Subdued or Bright---for kit, clothes, gear

[OhioGrizzLapp]

In my 14 pound kit (3-30 day kit), I have a mix of International Orange and subdued - green, black and tan items.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/ohiohikingstick/MVC-001S-4.jpg


I was wondering your thoughts on cutting the weight down and ommiting redundant items that are both sudued and bright and only going with one color system.

The clothes I generally wear in the 3 seasons is jeans, t-shirt, light sweater of some kind, wool socks and hiking boots all in earth tone colors.

The kit has both a bright orange tube tent as well as a military two sided olive/mylar mirror colored panel, tools and knives in both orange/subdued, small flares both night/day as well as smoke and report.

I would like to get the kit down to 10 lbs if possible by tossing redundant dual colored items but keeping main supplies of fire, knife, shelter, water, signaling, protection and food gathering.

I am not looking for a critique of what is in the kit items wise (long term use has proven this kit works for me), I am asking about the colors and should the kit be subdued or bright or the combo of both like I have it now.

[Justin Case]

That looks like a great kit,,, I can't really see the need for that derringer though ? I like the bright colors ,, seems to me if you are in need of such a kit you would be in an emergency situation and would want to do everything you could to be seen :)

[OhioGrizzLapp]

The NAA Mini Rev is there for a last ditch get out of dodge weapon, I carry it on a neck lanyard under my clothes. I would have on my hip and in my arms a S&W Model 10 .38 special and a rifle of a lever action .357 trapper length. It can also be used to dispatch trap/snare game without cutting them. I could hit them, but the 13gr diablo .22 rounds are most efficient/quiet and will not spill blood at the trap or snare location. The 38/357, I also have inserts for sub cals and the ammo on my belt, not in the kit.

Well... lets say in case of the Flu like symtom gather up of people (intern health camps)....if I hit the woods to not be gathered up, I would want to be subdued..... if it is a emergency like natural/man made disaster, I think I would want to be bright...that is why I mixed it up.

[BENESSE]

IMHO...
Keep both--subdued and bright. You never know when you'd like to be seen or when you need to fly under the radar.

[Don]

In my 14 pound kit (3-30 day kit), I have a mix of International Orange and subdued - green, black and tan items.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/ohiohikingstick/MVC-001S-4.jpg


I was wondering your thoughts on cutting the weight down and ommiting redundant items that are both sudued and bright and only going with one color system.

The clothes I generally wear in the 3 seasons is jeans, t-shirt, light sweater of some kind, wool socks and hiking boots all in earth tone colors.

The kit has both a bright orange tube tent as well as a military two sided olive/mylar mirror colored panel, tools and knives in both orange/subdued, small flares both night/day as well as smoke and report.

I would like to get the kit down to 10 lbs if possible by tossing redundant dual colored items but keeping main supplies of fire, knife, shelter, water, signaling, protection and food gathering.

I am not looking for a critique of what is in the kit items wise (long term use has proven this kit works for me), I am asking about the colors and should the kit be subdued or bright or the combo of both like I have it now.

I for one am always dropping stuff and then spend way to much time trying to find it, so bright colors make sense. I suppose it depends on wether you want to be found or stay lost what color gear you choose.

Don

[Rick]

I guess it depends on what you want to use the kit for and where you plan to be. For me, I carry subdued with no thought for bright stuff. I'm generally in Southern Indiana when I'm out and that's means I'm always within a few miles of a road. If I positively have to be seen then I have the usual whistle, flashlight, mirror stuff and I can always build a fire. My wife always knows where I'm at or the kids if the wife happens to be with me. I also carry a cell phone and a radio because some places the cell won't work. I suspect you are in a similar situation so what does the bright stuff really gain you?

If I were to travel to Alaska or the Northwest Territory then my kit might be completely different but around here I just don't see a need for bright colored stuff when the subdued will get me found just as quick if I want it to.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

No Paracord?

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Yes, paracord braided on my belt and my rifle is a paracord sling

[SARKY]

Keep the sudued stuff and lose the bright stuff.....Why? It is harder to not be seen in bright stuff than it is to be seen in subdued stuff. If you want to be found, that is what your flares, whistle, mirror. and fire starting devices are for.
On another note, that is your kit for 3-30 days??? I don't see anything to carry water, purify water, or to cook in. I don't see any/enough para(550) cord to do much good in a survival situation. Don't get me wrong, I've been out in -50 degree weather with a kit that size, just not for 3-30 days. What kind of line do you have on your fishing reel?

[hunter63]

I guess I'm not really one for coloring much of anything, at least I don't tend to go for bright colors.
If given choice of subdued vs bright orange on any one thing I would pick subdued.

Most of my kits, packs, etc are more likely used in the hunting, fishing, hiking, canoeing, 4 wheeling mode, rather than evasion, and defence.
Needs would be the same for just everyday day trips, weapons added for particular hunting use and/or defence.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0272.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0270.jpg

Larger BOB bags with trail food, hydration/clothing are a separate entity to be carried in addition to the 3 day GOOD or GHB.

Weapon of choice is for a last ditch, snake long or two legged, would be the DD .45 lc/.410 derringer, currently residing in the tackle box aboard the truck.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0533crop-1.jpg

Normally a weapon isn't carried, fishing or canoeing unless it's duck season, other than the derringer.
(note to self, check out flares for .410?, great idea!)

I do carry an small cheapy orange vest is just about every coat, jacket, vest, mostly because it's required in a lot of places I hunt, and can be a handy for being found. Orange stocking caps are also in the 'game bag section of most coats. jackets and such.

I also carry a small orange bag when forgaging is in order, can be packed, worn on belt, or deployed as needed, wish I could find another as I have worn the zipper pretty well.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/crop2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/crop4.jpg


Your kit looks well thought out, and as I seem to keep adding to mine, then go bigger, then try to thin down again....never ending.
Too bad that Whitney point blanket is so heavy to carry.........

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Something the old man taught me. When it comes to ABS Plastic, Rubber, etc. Black is stronger than the rest therefore more durable. I believe him but, do not have any science to back it up....though it does make sense.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Rick: I am leaning torwards agreeing with you so far.

Sarky: I have a Mil-cold weather canteen on my belt that also has a cup and stove. For water carry/collection, there are also three different bags there...tube tent bag, and two others as well as a condom to put in a sock if I have to. to pure... there are tablets and there is 10 feet of tinfoil there for cooking if I even use it. The para as stated above is on my belt and my rifle sling is made of para, the line on the fishing reel is Royal Bonnel 6lb and the fishing kit has 10 & 20 lb line in it 25' each. Regardless of if I had para cord or not, there is other cordage in the kit and on my person. The item below the fishing stuff is a dried sponge, that can collect dew water and trapped water in vegetation. (a note here: when our pilots were downed in 1991, the one thing they all said in debriefing was they would have liked a sponge in their survival kits so they could stay hidden and gathered water from small pools and pocketed leaves. The USA Vests now have 2 dried sponges in the kits)

I have always felt that your "KIT" is not just what is IN your kit. My belt, what is in my pockets or jacket, what I have sewn into various areas of my coat and sweater/shirt are all part of my "KIT", not just what is in the bag. My shoe/boot laces are Para, over 15' laced into my belt, my sling has to be at least 50' if not more, I did not make it, I traded for it.

My rifle stock has a small kit in it I made. Under the grips of my pistol are some essential items.

Regardless of what I have IN or OUT of my kit by way of items, It has served me very well over the years. I was just revaluating the use of Bright Vs Subdued.......

The longest I have been out with it has been 11 days on a planned trip and fared very well, as a matter of fact thrived rather than survived. I know my 5 state area very well, especially my 7 county area.... so the things in my kit may not at all work for you or others. Even in winter here, there is enough food, water, areas to be hidden or found in etc to get along for 30 days easily. I have long believed that a good knife and some way to make fire is really all you need to thrive if you know how to use them to their fullest advantage.

I do not depend on gear to get me through except for maybe the first 2-3 days, I depend on my knowledge of my areas and the FULL use of what ever gear I do take. I keep a tube tent simply because it is super light, easy to post (3-5 minutes at best) and will not waste energy trying to make a shelter that may take 2-3 hours to make correctly, although I do know quite well how to do so if needed.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Cowboy: I just looked that up cowboy and you are correct in the poly science of strength, when they add colors, they must add balance agents and the balance agents make the plastic weaker..... very good point on tools.

Hunter: Sadly, the company that made flares for guns was sued and had to go out of business and currently nobody in the USA makes them. The flares, smoke and reports I have are for the pen launcher and the single shot pistol launcher there on the bottom left. You can however fidn the flares for .410 on gunbroker going for about $12 for 5. I also know a dealer in Cali that put back a good supply and will sell them, if you want his name, just let me know. He also has 20ga, 12ga, 30-30, 30-06, 38spl, 45acp and 44 flares.....NOT TRACERS, these are actual flares.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

I often carry the Whittney in a bed rolled with a leather back, shoulder strap.

Note: Minnesota and Joanne Fabrics, have a zipper repair kits that require no swewing and you can repair on the spot, they are YKK brand and really work, I re-did my M65 field coat with one and it has lasted close to 7 years now. It was like $3.95.

LOL that Leinad (Daniel - SWD- Cobray) .45lc/.410 is a neat little gun, I have the 11 inch barreled one and also a 16" barreled one with a shoilder stock, for what they are, they work but dang the KICK LOL...

[hunter63]

Yes, the .410 does kick, wish mine had a bit bigger grip on it, kinda hard to hang on to.
Good thing it has only 2 barrels, gives you time to get the feeling back in your hand.

Doesn't pattern well over about 10 ft, but is a good close range snake gun, or rabbits in the grader ditch.

.45lc tends to keyhole at about 15 ft, so far the most usefull defence round would have to be the 3-000 buck give a 8" pattern at the dame 14ft range.
Thanks for the zipper tip, I will PM you inregards to the flares.

[hunter63]

Site for flat sponges.....Good idea.
http://www.crateandbarrel.com/kitchen-and-food/utility-cleaning/french-pop-up-sponges/f23883

[OhioGrizzLapp]

hunter, yes, that is exactly where I got the sponges...when I got em they were like $3.95.......they really do work too....and a very good kit addition.

They sell another grip for the sxs, looks kind of like a Hoage and comes with an adaptor that bolts on to the gun frame and then the grip goes on to there.

[MidWestMat]

Hunter63, that is a handy looking derringer for the box. Who makes it?

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Just my thoughts.... nothing to do with contents, solely about color.
I would think that for Signalling a single orange panel would be sufficient, preferably with Grommets at each corner. If of a decent size it Could be used as a ground cloth when not needed if material is good for that.

[Rick]

Sponges are okay if that's all you have. Otherwise they just take up room.

As for flares, you can get them in 12 gauge (red, green, white, gold or silver) as well as in .44 and .45 (red or green).

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__25/catalog__25.html

[lucznik]

Just my thoughts.... nothing to do with contents, solely about color.
I would think that for Signalling a single orange panel would be sufficient, preferably with Grommets at each corner. If of a decent size it Could be used as a ground cloth when not needed if material is good for that.

+1

Redundancy in function is (sometimes) a good thing. Redundancy for the sake of a color scheme is just extra weight.

[hunter63]

Hunter63, that is a handy looking derringer for the box. Who makes it?

Not really sure, says FMJ Ducktown, Tn on it and has a Cobray with a design on the grips.

Haven't seen them around these days had had it for approx 15 years.
Here is a little info I found on it.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223283

Made a holster for it, as doesn't fit most any other holster as it's a side by side.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0086.jpg

I may re-think my tackle box gun now I have picked up a Ruger LCR.

[SARKY]

(a note here: when our pilots were downed in 1991, the one thing they all said in debriefing was they would have liked a sponge in their survival kits so they could stay hidden and gathered water from small pools and pocketed leaves. The USA Vests now have 2 dried sponges in the kits)

Actually sponges have been in both the SV-2 (survival vest) and the seat pan kit for many years prior to 1991. What was requested was sponges in a subdued color as all the sponges previous were yellow. They are now all green or desert tan. A sponge is handy but then so is a bandana or a micro fiber wash cloth.

[rwc1969]

I like the orange for small stuff, easy to find if dropped in leaves or the like. But, I don't like orange on the outside where it will be seen while hiking etc.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

The derringer can be found on gunbroker.com as well as shotgun news.

Nice holster hunter.

Thanks for the correct info on the sponge sarky.

Poco and Luc: I am leaning to agree with you.

[hunter63]

OGL, So this kit you pictured, do you use it?, or just have it prepared for possible need.

I'm sure a lot of kits are assembled as a GOOD, GHB, BOB bag, Zombie defence bag or what have you, and are there in home, BOL, vehicles, but seldom carried on a regular basis.
I'm guessing that it is a regular carry bag.

Just curious.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Hunter, yes, that is my go to kit when I am out more than 2 days and I have used it for up to 11 days at one time with zero issues. I have a day hike kit as well that is similar but has a different bag. I wear most of my gear rather than carry it in a bag. When I go to PA where my land is, I have a small ALICE pack with more sustainable items as I do a lot of foraging, fishing and uhmmmmm protecting my "Persimmon Crops.". No matter what, that SRK knife is on my side 24/7 and a spark-lite kit in my pocket.

I know I cheat a lil with the tube tent and having a small bundle of Fat Wood, but I am getting older and setting a camp with those things just makes it easier and less energy.

I was curious, that S&W knife/hachet combo, what model is it ? My Alice pack has a small hachet in it and I had just ordered that trail hawk and got it last week. I am making some of the rec changes to it before I take it out and run it through its trials. I run almost all my equipment through a set of trials for durability and use. I have really been able to get rid of some pure junk that way. Stuff that looks good in the package and in ads and in reality they just do not stand up to real use.

I do have a bag in each car, stuff I know is good, but rarely used.

My biggest issue is meeting people that have ZERO prepped.....I do not understand them.

[hunter63]

Knife/hatchet set is sold/made? by Bullseye, have seen S&W, and other names on them, but looks like the same set.
http://www.knivesplus.com/smith-wesson-sw-bullseye.html

Got mine from Sportsman Guide for about $30 bucks, but replaced the knife with a Mora 2000 (I think, that's the number)
Didn't really care for the gut hook (?), so added the Mora w/sheath, put the plastic sheath right in the combo sheath, with one rivet to hold it in.
Also had to cut the fanny pack strap and add a buckle so as to slip the sheath, on/off.

Oh yeah, did wrap the handle w/para-cord.
Para-cord wrap, sling, or carrying some is something I would have never thought of, but all y'all seem to swear by it.

In the past, I have carried a drag rope and cordage for hauling my gun or bow up to a tree stand, and used them alot.

I'm big on stocking pockets of coats, jackets, vests, etc along with normal pants pockets, belt assessories, with at least a knife, lighter, small pack of tissue, hard candy, note book and pencil, mimium.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Good job on your kit contents Hunter. I can honestly see we, meaning you and I are of very liked minds when it comes to contents. That orange foraging bag, I have one exactly like it, cost like $2 from a Wallys I think and is a decent accessory bag to stow away.

On the flares I have in my kit, they are the military screw in flares, none are made to be shot from a standard firearm. Smith & Wesson (Federal Labs) used to have a full line of them, but they went to the wayside when the fire laws changed in a few big states like Cali/Tex and Fla.

Knife Vs. Hatchet - I find myself using my SRK more and more like a hatchet than I did my actual hatchet, so I stopped carrying one. For the rustic furniture making that I do, the least amount of tools I have to trek to the woods and back is essential, so dropping the hatchet from the kit was a huge plus.

When I do go out for more than 5 days, I will SOMETIMES bring along my 1940's era military Woodsman Pal. It is great for clearing brush and setting a camp quickly as there is a hatchet, knife, saw, hammer all in one tool and the features actually work and then serves as my fire tending tool.

After reading this thread and answers, I am probably leaning to make my kit more subdued, I have the tube tents in subdued colors rather than orange and keep the smaller items of fire, tool and such still in the orage so I can find them.

[EdD270]

My personal preference is for subdued Earth-tones, for most items. I don't like camo knives, flashlights, etc. because they are easily lost, but I don't care for bright colors, either, so mine are mostly black, which shows up surprisingly well. If you consider a situation in which you want to be seen, just throw in an orange hunting vest and stocking cap, and perhaps a signal panel.

Small, easily lost items can be colored bright and coated/protected easily by a quick dip in plastic tool-handle coating dip, available at Ace and other hardware stores, comes in orange, yellow, bright blue, etc.

Carrying two of each item, one bright and one subdued, is to me unnecessary dead weight. I'm not big on redundancy, other than for fire-starting methods/means, so I usually carry only one of an item. I'd rather not carry the weight, even after considering all the arguments in favor of redundancy. I'm going hiking/camping/hunting in the backcountry, not into combat, so don't feel a need to abide by the military philosophy in every instance. Also, it's a survival kit, intended for last-ditch worst comes to worst situations, and I will have additional gear with me when going hunting/camping/hiking that will be helpful/useful then, too.

One thing I do always carry is a pencil stubb and small spiral notebook. On outings I write down stuff I wish I had, but don't, and stuff I carried, but didn't use. Then when I get back I modify the kit. Some unused stuff, like a FAK, go along even though they're not used, hopefull won't be, but need to have just in case.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Good answer Ed, I also use the notebook as you suggested when I go to new areas. The pack I have right now does me real well in my areas. I tried using it as is up in Maine and failed miserably....I was able to get fire, shelter and water....total skunked out on food as I did not know the fauna and types of animals and their conditions of living where they are. It is funny just how different, different areas are. Nothing food wise was even remotely familure to me.

My kit is used for ALL outings, it is not just an "Emergency" kit. I use the stuff each and all outing completely as I can. The only 2 things I do not use are the tube tent and the flares/smoke signals, I learned to use them both early on.