The magic letter "S."

[Sarge47]

Years ago I sold insurance. The big sellers for sales people was cassette tapes, books, and videos on how to become a "SUCCESS!" Yes, the magic letter "S" seems to draw people like a magnet. Every "so-called" sales "guru" that came out of the woodwork would pawn off his media on us. Oh, there were a few who were "spot on," but very few.

It's no different in the "survival" field. There's that magical letter "S" again! Survivorman, Dual Survival, And I Alone Survived, then just look at the books and videos! We can also add Facebook and the web itself to the mix.

The fact of the matter is that outdoors folk were into survival long before it became a media circus. They didn't have fancy gear, clothing, or a wicked looking knife, just what they needed. Some of the best teaching came fro the Boy Scouts. That's right; a bunch of 12 to 16 year-olds could do things that some on here only fantasize about! Kinda makes you think, don't it? :cool2:

[MichMetal]

Well I can't speak on most of that(thanks for the I alone movie, going to check it out) but I do think all the attention wilderness survival is getting right now is one of the best things that could have ever happened to it. With all the people turning into the tv shows etc...there's a good chance this could save more peoples lives which is the most important aspect, and it could also save tax payers money that would otherwise be spent on SAR. I'm sure this has sparked some business for survivalist trainers too, for those that want hands on experience.

[Sarge47]

Well I can't speak on most of that(thanks for the I alone movie, going to check it out) but I do think all the attention wilderness survival is getting right now is one of the best things that could have ever happened to it. With all the people turning into the tv shows etc...there's a good chance this could save more peoples lives which is the most important aspect, and it could also save tax payers money that would otherwise be spent on SAR. I'm sure this has sparked some business for survivalist trainers too, for those that want hands on experience.

My point is, Mitch, that it's really messing things up. BTW, the "And I Alone Survived" was not a movie, but a Discovery series. Another really good one was "I Shouldn't Be Alive; S.O.S. (Science of Survival.)" Here's the problem with the whole thing. Those who know very little about being in the outdoors are "romanticizing" survival. They seem to think that it's some kind of game! There is also a lot of bad information out there that can actually get somebody killed! How does a novice to the outdoors tell the difference? The Boy Scouts have it down cold, yet many ignore that fact and want to follow these self-appointed "survival gurus," why? I wrote a 6 part blog on survival for the beginner based on the 1984 Boy Scout Fieldbook that will give a newcomer to the subject plenty to work on for some time to come. Yet some people want to follow the TV personalities that teach wrong things like telling people it's okay to drink your own urine when all of the experts say NO! You want a good survival book for only the cost of copy paper and ink go to the home page of this site and print out the Military Survival Book. It's not as "sexy" as some of these idiots on TV, but it's the "real deal." :cool2:

[Daniel Nighteyes]

What SARGE said...

[hunter63]

BSA or Boys Scouts of America, and their counterpart The Girls Scouts of America not only have the the camping/survival stuff down ....they are a blue print of creating a attitude and way of life for young men and women.....seemingly needed more now, then anytime in history.

Just review the BSA motto, creed and law to see what it's all about:
Scout Motto
Be prepared.

Scout Creed

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.



Scout Law

A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,
brave, clean, and reverent.

[JPGreco]

As an Eagle myself, I will say though that the quality of the Scout is largely based upon the quality of the adult leadership and finances of the troop. I wish we had been able to spend more time in the outdoors and there were a lot of things we never learned that I'm learning here, but that was a result of being in a much more urban troop.

However, even with that, the basics never change. As a Scout, we never went into the woods without a compass and whistle. Yeah, you might not be able to do as much with those as with a knife, but the reality is, for most kids, the whistle is the life saving item. Basic knowledge of first aid was a requirement for advancement, even at the lower ranks. Then of course there was the buddy system. So even in a troop that wasn't as outdoorsy as other troops due to location, we still knew a lot of the basics.

[Sarge47]

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/entry.php?103-The-way-of-the-Scout! :cool2:

[MichMetal]

Yet some people want to follow the TV personalities that teach wrong things like telling people it's okay to drink your own urine when all of the experts say NO!

