"I ran away to off-grid Wilderness & LIVED".

[Sourdough]

Just a small ray of HOPE for the youth who want to Live in the wilderness. I did it, I am still alive at 65 y/o.
It is doable today, in fact with todays higher quality tools, it might even be easier. My advise is do it where there is year around food like fish.

You will need skills.

I ran away from home at age 15 and never went back. I served a very rigid 4 year apprenticeship, and my journeyman papers are signed by Nelson Rockefeller, then Governor of New York. Spent 4 years at Rochester Institute of Technology studying Mechanical Engineering.

At age 22 I took my skills, and $127.00 cash money, and moved to Alaska.

[TresMon]

Very Cool!!! Thanks for sharing.

[randyt]

many times a fella will mover to a place and never make enough money to leave LOL, just funning around. I think it's a great post. Thank you

[intothenew]

You studied thermodynamics, and then moved to Alaska? Rankine and Kelvin weren't very big influences on ya' were they?

[Sourdough]

You studied thermodynamics, and then moved to Alaska? Rankine and Kelvin weren't very big influences on ya' were they?

Don't know who or what they are. Served a 8,000 hour apprenticeship as a Machinists/Tool & Die Maker. At that time Farrel Corp. built the largest machine tools in the world. Lathes 200+ feet long, Boring Mills 4 stories high.

[intothenew]

Don't know who or what they are...........

If you have to explain a joke, it's not funny. But, allow me to entertain myself.

Thermodynamics, in a simple explanation, is the study of heat. It is commonly a course of study in ME. Rankine and Kelvin were two scientists that defined absolute zero, no heat, nada, nothing. There are temperature scales named after each that are used in thermo cipherin'. Those guys knew cold, real cold, and defined it.

[BENESSE]

In looking back, SD, is there anything you would have done differently, if you had a chance?

I ask this only because in the last year of my mom's life we were able to really talk as friends for the first time and she shared some vulnerabilities (borne out of just not knowing any better) I thought she'd never bring herself admitting to, or to doing anything that was less than perfect. I learned a lot from that; I respected her more and loved her more and felt closer than I ever did before.
So the point of my question really is....is not to be hesitant to share with young people the mistakes you've made along with the victories. I happen to believe one learns from mistakes much more than from successes. And if it's other people's, so much the smarter.

[Pal334]

A plus 1 on MRS B post. I would like to hear a bit more about your experiences, the good the bad and the ugly.

[Sourdough]

In looking back, SD, is there anything you would have done differently, if you had a chance?

I ask this only because in the last year of my mom's life we were able to really talk as friends for the first time and she shared some vulnerabilities (borne out of just not knowing any better) I thought she'd never bring herself admitting to, or to doing anything that was less than perfect. I learned a lot from that; I respected her more and loved her more and felt closer than I ever did before.

So the point of my question really is....is not to be hesitant to share with young people the mistakes you've made along with the victories. I happen to believe one learns from mistakes much more than from successes. And if it's other people's, so much the smarter.


B, I made truly thousands of mistakes. Some nearly fatal. I would never go off grid, there are too many wonderful locations in the wilderness that have power. The big thing I would change is I would have chosen south east Alaska.

[Rick]

It's not too late. Ketchikan and Sitka might be calling your name. Vancouver might even be whispering your name. You can never tell.

[BENESSE]

That's a good start, SD.
But running away at 15?

[Sourdough]

That's a good start, SD.
But running away at 15?

My father was very abusive. I went to school mornings only. I got two jobs, worked from noon till 9:PM got a room with breakfast for $35.00 a week from a lady who had a son my age. And I finished high school with my class of 65'.

[oldtrap59]

My hats off to ya SD. Since I was getting my first job about the same time you were I know what the pay level was for a high school kid working partime. I would have had a tough time living on the 65 cents an hour I made flipping burgers at the new fast food place in town.( Henry's Hamburgers) No wonder your so self sufficent man. You been doing it for 50 years. Really liked the post.

Oldtrap

[Sourdough]

The point that I am trying to make to those who think they want the wilderness life is: YOU have to have skills, You have to be able to disassemble and (harder) re-assemble a chainsaw, and dozens of other tools. There is very little that is like camping, and none of it is Primitive Camping. If your skilled as a Carpenter, Millwright, Mechanic & have a high mechanical aptitude, you have a chance. I might add 14 to 16 hour days of hard manual labor.

[BENESSE]

You graduated from the school of hard knocks, SD.
It's the kind of education that's thrust upon you, and if you have any brains and brawn, you make it through and you learn from it. If you lack either, you better believe in luck.

[LowKey]

You grew up doing it SD. That makes a huge difference between you and the kids that want to go out there today.
If they haven't had to be self-sufficient and self-reliant, they endanger themselves and others with them.
But as you point out, you are living proof it CAN be done.

[grizzlyadam]

Love this forum, hands down to you SD. So, mind if I ask what your initial living situation was like? Like, we're you completely off-grid or did you re-supply once in a while and work part-time. And what did you bring with you that was not procured from the land?

[Warheit]

Very interesting takes.

I just don't see many young people having the desire or ability to do what you accomplished. There are a lot of reasons for this. Simply, the times are changing.

[crashdive123]

Very interesting takes.

I just don't see many young people having the desire or ability to do what you accomplished. There are a lot of reasons for this. Simply, the times are changing.

Wait a second. In this thread http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?18417-Is-it-just-me/page2 you said:
A lot of generalizations being made in this thread. A shame. So which is it?

[rockriver]

Someday soon, I will make up there to AK. There is something about that place that keeps calling my name. A good friend is up there on Kodiac right now driving log truck. He sends pics almost daily to add to my yearning. It does look like a rough, rugged place to go trying to live off the land, but I would love to slowly gain the experience.

[grizzlyadam]

I think I may stick to the rockies of B.C. just seems to have everything, less cold, more mountainous variety, guessing more wild game food. Just seems like a more comfortable environment for the long haul.

Not to mention I have countless hours of research invested in the local wildlife ("steak" AND "veggies") as well as the geography, and laws governing the land.

But hey if Alaska is calling you, follow your calling. Just remember to go well prepared for any and all circumstances you may encounter, and who knows, one day if you go, I may feel like I need a change and decide to make a (roughly guessing) 750? Km journey into a different environment and bump into you. :)

[Warheit]

Wait a second. In this thread http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?18417-Is-it-just-me/page2 you said: So which is it?

It is what it is. I didn't agree with the premise that the new generation are a bunch of spoiled, misguided goons who can't look after themeslves.

Kids growing up today are not as handy as there predecessors. I won't debate that -- because I witness it first hand. Generations before them had a different culture to live in and had a different way of living life. Those who are avid in the outdoors probably had a reason for it -- and were likely raised in an area or time where being self-sufficient was a priority: such as being farmers, ranchers, etc. Back then, it was imperative to learn those skills and trade skills were passed down from generation to generation. For example: I come from a long line of German-Russians who are workers with their hands, mostly farmers. When most of my family moved from farms into the city in the early 1900s, they kept what was necessary to survive, but also let go of alot of things they didn't need. Instance: My mother, father and grandparents still garden and grow their own food to this day -- which was something instilled and taught to me as a young boy.

Is that knowledge something that a 17 year old kid in New York City has to have in order to make it through their journey? Probably not. City life is different -- and has its own demons and battles to prepare against. More kids and families live in urban environments today as opposed to decades ago where most of the population was located in rural areas. One's environment is a huge factor on how we adapt. It's not that the younger generations aren't self-sufficient -- they just are adapting differently. Technology is dynamic and one of the biggest change agents there is. I wouldn't classify kids getting gadgets (tech) as being spoiled. More often than not, there is a reason and place for it. It isn't just keeping up with the Jones', even though keeping up with them might be a good idea.

Whether or not reliance on newer technology is a positive or negative for the new generation to take the becaon forward is highly debatable. In most cases, whether it be school or work, kids need to keep pace with what is being put out there. Job markets are a grind -- there is hardly a place for an analog man in a digital world. That seems to be a disconnect some have on the forum and just can't come to terms with. You may have away about going through life, but that doesn't mean it's applicable to others. To stay with the times, you have to adjust to them or you will be left behind.

Living off-the grid for some of those reasons (and many more) probably isn't ideal or appealing to those growing up now. That isn't a generalization on my part -- but just a quick analysis of how things have changed over time.

My two cents.

[BENESSE]

I don't disagree with anything you said, W.
The only observation I might add in general (from NYC, btw) is that the younger generation seems to be not quite as adaptable to 180 change of direction or doing more with less.

[JPGreco]

I can vouch for that B. A friend of mine has a "cabin" in NH. Its more like a little ranch home. It has electric, a kitchen w/ stove and fridge. It has beds and couches. It has a shower with heated water. Heat is provided by a wood burning stove. Thanks to my dad, a coworker, and myself, it has a new roof and we added a boat toilet (self contained toilet) into the shower room to make it a full bathroom. Its about 45 minutes from Conway, NH (typical small tourist town).

Now, I've invited numerous friends to go with me this spring to hang out. The only condition I put on them is that we will only use the outhouse as a toilet (I don't see the point of dealing with cleaning out the boat toilet when there is perfectly good outhouse). Almost all of my friends have refused to go based on the fact there is an outhouse. There is also no tv in the place and no cell service unless you go out to the road. They can't adapt to a simpler way of living for a few days to see some of the most incredible landscapes. They would rather pay for modern conveniences than stay for free.

Thankfully my closest friends want to go.

(I am not the younger generation either, I'm 30, so I grew up without all these modern techs)

[hunter63]

LOL, You are right, a hooter separates the men from the real men.....and women, quick.

[crashdive123]

LOL, You are right, a hooter separates the men from the real men.....and women, quick.

Well Duh!

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc338/saugushoot/hooters2.jpg

[Rick]

JP - It's not that they can't adapt for a few days. It's just that they don't want to. There's a difference. If they had no choice they would probably adapt just fine. There are some things my friends enjoy that I haven't the slightest interest in. They may well think I can't adapt when I just choose not to enjoy something their way.

[Rick]

SD - A question for you. Would it be fair to say that when you first went to Alaska it wasn't to live in the wilds as some express they want to do. Rather you went there in a more conventional way by finding a job and earning a living. I don't mean to imply that it was an easy life or comparable to life in the lower 48. It's just your title gives the impression you went from Pa to the wilderness when off grid was really a process of earning your stripes over many years?

You know I have much respect for your skills and those of our other AK members. You all have done something I wouldn't even attempt. I just don't want some young whipper snapper to think they can trek out into Turnagain Pass or squat on the shores of Eclutna Lake and live off willows and seeds for the winter.

[your_comforting_company]

I'm with Rick. It's too darn cold up there for a country boy like me. It's 25 degrees here again this morning and I'm wrapped up like a burrito INSIDE the house.

[Sourdough]

SD - A question for you. Would it be fair to say that when you first went to Alaska it wasn't to live in the wilds as some express they want to do.

I came to Alaska to hunt big bears. America had a military draft, that was a lottery draft system at that time. It was clear that I was to be drafted in mid summer or early fall, and I wanted to hunt Alaska before getting drafted.

The government paid for all of my education & apprenticeship. It appears that the program I was in (Unknown to me) was funded by the Dept. of Defense.

[TheWildCallsToME]

Your story gives me hope! I'm 22 and prepping to go out and live a more natural and free life.

I hate paperwork...

[crashdive123]

Your story gives me hope! I'm 22 and prepping to go out and live a more natural and free life.

I hate paperwork...

Use Mullen leaves.

[BENESSE]

Instead of TP?

[Rick]

Well, that or your finger. Whichever you've been using.

[crashdive123]

Well, he did say he hated paperwork.

[BENESSE]

If you can't find Mullen leaves...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UxAVihtOSQ&feature=related

[Rick]

Never do that in a talus field or on a beach. Don't ask how I know just take my word for it.

[Sparky93]

It is what it is. I didn't agree with the premise that the new generation are a bunch of spoiled, misguided goons who can't look after themeslves.

Kids growing up today are not as handy as there predecessors. I won't debate that -- because I witness it first hand. Generations before them had a different culture to live in and had a different way of living life. Those who are avid in the outdoors probably had a reason for it -- and were likely raised in an area or time where being self-sufficient was a priority: such as being farmers, ranchers, etc. Back then, it was imperative to learn those skills and trade skills were passed down from generation to generation. For example: I come from a long line of German-Russians who are workers with their hands, mostly farmers. When most of my family moved from farms into the city in the early 1900s, they kept what was necessary to survive, but also let go of alot of things they didn't need. Instance: My mother, father and grandparents still garden and grow their own food to this day -- which was something instilled and taught to me as a young boy.

Is that knowledge something that a 17 year old kid in New York City has to have in order to make it through their journey? Probably not. City life is different -- and has its own demons and battles to prepare against. More kids and families live in urban environments today as opposed to decades ago where most of the population was located in rural areas. One's environment is a huge factor on how we adapt. It's not that the younger generations aren't self-sufficient -- they just are adapting differently. Technology is dynamic and one of the biggest change agents there is. I wouldn't classify kids getting gadgets (tech) as being spoiled. More often than not, there is a reason and place for it. It isn't just keeping up with the Jones', even though keeping up with them might be a good idea.

Whether or not reliance on newer technology is a positive or negative for the new generation to take the becaon forward is highly debatable. In most cases, whether it be school or work, kids need to keep pace with what is being put out there. Job markets are a grind -- there is hardly a place for an analog man in a digital world. That seems to be a disconnect some have on the forum and just can't come to terms with. You may have away about going through life, but that doesn't mean it's applicable to others. To stay with the times, you have to adjust to them or you will be left behind.

Living off-the grid for some of those reasons (and many more) probably isn't ideal or appealing to those growing up now. That isn't a generalization on my part -- but just a quick analysis of how things have changed over time.

My two cents.

I would say not all of the my generation has lost the skills of the past generations. I am 18 going on 19, when I was about 12 I was given the option of a laptop or a canoe for Christmas and chose the canoe. My dad has taught me many things, I love to hunt and fish, frog gig, jug, run a trot-line, trap. About 4 or 5 years ago we had a bad wind storm that laid a lot of corn down and we gleaned enough corn to feed out to steers. Most of the meat we eat comes from cows we've fed out or the deer we've taken. We used to have a huge garden where we grew cucumbers, beans, sweet corn, zucchinis, tomatoes peppers, etc. the vegetables were canned and the left over sweet corn was blanched and frozen. I can work on a truck and fix most any problem if it can be fixed with the tools at my disposal. I would rather help put up hay, unload seed off a semi, clean out horse stalls, or build fence, than sit around complaining how bored I am.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I have many friends who fit your description to a tee. I'm just saying that there are some people out there that are still handy in the ways of the past.

[Rick]

You lost me on that cleaning out stalls thing. Being bored is not that bad.

[wholsomback]

One day I will return to AK.

[Warheit]

I would say not all of the my generation has lost the skills of the past generations. I am 18 going on 19, when I was about 12 I was given the option of a laptop or a canoe for Christmas and chose the canoe. My dad has taught me many things, I love to hunt and fish, frog gig, jug, run a trot-line, trap. About 4 or 5 years ago we had a bad wind storm that laid a lot of corn down and we gleaned enough corn to feed out to steers. Most of the meat we eat comes from cows we've fed out or the deer we've taken. We used to have a huge garden where we grew cucumbers, beans, sweet corn, zucchinis, tomatoes peppers, etc. the vegetables were canned and the left over sweet corn was blanched and frozen. I can work on a truck and fix most any problem if it can be fixed with the tools at my disposal. I would rather help put up hay, unload seed off a semi, clean out horse stalls, or build fence, than sit around complaining how bored I am.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I have many friends who fit your description to a tee. I'm just saying that there are some people out there that are still handy in the ways of the past.

First and foremost -- thanks for the post! Well-reasoned and level -- 'ppreciate that!

Yes, they are out there, but for our generation people like you and I are exceptions, not the rule. FWIW: You and I are pretty much on the same wave-length. Did you happen to grow up in a smaller town or rural area? By your subsistence patterns and way of life, I'd guess that more than a city dweller. My grandparents on both sides owned farms (one also raised horses) and sold them and moved into a small town back in the 1960s. I'm still a pretty handy person (compared to most in our age range, I'll be 25 in April) -- but I wonder what my life would had been liked had my family not abandoned their old way of life. (On my dad's side, they didn't have a choice, my grandfather died when my dad was 10 and there wasn't someone old enough in their family or able to take care of all the things they had -- so making a change was the most rational choice.)

More than anything, I'm technologically skilled and inclined. I got my first computer when I was 3 (Tandy 386) and have been an avid user ever since. I obtained my Bachelors of Science in two different fields (Political Science and Anthropology), but my technological skills are undoubtedly what have put me ahead of others in the job market. My first job off the rip was being a Legal Analyst and Specialist. My second job (after I moved to Colorado) deals with publication and database development, and I also do quite a bit of sales and marketing.

Neither (besides in-depth knowledge of law and the legal system through school) of those positions related to what I did through University, but required extensive knowledge in computers, programming, etc. that I obtained off the side because of my avid interest in such matters. My father was a smart guy and knew that the very fabric we're speaking over would have a profound impact the world over. He's still shocked that I didn't end up majoring in Computer Science or MIS. I just wasn't interested in taking all the math required to obtain the degree.

So long story short, I guess I'm thankful on my upbringing. I have a mix of the old ways and the new ways and I feel pretty well-equipped moving forward. Overall, I think the discourse in this thread has been pretty negative to us younglings, but most every older generation puts their nose down on those who replace them, but it's understandable. Kids ten to fifteen years younger than me are learning information in new ways and receiving it faster than ever before. I'm going to have to keep my will strong and aspirations up, or I'll end up like the middle-aged analogs who are losing to the youth digitals these days.

Take care homie!

[Rick]

Overall, I think the discourse in this thread has been pretty negative to us younglings, but most every older generation puts their nose down on those who replace them

It's that way with every generation. You'll be the same way as will your generation.

[Sparky93]

Warheit, I grew up in a rural area. Town is about a 8 minute drive, but it's not much of a town, has a few places to eat, grocery store pharmacy, ahhh... the bustling metropolis of Petersburg lol. My dad runs a feed store that has been in our family since 1914, I think he is the fourth generation. My dad raises horses and team ropes, he used to shoe horses as a side job and the hospital bills from when I was born were paid for by shoeing horses.

Computers and I have a love hate relationship lol. I love to CAD and have dabbled in C programming before, but when it comes to figuring out problems with a computer or getting them to work sometimes they are a pain in my keester. I am currently majoring in mechanical engineering technology at Purdue University and am considering minoring in CGT.