Enlightenment about WTSHTF badly needed

[wildWoman]

Hey survivalistas, I'm a bit at loose ends here about all this ** hitting the fan stuff, people preparing some sorts of gear bags for that event and apparently planning to descend on the woods......I guess I don't get out among people enough - what is this supposed scenario? And for how long do you all expect to be living off your bug out gear? It seems to me that quite a few people must seriously expect this to happen, otherwise why plan for it?
So could you shed some light on this for me and any other ignorant souls, if there are any?

[Sarge47]

Great Post, WW. The bottomless "B.O.B." Stay tuned for my upcoming scenario on a WTSHTF thread soon!

[Sourdough]

wildWomen where have you been, you've been missed. Leaving me alone in the Golden North Vs. The invading Hordes from the South.

I am with you on this whole Bug'OutBaggie thing. But here is what I really don't understand, If they think the Sh*t is going to hit the fan.......and they think they will be safer elsewhere. Why-Tell Me WHY they don't go there now, yesterday. Maybe it is a game like Dungins and Dragons. Maybe they don't really believe things will get bad.

Rick posted a great article on the Bug-out theory. And REMY did a first class blog on this thinking. All we can do is educate the few who will hear how much work is involved in bring in 9 cords of split firewood. Or chopping a hole through the ice to get water.

[Canadian-guerilla]

what is this supposed scenario?

1 financial / economic collapse
2 Pakistan nukes - security of
3 Iran - saber-rattling
4 H5N1 - it may only be a plane flight away
5 other

IMO, # 1 seems the most likely
but just like the Iranian speedboats buzzing the US navy,
who knows what could happen in the future



And for how long do you all expect to be living off your bug out gear?

and this is the million dollar question
depending on which event is the tipping point and to what degree
for # 1, financial / economic collapse
if this were to be similar to the 1987 crash
i think north america would muddle thru and basically " keep on ticking "
but some economists are thinking things may get worse than the 29 crash

as for planning for " how long "
hope for the best, prepare for the worst

everyone has their own defination of the worst

[wildWoman]

I still don't get it....if it is "just" some sort of vague threat people are feeling, not being 100% sure what is supposed to happen, how would you be able to prepare for it? Depending on whether there would be money, transportation, groceries, hardware, health care, clean water, telecommunication etc available or not, it would call for completely different ways of dealing with it. The only way I can see that would cover all eventualities the most would be to have your own self-sufficient homestead, but it takes years to get to that point.
I don't understand this getting ready of gear and going into the woods thing, how would you be able to hide out there for more than a couple of weeks or few months, depending on what's supposed to be providing the food and clothing (actual life in the woods is very though on clothes and footwear)? That seems to me a short-term solution not really leading anywhere, why wouldn't you rather stay at home? Is this gear-packing thing more related to people feeling that they are at least doing something?
I would really like to understand this, it seems to be on so many peoples' minds here on the forum.

Hey hopeak, I've just been in the north for 10 years myself, so I feel for those down south....Yeah, you guys don't really want to come up here, nothing but a frozen wasteland that gets swamped with bugs and killer bears in the summer...decidedly weird people here and almost no towns with Starbucks and Wal-Mart...it's hell :D

[Rick]

You summed it up very nicely, Wildwoman. I don't get it either. I read on the web yesterday that some woman and her husband move to Venezuela because the U.S. dollar was going to crash. What?@!

As far as I'm concerned, it's all in the definition. TSHTF for me is a tornado that likes my home or a fire, a winter blizzard when I have to hunker down for a few days or a week. Or the meth lab they find down the street that forces me to leave for a couple of days. That's what a BOB is for.

While these Gringo's are blasting their way through Canadian Customs, and trying to track down Bambi, I'll be sitting it out, dining on the pet beagle they left behind and draining their hot water heaters for water. It won't be me fouling up your frozen wasteland.:rolleyes:

[Sourdough]

[QUOTE=Rick;20397]I read on the web yesterday that some woman and her husband move to Venezuela because the U.S. dollar was going to crash. What?@!

And I thought I was not right in the head, Leave America for Venezuela....WHAT.!!!!

[Rick]

Life After the Oil Crash Forum
Fluwiki forum
Alien-Earth forum
Stormfront forum
Zombie hunters forum
God like conspiracy forum
Sniper forum
What to do when TSHTF forum
White revolution forum
Big foot forum (even talks about the best gun to use against one):confused:
Armageddon forum
Gold forum

Anyone care to tell me which one is correct about the reason TSis going THTF?
(I really like the big foot theory. Can we go with that? ).

[Sam]

Hi everyone, I think that the B.O.B. idea and skills practice are like car insurance. It's there if you need it, but you hope you don't. At least if you prepare for WHATEVER you have more chance than most.
-Sam

[wareagle69]

i think econmic collapse is the likely culprit followed by a pandemic of some sort. i agree with preparing when i lived in arizona i took a look at what i would do fi these things happened so i decided to move back to ontario since coming back i have now purchased my 77 acre homstead and am learning to live closely with the land.
i think ppl just like to talk allot and do not realise how much work it will be to live off the land as they claim just cuz they go to camp for a week they think it will be no problem to do it full time some will prevail most will fail.
i practice what i preach, i prepare not out of fear but because i like to learn how it was done in the 1700 or 1600's w/o all this mordern conveinances that we now enjoy also out of curiosity i wonder what life would be like with 50 or more percent of the population gone could i survive is my question same as when i rode bull or was cagefighting it was more to test myself than anything so heres a big test now

am i prepared.....

always be prepared.

[crashdive123]

It all depends on "what" shtf as much as when. I prepare for where I am (North Florida with several military bases nearby, NFL football venue nearby, severe weather possiblities, as well as the economic and world situation). Many situations would cause me to stay where I am, and be well prepared to do it. Some situations may require planned evacuation or a quick BO. I am probably also a bit jaded by my past experiences (one thing I did in the military was teach shipboard anti terrorist tactics).

Bottom line is -- it depends (no, not the undergarments)

[Rick]

Oh, crashdive. You are gonna fit in here just fine. We love nothing better than having pun.

[Rick]

If there is something you fear, from public speaking to TSHTF, then you need to embrace it and learn all you can about it. Fear is often the product of not understanding something so learning all you can about it will often reduce the fear you have.

If you are concerned about an economic collapse, for example, then go to the library or go on line and pick up a book about economics. Learn about the safeguards that your bank, the Federal Reserve, the World Bank and various stock markets have in place. Don't rely on left or right wing web site opinions but find a decent book on the subject that explains it dispassionately and objectively. The same for pandemics or tsunami or whatever the subject is that you fear. You may find your concerns are unfounded or you may find that what you have learned supports your belief. Either way, you have gained valuable knowledge that you can use in your decision making.

Just some random thoughts.

[dilligaf2u2]

TDW, TGF and I all have BOB's. My idea is carry what you know you can. What we will need for a one week walk away. ER bars and water filters. Basic use survival gear.

If the car breaks down or the lights go out or If we are camping and have to walk back? Whatever the reason, if we need shelter, food, water and fire to last no more then 7 days. We have it!

I find those with the idea of long term, carry on your back, survival in the wilds, without the need for resupply, sadly funny. In my young and dumb days, I could move 120 lbs about 20 miles a day. This is without having to stop to find food or water. I have to admit I am older and I can only hope wiser. That 120 pack would be hard pressed to get to 60lbs now days.

Just how long can you expect to live off the land on 60 or 120 pounds of gear?

Don

[Rick]

I'm positive of one thing. A 60 pound pack would be in the back of the truck!:D

[Beo]

I carry no more than about 15 to 20 pounds of gear into the woods for short or long treks, short treks being a three day weekend and long treks being up to a month. I can live off of this for a long time. New Thread coming yeeeeeeeeeah!

[Canadian-guerilla]

I find those with the idea of long term, carry on your back, survival in the wilds, without the need for resupply, sadly funny. In my young and dumb days, I could move 120 lbs about 20 miles a day. This is without having to stop to find food or water. I have to admit I am older and I can only hope wiser. That 120 pack would be hard pressed to get to 60lbs now days.

Just how long can you expect to live off the land on 60 or 120 pounds of gear?

Don

a pretty good article here just with that line of thought

Backpack Survival (http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/backpackfever.htm)

[Boker]

a pretty good article here just with that line of thought

Backpack Survival (http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/backpackfever.htm)

Excellent article. Gives a person a lot to think about.

[canid]

preparation for me is a desire to be able to maintain such things as drinking water in the event of a water service interruption to lighting my home in the event of a power failure, even rolling blackouts [i'm working on a DC generator right now for a wind turbine] to storing extra food and gardening for when money gets tight. the spirit of survival for me is in interest in being able to do it all, to know how.

i'm intellectually fascinated in the idea of S Hing the F but my desire to be flexible and adapting to emergency, be self reliant/sufficient is more a general personality inclination towards doing things my own way and on my terms. it probably helps in some capacity to give me a sense of greater control of my life and lifestyle.

[Rick]

Along with the lowering of interest rates, the Fed announced today they will be introducing new currency designed to be printed from your computer. You heard it here first, folks. I think this economic thing is finally under control.

http://wjwelch.googlepages.com/One-Schrute-Buck.jpg/One-Schrute-Buck-full.jpg

[nell67]

Now that IS scary,and they have spent all that time and money trying to stop people from doing just that!

[Beo]

20 lbs for a month? Are you taking food? What time of year, and what climate? I carry 20lbs for a week, but I'm a big guy and can handle it. An 80lb ruck when I was in the military was like home. Is everything you're using coming out of an ultralight catalog?
Yeah this is all I carry, go to the thread: Your Gear and check out what I carry, that is basically all. I too was in the military (Army) and carried a huge 80 pound ruck, but I don't take a sleeping bag and shovel or most of the gear I carried in the army. Check out the thread. Actually been off the site for a while, me and three friends did a week trek and it was 20 degrees to 10 degrees and that is what I took. Its all about mindset, been treking lite for a long time now. If we had more snow then I'd of took my snowshoes.

[Beo]

Never mind here's the gear I alawys pack:
My gear for all this consists of:
Hat: French Cap (TUQUE, blue)
Shirt: Cotton Hunting Shirt 3each
Leggings: Wool (Dark blue trimmed in yellow), long Canvas gaiters (Brown)
Garters: Hand Woven & Leather Strap Type
Sash: Hand Woven
Breechclout: Wool, Dark blue trimmed in yellow & deer hide
Breeches: French Button Fly 2 pair
Moccasins: Dark Brown Ligonier Moc by Arrow Moccasin's
Wool Gloves (Fingerless inside of mittens)
Haversack or Snapsack: Canvas with 36-inch tumpline with the following items inside:extra leather thongs (36in. long 10 each), Tin Cup (2) Castile Soap (2) Candle (3) Sewing & fishing kit, Whetstone, Bag of parched corn & jerky, Tea Block, Pouch of tobacco and pipe, Patch knife, Forged fork & Spoon, Tin Boiler, salt and herb horn.
Possibles Bag: Leather, holding the following items inside: Frizzen Stall,1-Bullet Bag holding 20 .62 cal. round ball, 1-Cow’s Knee, 1-Priming Horn, Leather Flint Packet (5 pieces of flint), 1-Tin of bees wax & tallow, 1-Hand Forged Screwdriver, Bag of tow, Loading block (tied to strap of possibles bag), Vent Pick & Brush, Pouch with different ramrod tips, tow strips, & paper cartridges (10 each), and extra springs.
Belt Pouch: Holding the following items: Flint striker & char cloth, cattail fluff, dried moss, and bark tinder in tin, Candle (2)
Powder Horn tied to hunting pouch strap
Long Knife (8 to 10 inch blade)
Hatchet/Tomahawk w/cover
Flintlock: French Fusil de Chasse (Tulle) with flashguard
Bedroll: Canvas Diamond shelter (waterproofed 10x10)
Wool blanket (4x6) not used in summer months
Canvas ground cloth (waterproofed 4x5)
The diamond shelter is laid out flat with ends folded in, ground cloth is folded to fit next, then the wool blanket (if needed) and rolled tightly and tied with two leather straps, the leather shoulder strap is used as a tumpline (shoulder strap as we call it).
Canteen: Round Gourd Canteen w/ leather strap
This is what I carry for up to month, my son the same but the cups are split between us. We always go primitive so this may not seem like much to most but I have used this set up for years and am very comfortable with it. Every once in a while I throw in a hunk of salted meat or bacon.

[Beo]

Squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, etc. small game a plenty here. You'd be surprised how little one can eat and still be able to do what is needed. We call these a Starvation Scout, some of the guys fish, I don't do fish. With all the survivalist and outdoors spoofs running amuck on this site you don't think someone could live off the land for a month? Come on, it was done in the "old days" it can be done now, you just have to be able and willing to live without the luxury's you have now. We don't take anything from the 20th Century with us, 1750s to 1780s is all that is allowed this is called Historical Trekking. For some this is hard, for some not so bad, it takes practice and the right mind set. You can't leave the modern world behind and go primitive (only so much prim. the way I go) unless you spend at least three days without modern equipment, I believe it takes at least that long to wind down and learn to use what you take. Like I said it is pretty much a "Bare Necessities" thing and gotta wanna do it.
Oh, Remy read some of your blogs... great stuff bro, very interesting and true.

[Beo]

Also we have some people here that live off the grid or as I like to say "live on their own hook". WarEagle and Native Dude do it everyday of their lives, you can't do it for a week or month? You have the ability to return to what you see as living with comfort while they live in comfort in the wilds by hacking it out with their bare hands, life is comfortable for them from what I gather on here, and they like it. You should be able to do at least a month with out "comforts" as you see them, or why are you here.

[Daren]

Beowulf,
I love the flip top wool gloves/mittens. Easy access to your fingers when needed without exposing your whole hand. I keep a pair in each vehicle and a couple pairs in the house.

[Rick]

You should be able to do at least a month with out "comforts" as you see them, or why are you here.

Hmmm. I guess I don't see it that way. I won't do a month (or if I do something is terribly wrong). Being able to spend time outdoors is something to be cherished, in my way of thinking, and not some endurance test I have to perform. I'm not knocking you or what you do. If you enjoy that then more power to you. But my goal isn't to see how long I can stay out. It's to stay out long enough to keep my skills sharp and be able to pass those skill sets on to my kids and, eventually, my grandkids. I focus on one set at a time and it only takes a day or two to do that.

[canid]

i wouldn' do a month without basic comforts. on the other hand, i'm willing to be comfortable with my needs met and some variety or other of diversion.

at one time i lived 9 months in washington state in a 3 walled pigshed. had everything i needed and plenty to do. i was completely happy.

take away one or more of those needs or the things i occupied my time with and i would have been miserable, so i try to stay mindful of what my needs are flexible in how i meet them. i have little trouble occupying myself, especially if it helps meet my needs.

[Sourdough]

I think the question is...what do you eat for a month ?

Spam or Bacon, egg's, homefries or pancakes, coffee for breakfast.

Sandwich's, Cheese, cookies for lunch

4 to 6 candy bars per day

Dinner is dependent on had spawned-out. Hard day, drag-butt into camp: eat a large can of peaches, or anything easy, and get to bed, exausted.

Back early or spend the whole day in camp, anything you can think of for dinner.

6,000 to 7,500 calories per day, or more.

We get resupplied every 10 days or so. Generally out for up to 95 days in the fall and 18 to 30 day in the spring.

[Rick]

Well, okay, Hopeak!!!! I repacked the bags. I ain't gonna like that privy without the door but at least we'll eat well. I'm on my way!!!!!