Almost everything i've read says urine is safe for the short term unless you have a UTI or similar. As your livers job is to filter things...so urine is sterile, granted the army says it can have up to 2% salt(which your body may need anyway depending on the region) it can still help you survive. You like real life situations so lets go real life

"in 2008, a Chinese man by the name of Shen Peiyun survived six days by laying still and drinking his own urine, which is solid evidence that it won't kill you at least some of the time. While it is not necessarily fatal, it doesn't mean it isn't harmful. For instance, in the case above, no expert has asserted that he would have died without drinking his own urine."

If you go by the rules of 3, then after 3 days he should of been done with no water, yet he lasted 6 days.


http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/a595f8f45bc97dec7a645d9854d48d.jpg?w=363&h=400
“If you have to [drink urine], I suggest you let it cool down first. It doesn’t taste very nice.”

"Ricky Megee stopped to help a couple whose car had broken down. Next, he was waking up with rocks and dirt covering him. The pit was meant to be his final resting place. He claimed to have been drugged and robbed by the couple. Megee suffered from exposure and malnutrition for the next two months. His diet consisted of leeches, lizards, insects, frogs, and snakes. He was forced to drink his urine when he couldn’t find rain puddles to drink from. He weighed 230 pounds before he got lost and weighed 105 pounds at his rescue. The man who found and rescued him described him as a walking skeleton."

[kyratshooter]

Good Lord how did we make the jump from Scouting to drinking urine?

And what was the basic teaching of the Scouts, urban or rural? The core of that code?

SELF RELIANCE!

And what was the motto?

BE PREPARED

Has it now changed to: "I never did it myself but I saw a guy do it on U-Tube?"

I hope not.

A lot changed from the time I left scouting until my son was old enough to join. They had gone so pansey he was not even interested. He always claimed we could go camping, get home and have the gear cleaned and put away, and do the same the next week while the troop was still working on the food list.

[Sarge47]

Almost everything i've read says urine is safe for the short term unless you have a UTI or similar. As your livers job is to filter things...so urine is sterile, granted the army says it can have up to 2% salt(which your body may need anyway depending on the region) it can still help you survive. You like real life situations so lets go real life

"in 2008, a Chinese man by the name of Shen Peiyun survived six days by laying still and drinking his own urine, which is solid evidence that it won't kill you at least some of the time. While it is not necessarily fatal, it doesn't mean it isn't harmful. For instance, in the case above, no expert has asserted that he would have died without drinking his own urine."

If you go by the rules of 3, then after 3 days he should of been done with no water, yet he lasted 6 days.


http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/a595f8f45bc97dec7a645d9854d48d.jpg?w=363&h=400
“If you have to [drink urine], I suggest you let it cool down first. It doesn’t taste very nice.”

"Ricky Megee stopped to help a couple whose car had broken down. Next, he was waking up with rocks and dirt covering him. The pit was meant to be his final resting place. He claimed to have been drugged and robbed by the couple. Megee suffered from exposure and malnutrition for the next two months. His diet consisted of leeches, lizards, insects, frogs, and snakes. He was forced to drink his urine when he couldn’t find rain puddles to drink from. He weighed 230 pounds before he got lost and weighed 105 pounds at his rescue. The man who found and rescued him described him as a walking skeleton."

I don't understand you, you come on this site claiming to be inexperienced then try to "teach the teachers." You just proved my point that these shows teach that certain things are okay when in reality they can KILL you! So one guy lived, so what? How many have died doing it? Research that. What does the US ARMY SURVIVAL MANUAL shown on the home page of this very site teach? (chapter 5 or 6.) Here's what "The SAS Survival Handbook" by John "Lofty" Wiseman teaches about it on page 42:

"WARNING: URINE AND SEAWATER: Never drink either-Never!" So who are you going to believe? Several years ago, when this forum was in it's infancy and the only two survival shows on TV were Survivorman and Man vs. Wild, two guys from Canada showed up deciding that they were going to go into the Boreal Forest in October and "survive" for a month with just their knives and the clothes on their backs! They wanted to prove that they knew more than the guys on TV! They had no knowledge of the wild edible plants in that area and wanted to know which ones were safe to eat. Many of us tried talking sense to them, but they thought that they knew more than the people on here. Fortunately for them they didn't die, but they didn't last the month either. They made it home wet, hungry, and miserable in half the planned time. You can read about it here: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?378-Living-in-the-woods-The-Bare-Wilderness-Numptys!&highlight=bare+wilderness+numpties You'll have to read through some other posts to get to their stuff, but check it out! Mitch, you want to learn then really, you need to sit down and listen, not try going against what is being said here! Nobody wants anything bad for you. :cool2:

[MichMetal]

@Sarge47 i'm not going to argue with you anymore, I read the posts you made about your friend and life and I better understand where you're coming from now as a person, though as a new comer your others posts painted a different picture so i'm glad I read the those posts that really matter.

[hunter63]

And away we go..........

[Sarge47]

@Sarge47 i'm not going to argue with you anymore, I read the posts you made about your friend and life and I better understand where you're coming from now as a person, though as a new comer your others posts painted a different picture so i'm glad I read the those posts that really matter.

I wasn't a moderator back then and was a bit more "gruff." However why argue in the 1st place? Why not listen to the experts? I'm not referring to me; like you, I'm also a student. However it was YOU who claimed to be inexperienced, right? I'm not trying to be a smart-arse here, just trying to understand.:cool2:

[MichMetal]

I wasn't a moderator back then and was a bit more "gruff." However why argue in the 1st place? Why not listen to the experts?

I do, and the experts disagree on the urine thing, as my original post was talking about before I edited, but there have been plenty real life examples of people who used it and lived. So if it was a life and death situation and I had no choice i'd drink the urine and maybe end up in the hospital vs laying down to die every time.

[Rick]

Mich - The experts disagree because most aren't experts. If you want to know the skinny, ask your doctor. You don't have to worry about your liver, it's the kidneys that create urine. You need to closely examine what urine is composed of. Mostly urea with chloride, sodium, potassium and creatinine. That's the bulk of it anyway. And urine is not sterile when it comes out. It is sterile until it reaches the urethra (the tube from the bladder to the genitals). Once it gets there then it comes in contact with bacteria. The reason your urine smells is because of bacterial action.

But put all of that aside. If you need to drink your urine that means you are dehydrated. That also means those things that make up the urine are becoming more and more concentrated as you produce less and less water in the urine. Bad stuff for the kidneys and other organs.

Lot's of folks have drank urine for one reason or another. But most were also hydrated. To proclaim that one person drank his urine and survived is anecdotal at best. You have no idea whether he would have survived had he not drank it or whether he would have been in better shape had he not. There is no conclusion that can be drawn. All you can say is he didn't die. The reason is unknown.

I doubt you'll find a medical professional that would encourage you to drink urine at a time when you are dehydrated. They probably wouldn't advise it at any time but certainly not then. I hope that helps.

[Sarge47]

EVERY survival book and expert states that the only time you can SAFELY drink urine is when it's been distilled; the same with sea water. However, if you learn the things that you need to know then you'll never have to worry about it. You can safely drink rain water, water from a seep, and even water from a pool...maybe. However, sorta like you, if I have a choice to drink either questionable water from a pool or my own urine then the pool wins, hands down. Also, why would I ever listen to anybody that teaches different than all of the survival handbooks? That sends a "red flag" up to me. Anyway, it's your body, do what you want with it. :cool2:

[Rick]

You can safely drink rain water, water from a seep, and even water from a pool...maybe.

I'm glad you stuck that "maybe" in there. Kids do some nasty stuff in a pool. When the water is cold and they are smilin' you know what they're up to.

[MichMetal]

To be fair gentlemen at least two survival experts have done this on tv. Both are well known, both have written books I believe and also the examples i've given shown real life people have survived off drinking their own urine...urine is mostly made up of water from what I read, granted everytime you pee and drink it it loses its value. I'm not saying everyone should go out an drink their urine for fun, i'm saying absolutely worse scenario where water can't be found.

[Sarge47]

To be fair gentlemen at least two survival experts have done this on tv.

And they were? For the record I don't consider either Bear Grylls or Mykel Hawke any kind of a survival expert. Have you ever read any of the reviews of their books? You can on Amazon. Also, The late Dr. Ron Hood was involved with the original "Man vs. Wild" series left in utter disgust. I truly miss Ron Hood, he knew his stuff for sure. However, stick to your beliefs and don't listen to us, what do we know? :cool2:

[Daniel Nighteyes]

MichMetal,

I am thinking about re-naming you Quixote because of your demonstrated propensity for tilting at windmills...

While there are SOME (extrmely limited) circumstances where it is relatively safe to drink one's own urine, the generally-accepted rule is "DON'T!" That's what the experts, and several people on this Board, have told you. That's what I'm telling you.

You are, as always, free to do as you wish.

-- Nighteyes

[Winter]

Whether urine can or cannot be used is missing the point.

You should be able to find some water, somewhere, if you have a suitable skillset. If you are drinking piss, you have bigger problems.

One of my survival instructors said it best;" Do not believe anything I've said till I show you it can be done."

Anybody who wants to can drink their own piss and write a review. That would be educational and inspiring.

Inspiring in a way that makes a person want to learn more about water procurement.

[Sarge47]

Whether urine can or cannot be used is missing the point.

You should be able to find some water, somewhere, if you have a suitable skillset. If you are drinking piss, you have bigger problems.

One of my survival instructors said it best;" Do not believe anything I've said till I show you it can be done."

Anybody who wants to can drink their own piss and write a review. That would be educational and inspiring.

Inspiring in a way that makes a person want to learn more about water procurement.

Agreed! Great post! Rep sent! :cool2:

[MichMetal]

MichMetal,

I am thinking about re-naming you Quixote because of your demonstrated propensity for tilting at windmills...

While there are SOME (extrmely limited) circumstances where it is relatively safe to drink one's own urine, the generally-accepted rule is "DON'T!" That's what the experts, and several people on this Board, have told you. That's what I'm telling you.

You are, as always, free to do as you wish.

-- Nighteyes

Sorry but my handle is MichMetal and if you want me to read what you say, you'll refer to me as that or something similar, MM, Mich, whatever. In terms of this thread everyone says "never drink your urine" not "only in some circumstances" they said never. YOu know what I find interesting? This site is apparently based a lot off the Army survival manual, and yet Sarge47
doesn't see Mykel Hawke, who's a retired U.S. Army Special Forces officer, as "any kind of a survival expert". Really? are you ex special forces? Of course not, many aren't, only a select few are or were,the elite. And yet he's not seen as an expert...see this is the issue I have, i hear a lot of talk from you guys about how you're experts but that's all I see...Mike, and others are proven experts with tons of accolades doing the opposite of what you guys claim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykel_Hawke
He's written 4 books, has been on various tv shows and runs a combat medical school. Yeah i'm going to think you guys are more experience/skilled then this guy because you say you are? right...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Grylls
Bear Grylls is ALSO ex United Kingdom Special Forces and also been on various tv shows

[Sarge47]

Sorry but my handle is MichMetal and if you want me to read what you say, you'll refer to me as that or something similar, MM, Mich, whatever. In terms of this thread everyone says "never drink your urine" not "only in some circumstances" they said never. YOu know what I find interesting? This site is apparently based a lot off the Army survival manual, and yet Sarge47
doesn't see Mykel Hawke, who's a retired U.S. Army Special Forces officer, as "any kind of a survival expert". Really? are you ex special forces? Of course not, many aren't, only a select few are or were,the elite. And yet he's not seen as an expert...see this is the issue I have, i hear a lot of talk from you guys about how you're experts but that's all I see...Mike, and others are proven experts with tons of accolades doing the opposite of what you guys claim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykel_Hawke
He's written 4 books, has been on various tv shows and runs a combat medical school. Yeah i'm going to think you guys are more experience/skilled then this guy because you say you are? right...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Grylls
Bear Grylls is ALSO ex United Kingdom Special Forces and also been on various tv shows

If Bear is ex-SAS why does he disagree with the SAS survival manual? If Mykel Hawke is a survival expert because of his Special Forces training then why does he go against the US Army Survival Manual? Where did you hear that we are all experts? Thank you for considering me one, but I'm not. I just study hard from the real experts, such as:

Cody Lundin
Dr. Ron Hood(who was also ex-military BTW)
Mors Kochanski
The Boy Scouts of America
John "Lofty" Wiseman

Answer my questions if you can. I'll tell you why, IMO, it's that big fat paycheck they get for doing what the producers ask. Survival schools are big money. I looked over Hawke's web-site and wouldn't consider the man any kind of expert, just a business man. I put him right alongside Army Ranger Dick...er...uh...I mean Rick! However believe them if you will and not us, but if that's what you believe, and not us, then why are you still here? :confused1:

[Sarge47]

...of beating my head against the wall. Mitch, I am through answering your posts. Daniel Nighteyes may consider you Don Quixote but I really don't want him thinking that of me. I'll answer anybody else on here, but since you have stated that you don't respect my opinion then it serves no purpose for me to continue any sort of discussion with you. Why should I waste my time when you have made it obvious that you are going to believe whatever you want despite anything that I respond with? Perhaps if I was on TV....:confused1:

[MichMetal]

...of beating my head against the wall. Mitch, I am through answering your posts. Daniel Nighteyes may consider you Don Quixote but I really don't want him thinking that of me. I'll answer anybody else on here, but since you have stated that you don't respect my opinion then it serves no purpose for me to continue any sort of discussion with you. Why should I waste my time when you have made it obvious that you are going to believe whatever you want despite anything that I respond with? Perhaps if I was on TV....:confused1:

My goal is knowledge, as much as I can possibly get out of here and other places, but with that said the internet is a tricky place and one can't simply take everything presented as fact. There's a word for that actually and I believe it's "gullible" heh. In terms of this topic there's clearly a disagreement in what's useful or not useful so I have to go off each sides argument and decide for myself. If that upsets you to the point you aren't going to continue any sort of discussion with me, well that's your choice.

[Rick]

You know, I've tried to be nice to you. The way you treated Crash you would have been banned on most other boards. You simply don't get to talk to moderators like that. Here, it's a little different. Crash is a smart, knowledgeable, well respected, affable guy and you thoroughly trashed him. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. In fact, most of what you post has been wrong. Not one person has come to your rescue in any post. Not one. Everyone has told you that you are wrong and yet you insist you are correct. You should really, really think about that. Personally, I think you like to hear your gums flap.

Aurelias or someone gave you the best advice you've received so far. Sit down, shut up and listen. In any case, you are a poor student if learning was your objective for being here. I'm beginning to think you are more likely a troll. In any case, this is my last post to you. You've worn through my good natured veneer.

[MichMetal]

You know, I've tried to be nice to you. The way you treated Crash you would have been banned on most other boards. You simply don't get to talk to moderators like that. Here, it's a little different. Crash is a smart, knowledgeable, well respected, affable guy and you thoroughly trashed him. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. In fact, most of what you post has been wrong. Not one person has come to your rescue in any post. Not one. Everyone has told you that you are wrong and yet you insist you are correct. You should really, really think about that. Personally, I think you like to hear your gums flap.

Aurelias or someone gave you the best advice you've received so far. Sit down, shut up and listen. In any case, you are a poor student if learning was your objective for being here. I'm beginning to think you are more likely a troll. In any case, this is my last post to you. You've worn through my good natured veneer.

Here's some advice to you, stop insulting new members? I'm tired of you and others insulting me personally not to mention telling me to shutup etc...look at just about any threads i've been a part of, personal attacks left and right, and i've tolerated them when I shouldn't have. Crash is whining because I don't take his opinion as fact and I think he needs to get over it, and you need to learn how to be fair and balanced. I don't care if he's a moderator or not, you both need to work on your people skills IMHO. BTW sarge self admittedly isn't even an expert yet i'm suppose to listen to him over real life experts? No logic in that.

[Rick]

Don't say I didn't warn ya. Now you don't have to worry about being insulted.

[crashdive123]

Geez - I respond to him about a dozen times trying to be helpful and make one post calling him a spoiled child (which apparently is fact and not opinion based on these outburst of righteous indignation). If that is whining, I guess that must be the new definition. Trust me kid - there is nothing to get over.

Rick, based on his attitude I suspect you were correct about him being a troll. Either way - he was certainly given the opportunity to stay and learn - he chose differently.

[Sarge47]

Actually it was me who told him to sit down, shut up, and listen. Dude was a troll that was trying to play us. Say bye-bye Mitchie! :creepy:

[hunter63]

Took y'all a while to figure it out, but I guess the urge to set things right seem to overwhelm what is happening right before our eyes.

Oh well........carry on.

[Sarge47]

Took y'all a while to figure it out, but I guess the urge to set things right seem to overwhelm what is happening right before our eyes.

Oh well........carry on.

Yeah, poor "Mitchie the Kid!" Probably sittin' in front of his computer drowning his sorrows in a warm cup of piss! Oh well, maybe he'll find somebody who truly cares...I hear Bear Grylls is looking for work. :creepy:

[crashdive123]

Took y'all a while to figure it out, but I guess the urge to set things right seem to overwhelm what is happening right before our eyes.

Oh well........carry on.

I think he was pegged pretty early on. For me - the desire is to have as many people participate as possible. They learn - I learn. In an effort to excuse behavior that is not accustomed to interacting with strangers on the internet in a civil manner I believe he was given several opportunities to "get it". As I said......he chose differently.

[RangerXanatos]

I guess he wasn't affected by Rainbow Dash's Sonic Rainboom? I figured early on he was just trolling with us. 25 and a $4 knife is your first knife? Has he never been to a yardsale or much less a kitchen?

[hunter63]

........and bought it off the interweb......hasn't heard of Gander Mountain, or Cabelas?...of course there are times when I wish i hadn't either....but I digress.

Sad, as new ideas do show up from time to time with new people,...I thinking we were the diversion/entertainment....say bye.

[JPGreco]

aww, I'm too late with the best quote ever about drinking pee...

"Is it necessary to drink my own urine? No, but its sterile and I like the taste."

[randyt]

if it's ok to consume water eliminated by the body, is it ok to consume solid waste eliminated by the body?

[hunter63]

Sign above urinal in saloon......
"We don't sell beer here, we just rent it"

[crashdive123]

Sign above urinal in saloon......
"We don't sell beer here, we just rent it"

And.....

Don't eat the giant breath mints.

[JPGreco]

The best thing I've seen in a bathroom was a "No Diving" sticker on the toilet seat. No idea why, but that just had me laughing. It even had the little picture of the guy hitting his head on the bottom of the pool.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

MichMetal,

I am thinking about re-naming you Quixote because of your demonstrated propensity for tilting at windmills...


Sorry but my handle is MichMetal and if you want me to read what you say, you'll refer to me as that or something similar, MM, Mich, whatever.

That was my friendly caution that you've made your way out onto extremely thin ice. From this point forward I'll not refer to you at all.

Best wishes on your future endeavors.

[Sarge47]

That was my friendly caution that you've made your way out onto extremely thin ice. From this point forward I'll not refer to you at all.

Best wishes on your future endeavors.

Just call him "gone!" :wavey:

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Just call him "gone!" :wavey:

Back in the Citizen's Band radio days we'd have called him an "Alligator" -- big mouth, no ears. And that's too bad.

-- Nighteyes