Thinking it through.

[Sarge47]

I've been reflecting on all the things that I've gotten in the area of survival over the years. Not just equipment, but books and knowledge as well. I was looking at some survival books on Amazon that I didn't have when it suddenly occurred to me that I don't really need anymore books on the subject, and probably own about 20 to many the way it is. I mean seriously, how many books on survival do I really need? They all teach pretty much the same thing. One author may have come up with a new idea on how to do something different or found a new piece of gear, but really, do I need 50 books on survival? No, not really.

Look at the basic needs of survival: Shelter; fire; water; & food. You can learn that in the Boy Scouts given the right group and teacher. Cooking without utensils, starting a fire without matches, building a shelter, boiling water to make it safe to drink.

Look at fire for instance. Okay, you learned how to make a fire using a bow-drill set like Cody Lundin. But what if you don't have the equipment and can't find the right wood for the set? It happens. The Boy Scouts use to teach you to start a fire with only two matches; sound simple? Maybe, but not in a downpour. You'll never start a fire in pouring down rain, you'll have to wait until it stops, then find a method of getting dry tinder and fuel. Now think about trying to start a fire with only two matches. Is the wind blowing...hard? What if the two matches are "book matches?" What if they're "strike on the box matches" and the box isn't there? No problem, you say, I've got my flint steel and I'm good to go! Good for you, but what about the novice who doesn't carry said equipment; or you either lost yours of forgot to pack it? You see, we've taken a lot of things for granted. Crap happens to the best of us. I'm still pondering over all of the ramifications on the subject so if any of you have any input, hopefully "positive" input, feel free to share. :cool2:

[Wingman]

Good food for thought.

[Sourdough]

What is missing is doing it on a regular basis. You know how to do most thinks with out even thinking. Going to the hardware store. You just automatically check wallet check, check book, check, keys check, shopping list check, umbrella check, etc. You drive there and never think about the drive.

My point is you would make a lot of mistakes, just to transition into my life. The problem is we spend too much time thinking about it, and not enough time living it. If you were in the wilderness four days a week, and home for three, the comfort level would switch.

I is just different if you are living it. When I would go afield on guiding hunts, (even after 30 years) I was not in rhythm with the day to day of wilderness life. But after 90 days of day after day, after day, of living in a small tent, when coming home, I could not even drive my truck without feeling like a 15 year old learning to drive.

It is why warriors have so much trouble adapting to life after being at war. I watched the movie "Brothers" last night, and at the end I thought that is what it will be like for people to have to deal with killing someone, if TSHTF.

Look at it this way: You don't have 20 books that outline how to live the life you have been living for the last 40 years.

[LowKey]

After a while, like you say, books on survival become redundant. The less you come to rely on them, the more you can spend your money on other things. Or save it for retirement or for that piece of land you've been looking at. Everything comes down to priorities. And preparation. Someone has a sig quote here that says, "The more you know, the less you have to carry." That doesn't just pertain to what you take on your next hike but also the stuff that costs you money.
More important to me than books on survival are things like plant ID books, herbals, intensive gardening techniques and getting a bunch of the more arcane online knowledge into laser printed notebooks.

[Sourdough]

I was looking for an old thread that I started, and I could not find it. This is not it, but kind of close. See it has never made any logic to me why people are wanting survival skills, if they are not going to live it.

I feel it is not the comfort that is gleaned for the knowledge in and of it's self. I feel people are drawn to the wilderness because of a void with in them, a feeling that something is missing and it could be found in the wilderness.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?6843-Wilderness-quot-SPIRIT-quot-sub-section-or-Filling-the-VOID-With-in&highlight=Oneness

[Wildthang]

I have found that books are good at first, but actual practice teaches you more. Somtimes I'll go out after a rain to my back 40, and build a fire out of what I can find, and roast stuff on the fire. And I'll shoot a couple of boxes of ammo, and just hang out back there. In the spring I set up a camp back there and I sleep more back in the camp, than I do in the house. I learn a lot of things just tinkering around in the woods. Last winter I built a tarp shelter and slept in it all night, almost froze because it was 10 degrees outside, and let me tell you I learned a couple of things from that. I survived the cold, and also found out I needed a new sleeping bag! It was one miserable night! You really learn a lot just horsen around in the woods!

[Rick]

Maybe. But I thirst for knowledge of space and planets and have no desire to go there. I watch in wonder a show about the deep oceans and hang on every word because I want to LEARN more about it. I read voraciously about Gandhi or Mary Parker Follett or Shakespeare because it broadens my horizons. Sometimes the thrill is in the learning. Knowledge in and of itself is a powerful thing if you understand that you become a better person every time you learn something. I don't have to spend 30 days in the wild to be refreshed or fill some void. I can fill that void in 10 minutes with one of my grand kids and when they leave I'm a new person for the time I've shared with them. I know you can't understand that and while you might feel sorry for me for not being able to spend more time in the woods I can, at the same time, feel sorry for you that you won't have your grand daughter run up to you all puckered up and just danged glad to see you.

We all make choices in life. The real secret to living a life fulfilled is not to lament the things we do not have but to enjoy the blessing of the things we do. That is what people are missing. The ability to understand life isn't really all that complicated.

[Wildthang]

Wow Rick, just Wow! That was deep dude!:)

[Sourdough]

That is great, Rick. And it explains how it is for Rick. My point is that youth (say 15 to 30) have a disproportionate (to those not 15 to 30) desire to find something that they feel is missing in them.

[JPGreco]

I was looking for an old thread that I started, and I could not find it. This is not it, but kind of close. See it has never made any logic to me why people are wanting survival skills, if they are not going to live it.

I feel it is not the comfort that is gleaned for the knowledge in and of it's self. I feel people are drawn to the wilderness because of a void with in them, a feeling that something is missing and it could be found in the wilderness.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?6843-Wilderness-quot-SPIRIT-quot-sub-section-or-Filling-the-VOID-With-in&highlight=Oneness

That is actually a core theme in one of my favorite books. That modern life lacks something that deep down we desire.

[Rick]

And that's my whole point. People make it a lot tougher than it is. It's the next valley over, the new wilderness book, as Sarge said, another new backpack, another new survival kit, a little further up river or down. But it's never there when you get there. Unless you are happy with yourself you can't be happy no matter where you go or what you buy. You have to appreciate yourself for who you are then you can appreciate what you have. Then you don't have a void. You don't have to spend time anywhere because where ever you are is just fine. I know there are many, mostly older, members on here that understand exactly what I'm talking about because they are there, too. The secret to life is there's no secret to life. Just accept yourself.

[Sourdough]

And that's my whole point. People make it a lot tougher than it is. It's the next valley over, the new wilderness book, as Sarge said, another new backpack, another new survival kit, a little further up river or down. But it's never there when you get there. Unless you are happy with yourself you can't be happy no matter where you go or what you buy. You have to appreciate yourself for who you are then you can appreciate what you have. Then you don't have a void. You don't have to spend time anywhere because where ever you are is just fine. I know there are many, mostly older, members on here that understand exactly what I'm talking about because they are there, too. The secret to life is there's no secret to life. Just accept yourself.

OH, You mean like the "Oneness" I talk about......

[natertot]

Can't a guy just have a hobby? What's with all the deep philosphy tonight???!!!

[JPGreco]

well, the book isn't just about tramping through the wilderness to earn your manliness. It's more about not ignoring that part of yourself. And it's not about the wilderness persay, but about something deep inside that we do have the ability to access. Often it is found in the wilderness, in times when you are testing yourself against anything really.

As Sourdough stated, a lot of people use material items or drugs/alcohol to try to fill this void.

[Sarge47]

I have to agree with both Rick and Sourdough; Rick is right about what makes one happy; to me it's the smiles on the faces of the kids I see when I'm performing my magic, but that's not the only thing. I totally love the woods, the sounds that it makes at night, the campfire crackling and popping, sitting there and just soaking it all in. If I could get out more I surely would! But I also love my kids and grand-kids. Rick hit it right on the nose there. Don't get me wrong, like everybody else on here I really enjoy a new piece of equipment, but do I really need it? No. I also realize that we experienced outdoors people on here will probably never get into a really bad survival situation unless we get seriously injured. Panic in the woods kills most of those who get lost, and who on here is going to panic? Maybe it's time to not just be the students, but teachers as well. The Boy Scouts, for the most part, have dropped the ball, and the area is wide open.

If I were to ever find myself lost in the woods, so what? I would sit down, build a campfire, if I could, and survive. But more than anything else I would enjoy the spot that I found myself in. I find the woods exhilarating, inspirational, and breathtaking. Yes, this site has progressed well beyond it's original simple premise of "72 hour survival period lost in the wilderness." We have tool and knife making, homesteading, and so on. Those things are great and needed too. But that wasn't where I was headed.

What is it about this time of year that makes one sit and think? If I could I'd like to be with Sourdough, enjoying one of the truly last frontiers that we have in this world, but alas I can't. I envy him. :cool2:

[Sourdough]

Can't a guy just have a hobby? What's with all the deep philosphy tonight???!!!

Rick pays me to drive him crazy. It is such a easy job. Hehehehehe

[Winter]

Good post.

Wait for the rain to stop? So, I can't have a fire till April?

No fair.

[crashdive123]

Good post.

Wait for the rain to stop? So, I can't have a fire till April?

No fair.

This is why your tinder kit includes road flares and propane torches huh?

[Rick]

SD - Exactly like that. We're in complete agreement on it. I just don't think it HAS to be found in the wilderness. You can find it where ever you choose to look for it.

You don't have to drive me crazy. Just walk with me. It's a very, very short trip.

[hunter63]

Ah,...... that's what I thought....it's the journey....not necessarily the destination, wouldn't want to get there and say "That's it?"

[Rick]

I don't want to get there and hear, "Sorry, you're in the wrong line. You need to take the down elevator."

"But, but, but..."

[southard]

The Dalai lama says to me "at the time of your death you will acheive complete enlightenment" so I got that goin for me

[Rick]

I just hope it's not the realization that you should have had the brakes replaced on the truck.

[southard]

you know come to think of it... umm I gotta go I think I left the stove on or somethin

[Warheit]

Extremely thoughtful and insightful thread. Thank you everyone who contributed.