IDIOTIC gun stuph..........

[TresMon]

Me & KYratshooter mentioned some stuff that bugs us we see at the range behind the scenes in PM. It gave me the idea for this thread:

All of us shooters have heard some incredible Bull Hockey from/around other shooters at one time or another.

I have heard enough hockey among shooters to sink an aircraft carrier, but the one I'm gonna share below is takes the cake for what I have heard.
================================================== ======================================

I used to sell guns:
A farmer (REALLY LOOKED THE PART) came in hopping mad about coyotes killing his cattle/calves.

He said to me "I want the most accurate- furthest shooting rifle you got on that rack." {It was at a big box sporting good store with typical hunt'n rifles on the rack.]

I responded "well sir, the most accurate rifle I have is our high-end Weatherby mark V- they come with a proof target. As far as long range I'd suggest 7mmRM as the 7mm's are high BC bullets."

"Lemme see it."

I pulled the rifle off the rack and went and found the box and presented him with the proof target.

He replied "I'll take it."

I having been inundated with demands to create "add on sales" said "nice choice sir. Now let me show you some quality scopes that would be worthy of such a rifle."

He was obviously taken aback by my comment and it was blatantly obvious I had horribly offended him. ??????????

He set his jaw, narrowed his eyes and said emphatically "If that feller at the factory can shoot that good without a scope I CAN TOO!"

He bought the rifle and left. It was drilled and tapped for scope mounts, had no iron sights on it.

[hunter63]

I hear ya, great story.
My Weatherby Vangard (low end) came with a proof target but was made in Japan...the signature was in Japanese as well...But the holes don't lie

[TresMon]

My montra in my long range classes is:
"The bullet never lies"

[lucznik]

That's just plain awesome Tres...


You know what they say, "never let reality interfere with your expectations."

[hunter63]

My favorite line is....."Bore sighting?...What do you mean, bore sighting...?"

[kyratshooter]

The bullets lieing is not the problem, it is the goofballs shooting them.

Would you believe a 5 shot group with all holes touching at 100 yards. !!!And 15 fliers!!!

[LowKey]

Would you believe 10 shots at a rack of 6" metal plate targets at 15 yards with NO hits? All four adults in that group took a turn with that 9mm and only one got a single hit. 40 shots and 1 hit.

There are some people, I just see them, I leave.

Though I think it's fun to shoot trap with a pump action shotgun. Horrifies the purists. LOL. But they still let me play so that's saying something I guess.

[TresMon]

Yep- Fly fishers and trap shooters can be the high society type. I have mingled in their ranks a lot, though i'm but a poor commoner. What can they say if you give them a stiff run for their monies??

[lucznik]

Would you believe 10 shots at a rack of 6" metal plate targets at 15 yards with NO hits? All four adults in that group took a turn with that 9mm and only one got a single hit. 40 shots and 1 hit.

Sadly, I can believe that... easily. I know way too many people for whom shooting is an excercise in making nothing but noise. Hits are not even part of the equation.

My younger brother would be one of those people. He'll load up his AK, his .40 S&W, or his 10-22 and run through magazine after magazine as fast as he can pull the trigger. No hits on anything but dirt - and even that is over a remarkably wide pattern.

[JPGreco]

Hmm, I'm apprehensive about my shooting story then. I went 5/5 at a trap range at scout camp the first time I fired a shotgun. I really wasn't sure what happened. I shot, hit, reloaded, and repeated. Then the guy working there and supervising the shooters told me I hit them all. I had no idea. Technically, I did better at that than I did on the .22s. Went 4/5 the following summer. 9/10 in my career and its all dumb luck.

I would love to go shooting sometime, never fired a hand gun.

[kyratshooter]

Would you believe 10 shots at a rack of 6" metal plate targets at 15 yards with NO hits? All four adults in that group took a turn with that 9mm and only one got a single hit. 40 shots and 1 hit.

There are some people, I just see them, I leave.

Though I think it's fun to shoot trap with a pump action shotgun. Horrifies the purists. LOL. But they still let me play so that's saying something I guess.

Were those guys, by any chance, Cincinnati Police officers?

The LE in the area just north of me are notorious for throwing 30-50 shots at a suspect and hitting nothing but innocent cars in the parking lot. The gansters seem able to hit 3 out of 3 with a Highpoint or Larson.

