Cash not good anymore in Louisiana for used goods.

[hunter63]

Just another FYI.....But it seems your "legal" tender not to legal any longer in Louisiana.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/236218-Cash-Transactions-Banned-by-Louisiana-Government-Takes-Private-Property-Without-Due-Process

Excerpt
Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:30 CDT
Louisiana bans cash payments to buy 2nd hand items except for non-profit stores
This summer, the State Legislature and Governor of Louisiana passed a law that bans individuals and businesses from transacting in cash if they are considered a "secondhand dealer". House Bill 195 of the 2011 Regular Session (Act 389) broadly defines a secondhand dealer to include "... Anyone, other than a non-profit entity, who buys, sells, trades in or otherwise acquires or disposes of junk or used or secondhand property more frequently than once per month from any other person, other than a non-profit entity, shall be deemed as being in the business of a secondhand dealer. " The law then states that "A secondhand dealer shall not enter into any cash transactions in payment for the purchase of junk or used or secondhand property. Payment shall be made in the form of check, electronic transfers, or money order issued to the seller of the junk or used or secondhand property..." The broad scope of this definition can essentially encompass everyone; from your local flea market vendors and buyers to a housewife purchasing goods on ebay or craigslist, to a group of guys trading baseball cards, they could all be considered secondhand dealers. Lawmakers in Louisiana have effectively banned its citizens from freely using United States legal tender. The law goes further to require secondhand dealers to turn over their business' proprietary client information. For every transaction a secondhand dealer must obtain the seller's personal information such as their name, address, driver's license number and the license plate number of the vehicle in which the goods were delivered. They must also make a detailed description of the item(s) purchased and submit this with the personal identification information of every transaction to the local policing authorities through electronic daily reports. If a seller cannot or refuses to produce to the secondhand dealer any of the required forms of identification, the secondhand dealer is prohibited from completing the transaction
More @ link

[canid]

they're like the IRS; they make no allowance for hides and beads.

you know those habitual yard salers, getting rich without paying appropriate taxes...

[Rick]

I'm surprised more haven't passed a similar law. I don't know how it is where you live but around here scrap metal sales probably surpass precious metals sales. We've had copper stolen from the local food banks refrigeration system that spoiled thousands of dollars worth of food. Manhole covers stolen and sold along with the resulting vehicle damage that occurred. We've have metal drain gratings stolen, aluminum house siding stripped off of houses. That's all in downtown Indy. At least it gives a method of tracking who sold the metal. A cash sale does not.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

You must submit your drivers liscense for metal scrap sales here.

[rebel]

What, don't you enjoy being punished because of someone else's inability to do the right thing?

[woodsman86]

The question is whether the cost of checks, MO, and electronic transfer is now tax deductible as a business expense. I can understand reporting requirements like a pawn shop, but why ban cash? Cost of living has already gone up enough without adding fees for buying something secondhand.

I'll be crossing LA off my states to live, along with CA since being American doesn't qualify me for a state scholarship there.

[Rick]

The first answer is yes. Costs associated with a business are generally deductible.

It's not buying something secondhand. It's selling it to the dealer. "If a seller cannot or refuses to produce to the secondhand dealer any of the required forms of identification, the secondhand dealer is prohibited from completing the transaction".

It looks like this was an existing law that has been revised to add some items. Mostly for building materials and electrical wiring from the looks of the actual bill but they added railroad track materials as well. Here's a link to the revised bill. Underscored words are additions to the bill.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53926788/HB-195-HB195-Current-Louisiana-Legislature-via-MyGov365-com

[crashdive123]

This really isn't as nefarious as it sounds. I was in Tallahassee a while back and a few of the legislators I talked to mentioned that Florida was looking at something similar. Theft of residential ac units and break ins at businesses for copper and other metals has just about become epidemic. If the thieves can't sell it, they'll stop stealing it.

[SARKY]

Tell me again why I shouldn't HATE and FEAR my government?

[JPGreco]

Around here, all the scrap yards require ID before dealing with you. They also won't take things that look like they were stolen, such as large amounts of wiring or pipe. In that regard, I do not mind it. I know two of the guys at the local scrap yard pretty well and even then, they had to get an approval when I came in with a lot of piping from a demo job we did.

[your_comforting_company]

Good thing I have all these skins to trade in case they ban cash in georgia too...

ridiculous, but I can't say I didn't see it coming.

[randyt]

Maybe the "new world order" is closer than we think. LOL

I go with the old saying "in god we trust but all others must pay cash"

[Rick]

When you wake up in the morning and find half the aluminum siding stripped from your house and Sheriff John Brown has the nose pickin', pierced eyebrow wearin', meth jockey because he tried to sell it at the local scrap dealers you'll be sayin', "Boy ole John Brown knows his stuff."

[Winter]

Wow Rick, are you serious? How bad will it get down south before someone does something effective and meaningful in the Justice system?

This law is full on retard.

Giving up liberty for safety is un-American

[randyt]

actually a business owner would be foolish to buy materials (new or used) with cash instead of a check. A checkbook makes record keeping pretty doggone simple transaction in, transaction out.

[Rick]

Forcing someone to show ID then paying them in something other than cash is Un-American? Letting them steel copper from working freezers and letting hungry people go without food is Un-American? Yeah, I'm serious. I think it's a good law. Stop some of the drug trade then maybe we won't need these kinds of laws. Who protects the folks that get stolen from? If you make it so there is no easy buck to be made they will stop going after the stuff. And explain to me how that gives up liberty because I sure don't see it. Liberty is being able to live WITHOUT worrying about some lunatic steeling the copper out of your air conditioner while your back is turned.

I'd rather live in a country that is safe than to live in a country where paranoia runs rampant. That may be the real zombie disease.

[Winter]

Whose "letting" them steal copper? Why arent the police looking at catching actual criminals instead or criminalizing the human act of freely exchanging goods. services, and monies?

Have fun at your next gun show..

[crashdive123]

I don't see any liberty issues with the law either. Years ago, when I worked for a pest control company that got sold we had to get the trucks ready for sale. My office had over 200 trucks. We had to strip the tanks (either 25 or 100 gallons) and remove the ladder racks from them. So now we had a lot of tanks and ladder racks that I was told ---- make them go away. Anybody that wanted a tank got one. We took all of the rather large aluminum ladder racks to a local scrap yard. This was in 2002 - they asked for ID and paid with a check - even though there was no law requiring it. The money paid for quite a few BBQ's for the guys and gals I worked with.

[Winter]

Will this ID card be free?

The point is that the law would make it illegal for me to buy old copper pipes at a yardsale. What about sawblades?

What about any yard sale, flea market, and gun show?

This thread is too political for an old libertarian.

[randyt]

there was a provision in the new health care law that required any transaction over $500 (If memory serves) that a 1099 was to be filed. I think it was aimed at coin dealer. I found it amusing that some folks stated that it was about time businesses paid their taxes. What I found amusing was they didn't understand that the business didn't pay the tax on the transaction but the recipient of the 1099 was responsible for the tax if any. I think this provision was struck out of the law.

[crashdive123]

It seems to me that the attorney might be blowing this up a little bigger than it really is. Here is the actual text of the law. http://www.mygov365.com/legislation/view/id/4db66f7549e51bd334be0300/tab/versions/ The law pertains to second hand dealers (and defines the term). While it is, IMO a small burden to the business, I don't think it impacts the seller at all (unless of course they are dealing in stolen stuff - which is of course what this is designed to stop).

I am not a fan of increased regulations and things that interfere with business. I just don't see this particular law (already on the books in several places) as an impediment to business or liberty. If the law is abused and is carried beyond the intent of it, then I would certainly agree that those issues need to be corrected.

[Rick]

Winter it doesn't stop you from buying anything. What it does do is ensure that you have to show a valid drivers license or other ID at a scrap dealers to SELL it and you can only be paid in some form other than cash. All it does is establish a tracking mechanism for crooks that sell illegally obtained scrap. LE can actually trace the transaction of show proof that John Doe sold the stolen copper and cashed the check with his signature on it. If you personally go to a yard sale and buy 100 pounds of copper pipe that Billy Bob pulled out of his old rental house you're fine. You can take it to a scrap dealer, get your check for a gazillion dollars and no one cares. But if Billy Bob claims you stole the copper out of his house you might want to have a receipt. Just sayin'......

I'm with Crash. I think the title is hosed on the article. It implies that transactions across the board can't use cash when, in fact, they are targeting a very small percentage of the population for wrong doing. It's too bad but that's why laws get passed. The police do enforce the laws but when the transactions are cash based there is no tracking mechanism in place and nothing to tie the criminal to the act excluding video or other forensics, which may or may not be there. If you have to show proof of identity (it's not a new ID card) and must get paid by check then LE can directly tie the thief to the act along with any other forensics. It's just another tool in the act of "catching actual criminals instead or criminalizing the human act of freely exchanging goods. services, and monies". (see? I read your posts:stuart:)

[your_comforting_company]

That's right. This is not affecting the twice-a-year yard saler. This IS affecting scrap dealers AND helping to keep track of stolen goods. Scrapping is a big thing around here. Several years ago, tornadoes picked up and tossed around lots of farm implements, tractors, irrigation, barns, etc. It was a real mess. Most of the folks that had such mess would offer the scraps to anyone willing to come get it and haul it off.
I go to work, and work my butt off AND pay taxes on it like I'm supposed to. These laws make the transactions trackable, so that now the scrappers (not necessarily even druggies) will pay their fair share also. My BIL can't seem to keep a real job for more than two weeks at a time, and probably has never paid ANY taxes, but always gets a tax refund. That's right... He's getting a free check from the government, and avoiding paying taxes on 4 million tons of scrap metal (not necessarily even copper)
In an economic situation where we really need to level the playing field, I feel like this will force them to "play fair". I think that he should have to pay taxes just like me and you, and companies tracking their payouts and cashed check transactions will put 1099's in his mailbox and make him accountable to the same laws we honest, hardworking Americans follow without being told.

I do not specifically approve of this law as it is, but I do think it's a step in the right direction. It is NOT criminalization of yard-selling.

[Rick]

I think your point is a good one, YCC, and not one I had thought of. I was thinking more in terms of the criminal element. But those that get and don't give would certainly be impacted, too. Good insight.

[SARKY]

I just get sick and tired of laws that punish the masses because of the transgressions of a few!

[Wise Old Owl]

You must submit your drivers liscense for metal scrap sales here.

That's NOT for the same reason =

that's to capture thief's.

This whole thread is a non-sequitor - its crime prevention and I am glad a few here looked it up.... nice learning curve.

[LowKey]

When the first line item to be deleted in town and city budgets is police and firefighting, just who do you expect to be out there catching criminals in the act of stealing your copper. Around here the new go-to item is catalytic converters. You come outside to find your car pipes laying on the ground.