars and trucks passing above She passed time by telling stories and singing songs out loud. On the 4th day she managed enough strength to climb from the car and up the ravine. She said the stories and songs out loud really helped.

Just some initial thoughts.
I still need to think about this.

Karl, I was thinking the same thing....and need to think about this as well.....I quoted your post as it mirrors my thought very close.

Spending quite a bit of time in the woods, on various hunting trips, does include long periods of just remaining quite and motionless, give the mind a free range to wander, all the while all other senses are in the zone, tuned to sights, sounds, movement, weather....amazing amounts of time will pass.

I can't say I can remember a situation where I wasn't in a,... What was tha?t...I wonder what that is?.....What am I doing next? etc, ect....Head is always going...
This process seems to work even when turned around, still think some one moved the truck......Or swimming back to shore after the canoe sinking....
.
So I guess I need to "Go surviving"?....and see what happens?

Heck of a thread, I guess I'm need to think about this as well........

[mountainmark]

Good thread. A lot of thought provoking posts here. I guess my thoughts on this are that I generally carry a pocket bible and a harmonica with me to keep me from being bored, but I guess I always assumed there would be plenty of work to be done, I guess it depends on the situation. I would hope I would never end up n a situation without my beloved family, but if I did, I don't think I would have any lack of subjects for prayer. I am never alone. I was just reading a book by Richard Wormbrandt who spent 17? years in a communist prison being tortured and thrown in and out of solitary confinement. Most did not survive anything close to what he went through. But he had his Lord. Don't underestimate faith and prayer. I know this is not a "religeous" forum, but even the military survival guides admit to the undeniable evidence for faith getting people through horrendous circumstances. JM2cents

mark

[Sarge47]

Good thread. A lot of thought provoking posts here. I guess my thoughts on this are that I generally carry a pocket bible and a harmonica with me to keep me from being bored, but I guess I always assumed there would be plenty of work to be done, I guess it depends on the situation. I would hope I would never end up n a situation without my beloved family, but if I did, I don't think I would have any lack of subjects for prayer. I am never alone. I was just reading a book by Richard Wormbrandt who spent 17? years in a communist prison being tortured and thrown in and out of solitary confinement. Most did not survive anything close to what he went through. But he had his Lord. Don't underestimate faith and prayer. I know this is not a "religeous" forum, but even the military survival guides admit to the undeniable evidence for faith getting people through horrendous circumstances. JM2cents

mark

Both items are great! Les uses a harmonica as well and I should throw mine into the BOB, thanks for the reminder. I also have a small Bible that can be used for the book in my pack. Positive Rep coming your way! :cool2:

[Irish_King_Donut]

I almost always carry a small sketch pad and some pencils and stuff. I can stay occupied for days drawing and sketching. If I got lonely enough I could just start talking to myself...

[hunter63]

Note, most people don't "play a harmonica".....They play "with", a harmonica.......No matter the results are the same.

[Winter]

Making rope burns hrs of time and doesn't expend alot of energy so that's a good way to cover the boredom issue.

Loneliness, hmmm, not sure how one would mitigate that..

[1stimestar]

Bleh, too much of Debbie Downer huh.

[Winter]

The one time I was "lost" in the woods, I panicked. It was 1990 and I came out of an alcohol blackout stumbling through the woods.

I had no idea where I was. None whatsoever. Being still wasted and cross country in SE Alaska with the sun coming up(@4am) in the early fall is a really bad time to magically be transported into the bush.

I started walking downhill and thinking about where I was. Then, maybe 2 minuites later, I was running downhill and in panic. I lost my favorite hat and didn't even consider turning around to get it.

Suddenly, SMACK, I crash right into the back wall of Schoenbar Middle school, breaking my nose. I staggered the next 4 blocks to my apartment and passed out.

Good times.

My advice to anyone is, as soon as you realize you don't know which way is which; STOP, sit down, look around, and listen for 10 minutes. Then if you are able, make a cup of coffee or eat something. Spend time assessing your situation. Inventory your gear.

An hr later you have alleviated most of what would cause you to panic and you have started forming a plan. I would also suggest that if you are lost and have the gear to camp on the spot, do it. That is the point where you are closest to where you became lost and, therefore, closer to being found or finding your way out.

[hunter63]

I leastt I was at the corner of telephone and telephone when I woke up, must have been dirty ice cubes....hard to give directions that way though......

[Winter]

There's more trees when you are seeing double.

I just looked at the map of where I was lost. It's about a 2000'by2000' area. Hahaha.

[Rick]

My advice to anyone is, as soon as you realize you don't know which way is which; STOP, sit down, look around, and listen for 10 minutes.

OR.....lay back down and finish sleeping it off. I'll bet you didn't even have a first aid kit for that nose. What am I gonna do with you?

[natertot]

I think panic comes from fear that is not controlled. It is okay to be fearfull, but you can't let it overtake you. I realize my fears and take appropriate actions to resolve those situations. As far as lonliness, I know we can't get into religion here, but my God is always with me. Boredom actually surprises me though. One should never be bored in a survival situation. Should always be working on food, water, shelter, hygiene, working on a way out, and being sure that ample rest is acquired. If I was in a fight to survive, boredom would not be a thought in my mind.

