Can't decide

[Kemperor]

M1 Garand or Bushmaster Carbon 15 9mm Carbine?

[Rick]

For what purpose?

[Kemperor]

Home defense and target shooting/practice.

[Assassin Pilot]

knowing for what is always a good thing

[Kemperor]

Or if TSHTF anarchy style. Unlikely, but still good to be prepared. I'm not worried about fully automatic capability, that's usually a waste of ammo.

[Assassin Pilot]

Semi auto is always good though. Or a burst option, that makes sure the target is dead.

[Kemperor]

Good marksmanship ensures a dead target.

[crashdive123]

The Bushmaster is 5.7 lbs, the M-1 about 9.5. M-1 is alot longer, but can "reach out" better than the 9mm. Ammo is alot heavier for the M-1. I'm not a huge fan of 9mm rifles, but they do have their purpose.

[Kemperor]

How do they compare in accuracy? I can most likely manage the weight if the M1 is more accurate. By "reach out," I assume you mean that it is more accurate a longer distances.

[crashdive123]

Don't know about the bushmaster. M-1 is effective to about 500 yards, but I've heard stories of alot further accuracy.

[Kemperor]

Hmm. I'll do a little research and look at some reviews on the Bushmaster. I've also discovered that I have to have a FFL to buy the Bushmaster, so I'll probably go with the M1. Or get a FFL. Not too hard to do in Indiana.

[Rick]

Neither one would mark a good home defense weapon, IMHO. They are not designed for close quarter combat.

800+ yards on the Garand with armor piercing.

[crashdive123]

I agree with Rick on that. 12 gauge, hand gun are great for home defense. Type of ammo is important too. You don't want to hit unitended targets through the walls. And ... kind of goes without saying ... training and practice.

[crashdive123]

You may also want to consider the Phase Plasma Rifle in the 40 Watt Range (he says with an Austrian accent) :D

[Kemperor]

What would you use Rick? Hand gun? I've been looking at obtaining one of these in the next year or two.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=49906&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15707&isFirearm=Y
or this
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=53927&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15706&isFirearm=Y

I'm still looking for a rifle, as they're not always right up on you when you notice them, or sometimes you may even already know that they're coming. Plus, I wouldn't mind bringing a rifle to the ol' fallback area.

[Kemperor]

Oh, everything I have, I will train and practice with until mastery. I learned that lesson after my machete incident.

[FVR]

Personally, I would not use either for home defense. The M1 Garand in 3006 will go through, oh about three walls before it stops. Gungho shooters have shot their own family in a few cases.

The 9mm, gonna leave bullets all over the place. Maybe in combat, maybe if you decide to live in a hostile area.

Handguns are nice, but you have the kiddy safety factor to take into consideration.

Then there is the good old 12 guage shotgun. You can use slugs for large game and targets, buckshot for woods protection, birdshot for little critters and I'd go with a number 4 shot for home protection.

Whoeve you shoot, if you don't kill them first thing, they'll die on the table. That's alot of pellets to be getting out.

Well, that's if they make it past the dogs.

But then, M1 Garand is on my wish list. Oneday.

[Rick]

I posted this on another thread:

Well......for home defense:

The Lupara is a short barreled side by side (SXS), 12 or 16 ga, and usually open choked. Most are hammer guns. You will have to look long and hard to find a true Lupara not equipped with a sling. The term Lupara is Italian and literally means "wolf shot" and it has been used in Sicily for generations to protect flocks of sheep. You might also remember them as the instrument of choice in the movie The Godfather. We are not talking about the construction of an illegal weapon. A Lupara can be made to conform to ATF guidelines and current laws regarding barrel and overall length.

You will be hard pressed, however, to find a better home defense weapon than the Lupara. It is light, manueverable and if the sound of two rounds of buckshot passing by an intruder doesn't intimidate him, a SXS can be reloaded very quickly.

[BraggSurvivor]

I totally agree with you FVR, the good old 12 gauge is the way to go.....especially if you not that great of a shot under pressure. I have a Benelli Supernova that will look after all my needs.I even took it pheasant hunting last fall.

As a rifle i opted for a Remingtom 750 Woodmaster. It's light, semi-auto and can take down any animal that Canada has to offer.

[FVR]

Howdah........................

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/PK0954.jpg


Make sure you use both hands.

Howdah you shoot that thang?

[Rick]

Exactly! That's a lupara, sort of. But the right design. That little guy can make them duck for cover. Only difference is I can reload a bit quicker.:rolleyes:

[trax]

A 12 guage is an excellent home defense weapon and hunting tool. Here's the neat thing about a 12 guage too, if you have more than one home invader in some God-forsaken anarchic shtf scenario, I bet you don't have to shoot more than one. Even before they see their partner go down, the noise that puppy makes is going to send them running. Actually, that's why I like pump actions, even the noise of the cha-chuck when you lock in a round gets folks a little quivery in the britches. There's plenty of reasonably priced good quality shotguns out there Kemp.

[Rick]

For a big brawny guy, yeah. But what about the little Mrs.? Not as easy for her to swing that 12 guage hither and yon not to mention the issue of recoil (okay, you can control some of that with the load). Guys always seem to think cannons but think about slinging a 26" or 28" barrel down the hallway, when you've just been roused from a solid sleep, in the dark, and maneuvering around the entertainment center. Now think about the Mrs. doing it when you're gone.

A smaller version of the same would be just as easy to handle as a hand gun and still pack the whollop of a shotgun.

I do agree, Remy. It takes more than one tool to make a toolbox.

[crashdive123]

So many weapons, so little time. As has been previously stated the type of round is an important choice in your home defense weapon. Where the 12 gauge may be a bit cumbersome for a smaller person, that can be rectified with something like glaser safety slugs in different calibers. They do a pretty convincing job in a home CQB situation. Here's a Wiki link on some info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug I would only recommend these at close range (my house is small).

[Kemperor]

A shotgun is in my arsenal/gear inventory list. The list is type of weapon/tool - model owned(If I don't own one it will be left blank, If I don't know the manufacturer then it is automatically determined to be generic by me) - and finally the intended purpose.

The Kemp Arsenal/gear inventory
Shotgun - Home defense/Hunting/Target
Rifle - Long range home defense/target
Handgun - Close quarters home defense/personal carry/target
Machete - Cold Steel Magnum Khukri Model - Survival tool/garden tool/imporvised weapon
Knife - Frost Cutlery ?(has a finger ring/subhilt with G10 scales) Generic Skinner, Generic hunter, generic pocket knives - see machete for intended uses, on a smaller and more delicate scale of uses for the knives.

As of right now, I currently do not own any guns. I was never allowed to own them as a child, nor did my parents own any. I have shot many guns though. The first gun I ever shot was my uncles ten gauge. My best friend has guns, and that's what is used when hunting. It just doesn't feel right, though, when the tool used to get the job done wasn't your own. Springfield Armory, which manufactures M1 Garands, has another rifle, the SOCOM 16. It has a 16.25" barrel, is just over three feet in overall length, weighs just over nine pounds, is scope ready, and might be my rifle of choice. It's modeled after the M1A, just made shorter for the purpose of close quarters combat. Its caliber is 7.62 by 51mm, which is said to be the same as .308 Win. Is that true? Furthermore, I'd like to hear more recommendations as far as shotguns are concerned. I've only shot 10 gauge and 12 gauge.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=22

[NY MtnMan72]

Wow Kemp... so many things too comment on.....

Here are some of my thoughts and opinions about some of the above comments and what your looking for.

#1 FVR and others mentioned regarding "home defense" that you definitely do not want a high-powered rifle (M1 Garand/30.06) or the Bushmaster for this task... in the event you start throwin lead around there is no way to keep safe other people in rooms adjacent, or your neighbors when the bullet exits your house and enters theirs- way too powerful.. My choice for "in home" self defense would be: Handgun- .45 ACP... its powerful, and has a big heavy bullet that A) will take out your intruder with one hit, and B) is alot less likely to penetrate multiple walls. The 12/16/20 gauge shotgun would also be an excellent choice because it has multiple uses besides self defense......
Oh, and if i can get a pistol permit in liberal NY, you can definitely get one in your state...

#2 even though you have shot guns with others over the years, i cant stress enough that you should take a handgun/gun safety course.... for a pistol permit its probably required, and trust me even someone experienced can learn from the instructor if he/she does a good job....

#3 while they are certainly cool (bushmaster, socom etc etc) tactical military rifles may not be your best bet to start out with.....
Nothing to stop you from owning one, and this is again just my opinion, but I just think alot of people buy these type things- because they believe it will give them "some kind of edge" in the event of being attacked.

I own the following firearms... and i reccomend them highly...

Handguns: Detonics 45ACP semi-auto pistol, Ruger .357 mag revolver.

Rifle- WW2 surplus .30 M1 carbine... semi-auto, 15 round magazines... (not a Garand... this is more like a pistol round, and only 110 grain round nose bullets)

Shotgun: 12 gauge pump (mine happens to be an older Ithaca brand)..

You also need to plan very carefully, especially if there are kids around where your going to keep these weapons, also where you can get to them etc.
Worst thing to happen would to be killed by an intruder with your own weapon....

Ok well hope some of this was useful....

Art

[Rick]

Kemporer - Your comment that it just didn't feel right caught my attention. Firearms are a great deal like hiking boots with respect to feel. They have to fit and they have to be comfortable.

Everyone has a different comfort level based on their frame, hand size, arm reach, etc. Before you invest a lot of cash in something you may not like, try it out. Pop Guns in Indy has an indoor range that allows you to use handgun calibers in both handgun and rifle. You can even rent handguns to see how they feel to you when you use them. You might also have a range a little closer to home.

If I remember correctly, you said you were getting ready to start college(?). If that's not right, I'm sorry. You may have to be 21 to use the range but you can talk to them if you are interested.

You can also talk to a local gunsmith and/or reputable gun dealer about what's right for you. They should be happy to work with you and let you try several to see how they fit and feel.

Here's a link to Pop Guns:

http://www.popguns.com/rangedetails.htm


Here's a link to shooting ranges in Indiana:

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/findlocal.asp?State=IN

et. al. - That link will also take you to a national site for shooting ranges. Just click on Find a Local Range in the upper left corner.

There is a lot to choosing the right weapon for YOU but you definitely want one that is comfortable to carry and use, has a record of reliability, will accomplish what you bought it for and is a tool you have some faith in (not over confidence. There's a difference).

Hope that helps.

[crashdive123]

Kemp: Your comments about it not feeling right caught my eye too. Great advice on trying out different guns to make sure that it is the right one for you. I personnaly own over 20 weapons. My wife has taken up shooting recently. We go out just about every week. Whereas I'm very comfortable with each and every one in the gun safe, she is only comfortable with 1 or 2. Because something looks good, and may be a decent weapon it may not be right for you.

[Beo]

Shotgun recommendations...
-12 gauge, pump action.
-Remington 870 or Mossberg 500.

I agree here but would go with 870 (just my choice)
as for long range... the Remington 700 chambered in Winchester .300 magnum is what I have, it has the same amount of muzzle velocity (knock down power) at 1000 yrds. as a 44 magnum at point blank range. I can kill anything on the planet with this puppy. I also have an H&K USP .40 which is a sweet pistol, and my issued S&W .40, the wife likes the 870 and the H&K, I do all long range shooting with the .300 mag. Other than my flinters that covers it in my home. In home defense remember not to go to the intruder but let the intruder come to you and then BLAM! Going to an intruder means they have a better probability of taking the weapon from you and turning it on you. Stats from our department.

[Ole WV Coot]

Try EVERYTHING, if you can't use it don't buy it. I am very comfortable with my Win Defender with 6 or seven in the mag, safety off, nothing in the barrel. Combo is your choice mine is #7 1/2 first 2 then #3 buck handgun Beretta 45 Federal Personal Defense load, one in the tube, safety on. Decent flashlight, cell phone. S&W 38 revolver for the wife, EK edge & 1/2, dog in the basement, motion lights all around, dusk to dawn on outbuilding, no kids or close neighbors, don't need anything except iron sighted 30-30 loaded, safety off none in the tube, mainly for coyotes. I think I am pretty well covered. Still have Black Talons but not in anything now. All others locked in safe.

[Sam]

I use a combination of ambush and a 12 ga. Winchester Mod. 13 pump with #4 shot. No punch thru of walls.
I've had my Winchester so long I trust it to function.

[trax]

I just want to add a couple of thoughts, there have been a lot of solid opinions and advice offered. Number 1, go with what you're comfortable with and then, if you're not trained, get trained and get any other person in your home who might have to use it trained.

Number 2, I agree wholeheartedly with the two shotguns that Remy suggested. Short barreled, easy to swing and very effective, although I'd use bigger shot, nothing smaller than #2. The Mossberg is usually very well priced as well and they have a good reputation. I'm not a Mossberg salesman I'm just saying. Beo's advice about the home invader coming to you versus you trying to seek them out is paramount. Don't buy any weapon to give to someone else to kill you with.

Number 3,in terms of home defense, I'm of a mind that the individual perceives that his/her life is in imminent danger, the threat is immediate and respose is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, there is really no point in having this conversation, I shudder at "gun happy" people and I've used firearms most of my life. Recoil is irrelevant, if the "Mrs." is knocked on her azz by the shotgun's recoil, the bad guy is wall decor. Personally, I have no problem with that. The bonus with the shotguns that Remy suggested is, we're talking...most likely..about very close quarters combat here. You don't have to be a terribly good shot for this to work, point and squeeze the trigger.

[Sourdough]

If I had a women I would put a "Crimson Trace" Laser on her personal firearm, If your in someone Else's house and you are to stupid to know what that red beam means as it races across the floor, up your leg, well you were not a necessary part of the gene pool.

[trax]

If I had a women I would put a "Crimson Trace" Laser on her personal firearm, If your in someone Else's house and you are to stupid to know what that red beam means as it races across the floor, up your leg, well you were not a necessary part of the gene pool.

...and within the next few seconds no longer a contributor to the gene pool and the rest of us should look upon that as a blessing...

[Beo]

I like that Hopeak... real nice.
More than likely I'm at home in the evenings and if someone came in the wife would have the shotgun and wait at the top of the steps, anyone comes around the corner to come up and KABLAM wall pizza, if its me she knows I'll let her know. I would probably go back to sleep and let her handle it... lol... jk I would probably grab my Emersom CQC folder (6 inch blade great knife) and head down to carve someone up, snooping and sneaking through the house. Sounds a little wrong coming from a cop but hey that's just me and then I get to put some skills to the test, plus most people hate and are afraid of being cut long deep and continuously (that spelled right, who cares you get the picture)

[crashdive123]

I'm not a big fan of grabbin a knife and showing up at a gunfight. Nightstand gun is a Ruger GP100 .357 with Glaser Safety Slugs. My daily personal carry is a SW .40. One shotgun in the house (Mossburg 500) and another in a cache in the back inside my workshop (an old Sears & Roebuck bolt action 12 ga. with pistol grip and very short barrel.

[Rick]

(jotting down note)
Avoid red lights at Hopeak's place. Check crashdive's workshop for bolt action.

[Beo]

Sure the house is pitch dark, I sneak down the stairs and slide into the dinning room as the perp known as Johnny Butterbutt is slipping the silver into a bag ever so quietly, insert knife at base of skull and thrust upward while pulling head back by the forehead... go back to stairs and forget to tell wife cause I'm cleaning off my knife and Blam! I'm talking to Saint Peter... oh crap didn't work. I actually wouldn't use a knife, and if my big azz dog ain't barking then i'm going to bottom of steps and light his azz up with my H&K USP .40.

[crashdive123]

Just got this visual --- BLAM!!!! .... Honey? Is that you?

[Rick]

Look, man. The dude was carrying a knife. Did you hear a click? Cool, there's a red dot on you.

[crashdive123]

Here's Beo as he enters his living room, coming up to a Johnny Butterbutt. OMG JB is armed!
http://www.smileyhut.com/fighting/argue.gif (http://www.smileyhut.com)

[Beo]

That is too good... lol... love it.
BUt here's what I say about all these smileys:
http://www.smileyhut.com/weapons/dropcheer.gif (http://www.smileyhut.com)

[Tony uk]

That is too good... lol... love it.
BUt here's what I say about all these smileys:
http://www.smileyhut.com/weapons/dropcheer.gif (http://www.smileyhut.com)

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Die cheerleading scum !

[crashdive123]

Very nice. Hey blame Pee for the smileys. I'm just about illi... ellli...stupid with a computer.

[Kemperor]

This is my reasoning on the rifle. I live in neighborhood that's fairly open and not too packed. Three of the houses around me are abandoned ;) There are a lot of dogs in this neighborhood. Living around the dogs, I've learned to distinguish their barks and howls and what each indicates. So, I'll know if something is awry in the hood. Every house that is inhabited has a gun of some sort, mostly shotguns. If I hear the certain barks, I'll look for where they started set up the rifle, and make sure the neighbors are safe/make sure whoever isn't coming to my property. A laser sight would usually be enough as troublemakers generally break into cars in my area. There isn't too many home invasions. However, it's best to be ready for it anyway, and their are a lot of babies and children in the hood, so I'd be very careful with my shots. Knowing where all the gas lines and water mains run is a good knowledge to have as well. So, if the neighbors can take care of the problems themselves, then they will, but they'll have less to worry about and panic less when they see a red dot on troublemaker. If it's outside, that is. If it's a home invasion, I grew up playing war and tag and hide 'n seek here, so I know every nook and cranny and get to the house being invaded with ease. Considering that the nieghbors have guns and that about 1/3 of the neighbors dogs are pitbulls, I probably wouldn't have to do too much. Just adding more security in the long run. Plus, if TSHTF in my area or on a grand scale, that high powered rifle would come in really handy. If they entered my house, I'd use a handgun or whatever is handy. I know how to move silently through my own house.

As for target practice, I live three or four miles from Camp Atterbury, which is the 2nd main deployment/training center to Iraq in the US, I believe. They have a shooting range open to the public, and that's most likely where I'd go for practice/instruction. As far as shotguns go, I've found that I'm more comfortable shooting a 10 gauge than I am a 12. I like the kick. Gives more respect for what the gun can do. For instance, my friend told me about seeing this kid shoot a 12 gauge on TV and the kick knocked him on his arse. The hosts of the show started yelling like city folk do about how that's irresponsible and the parents should be shot. Then my friend says, "That same thing happened to me when I was a kid. If the kick of the gun knocks you on your @$$, then you'll realize the power coming out of the other end. Getting knocked down like that was one of the greatest lessons I ever learned about the gun. It made me respect that gun. The hosts of that show are who should be shot, or would shoot themselves due to that lack of respect and wisdom." I'm gonna have to say that I agree with him.

[Gray Wolf]

This is my personal favorite, I like to take them out before they cross the state line. :D

The AW Super Magnum is world famous for its accuracy and it's proven durability in combat. Adopted by the British SAS as their primary sniper rifle and many US agencies following suite, this rifle is designed to take anything thrown in its way. The .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge is known for shooting accurately at distances of 1500 yards and beyond.
The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Rifle System is perhaps the world's strongest and most reliable weapon. The machined action is bonded to a full length alloy chassis system for brutal strength in even the harshest environments. Featuring a 2 stage trigger, 3 position safety and proof tested barrel, the AW offers dependable accuracy that professionals can rely on. The AW series features a folding stock, adjustable cheek piece and a buttspike for long observation periods. 5 round magazine.

[chopp29]

Why does it have to be out of those 2 particular rifles? Just curious.....do u like those 2 over all other options? My opionion, out of those 2 for home def go for the 9mm, simply because an M1 is not a very good choice. But also consider the remington 20 are 12 guage model 870 home def shotgun. Cant beat it when your looking for home def. Just a thought.

[RBB]

For home defense - I would recommend a short barrelled slide (pump) action 12 gauge shotgun. Most larger gun shops have a few trade-ins from police departments and you can usually pick them up fairly cheap. They are more reliable than most semi-automatic shotguns (Bennalli excluded - I've heard very good things about the reliability of their semi-autos), and basically idiot proof - especially those with a tang safety.

If you have skill with a handgun - I'd recommend the Glock in .40 or .45 cal - or a revolver in a similar caliber. Again, fairly idiot proof.

For a rifle - for in town use - I'd go with the 9MM rather than the 30-06 M1 Garand. 30-06 could easily end up going somewhere you didn't want it to go. Besides, have you priced them lately?

A good reasonably priced compromise might be the SKS Simonov carbine with the 7.62 X 39 cartridge. I'd use a soft-nose bullet - again to make sure it wasn't going to travel further than I wanted it to - or through more buildings and vehicles than I wanted it to. I would not use an AK-47 as every one I've ever shot was fairly inaccurate.

[Proud American]

For a intimidating gun, that is a pistol but not for home defense heres a .60 cal

http://www.vincelewis.net/50magnum/600-gun-5.JPG

And to see him shoot the Pfeifer Zeliska here it is:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up-pkMCKwX0

Also Grey Wolf i think thats the same sniper system the SAS use. But its for "touching people" not for home defense just like the M1 gran. If there in your house your goin to have to switch and pull out that 9m pistol.

[crashdive123]

For a intimidating gun, that is a pistol but not for home defense heres a .60 cal

http://www.vincelewis.net/50magnum/600-gun-5.JPG

And to see him shoot the Pfeifer Zeliska here it is:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up-pkMCKwX0


What a great example of somebody using a gun that they have no business using. As was said in earlier not every gun is right for everybody.

[beerrunner13]

I think we can rename that on Johnny Butterbut and his hand cannon:D

[Rick]

new gun. $650.00
range time. $12.00 per hour
Having someone video you making a fool of yourself and posting on the internet. Priceless

[crashdive123]

Amen to that!

[chopp29]

Wow, how many teeth yall think he lost on that shot???

[FVR]

What an idiot.

[crashdive123]

Wow, how many teeth yall think he lost on that shot???

Both of em.:D

[Proud American]

Well in defence of the man in that movie, the gun is the largest handgun ever made. It is around 2 feet long and ways 13 pounds.

Rick the gun actualy costes 10 grand, also its 40$ a pop(more like KA-boom)

That is though a complete waste of money and effort. That gun is completely inpractical. The only perk is that you can say you've shot the largest hand gun in the world. This needles to say would not be on my list of house protection fire arms. So sorry Kemperor that I did not answer your question, but used your thread to post a funny video:D!

Personaly, Kemperor none of your choices are up close and personal home defence weapons, but they are great guns for there purposes.

[Rick]

Dang it Don, I almost choked on my coffee with that response. Good one!

Young - That might make the perfect house defense gun. Fire it once and everyone is bleeding through the ears so the intruder is rendered harmless. Or....fire it facing away from the intruder. Once he sees the weapon fly past him he's sure to be confused.

[Beo]

Oh my Gaaaaaaaaawd you guys are killing me with these videos, that dude is a frig'n idiot wrapped in moron... lol... that was so funny I spit my coffee all over my desk and paperwork... lol...
That gun is frig'n waste of mony and time, no praticality whatsoever, but I would love to be there to see that dude do that in person so I could laugh my *** off at that Big Fat Johnny Butterbutt Goofball Idiot... lol...

[Sourdough]

Odd in a discussion of home defense, no one talks about defense. No one talks about retreating to point "X" and rolling the mattress over for a fort, break the light switch off as you go by. Hide in the dark. wait for them to back'light themselves in the doorway. Put the ear plugs in your ears, yea, the ones that you have attached to you Home defense firearm. Maybe have one set for every house member, that kind of stuff.

No the smart thing is worry about the perfect firearm, the perfect ammo, and instead of waiting for them to be back'lighted, the smart thing is go looking for them, be right in the open. Your the home owner, right? Well maybe dead right? Be smart live. For me Remington Model 11-87 in .20 gage youth model. That way anyone over 12 years old can be trained to discharge it. And how to reload it.

If you have home fire drills.......Have home invasion drills.:rolleyes:

[Beo]

Remington 870 pump here bro, kaboom. As I said earlier don't go to the home invader, stay in your bedroom or where ever and have the wife call 911 and let them come to you. Going to them can get your weapon turned on you or they'll shoot you first. Nothing in your home is more valuablle than you and your family, everything in your home can be replaced, you and your family can't.

[marberry]

bang for your buck , Chinese or Russian SKS 7.62x39mm and has a bayonet for close quarters. you can pick one up for about $100-200 almost anywhere , semi auto , legal in canada , highly upgradeable with tactical or hunting stocks , scopes , lasers , etc... iv seen 4 inch shot groups at 700 yards.

[Proud American]

An Assualt Rifle I think thats over kill.

[Beo]

4 inch shot groups at 700 yards.

Not with a junk sks that only cost $100 -$200.00 bucks. The good ones cost at least $400 and up.

[marberry]

yea he prob had a nicer one but who the hell waits for the punk with ur TV to get 700 yards away before u shoot him lol.

[crashdive123]

yea he prob had a nicer one but who the hell waits for the punk with ur TV to get 700 yards away before u shoot him lol.

I know you're only kidding, but I still have to say it. I don't own a T.V. worth somebody's life. Breaking into my house maybe, but leaving with a T.V. probably not.

[Rick]

Have you seen what's on those things lately? It would probably be a huge favor if they take it. It might lead to.....conversation:eek:

[nell67]

Yep,I've seen one lately,and it has this cord attached to it,and on the other end of the cord,is a teenager twiddling his thumbs!!!!!

[Proud American]

Conversation Rick!:eek: No that may lead to other worth while activities.... like going outdoors (dun dun du!):eek:. And that would leave to a healthy life:eek: That would be Terrible! LOL:D

[mbarnatl]

I think I'll just invite these ladies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yryV-5TfwvE&feature=related) to protect my home.

[Rick]

Man! They all had nice...uh....guns.

[marberry]

heres another nice one if you like the M1 Garand,,,, Norinco 'GI Rifle' M-14S 7.62x51mm (interchangeable with .308 winchester) the seals use an upgraded version of this gun for there marksmen (not snipers)

[BraggSurvivor]

When Brittany started stroking that Berretta...........I had to turn it off......:cool: