Bov/bol

[tank]

I have been trying to think of a good BOL, haven't found one yet. Then I was talking to a neighbor he might have a good idea. A Houseboat, some of them will sleep 12-13 people, have all of the comforts of home and some of them are as big as a house. I have seen one the hull is open and could be used as a root celler. You could move as often as you want, you could tie up where ever you want. The area to be used is from all of the great lakes in the summer to the gulf coast in the winter.The river waterways are beyong discreption. with the idea of tieing up at a specfic location and maybe have a garden, with a water purifier water would not be a problem. In some of the southern areas caves are plentiful, a person can get as far away from others as you may want or as close as you want.
I have been serching in the web and found some houseboats less expensive than a BOL on land. with no taxes, or alot of up keep.

What do ya think, a truthful opion is needed.
Tank

[gryffynklm]

Great idea if:

You can get fuel when you need it, find fuel for a heat source, aren't allergic to fish, can find a shelter cove when whether goes bad, pass through locks if power goes down, hide on open water, repair the engine and have parts just in case, avoid pirates, run silently, Not loose your boat.

Just a few things off the top of my head. You have many of the same issues on land, its just much easier to hide.

I'm not saying its not a plausible idea just that it sounds really difficult.

[SARKY]

A houseboat is not a bad idea if you live near the water. I would how ever want a smaller boat or kayak to do exploring with. Also think about making it sink proof (filling the flotation hulls with foam much like a Boston whaler hull) you will also want some sort of ballistic protection (this can be heavy). Think about your max flotation weight (how much stuff, weight wise, you can load onto the boat without compromising its performance. Then of course there are the fuel requirements. Will you have pre-planned safe harbors for when the weather turns bad?

[tank]

I'm told the shore line on the rivers and larger man made lakes belong to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers no tresspassing need to be concerned about.
If you look at Google Earth the rivers, and lakes (ie) cumberland lake, and Kentucky lake and Bartley Lake, alot of small coves are there plus some larger islands, that you could hide behind. And it doesn't look like any land access to these areas.

I think a person could tie up in these areas and stay there unless he has to move, and that might be a little tricky, but staying put may be a little tricky on land as well.

I was thinking a stash on land could be made, for future use, The hulls are made of fiberglass, steel, aluminam some hulls have floation in them and some are open for storage, I guess you could add floation if needed.

Just some of my thoughts, I'm looking at the thought of being able to move if you want to, instead of staying put.
staying put could be dangerous if you could be surrounded.

I'm told these boats have between 200 and 300 gal fuel tanks at a burn rate of approx. 2 miles per gal.
But as you said, a small boat like a small 16 foot fishing boat for running around. I guess I was thinking about on the water, being able to move when wanted to, and useing Govt. land if needed and then moving and useing more land somewhere else. Mind you am talking about a SHTF situation and not an everyday plan.
A boat in the water doesn't leave a trail to follow, so I think it would be easier to hide in the right spot.
I think it is an enteresting idea, not sure if it would be valid or not. If we have time I think next spring we are going to go to Cumberland Lake, rent a house boat for a week and see how it goes. If it goes well then we will think about buying one, if not then we are back to square one. With a very nice vacation.
Tank

[Rick]

Tank - Sourdough had suggested a barge for inter-coastal travel and in an area like the Inside Passage would probably be an ideal solution. However, if the situation is severe then remember that the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are only navigable because the Corps maintains Locks and Dams (may be administered by some states) and keeps the main channels dredged. The Mississippi in particular was so shallow in dry summer months that it could be walked across. That was prior to the dams of course but one has to wonder what condition river travel would be if TSHTF and those managing the locks bugged out as well.

I'm not certain what advantage you would have on a lake smaller than the Great Lakes. You could certainly travel from one point to another on the lake but you could do the same in a land vehicle and probably encounter relatively little traffic compared to say the interstates. In addition, given the state of our infrastructure in the U.S. I would think the dams and earthen levees could be damaged, perhaps fatally so, during a major earthquake.

I would think if you own a houseboat then it gives you some options you might not otherwise have but I don't think it's an investment, specifically for bugging out, that would be overly prudent.

The other thing to remember is that firearms are NOT permitted on any Corps of Engineers property. That includes their lakes as well.

[hunter63]

I for one wouldn't consider this as an option.

Open water is open water, and if you, pardon the pun, a possible sitting duck.

As you are limited to water ways, or shore line on the water, generally populated by people that can afford to live there, or complete wilderness, (read no re-supply)....You are limiting your options on where you can go.

Boats by nature are a hole in the water surrounded by wood, metal or fiberglass the you throw money into.

Give it a try, but it wouldn't be my first option.
Just my opinion

[rebel]

The lakes and rivers freeze around here.

[hunter63]

The lakes and rivers freeze around here.

Yeah, There is that..... you are correct.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

It is actually done here in the swamp. Most swampers have a houseboat tied up deep in the swamp. Runabouts are used to travel to and frow. I have posted pictures before for those that have been around here.

[Winter]

I think it's feasible if you don't intend to travel very much. Get in among the small islands way off in the boonies and have some cammo nets.

I would beat being in a city or large suburb in my opinion.

A friend of mine has a bugout boat. It's a 32' seiner converted to a pleasure craft. He can hold 2500 lbs of crap in it and he hauls a skiff behind it. It's a better idea here, maybe, because so few people and such a huge area to hide in.

For a motor that doesn't need fuel, a windmill powered electric motor would give you some mobility even after conventional fuel is gone.

[Rick]

I think this is sort of in line with an aircraft, fixed or rotary wing. It gives you options that many others don't have but the limitations are king sized and the benefits aren't that large.

An airboat might be a better option for bugging out especially if you have waterways and bottom lands. Even if frozen or shallow water it will still work.

[SemperFi]

I like the houseboat option , as I live on a large lake in Oklahoma with 1300 miles of shoreline , theres plenty of coves and what not , the deepest part of the lake is about 200 feet , plenty of fishing , the only disadvantage is the lake has a large damn (built in the 30's) well built) but nonetheless manmade! Many times Ive thought about this , there is a guy that has a submersible (submarine , 3-4 seater) and he usually comes out in the winter when theres less travel on the lake , im not sure how deep it goes , the lake can be treacherous some spots are only 10 feet deep and others 150 feet ,but if you wanted to get in and out without being seen that would be the way , at night , rowing or pedalcraft is a good way (no noise) , I myself have a 30 foot deck boat a Hurricane and its plenty useful , it could be converted to use a canopy for cover (as it does in the summer months!) fuel will be your enemy on the lake , because when it drys up on land its frozen on the lake!

[natertot]

The other thing to remember is that firearms are NOT permitted on any Corps of Engineers property. That includes their lakes as well.

Not so. Firearms are indeed permitted on ACE property, so long as they are not concealed as defined by state law in which the ACE property exists.

[Rick]

Sorry. That's not correct. Corps of Engineers does not recognize state law nor are they required to abide by it. They are governed by Title 36 Code of Regulations 327.13 Explosives, Firearms, Other Weapons and Fireworks. If you get caught on Corps property with a properly cased weapon they can arrest you.

"(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:

(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under § 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to,from or between hunting and fishing sites;

(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or

(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=36&PART=327&SECTION=13&YEAR=2000&TYPE=PDF

[tank]

Well everyone has come up with some valid points, another thing I thought about, if a damn should break, the water from the lake above the damn comes rushing out. If a boat is in the lake above the damn that boat could be washed out of the lake with the rushing water. or if the boat is tied up it could be dry docked in a mater of minutes.
If the boat is below the damn the sight of a wall of water coming at you, I can't imangine the fright that would produce.
So I have come to the conclusion the house boat is not a good idea, I guess I will have to keep looking, thanks for all of your opinions they have helped a great deal.

Thanks
Tank

[kyratshooter]

Tank - Sourdough had suggested a barge for inter-coastal travel and in an area like the Inside Passage would probably be an ideal solution. However, if the situation is severe then remember that the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are only navigable because the Corps maintains Locks and Dams (may be administered by some states) and keeps the main channels dredged. The Mississippi in particular was so shallow in dry summer months that it could be walked across. That was prior to the dams of course but one has to wonder what condition river travel would be if TSHTF and those managing the locks bugged out as well.

I'm not certain what advantage you would have on a lake smaller than the Great Lakes. You could certainly travel from one point to another on the lake but you could do the same in a land vehicle and probably encounter relatively little traffic compared to say the interstates. In addition, given the state of our infrastructure in the U.S. I would think the dams and earthen levees could be damaged, perhaps fatally so, during a major earthquake.

I would think if you own a houseboat then it gives you some options you might not otherwise have but I don't think it's an investment, specifically for bugging out, that would be overly prudent.

The other thing to remember is that firearms are NOT permitted on any Corps of Engineers property. That includes their lakes as well.


I must agree with Rick on this one(gasp#!$choke@*&sputter)!!!

Especally about the navigation of these systems. Few realize that the Ohio river was impassable for over half the year before the locks and dams were situation through the 1930-40 period. At any time between July and September one could walk across the river. In the winter months it was often so shallow it froze and was impassable. The Misouri was equally impassable for several months each year and the Mississippi was infested with plague and disease. Even as late as 1877 Memphis had yellow fever epidemics, colera was common and milaria ruled the day. this had as much to do with the stagnent pools of water as the lack of knowledge of how to deal with the disease. The cherokee CHOSE to march the Trail of Tears in the winter so they could avoid the disease they knew would plague the rivers they would have to travel.

Things are not now as they have always been or will be. We look at these rivers and see clear free waterways when that is not their natural state.

the flip side is that the maintainance of the waterways is a constitutional mandate of the federal gov. The locks and dams on the waterways are absolutely vital for economic concerns and even when the interstate highways are a mass of demolished bridges and pot holes the government will maintain some control over the waterways.

[Rick]

Tank - Unless you're on the ocean or Great Lakes I think you're making the right decision. It's just my opinion but if something happens and you have no choice but to move locations then land based travel is about your only choice. Hunter and I have pretty much agreed that a used ambulance would be a good choice. Not many folks would bother an ambulance and if it was 4X4 all the better.

[BENESSE]

A used ambulance would be a terrific choice; so would a vehicle used for transporting hazardous materials. Thing is, unless you can afford to garage it (occasionally taking it out to keep it in running condition) you'd look pretty dorky riding around town in it. Also, don't know if it would be legal. (impersonating something so vital)

[Rick]

Looking dorky in an ambulance is the least of my worries. I look dorky when I......well.....I just look dorky. I mean, come on, I'm a 50 something chubby guy still wearing my cub scout uniform (although it fits pretty well....see avatar)

[BENESSE]

I should have been clearer.
The concern is driving it while all's well, and bidness as usual. Aside from looking odd, people are gonna be aware of you more than ever when you pull up at Walmart, Golden Corral or a campsite.

[Rick]

Well, if I pull up at Golden Corral and mention food poisoning I'm pretty much at the front of the line. Survival of the fittest. Scratch that. Survival of the most cunning.

[tank]

I was thinking about bridges, if traveling on land, trying to cross water, (ie) streams, rivers, etc, etc, and the bridge is out might have a problem, but if on the water and the bridge is out might have a bigger problem, could be a big (road block ) for boats trying to go up or down stream, I just want to find a BOL, but can't find the perfect one.

[natertot]

Sorry. That's not correct. Corps of Engineers does not recognize state law nor are they required to abide by it. They are governed by Title 36 Code of Regulations 327.13 Explosives, Firearms, Other Weapons and Fireworks. If you get caught on Corps property with a properly cased weapon they can arrest you.

"(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:

(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under § 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to,from or between hunting and fishing sites;

(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or

(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=36&PART=327&SECTION=13&YEAR=2000&TYPE=PDF

The hunting portion is what I was mostly referring to. The weapon must not be concealed either, and in my area, they use my state's definition of concealed. I guess they do this to eliminate confusion over two different definitions of the same word???

[hunter63]

If finding the perfect place is your goal....you need to stay on point.
First step is to make a list of what you want, a hard list.

"Must have" is first, then anything would want that would be "nice but not necessary".

Next part is money, if it's land, this is a biggie...and can fall into the "won't ever have enough money so I'll just do something else instead'...by doing that you won't ever have enough money.

Land is kinda lower now, but not as low as you might think......but you have to start somewhere.
Started in 1989 with 10 acres after looking for several years, added more ten years later....but back then it was a "Homestead", not a BOL...but as it turns out same thing, different name, but still a "Place" that you have a shot at being self suffent.

Yeah, I still want an ambulance, 4X4 and diesel would be nice....but in the system of my priorities....and I get reminded all the time by DW, "Better build your Ag building first so you have a place to park it."

Need to define you wants and need and stay on point.

Have a friend that complains that he can't afford a 'place", but keeps spending money on his present house, what ever that latest cabinets counter tops flooring, that he will never get back...then tries to talk me into doing the same......I just pack up the truck and head over here.

[tank]

Well here goes, with my daughter and her family living in the Louisville area, my son and his family living in southern Michigan almost northern Indiana, and my wife and I in southern Michigan, almost northern Indiana.
Indianapolis is about half way, but of course don't want to be anywhere around Indianapolis on the east side of Indy, Dayton, and Cincinatti is close as well, on the west side of Indy is some smaller towns and Tere hault is not far away either, Winters are better in Indiana than in Michigan, with a longer growing season, but with so much farm land around the price would be higher and not too far remote. In the northern part of Michigan is out of the question due to the availability for the daughter and her family, too far to drive.
Not much difference for Ohio, I even thought about southern Indiana, but the trip for the son and his family would be forebidding as well, I would like something that is convente for the whole family.
Please forgive my spelling,

If some one has some ideas let me know

Thanks
Tank

[hunter63]

If gathering up your family is gonna be a priority, then that's gonna be a problem,.... my DD and SIL or in Louisiana....pretty far piece...so I hear ya.

[Rick]

The problem with anything above Bloomington, IN is flat farm land and not much woods. Western Indiana is an exception but beyond that even the deer are skinny so they can hide behind the few saplings we have left. I saw one last week that had corn stalks stuck in his rack for camouflage. The Colts T-shirt didn't help either. Pretty sad, really. I know you think I'm kiddin' but.....

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/189237221_e2428e0422.jpg

[hunter63]

Yeah, well they seem to be hiding in WI as well.......That there is a funny looking deer....LOL

[lucznik]

As far as a "perfect" location; well... there aren't any. Just like with most things, there are always going to be compromises that have to be made.

Presence of clean water, moderate climate, abundance of "forageables?" Yes, there are places like that. And if/when society collapses, those are the very places that everyone is going to have chosen as their BOL. All of a sudden those ideal places don't look so ideal.

If you want a BOL that is going to allow you to get away from the masses of humanity, you are probably going to have to select a spot that, for one reason or another, is considered undesirable by those masses and you are then going to have to be willing to put in the effort needed to overcome that place's shortcomings.