[WoodsCustom]

So here's the question, boys and girls, what do you do to solve the problem of Panic and it's two ugly stepsisters? Anybody?

Panic and it's two ugly stepsisters are easy to whip.

If you don't have propper footwear and can't walk, your dead.

WC

[heysmithy]

This kind of reminds me of that movie where Tom Hanks is stranded on the island and makes a friend out of a soccer ball... Meaning boredom nearly killed me while watching that movie.

[WoodsCustom]

This kind of reminds me of that movie where Tom Hanks is stranded on the island and makes a friend out of a soccer ball... Meaning boredom nearly killed me while watching that movie.

NO JOKE!!!

Tom Hanks "WOULD HAVE" been dead within 3-5 days after he nocked that tooth out of his stupid head. It would have became Abcessed, got into his bloodstream, released a toxin in his blood and death.

Luck is all that saved him.

WC GF is in the dental field, she said 9 out of 10 would die.

WC

[Winter]

Get "Where there Is No Doctor" and "Where there Is No Dentist."

Woodscustom, I'm not sure your assessment of self-dentistry is accurate.

[BENESSE]

Get "Where there Is No Doctor" and "Where there Is No Dentist."

Both very useful and a must have in any "survival" liberry.

[kyratshooter]

Ever consider that the soccer ball might have been smarter and provided better company than most people?

[WoodsCustom]

Get "Where there Is No Doctor" and "Where there Is No Dentist."

Woodscustom, I'm not sure your assessment of self-dentistry is accurate.

I don't think Tom Hanks had those books, BUT, he did have some ice skates!!!

WC

[Sarge47]

All's I can say is HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD! :laugh:

[WoodsCustom]

All's I can say is HOORAY FOR HOLLYWOOD! :laugh:

I AGREE 100%!!!

The world of 18 shot 6 shooters, car doors stopping bullets, and no need for antibiotics!

WC

[Beans]

I think part of that too is that too many people have their personal identity wrapped up in their job. Their value in their own eyes is their usefulness or importance in some profession.As far as boredom some people are more prone to it than others. I was an only child back in the day when preants didn't feel the need to have activities to chauffer their kids to. I learned to enjoy my own company. You can be alone without feeling lonely.

AS a "only child" growing up on a farm in the 50's with the nearest playmate 5 miles away I also spend a lot of alone time in the woods, hunting, fishing, exploring, building shelters, hunting arrowheads or anything else I could do when not doing the chores IE Cutting winter wood, feeding, shoveling stuff, bucking bales on and on and on.
A 2x4, a knife, a chisel and a handsaw. I made boats, cars, airplanes, carved wooden knives and spoons. None of which were very good but in my mind's eye they were just like the real things. TV consisted of Gunsmoke once a week at a neighbors house. We drove to town to pick up thing and watch the show. I made western belts and holsters out of tractor tire intertubes. Arrows were made from reeds with a nail or a sharp rock in the end. I carved whistles out of weeping willow branches. Sling shots, homemade bows, Bolos . All provided an outlet for my active mind.

I still spend a lot of my time in solitude doing things I want to do. reloading, leatherwork, reading. I can go the local range by myself when it is closed and spend all day shooting and enjoying the outdoors. We have cruse deer, mule deer jack rabbits, cottontails, quail Etc all over the shooting range.
I think it would be much harder for our younger generation that grew up with computer games DVD, Kindles, cell phones IPod Etc to be without those things.

Have I been lost No! Have I been stranded because of weather High water snow Etc Yes. Chasing cow that got out at night and being caught in storm. Found a shelter build a fire and waited it out until morning. Was my Grandparents concerned. Yes worried Yes they were. Were they scared No, because they knew what I could do. For some reason the cows don’t get loose in the middle of the night when the weather is nice.

We just learned how to deal with cyclones, tornados, Floods, snow and ice storms. I even survived a typhoon after I left the farm .

Yes I walked a 1/4 mile to catch a school bus, uphill both ways. because we lived on one hill top and caught the bus on the other hill top. between was our pasture.

[Beans]

NO JOKE!!!

Tom Hanks "WOULD HAVE" been dead within 3-5 days after he nocked that tooth out of his stupid head. It would have became Abcessed, got into his bloodstream, released a toxin in his blood and death.

Luck is all that saved him.

WC GF is in the dental field, she said 9 out of 10 would die.

WC

Maybe she needs to reaccess. I know people that have pulled their own teeth because they couldn't afford a dentist. Rinsed thier mouth with salt water several time a day and might have even dulled the pain with a little homemade moonshine. I have also know people that have punctured an abessed tooth, packed it with a tea bag to draw the stuff out. none of them died.

I do agree a dentist would have been better

[Sarge47]

Maybe she needs to reaccess. I know people that have pulled their own teeth because they couldn't afford a dentist. Rinsed thier mouth with salt water several time a day and might have even dulled the pain with a little homemade moonshine. I have also know people that have punctured an abessed tooth, packed it with a tea bag to draw the stuff out. none of them died.

I've battled infected teeth for many years now and fight off the infection with Vitamin C. Tom Hanks was drinking Coconut juice and eating the "meat" of it as well. I'm not sure if that would have helped, but possibly? :confused1:

[Winter]

It was already an abscess. That's why it hurt him so bad. Dentists give us antibiotics for abscessed teeth to relieve the pain, swelling, and infection. Once the swelling goes away the tooth will be "loose" and easier to pull.

[crashdive123]

Yeah, but it was a movie. For me - while entertaining - I don't put too much value on medical advice from actors performing memorized lines from a script.

[Winter]

Right Crash, but, it gives us a scenario that everybody has seen and is familiar with as a springboard for discussion.

[crashdive123]

I can't disagree with that.

[1stimestar]

Maybe she needs to reaccess. I know people that have pulled their own teeth because they couldn't afford a dentist. Rinsed thier mouth with salt water several time a day and might have even dulled the pain with a little homemade moonshine. I have also know people that have punctured an abessed tooth, packed it with a tea bag to draw the stuff out. none of them died.

I do agree a dentist would have been better

People do it here quite often.

[frdgrss]

Traning and knowlage

[tjwilhelm]

People do it here quite often.

Seriously curious: What is it, exactly, that people here do quite often? Reaccess? Or, pull their own teeth?

[crashdive123]

I suspect in rural Alaska some self "inflicted" dentistry may be practiced.

[1stimestar]

Ah sorry. Yes pull their own teeth. Villages don't have dentists. And while most Alaska Natives have free dental care, they have to fly into town to get it. Also, we have several Russian communities that keep pretty isolated and do a lot of their own stuff, not having health care.

[Wildthang]

Stay busy until you come up with a solid plan! Once you have a plan, the fear subsides!

[Rick]

There is enormous truth in that post. If you develop a plan it puts you back in control of the situation. The loss of control creates fear. Regaining control reduces it. Good insightful post.

[Wildthang]

Seriously curious: What is it, exactly, that people here do quite often? Reaccess? Or, pull their own teeth?

It seems the people in West Virginia have come up with the answer, most do not have teeth:smartass:

[Cast-Iron]

Good post Sarge. I never gave this much tought. I spend most of my time alone and it can be a problem at times if you're not accustomed to it. But then again I have the option of internet, radio, occasional dvd (no tv), or even a trip into town to help break the monotony. I guess I would keep my mind busy through planning, busy work, or even problem solving. I have a hard time imagining a survival scenario where all your needs are met and all you have to do is sit and wait. Heck if I had that I'm not real sure I'd want to be rescued!

[Ken]

I'm not sure about step-sisters, but I remember one time when I had dates with two sisters in the same week, and they told each other about it, and they both were waiting for me on the night of the first date.....

And that's the kind of panic that you can't possibly plan for.

[hunter63]

Well, well, well, lookie who's here.........had the same problem with french horn players from different schools, went well till we all went to the mass band clinic....sax players here, french horn players there.....you are right, not a pretty sight....

[Sarge47]

I'm not sure about step-sisters, but I remember one time when I had dates with two sisters in the same week, and they told each other about it, and they both were waiting for me on the night of the first date.....

And that's the kind of panic that you can't possibly plan for.

I heard that you really went into a panic when all the ambulance drivers in your area went on strike! The panic was followed by loneliness and boredom...just sayin'. :scared:

[kyratshooter]

I'm not sure about step-sisters, but I remember one time when I had dates with two sisters in the same week, and they told each other about it, and they both were waiting for me on the night of the first date.....

And that's the kind of panic that you can't possibly plan for.

Only a lawyer would try to pull that off, even WITH a plan!

[Rick]

Yeah. Now if we could only find a lawyer.

[SARKY]

I can't believe I haven't responded to this thread before now. I will refer to the "7 Enemies of Survival" (Epigram) Be Prepared To Face These Hostile Factors.
B- Boredom and Loneliness
P- Pain
T- Temperature (hot or cold)
F- Fear
T- Thirst
H- Hunger
F- Fatigue

These are combated by actively implementing the "Pattern For Staying Alive" (Epigram) Few Survivors Find Fast Solutions.
F- Fire
S- Shelter
F- first/self aide
F- Food
S- Signals

If you are actively doing the "Pattern" then the "7 Enemies" will not be a factor.

[Sarge47]

I can't believe I haven't responded to this thread before now. I will refer to the "7 Enemies of Survival" (Epigram) Be Prepared To Face These Hostile Factors.
B- Boredom and Loneliness
P- Pain
T- Temperature (hot or cold)
F- Fear
T- Thirst
H- Hunger
F- Fatigue

These are combated by actively implementing the "Pattern For Staying Alive" (Epigram) Few Survivors Find Fast Solutions.
F- Fire
S- Shelter
F- first/self aide
F- Food
S- Signals

If you are actively doing the "Pattern" then the "7 Enemies" will not be a factor.
Right on, Sarky, Positive Rep on it's way! :yes: