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View Full Version : Medium Alice and Load bearing Vest?



COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 10:09 PM
I was thinking it would be reasonable to attach a Medium Alice w/frame to a load bearing vest. I am sure can "make" it work but is it done in the military? I have bought the components and am trying to understand the correct way to do this. All I know is that they are compatible gear. Thanks in advance for any real knowledge about the combo...

Rick
08-11-2011, 10:18 PM
Maybe some pictures might help. I'm trying to visualize how you want to mate the two items.

Winter
08-11-2011, 10:21 PM
No, it isn't done. You wouldn't want to take off your combat gear just to get to your backpack. It's only done on short patrols for the RTO and usually they don't do it either.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 10:29 PM
Maybe some pictures might help. I'm trying to visualize how you want to mate the two items.

Give me till' the morning...I'll have pictures! Gees..Oh and I just installed that trigger! Lookin' good pics of that project in the am also! Had my little girls Summer Camp Recital deal thing tonight! Would you believe it...it all arrived tonight while I was preoccupied. Ithink it was planned!

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 10:30 PM
No, it isn't done. You wouldn't want to take off your combat gear just to get to your backpack. It's only done on short patrols for the RTO and usually they don't do it either.

So it is doable....I am not in combat, just carrying gear?

Rick
08-11-2011, 10:33 PM
What do you plan on hauling on the frame. What kind of LBE do you have? Is it Molle?

Rick
08-11-2011, 10:34 PM
I'll just wait for the pics. I'm really having trouble visualizing this. The medium Alice has its own shoulder straps so I'm trying to figure out what you gain.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 10:39 PM
I'll just wait for the pics. I'm really having trouble visualizing this. The medium Alice has its own shoulder straps so I'm trying to figure out what you gain.

The one I bought has no straps. I stole it though and it appears barely used...newish. The frame I bought looks like whoever wore it went through some serious hard knocks! The vest in great shape just says...Tactical Load Bearing Vest (enhanced)

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 10:42 PM
http://www.heartlandvaluesoutdoors.com/servlet/the-Tactical-Load-Bearing-Vests-%28Enhanced%29/Categories
Here it is.

Rick
08-11-2011, 10:42 PM
The Medium was designed to be used with or without frame. If it doesn't have shoulder straps you can by them just about anywhere. You don't have to attach the frame to anything if that's why you are doing it. You can even order some Molle shoulder straps and install those. That will give you a LOT more padding than the OE Alice straps. It takes a slight mod to the frame but it works well.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 11:00 PM
The Medium was designed to be used with or without frame. If it doesn't have shoulder straps you can by them just about anywhere. You don't have to attach the frame to anything if that's why you are doing it. You can even order some Molle shoulder straps and install those. That will give you a LOT more padding than the OE Alice straps. It takes a slight mod to the frame but it works well.

I may consider the Molle straps. I have some Alice straps but yeah this pack I bought it without and intending on using the LBE with frame.

SARKY
08-11-2011, 11:09 PM
Normally with a load bearing vest, a ruck or day pack is attached to the vest. Not something as large as an ALICE. I have my load bearing vest set up to dock and lock my Kifaru E&E pack to it.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 11:14 PM
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af330/COWBOYSURVIVAL/DSCN3712.jpg

Vest from the back.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af330/COWBOYSURVIVAL/DSCN3713.jpg

From the side.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af330/COWBOYSURVIVAL/DSCN3714.jpg

I think, I want to marry the 2 together. It looks like it would fit my needs...

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 11:18 PM
Normally with a load bearing vest, a ruck or day pack is attached to the vest. Not something as large as an ALICE. I have my load bearing vest set up to dock and lock my Kifaru E&E pack to it.

Thanks Sarky, I have a few smaller packs that would work for that. I do have a need that this idea might fit though. Think Horseback. Easy access items out front, shorter proflie Medium Alice out back. I have a few other packs that may be alternatives. Just brainstorming the "idea" behind my purchase.

Winter
08-11-2011, 11:38 PM
If you are set on doing it. Lose the frame

Cut the tabs open on the back suspenders so you can pull them out of the metal keepers.
Reroute the tabs through the keeper, through the little d-rings the shoulder straps go through and back through the keeper.

Those vests are worth every penny of what they are charging for them. Good gear IMO. I do like the LBE better in warm weather.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-11-2011, 11:51 PM
If you are set on doing it. Lose the frame

Cut the tabs open on the back suspenders so you can pull them out of the metal keepers.
Reroute the tabs through the keeper, through the little d-rings the shoulder straps go through and back through the keeper.

Those vests are worth every penny of what they are charging for them. Good gear IMO. I do like the LBE better in warm weather.

Thanks for your response. You know exactly what I am trying to do. I will have to cut the keepers off. I don't want to loose the frame though, I like the comfort for the weight I plan to carry. I see no issue doing the same with the frame. I'll look at attaching it to the "D' rings. I will try and retain the space between my back and the pack using the Alice belt. I know it isn't the norm now, but I am convinced it fits my needs. My needs are pretty specialized actually. It is durn hot here! The plan is to have the same or more storage than my Lg. Alice, increase mobility and stabilize the load center of mass.

Rick
08-12-2011, 07:27 AM
Rather than cut up the vest why couldn't you just get some 1 inch webbing and 4 buckles? Anchor on the top of the fame by looping the new webbing around the top bar on the frame and securing it with two buckles. Feed the webbing through the buckle on top of the vest, down through the D rings and anchor back on the frame using a loop and the other two buckles. Leave some excess webbing on both top and lower buckles. That would not only make the webbing adjustable so you could loosen or tighten the frame if you need but it would not alter either the vest or the pack in case you decide to go another route down the road.

6830

I'm just trying to think through it but I think that might work. The only problem might be the buckles hitting the hardware on the vest and not snugging as tight at you want at the top. If that's the case then you should be able to extend top buckles down through the top of the pack utilizing the shoulder strap's metal loops on the frame and attach both top and bottom to the middle horizontal bar on the frame. Since you won't be using a kidney pad you shouldn't have any trouble finding either an anchor point on the bottom of the frame or a place to loop through if you want to anchor on the middle bar. That would snug the frame right up to the vest.

If you have the frame attached on the top bar with some excess webbing you could loosen the top straps when you were mounted and give your back plenty of air flow. When you decide to dismount you could reach up, grasp both ends of the webbing and cinch the frame snug back to the vest.

Either way, it might hang lower on the vest than you want. I think controlling the height relative to the vest is going to be the trick.

crashdive123
08-12-2011, 07:28 AM
Do you intend to use the pack on the frame that way? Looks like it is on the wrong side.

Rick
08-12-2011, 07:45 AM
I think it's missing the kidney pad, which would attach on the opposite side of the pack/frame as it sits. You can just see the kidney pad loop on the right side opposite the pack.

crashdive123
08-12-2011, 08:18 AM
Yep. You are probably correct.

Sourdough
08-12-2011, 09:59 AM
I have this concept in my 5.11 LBV with 6" by 10" molle pouches and 6" by 6" first aid pouches on the back. A large space blanket and 6 mill visqueen in the hydration area, molle holster and more pouches on the front. This is my back country "Mountain Biking" system. It allows for free movement, but puts the holster where I want it for cross-draw.

6831

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-12-2011, 12:47 PM
Rick, You got it, I don't want to modify the vest just attach the pack.

Crash, Rick is right the kidney pad is not on the pack yet in the pic.

Sourdough, That is what I am after mobility and modular kits.

Sourdough
08-12-2011, 01:54 PM
Sourdough, That is what I am after mobility and modular kits.

Also I wanted the stuff on my back to be close to my body, and spread out evenly, not in a pile at the bottom of a sack.

Winter
08-12-2011, 02:31 PM
CS, I modded the hell out of all my issue gear. I attached a small alice to my LBV for light infantry RTO stuff. I took it off though.

You may be able to route the alice belt through the kidney pad d-rings and get a belt pad to make it a more solid unit.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=7643&TabID=548

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-12-2011, 05:55 PM
CS, I modded the hell out of all my issue gear. I attached a small alice to my LBV for light infantry RTO stuff. I took it off though.

You may be able to route the alice belt through the kidney pad d-rings and get a belt pad to make it a more solid unit.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productID=7643&TabID=548

Yep, yep! was looking at something similar a load bearing belt.

Winter
08-12-2011, 06:00 PM
You will have to do some sewing or something though. I looked at my alice belts and they don't just break down to a single strap. Maybe a new non-issue one does or you can use 2 1/2" webbing for the belt.

Webbing is not really stiff enough. Let me look through my crap, I may have a belt that will work.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-12-2011, 06:16 PM
You will have to do some sewing or something though. I looked at my alice belts and they don't just break down to a single strap. Maybe a new non-issue one does or you can use 2 1/2" webbing for the belt.

Webbing is not really stiff enough. Let me look through my crap, I may have a belt that will work.

I have an old vietnam era belt Dad gave me with the brass clasp and the three ring eyelets all the way around, is that what is normally used, is that what you refer to as an Alice Belt? Mom had sewn 12 ga shot shell retainer out of heavy heavy elastic on it when I went on that first deer hunt with Dad? I also have some seatbelt I cut out of my old truck and dyed olive drab, I don't mind making it work. I actually enjoy making things that are one of a kind.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-12-2011, 06:23 PM
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=691379

I can never get a link to Sportsmanguide to work so I doubt it works but this is the belt I had in mind, it is actually called a duty belt.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-12-2011, 06:41 PM
Winter, Thanks for all your help, I just fitted it all up and tried it on and it isn't what I had in mind at all. Your's and others advice was sound. 2 seperate peices of gear they are meant to be.

Winter
08-12-2011, 10:08 PM
With a pistol belt, a butt pack and various pouches it may still do what you want without the ruck.

Mine, when I was doing LRS, was 48 lbs of crap. My belt had 2 3x30 mag pouches, 2 saw pouchs, 2 canteens, a buttpack, gasmask, and the vest itself.

Thing was huge and was for up to 3 days sustainment if I abandoned my ruck.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/w6f7/scan0002.jpg

That's me and it.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-12-2011, 11:12 PM
With a pistol belt, a butt pack and various pouches it may still do what you want without the ruck.

Mine, when I was doing LRS, was 48 lbs of crap. My belt had 2 3x30 mag pouches, 2 saw pouchs, 2 canteens, a buttpack, gasmask, and the vest itself.

Thing was huge and was for up to 3 days sustainment if I abandoned my ruck.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/w6f7/scan0002.jpg

That's me and it.

That is where I am going with it Winter. Might still fit the bill. I added the old belt to it, started filling the mag pouches. I have a smallish Ruck sack that might work better Added a canteen on the belt and my .22 wheel gun. Meanwhile I set up the medium Alice and frame.....the way it was meant to be and love it. It beats the carp outta my Lg. Alice and frame.

Winter
08-13-2011, 02:05 AM
Well, that and you don't need half the **** a soldier HAS to carry.

I still advice against having all your gear in one unit. It limits your movement to have all that **** hanging from you.

Your shelter determines your gear, IMO. The smaller your shelter the better. Any tent with stays is too big for movement in the lightfighter mode.

Us survival minded guys can go much lighter as we are not moving to contact and engaging "enemy" forces with the intent of destroying them all.

I'm still wrapping my gear around that major difference in logistics.

IMO, "We" need 100 +/- rounds. Shelter. Food prep capability. Water procurement. Socks. A few tools. 1st aid. Weapon and kit for it.

That's shtf packing list for me. Wilderness survival packing list is much lighter, of course. My .357 loaded with 2 speedloaders is my bush weapon for non-hunting season.

As you know, terrain dictates all things.

finallyME
09-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Here is a few ways on how I would do it.

1. If you are set on using the ruck with the frame.....Ditch the shoulder straps and back panel of the LBE. Personally I would replace the original ruck shoulder straps and kidney pad with MOLLE shoulder straps and hip belt. But, you can still use the original shoulder straps and kidney pad if you want. Then you attach the remainder of the LBE to the packs shoulder straps and hip belt. The ruck frame is meant to transfer weight to the hips. Without the proper suspension, it isn't doing it's job, and you might as well ditch it (the frame).

2. If you don't want to use the frame, but still want the ruck......buy a padded belt to attach to the pistol belt. Attach the ruck to the top of the shoulder straps of the LBE with some webbing and ladder locks. A quick release might also be more of what you want. Then attach the bottom corners of the ruck to the pistol belt with whatever means you deem the best.

3. Ditch the ruck completely and use a couple butt packs. I still recommend a padded belt for the pistol belt. Winter provided a link. You can add a big butt pack on the pistol belt, and then a smaller one on the top of the shoulder straps. Couple that with a bunch of ammo pouches, canteen pouches, and other pouches on the pistol belt, and you might get the same amount of space, just not with one big bag.

As you can tell from others, the two weren't meant to be together as one. The idea is to keep essentials on you and drop the other stuff when you hit contact. That doesn't mean you can't do it, just that it will take some tinkering.