Majority of the folk shooting trap at our field are shooting pumps and simiautos. Only discrimination I see is toward the Maverick and Partner pumps and other low end guns. You run into that everywhere.

[natertot]

The LE in the area just north of me are notorious for throwing 30-50 shots at a suspect and hitting nothing but innocent cars in the parking lot. The gansters seem able to hit 3 out of 3 with a Highpoint or Larson.


I work side by side with the LE you refer too. I could tell you some stories, but then you'd think I'm full of the brown stuff. My favorite one is the stolen car that was given to the theif, along with the owners purse! Anywhooooo.

[TresMon]

I work side by side with the LE you refer too. I could tell you some stories, but then you'd think I'm full of the brown stuff. My favorite one is the stolen car that was given to the theif, along with the owners purse! Anywhooooo.

Oh no! That's so bad, but I had to LOL. I got a cop bud. Been on the force for 15 years. Now he's a big time shooter- he goes on all the time about how bad cops shoot.

[kyratshooter]

Once many years ago I was out one sunday afternoon shooting at the local quarry. It was not much but it was all we had for a range. About 200 yards wide and almost as deep, the water in the bottom was filled with floating car tires. The most popular plinking sport was puting big bore pistol rounds inside the tire diameter and watching the water splash. smaller diameter tires got you more rep than the big tires.

A teacher I worked with and I were plopping cast lead .45acp rounds inside the 12-15 inch circles with a regularity that would have seemed boring to completely sane people when a couple of uniformed patrol officers stopped by to watch, not shoot. After 5 minutes of watching they asked us what police department we worked for?

"No department! We teach at the local University" my friend replied.

!!!SOAB, I'm glad you arn't crooks!!! Was the only comment we heard as they returned to their car.

We used to love having cops show up at our IPSC matches back in the '80s. We never had one return for a second match, except for Rick Castilo, who was an IRS field investigator. He made #2 world champion one year. We had three people at the club that could beat him any day it wasn't raining. Of course we did not shoot when it was raining.

[TheWaywardOne]

Though I think it's fun to shoot trap with a pump action shotgun. Horrifies the purists. LOL. But they still let me play so that's saying something I guess.

Ha, been there. Had a buddy that was on the US shooting team and he took me out to the bunker one day. I showed up with an 870 and they almost laughed me out of the club house. Held my own just fine.

[hunter63]

If you really want to set'em off, show up with a open hammer SXS muzzle-loader, and start dumping stuff down the bore....and watch them choke on the smoke....

[kyratshooter]

If you really want to set'em off, show up with a open hammer SXS muzzle-loader, and start dumping stuff down the bore....and watch them choke on the smoke....

They do that over at Friendship for the national BP shoots. Reloading is so slow it takes about half a day to shoot one round.

[LowKey]

Most of these guys have OU Brownings or Bernellis. The pump I have is a Browning so that is probably why they let me play.

During some course or other I took, the instructor was talking about Glocks. Police officers here in MA can buy them but the lowly commoner can't. Anyway, the instructor is showing us a field strip on a Glock and after he checks the chamber, pulls the trigger required to open up the gun. Turns to a LEO in the class and asks him how many holes are in the squad room floor. The guy turned red and said "a few too many". Scary.
Still I wouldn't trade jobs with a police officer even on a good day. Pretty thankless job sometimes.

[TresMon]

Oh yeah. For sure. While cops in general "can't shoot" I don't dog them. I have utmost appreciation for them and what they do. I was my cop buds room mate for a few years. I saw him come home with the bruises, bloody nose, scrapes, bruises and burn out. I also saw the pay check he came home with. I salute cops.

[Rick]

I think, as a society, we have our priorities grossly misplaced. Those we rely on most we pay the least. Military, first responders and teachers are terribly underpaid for what we ask them to do. And then there are lawyers and politicians (shaking head). I wonder how much you'd be willing to pay a police officer if a bad guy were breaking in your home or an EMT if you were having a heart attack?

[LowKey]

That's what I don't understand about towns in fiscal crisis. First thing to be cut is fire and police services. They really should start elsewhere. They still keep tying the police upgrades (new cruisers and computer hardware) to some very unsavory low income housing requirements approvals during town voting. The low income housing articles don't pass so neither does the new equipment. It's backfired on the selectmen for 3 years now. It's finally been noticed by the voters too.

[natertot]

That's what I don't understand about towns in fiscal crisis. First thing to be cut is fire and police services. They really should start elsewhere. They still keep tying the police upgrades (new cruisers and computer hardware) to some very unsavory low income housing requirements approvals during town voting. The low income housing articles don't pass so neither does the new equipment. It's backfired on the selectmen for 3 years now. It's finally been noticed by the voters too.

Politics, my friend. People want police and fire so they will tie other things to it in hopes of getting what they want. It they don't get what they want, then the people don't get what they want. More reason to hate politians!

[glockcop]

The story goes something like this: There was a guy at the range who could not get his weapon to chamber a round. After struggling through a clearing drill to no avail, the Range Master approaches him to check his weapon and discoveres every bullet loaded backward in the mag. The Range Master asked why he loaded his mag that way. The genius respondes, "Because the bullets go into the mag alot easier that way, Duh!". The "Duh!" part just says it all.

[kyratshooter]

Went to the range the other night to find a poor soul shooting and searching for his hits with binoculars.

I ask what he is doing.

He replies that he is trying to see where his gun is shooting and after a full box of shells can not find a hole in the target. Worthless gun!

Did I mention he was on the 100 yard range.......with a .410 shotgun and #6 shot!

[crashdive123]

You should have offered him $20 for the shotgun.

[hunter63]

You should have offered him $20 for the shotgun.
Yeah...No shut, got a Mossberg Model 500 that way, ribbing on the barrel was loose....and after listening to 30 min of cussing and bad language, offered the guy $100 bucks for it....He handed it to me.... went back got the case and shooting box and walked off.....

Tightened up the set screw, then punched it so it wouldn't move.
Added a 18-1/2' Breach-er barrel for it, at the time was like $79 bucks.....still would have it except for that dern canoe......

[Rick]

See there? I'm not the only one. There should be a safety sticker of some sort on those canoes. "Warning! Firearms are likely to be lost if placed inside the canoe".

[hunter63]

See there? I'm not the only one. There should be a safety sticker of some sort on those canoes. "Warning! Firearms are likely to be lost if placed inside the canoe".


Yeah, particularly when those snakes drop in with you, those double stack magazines are not always your friend...........

[Rick]

I had a cousin in law (had to spell it out. No would have known what CIL stood for). The seams on his aluminum john boat leaked. He carried a coffee can of tar and gasoline. If a seam starting leaking he'd just work up some tar and shove into the seam where the leak was. There was a lot of tar smeared on the inside of that boat. I didn't fish with him too much. It was a bit counter intuitive to me that aluminum and tar could float. Maybe it was just me.

[hunter63]

LOL, bet it beats silicone, looks like snot!.....

The $50 buck "snot rocket" still leaks, I keep it down by the river, for those "cross the river quick and pick up your deer" trips....silicone hanging all over it, even camo paint didn't help......looks like camo snot.
Keep hoping it will get "stolt"....so I can tell my insurance guy that the Bayliner got carried away by the flood.......No luck,.... people keep bring it back.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Went to the range the other night to find a poor soul shooting and searching for his hits with binoculars.

I ask what he is doing.

He replies that he is trying to see where his gun is shooting and after a full box of shells can not find a hole in the target. Worthless gun!

Did I mention he was on the 100 yard range.......with a .410 shotgun and #6 shot!

Then there is the range officer....(shotguns are not allowed at the range) But, Mr Range Officer this a slug barrel I intend to shoot .50 cal sabot slugs at 100 yds. " We are not equipped for shotguns, no shotguns"

[hunter63]

No range officer at the club I just joined.....just a range, that you can use any time you want.....free ear protection, $7 bucks a year.

[kyratshooter]

No range officer at our range either. I have access to the club range and the public range.

One state WMA officer in charge of three local areas totaling 5,000 acres.

All the range effort is volunteer. We clean it, maintain it, protect it as best we can. Most of the people are relitively safe, just dumb as a post.

[Rick]

No RSO at mine either. Just a sign that says, "We are not your mother. Pick up your own crap."

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Well yeah ! That was twenty years ago....Cowboy has his own range! The horses get a little excited. I guess I am the range officer now.

[hunter63]

I do have a 100 yd range down by the shed.....but drives the dog nuts to hear the shooting and not see wahts going on, so I only use it if they aren't there.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0712.jpg

Or if I am just trying to see if something shoots or not.

[kyratshooter]

I built a small bore range in the back yard a couple of weeks ago. I have been meaning to post pics. It turned out pretty well and stops .22/9mm/38spl lead bullets with no problem. 1/4" plate as a backstop. I can't get but about 25 yards usable range out of my setup. I mostly built it to practice with the .22 pistol for our steel shoots and metalic silhouette matches.

I am the only idiot I need to worry about at that range.

[Rick]

I worked with a guy that build a .22 range inside his house. He used phone books as a backstop. It doesn't all have to be at the range. Stupid is as stupid does.

[Batch]

I am an NRA cert. RSO and the two things I see and stop the most are people who want to flip the muzzle on their handgun to look at the safety or when they have a malfunction. So as they look at the left side of the gun they point the muzzle left. When they look at the right side they point the barrel right. The other one is when people start talking with someone else about a gun when the range is cold. You see them walk closer to the gun. I warn them in advance not to touch the gun and they always say they weren't going to. But, I have seen to many people forget not to touch them.

Also, the RSO is there to enforce range rules in the SOP manual. If it says no shotguns. That means no shotguns. That includes shotguns with a slug barrel. If it didn't then it should say so in the SOP. If I shot at that range and wanted to shoot a shotgun with a slug barrel. I would speak to the CRSO about changing that rule in the SOP. Our CRSO changes stuff on a whim. But, she owns the range.

You can shoot any fire arm you want at out range. Targets have to not be a threat to the mower and be at a safe distance to reduce the threat of ricochet.

Here is a metal shoot they had a couple of weeks ago that someone posted a video. The weather was bad that day and so I didn't go.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSbdg-dbIMI

[kyratshooter]

Your range obviously has a person in charge, who is there and has the ability to evict evil doers and stupid people!

I also am a certified range safty officer. That and a dollar will buy me a cup of coffee at Micky Dees' on the way home from the public range.

Around here telling someone what they can do at the range, what they can shoot or how they can shoot, if you are not wearing an LEO uniform, will get you an invitation to get in your vehicle and find another place to be.

No one seems to be impressed with my importance!

But that situation insures I have an unending list of stupid things I have seen at the range.

I am one of the five people in my county that really knows how the holes got in the range roof! Were you aware that a Kimber trigger could be adjusted down until it will not hold the sear as the bolt is closed?

[MichMetal]

I think cops have far too much power, which at least a decent number of them abuse. They also get payed pretty good, every single episode i've seen on the tv show cops(and i've seen a lot) they start off talking about how much they love their job etc..."Police officers in the United States earn an average annual salary of $51410" that's a nice chunk of change. Over $4k a month...so I don't feel bad for them at all.

What I don't understand is the concept that a guy who just got out of highschool, can take police training a few weeks/months, given a badge and a gun and from then on he has the power to ruin peoples day and lives, and they have to follow all his barking and even if he does something wrong there's little chance you'll be reimbursed, unless you have proof(which is why so many cops are against you filming them, think about *that* if they had nothing to hide as public servants they wouldn't be arresting people for it)

There are 32,700,000 results on google for "police brutality" and most don't realize this but a cop can arrest you, and hold you in jail for 48 hours without even charging you with anything...supreme court also ruled recently that cops can strip search anyone they arrest in jails, regardless if its for a parking ticket or whatever else...they have WAY too much power and they're the primary reason marijuana isn't legalized. They fight it tooth and jail every time a bill regarding it comes up, because if they can't bust those dangerous college kids consuming marijuana to meet their monthly quota(And you better believe cops have quotas) then what? It's job security for them, and there have been many police precincts, the entire things, shut down for corruption.............

I can tell you ridiculous story after story of cops killing etc.. that I read and the DA completely ignoring it. In fact one that comes to mind is a cop shows up to her ex wifes house, while off duty, shoots her boyfriend something like 24 times(and idk about you but i never heard of a 24 round clip so he clearly had to reload), claims self defense, and the DA found the cop innocent...so this same guy goes transfers beats the snot out of some kid for not tucking in his shirt(it was filmed on camera), and then eventually he ended up raping some woman...when he finally went to trial for the latter the video of the kid thing surfaced. So you see, these kind of stories are common, DA don't seem to do anything when it comes to police, they get a free pass way too much.

The only way to fix this is federally and state wise make it written clearly and without confusion that people ARE allowed to film cops in public, since apparently constitution isn't good enough for them to stop arresting people over it. I also think cops should have camera and mics on them at all times to monitor what they're doing, for the peoples safety first and foremost and theres after. Imagine if no one filmed the Rodney king beatings...

Also keep this in mind, a cop and retired cop can carry a concealed weapon just about anywhere in the US regardless of state regulations. I can find the reference for anything i've claimed if someone needs it.

[crashdive123]

I think cops have far too much power, which at least a decent number of them abuse. They also get payed pretty good, every single episode i've seen on the tv show cops(and i've seen a lot) they start off talking about how much they love their job etc..."Police officers in the United States earn an average annual salary of $51410" that's a nice chunk of change. Over $4k a month...so I don't feel bad for them at all.

What I don't understand is the concept that a guy who just got out of highschool, can take police training a few weeks/months, given a badge and a gun and from then on he has the power to ruin peoples day and lives, and they have to follow all his barking and even if he does something wrong there's little chance you'll be reimbursed, unless you have proof(which is why so many cops are against you filming them, think about *that* if they had nothing to hide as public servants they wouldn't be arresting people for it)

There are 32,700,000 results on google for "police brutality" and most don't realize this but a cop can arrest you, and hold you in jail for 48 hours without even charging you with anything...supreme court also ruled recently that cops can strip search anyone they arrest in jails, regardless if its for a parking ticket or whatever else...they have WAY too much power and they're the primary reason marijuana isn't legalized. They fight it tooth and jail every time a bill regarding it comes up, because if they can't bust those dangerous college kids consuming marijuana to meet their monthly quota(And you better believe cops have quotas) then what? It's job security for them, and there have been many police precincts, the entire things, shut down for corruption.............

I can tell you ridiculous story after story of cops killing etc.. that I read and the DA completely ignoring it. In fact one that comes to mind is a cop shows up to her ex wifes house, while off duty, shoots her boyfriend something like 24 times(and idk about you but i never heard of a 24 round clip so he clearly had to reload), claims self defense, and the DA found the cop innocent...so this same guy goes transfers beats the snot out of some kid for not tucking in his shirt(it was filmed on camera), and then eventually he ended up raping some woman...when he finally went to trial for the latter the video of the kid thing surfaced. So you see, these kind of stories are common, DA don't seem to do anything when it comes to police, they get a free pass way too much.

The only way to fix this is federally and state wise make it written clearly and without confusion that people ARE allowed to film cops in public, since apparently constitution isn't good enough for them to stop arresting people over it. I also think cops should have camera and mics on them at all times to monitor what they're doing, for the peoples safety first and foremost and theres after. Imagine if no one filmed the Rodney king beatings...

Also keep this in mind, a cop and retired cop can carry a concealed weapon just about anywhere in the US regardless of state regulations. I can find the reference for anything i've claimed if someone needs it.

I know that you are young, so your perspective and mine may be a little different. Here are a few points that I'd like to make regarding your comments.

1. Sometimes people abuse positions of authority. Being in law enforcement is no exception, but I would venture a guess that the instances of it occurring there are lower than in many other professions.

2. The pay received isn't bad in some departments and less than stellar in others, but if you were to include the following in their job description it might seem like it is not nearly enough. (intentionally place yourself in harms way every day.........deal with people that would rather hurt you than talk to you every day.......never walk away from a fight, but rather put yourself in the middle of every one you see.......get called a killer after a drug related shooting in a bad neighborhood, but receive no help from the residents that witnessed it all......and on, and on)

3. Not sure about the just out of high school comment - here you need a college degree, the police academy training can be rather intense.

4. The number of returns on Google may not be a good indicator of reality. Google shows about the some number of hits for "dog bites man" as it does for "man bites dog". Does that mean there are just as many people biting dogs as there are dogs biting people?

5. Strip search before you are placed in a jail cell? Thank goodness. While not really pleasant to talk about - people do "hide" things on and in their person.

6. Police arrest people. Prosecutors charge people. Courts try people. Juries decide the innocence or guilt of people based on the evidence.

[Rick]

That $51k gets to pay for uniforms, bullet proof vests, firearms, belt, flashlight, boots and any other gear an LEO wishes to carry in many departments. Some may receive a clothing allowance and some may be issued firearms but most get to fund it themselves. The vest alone can be several hundred dollars and has a relatively short life span then it has to be replaced.

Personally, I think LEO are underpaid. For that money I get to go to sleep at night knowing they are patrolling my neighborhood, taking down bad guys, arresting drunk drivers and generally being verbally and physically abused by those they have to deal with.

When I graduated high school the Ford dealer in my hometown happened to be on the State Police Board so I stopped by and talked to him. Yes, he could get me on provided I passed the academy. I'd have to serve a year on the Chicago toll roads then he could get me transferred if I wanted. He handed me an application and I went home. After thinking about it for a while I decided being shot at for $21,000 (the starting salary at the time) just wasn't worth it.

May I suggest you stop by your local police department and ask them if you can ride along with them for a couple of nights? You will learn first hand what they have to deal with and might have a different perspective when done. Right now, all you know is what you've read, which may or may not be true.

[hunter63]

I think cops have far too much power, which at least a decent number of them abuse. They also get payed pretty good, every single episode i've seen on the tv show cops(and i've seen a lot) they start off talking about how much they love their job etc..."Police officers in the United States earn an average annual salary of $51410" that's a nice chunk of change. Over $4k a month...so I don't feel bad for them at all.

What I don't understand is the concept that a guy who just got out of highschool, can take police training a few weeks/months, given a badge and a gun and from then on he has the power to ruin peoples day and lives, and they have to follow all his barking and even if he does something wrong there's little chance you'll be reimbursed, unless you have proof(which is why so many cops are against you filming them, think about *that* if they had nothing to hide as public servants they wouldn't be arresting people for it)

There are 32,700,000 results on google for "police brutality" and most don't realize this but a cop can arrest you, and hold you in jail for 48 hours without even charging you with anything...supreme court also ruled recently that cops can strip search anyone they arrest in jails, regardless if its for a parking ticket or whatever else...they have WAY too much power and they're the primary reason marijuana isn't legalized. They fight it tooth and jail every time a bill regarding it comes up, because if they can't bust those dangerous college kids consuming marijuana to meet their monthly quota(And you better believe cops have quotas) then what? It's job security for them, and there have been many police precincts, the entire things, shut down for corruption.............

I can tell you ridiculous story after story of cops killing etc.. that I read and the DA completely ignoring it. In fact one that comes to mind is a cop shows up to her ex wifes house, while off duty, shoots her boyfriend something like 24 times(and idk about you but i never heard of a 24 round clip so he clearly had to reload), claims self defense, and the DA found the cop innocent...so this same guy goes transfers beats the snot out of some kid for not tucking in his shirt(it was filmed on camera), and then eventually he ended up raping some woman...when he finally went to trial for the latter the video of the kid thing surfaced. So you see, these kind of stories are common, DA don't seem to do anything when it comes to police, they get a free pass way too much.

The only way to fix this is federally and state wise make it written clearly and without confusion that people ARE allowed to film cops in public, since apparently constitution isn't good enough for them to stop arresting people over it. I also think cops should have camera and mics on them at all times to monitor what they're doing, for the peoples safety first and foremost and theres after. Imagine if no one filmed the Rodney king beatings...

Also keep this in mind, a cop and retired cop can carry a concealed weapon just about anywhere in the US regardless of state regulations. I can find the reference for anything i've claimed if someone needs it.

You really need to get out more........If your references are Google and watching cops show on TV, and come to the conclusions you have just posted....is really a scary thought.
Sadly I sure you are not alone...that's even scarier.
Why don't you print out that last post, put it some where, then take it out 10 years from now and read it.....and see if you still agree.
Just a suggestion.

[MichMetal]

You really need to get out more........If your references are Google and watching cops show on TV, and come to the conclusions you have just posted....is really a scary thought.
Sadly I sure you are not alone...that's even scarier.
Why don't you print out that last post, put it some where, then take it out 10 years from now and read it.....and see if you still agree.
Just a suggestion.

I've dealt with cops, some friendly, some not. The reality is they have too much power, you guys can argue their job is dangerous etc...but that's what they sign up for. Usually it's the unarmed person they're tazing, beating, shooting at, I feel bad for, not the cops...They typically get to break the speed limits, get free food and other things from businesses, walk around with a gun and every right, where as the general public have none. In court it'd be your word against theirs, and that's not at all fair. In the tv show cops they try and play the buddy angle constantly so that the poor sick drug addicts(as drug addiction is a sickness) can tell them things and the cops can charge them with everything they can think of...felonies included. Why do they do that? because they know most of it won't stick in court, and they're trying to meet their quota.

I see one episode where cops, who were very proud of themselves, decided to put a $4000 Mercedes bicycle out near a store and catch anyone who tried to steal it. Why so much? So they can charge them with a felony............................you cheer and respect that? I do NOT.

You guys can insult me all you like, claim i'm younger therefore I don't know what i'm talking about, but while I like you, would love to think all cops are fair, reasonable, hard working men just trying to do their job, that's not the case and I hope for all of your sakes you don't have to run into the cops that are beating people and arresting them for little to no reason. There's a good number that are ego maniacs that are desperate to have you bow and cater to their power trip non-sense, and if you don't? Watch out. As I said before entire presincts have been shutdown for corruption, that's the entire thing...not just a few cops, all of them...justify that please. Too many people have been killed by cops with no recourse, too many people have been violated and their lives ruins by cops with no recourse. There's a reason they're SO against you filming then, because then it exposes their abuse, flat out. And sadly it's the only weapon the people have.

Granted there are decent cops out there, but the reality is, even for them, they have too much power, and the only way to fix this is again have them recorded at all times.

BTW when I went to college for a bit for criminal justice(same courses cops take) college = state cops, and highschool = regular cops.

[kyratshooter]

M&M you need to get a grip and get in touch with some reality.

No one here said there were no bad cops.

But your points are mostly without merit. If someone steals a bike they have stolen a bike. Retail cost of the bike is of no reguard. They stole the bike, or car or tiller or anything else they can get their hands on.

As far as recording their every move???? Ever hear of a cruiser-cam? Almost all of the patrol vehicles are equipped with them now as a method of protecting the cops from unmerited abuse accusations.

The police in most urban areas are now required to have college drgrees for employment. Within six months of being hired they must go to the state training academy and pass the course for retention. It is not an easy course of study and it is the same for every officer in the state. This is the law in most states because it is tied to their federal funding.

Abuse of power can be an issue, but it is not a universal problem. I was a teacher for 35 years. There are teachers that abuse their authority, but not all of them do, and you can sue their socks off if they do, just like you can a cop.

In my area cops start off at just a hair over $20,000 per year, and we are cutting positions due to budget constraints. You think the uniformed guys are a problem? Wait till you have to deal with a possie of volunteers equipped with pitchforks, torches and an old rope!

[MichMetal]

The police in most urban areas are now required to have college drgrees for employment. Within six months of being hired they must go to the state training academy and pass the course for retention.

Citation? And get in touch with reality? Ok let's do that

http://www.policebrutality.info/content/uploads/2011/04/police-brutality-infographic.jpg

Any questions?

[Rick]

Yes. I have a lot of questions. Do you know who injusticeeverywhere.com is? Are they a reliable source of information? Do they have an underlying agenda? Are there other sources for the same data and do the numbers match? How many arrests are made each day nationwide and what percentage do the numbers above represent. How is the information gathered and what is the criteria for determining "misconduct". Simply siting some random numbers from an obscure website offers nothing of substance. My suggestion still stands. See if you can do a ride along. You are trying to support a position you have no actual first hand knowledge of, which means you really know nothing about the subject.

[natertot]

MM

1: Do a ride along, it will open your eyes.
2: People make mistakes, no one is perfect. Cops are people, too. Do the math.
3: Most aren't "right out of high school" since you have to be 21 to be a cop.
4: If you are just out of high school at 21, you probably wouldn't make it through the academy.
5: I know that poster is bogus just by the taser stats. No one has died because of being tased. They have died becaused of a pre-existing condition or other injuries.
6:50k a year might be average salery, but you have to look at cost of living where alot of them are. I know Police Cheifs that make less than half that.
7: In regards to your bike sting, I hate theifs. If someone is dumb enough to steel a 4k dollar bike regardless of who leaves it there, they are dumb enough to be charged with a felony.

[Rick]

And you do know that Cops, which you are basing your argument on, is edited for television entertainment right? They put the show together to attract viewers, which sells advertising space, which is what they are really trying to attain....money. How entertaining is it to watch 30 minutes of a show where cops unlock car doors or try to explain to some old lady that they aren't a taxi service? Wouldn't last very long would it? But an old fashioned beat down will keep you entertained. Kind of sad statement on the intelligence of viewers, really. Not much different that the Roman Colosseum. Toss in a lion or two...now that's entertainment!