[Beo]

Squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, berrys, and such make for a fine meal and give plenty of calories and keep me nurished. I don't do a lot of month long treks but have done a few, do it not to prove anything to anyone but because it gives me insight into how it was done along time ago (250 years or so) and being a "living historian" as they say it gets me somewhat into the mindset they were in (minus the hostile Indians) plus it gives me a chance to put my skills to work for a longer period of time than a weekend or week.
In July my son and I go on a two week Canoe Trek from Quebeck Canada down into Pennsylvania and we're going to try and push it into W.Virginia. On these types of treks you "live off your own hook" hunting your food and making camp along the way, all done in the 1750s to 1780s style. Just my thing I guess, but its great to see the scenery and trek the passages and waterways of woodsmen from so long ago.

[tracks]

WILDWOMAN, Check out the nuclear plant situation in North and South Carolina.The drought in this area may cause the plants to be shut down for lack of water. the powers that be say it would'nt cause any BLACK OUTS but would cause dramatic cost increses in power cost to consumers..If we don't need them why are we running them is the first ? but what if the powers that be were lieing to us , not that they would or any thing. would you take that chance?

[Rick]

Beo - Do you ever have any problems with Game Wardens? Snaring and hunting out of season are pretty much frowned on and I don't do it because of that (although I'd love to). I'd be surprised if they considered that "survival" but maybe they do.

[Beo]

Hunting in Ohio isn't too bad for residents.
Coyote and Wild Boar, no closed season, bag limit none.
Squirrel Hunting: Sept 1st to Oct 31st (Special Permit for off season hunting available for specific hunting) Daily bag limit is 6. Gray, red, fox, and black squirrels can be taken. Hours are 1/2 hour before sunrise to sunset.
Rabbit (no snow shoe hair hunting at all in ohio): Nov. to Feb. 29th bag limit 4per day. Special Permit for open season may be aquired thru ODNR.
Mourning Dove, Ruffed Grouse, Ringneck Pheasant, Bobwhite Quail: Sept. 1st to Feb. 29 and special season April thru July bag limit 3 per day.
Wild Turkey: Spring-April 5th to May 28th
Wild Turkey: Fall-Oct 13th to Nov 29th
Deer: Sept. 29 to Feb 3rd for archery, Muzzleloader Oct 1 to 31, Gun Season Nov 26 to Dec. 16th, Muzzleloader again on Dec 27 to 30th. Special permits may be aquired for special situations.
Waterfowl: Oct. 20th to Jan. 27th bag limit ducks 6 per day (12 after opening day) Coots 15 per day, Mergansers 5 per day (10 after opening day)
So there is always meat to be had in Ohio and being a Deputy Sheriff helps me get the permits I need for just about all year round hunting, plus on family owned land I don't need squat just a tag for the game. With the organization I am a member of for Historical Trekking we get special grants and permits for hunting small game such as rabbit, squirrel, wild turkey, for certain historical treks (see thats why its not just hiking:D
Game Wardens don't say much as long as you got your papers on you, and I know the game wardens for Hamilton, Butler, Warren, and Clermont counties real well so we get no fuss from them. Note the "Special Permits" I can usually get these fairly easily, kick back for being a cop I guess, but it lets me do what I want.

[Rick]

Thanks for the info!! That is really interesting. I don't think Indiana has an off season or open season permit program but I will check into that. How do you plan to cover yourself for permits on the trek you and your son are taking? Also, what do you plan to hunt or trap with?

This is something (game foraging) I've never done much of because of the legalities involved. Probably no worry at all if you live in the back country but a consideration here in the Midwest.

[Beo]

The canoe trek this year is granted for small game using flintlock no bigger than .32 or .35 caliber for squirrel and rabbit along the St. Lawrence river and adjoining rivers of the trek, only trek is you can't be within 100yards of any homes, dwellings, or out buildings. Still that leaves alot of area for hunting.
The North American Historical Trekkers Society has a very good relationship in both the U.S. and Canada and doesn't seem to have have too many problems getting permits, the trip alone has a cost of $150.00 for each person that will be a food source hunter, and $75.00 for the others.

[Rick]

That's pretty slick. I know you two will have a great time. I wish you good hunting and no problems!!

[Beo]

No matter what I'm sure there will be a snafu somewhere along the line, we just adapt and overcome it, thanks.