[natertot]

+1 Rick! I work security along with police in a very sketchy part of town. I probably have 30-50 little things per a major thing. What is really hard is unlocking someones car, then dealing with a violent person, then turn around and be compassionate to a lady who was beat by her boyfriend. It is very difficult changing your emotions on a dime.

[Wildthang]

Well I'll tell you that if I was a cop, not making squat for a living, and putting up with all the scumbags of society, I would eventually get tired of dealing with those people, and would probably get pretty rough with them. I would think that dealing with low lifes year after year would tend to make you a heartless SOB. I know it would for me!
So you have to look at the good they do, to be able to understand the bad! I would hate to live in a society that had no law enforcement!

[hunter63]

You really need to get out more........If your references are Google and watching cops show on TV, and come to the conclusions you have just posted....is really a scary thought.
Sadly I sure you are not alone...that's even scarier.
Why don't you print out that last post, put it some where, then take it out 10 years from now and read it.....and see if you still agree.
Just a suggestion.

You appear to a a man with a mission, so I gonna repeat this post......
Over and out.

[MichMetal]

Well I'll tell you that if I was a cop, not making squat for a living, and putting up with all the scumbags of society, I would eventually get tired of dealing with those people, and would probably get pretty rough with them. I would think that dealing with low lifes year after year would tend to make you a heartless SOB. I know it would for me!
So you have to look at the good they do, to be able to understand the bad! I would hate to live in a society that had no law enforcement!

No offense but that's really why you shouldn't be a cop, nor why cops should have the power they have. They should NOT be able to get rough with someone because they're tired of their job...that's disgusting and unacceptable, because if someone where to try and defend themselves that's a felony. BTW these "low lifes" you're speaking of, everyone has ups and downs in their lives, but at the end of day we're all people, no better or worse than another.

To those trying to ignore the stats and claim the tv show cops is edited unfairly, are you kidding me? The shows been on like 20+ years and cops wouldn't stand for that. In fact There was a story recently where a guy who had a helment cam got pulled over by a cop while riding his motorcycle, cop with gun drawn, in regular cloths who took his sweet time even telling the guy he was a cop. few days later he decided to upload the video to youtube, and guess what that cop did? He came to this guys house, arrested him, confiscated his computers and the guys charged with a felony. Here's the article for any who care

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/19/motorcyclist-arrested-for-recording-cop-brandishing-gun-with-hel/

There are tons of stories similar to this, cops are absolutely out of control, and IDC if in your guys lil bubble the local sheriff is a good guy, i'm happy for you, but it's a big nation, and more and more of these stories are popping up. You guys can defend cops all you want, and ignore all the people getting abusedby them, that's entirely your choice, but that doesn't change reality, or fix anything. If you're fine with the thought that your mom, wife, grandma, kids, cousins, etc...can be roughed up by a cop or have their life turned upside down because the cops having a bad day, or because they have a "tough job" you go ahead, I am not. With great power comes great responsibility, and car cams are not enough they need to have cameras on their person at ALL times, for citizens protection first and foremost and theirs afterwards.

I think really though, people continue to ignore the abuse for whatever reason so the state and gov continue to make it worse. Flown recently? Hope you enjoy getting groped and violated by TSA agents...they have a "stressful job" you see, so that's OK right? Don't worry TSA coming to a town near you in bus and train stations soon too. Oh and it doesn't end there, by 2015 I believe ALL new cars will have blackboxes in them, so the gov can monitor where you're going, remember it's for your "security", and they have a "stressful job", so it's justified.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/19/black-boxes-for-cars/

Land of the free, unless the powers that be have stressful jobs, then they can abuse everyone at all, cause that makes sense? Whatever no point continuing this, you guys are clearly bias and want to focus on just your bubbles, and defend non-sense.

[crashdive123]

Whatever no point continuing this, ...............

This I actually agree with. Before it gets out of hand I think it is time to close this thread. Please.......do not let any hard feelings caused here spill out into other threads. Thank you.

[Rick]

I got groped by TSA once. Best 27 seconds I'd had in a long time. I gave the guy my phone number. Just sayin'.....

I'd like to see a cop throw mom to the ground. She was the body slam champion 4 years running. Even at 80 she could whip a 75 year old any day of the week. When I was a kid I used to practice my baseball swing by smacking her in the stomach with my Louisville slugger. She was tough.

[Rick]

When one person tells you that you are wrong, don't worry about it. When two people tell you that you are wrong you might want to rethink your position. When everyone tells you that you are wrong maybe you are actually wrong.