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View Full Version : Long term survival camping in the National parks



Bill Walker
02-01-2011, 03:58 PM
Hello,
I am planning on taking a refresher 6 day course on survival in the wilderness around May. Afterwards I will be attemping to stay long term (months) in the Wayne National Forest. Anyone have any words of wisdom, I will be probably around Corning, Ohio.

Thanks Bill

klkak
02-01-2011, 04:01 PM
Could someone please tell me what "Survival Camping" is!

Sourdough
02-01-2011, 04:16 PM
Question: Do you KNOW the difference between a NATIONAL Forest & a NATIONAL Park..............?

I have been Long term camping continuously in the Chugach National Forest for the last eleven (11) years.

Rick
02-01-2011, 04:44 PM
Why not camp over at our Introduction section and tell us about yourself? You could be 12 for all we know (no offense to 12 year olds).

What you plan on doing is illegal. You can only camp for 14 days in Wayne National Forest. That is true for more national forests.

"Primitive Camping is allowed on NF land away from developed campgrounds and anywhere that your camping equipment and/or vehicle do not block developed trails or road right-of-ways. Plan to bring enough drinking water for the duration of your stay. Leave a clean campsite by packing out all refuse. There is no charge for primitive camping, although a 14 day limitation is in effect. It is not normally necessary to check in with the Forest Service. However, groups larger than 25 people require a permit and prior coordination is required."


Besides, you'll never make it months. Good luck, though.

klkak
02-01-2011, 06:23 PM
I went camping for 240 months one time. It started with someone shaving my head. Oh wait, thats when I enlisted. Never mind!

klkak
02-01-2011, 06:28 PM
Now would someone please tell me what "Survival camping" is!!!

Pocomoonskyeyes3
02-01-2011, 06:33 PM
Now would someone please tell me what "Survival camping" is!!!
Purely a guess.... Long term "camping" in as primitive a way as possible. Kind of like being homeless, but in the woods instead of the city. That would be my best guess.

Sourdough
02-01-2011, 06:49 PM
Now would someone please tell me what "Survival camping" is!!!

If you are 14 years old and you want to impress a girl, you tell her you are going survival camping.

Camp10
02-01-2011, 06:59 PM
Now would someone please tell me what "Survival camping" is!!!

Oh, thats an easy one...it's when you take your wife camping and your girlfriend is in the next site over!

JPGreco
02-01-2011, 07:03 PM
My guess would be that survival camping is any camping where you successfully survive and come home.

As Rick said, the better question is whether the OP has gotten special permission to stay in a national park that long or will be tresspassing. Most, if not all, have limits on how many consecutive days a person can stay in the park.

Trabitha
02-01-2011, 07:07 PM
Hello,
I am planning on taking a refresher 6 day course on survival in the wilderness around May. Afterwards I will be attemping to stay long term (months) in the Wayne National Forest. Anyone have any words of wisdom, I will be probably around Corning, Ohio.

Thanks Bill

I was given the impression that you can't do that without making sure that forestry was aware that you were there, where you would be, and have a permit to have any kind of fire. I would make sure you look into that before making any kind of plans. Not only would I hate for a forest to be burned down, but it would really suck if you got picked up by a ranger for vagrancy or something. Have fun though! We're going to go for a long weekend up near the PA Grand Canyon in May. ;)

BENESSE
02-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Oh...and if you hear banjo music, run the other way.

crashdive123
02-01-2011, 07:23 PM
Hello,
I am planning on taking a refresher 6 day course on survival in the wilderness around May. Afterwards I will be attemping to stay long term (months) in the Wayne National Forest. Anyone have any words of wisdom, I will be probably around Corning, Ohio.

Thanks Bill

A few questions for you Bill. What is your experience level? What has been the nature of your training? Why the need for refresher training? Have you looked at the rules and regs for Wayne National Forest? What gear will you be taking? What is your experience of foraging for wild edible plants? What is your experience with taking small game? Will you be staying in one location or moving around the forest? You've requested words of wisdom, but have not given us any starting reference point to give you meaningful advice. Fill in some of the blanks about you and your plans, and then maybe we can offer you something helpful.

The word survival gets piggybacked onto so many words nowadays without much thought or meaning - just seems to be the word du jour. Survival knife, survival rifle, survival camping, survival hiking, survival food, survival........ad nauseum. When you say survival camping what do you mean?

BH51
02-01-2011, 07:46 PM
Sounds like you may have to revise your long-term plan, Bill...
Let us know how your 6-day'er went..........................BH51

Justin Case
02-01-2011, 08:43 PM
"Survival Camping " means a bear didn't eat ya !

JPGreco
02-01-2011, 10:35 PM
I'm going survival surviving tomorrow.

Winter
02-01-2011, 11:04 PM
Survival Camping is going camping , on purpose, with not enough supplies. IMO

I've done this a few times, it's fun.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
02-01-2011, 11:32 PM
Why is it always a National Forest? I can drop you off in the swamp and nonone will care you are there....

mosquitomountainman
02-01-2011, 11:50 PM
...What you plan on doing is illegal. You can only camp for 14 days in Wayne National Forest. That is true for more national forests.

"Primitive Camping is allowed on NF land away from developed campgrounds and anywhere that your camping equipment and/or vehicle do not block developed trails or road right-of-ways. Plan to bring enough drinking water for the duration of your stay. Leave a clean campsite by packing out all refuse. There is no charge for primitive camping, although a 14 day limitation is in effect. It is not normally necessary to check in with the Forest Service. However, groups larger than 25 people require a permit and prior coordination is required. ...

Is that 14 days in the national forest or 14 day limit in the campground? Here the limit is for staying at a NF campground. You can bum around all year in the forest as long as you don't spend over 14 days at any single campground.

Sarge47
02-02-2011, 12:05 AM
Hello,
I am planning on taking a refresher 6 day course on survival in the wilderness around May. Afterwards I will be attemping to stay long term (months) in the Wayne National Forest. Anyone have any words of wisdom, I will be probably around Corning, Ohio.

Thanks Bill
Well Bill, giving the lack of info & intro you failed to provide I ran a background check on your IP. It says that your using a corporate account out of Monroe County Florida, near or in Miami. Why the big secret, are you afraid we might discover something bogus about you? :sneaky2: :detective: BTW, I've notified the Rangers at the Wayne National Forest about your impending long term stay & they promised that no matter what happens, to make sure that you have a nice warm place to stay with hot food...however they didn't know who your cellmates might be. :scared: :innocent:

shiftyer1
02-02-2011, 12:18 AM
changed my mind.......

Rick
02-02-2011, 10:11 AM
MMM - As I understand it, you can't camp anywhere in a national forest for over 14 days. You can certainly make use of the forest, hiking, etc., every day of the year. They just don't want you living there.

hunter63
02-02-2011, 11:25 AM
I'm going survival surviving tomorrow.

LOL,....Now thats funny, I don't care who you are.........LOL

finallyME
02-02-2011, 11:42 AM
Is that 14 days in the national forest or 14 day limit in the campground? Here the limit is for staying at a NF campground. You can bum around all year in the forest as long as you don't spend over 14 days at any single campground.

This is the way I understand the 14 day limit. It is 14 days in one spot. You can stay in the National Forest as long as you want, you just can't stay in one campsite for more than 14 days. You also have to follow LNT. Hunting is restricted by state laws and you will need to know them and have the proper permits/licenses.

Rick
02-02-2011, 12:27 PM
That is not correct, FM. It's 14 days in a given period. Some places are 21 days and some are more depending on the property. This one happens to be for Hoosier:

"Campers may stay up to 14 consecutive days within a 21-day period. Campers may not stay on the Forest in excess of 30 days total in a calendar year."

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recreation/rules_and_regulations.htm

Here is Nez Perce:

CAMPING by any person or group, or the placement of camping equipment in any area excluding developed campgrounds, is restricted to 18 days use during any 45 day period. For the purpose of this restriction, an area is defined as any given spot of ground and the surrounding land for a radius of 5 miles. [Title 36 CFR 261.53(f)]
DEVELOPED CAMPGROUNDS stay limit is 14 days and will remain in effect as such. [Title 36 CFR 261.58(a)]


http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjAwhwtDDw9_AI8zPyhQ oY6BdkOyoCAGixyPg!/?ss=110117&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=STELPRDB5203834&navid=120000000000000&position=Notices*&ttype=detail&pname=Nez%20Perce%20National%20Forest-%20Alerts%20&%20Notices

kyratshooter
02-02-2011, 12:28 PM
Want to survival Camp?

On the roadside from Florida to Ohio is a little pathway called the Appalachion Trail. You can hike it year around and hoof it between shelters for little 8-10 mile fun runs. The section between lake Fontania and the Pisquia National forest is a famous survival hiking route of 70 miles without road access or resupply.

You will draw no attention for being on the trail and without visible means of income or for being slightly deranged, since most through hikers are in that state by their third week.

You will actually draw more positive reaction from the AT hike than from your "survival camping" due to most people having positive association to backpacking and rather negitive reactions to anything with the word "Survival" attached to it. They will even count the hike as a plus on your resume if you apply at Cabellas, Gander Mountain or REI. Just try putting "dedicated and experienced survivalist" on your app and see where it gets you.

You may also get a leave of absence from your day job if you go to the AT, where survival camping will get you a "will not rehire" flagg at most corperate structures.

Are you really a kid that lives with one parent in Florida in the winter and the other parent in Ohio in the summer? You planning on skipping out on custodial oversight?

Does your mom know you are on the computer?

Rick
02-02-2011, 12:30 PM
KY, I think you should institute plan B and duct tape his keyboard.

mosquitomountainman
02-02-2011, 01:34 PM
... "Campers may stay up to 14 consecutive days within a 21-day period. Campers may not stay on the Forest in excess of 30 days total in a calendar year."...

I called the local Forset Service office and the stay limit at an established campground is 14 days. After that 14 days you can move to another campground for another 14 days max. If they stay shorter times at different campgrounds in the Kootenai Nat. Forest the maximum length of time they can camp in one "season" is 30 days. Maximum time allowed for backpack or primitive camping on the KNF is also 30 days. However, if you then go to the adjoining Flathead National Forest you start over with new time limits, etc. so if a person wanted to keep moving you could in theory spend a year or more on national forest lands. She did say that some regulations vary between national forests. The 14 day limit at an established campground seems pretty consistent though.

Of course here you also have state forests, BLM lands, National Park Service, and timber company lands. They all tend to follow NF guidelines but a person would need to check each one to be sure.

Rick
02-02-2011, 01:40 PM
We have the same here except the timber company land is called corn. It's a bit precarious camping there, however, especially late in the season. Combines can do a number on a tent.

finallyME
02-02-2011, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the info Rick. Looks like the specifics are different for each NF.

LowKey
02-02-2011, 07:42 PM
6 day refresher course in May. Hmm... sounds like Tom B's place, where there've been people who claim to have lived for months in National Parks. For all I know, they have. Doesn't make it legal.

Guess you guys didn't give the OP what he was looking for, an atta boy, and he didn't come back.
Bet he got some goooood advice on other forums...LOL.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
02-02-2011, 08:00 PM
If anyone really wanted to do a long stay in the wilderness...I can arrange it for you in a SC Swamp!

JPGreco
02-02-2011, 08:51 PM
I guess you guys get a lot of that here, one random vague question and then nothing huh?

Cowboy, I may have to take you up on that so I can search for the swamp ape.

BENESSE
02-02-2011, 09:40 PM
Vague numpty questions are like live bait here. Fun for the whole family.

2dumb2kwit
02-02-2011, 09:50 PM
I guess you guys get a lot of that here, one random vague question and then nothing huh?

Cowboy, I may have to take you up on that so I can search for the swamp ape.

I think cowboy is a swamp ape.
(snicker, snicker):laugh:

JPGreco
02-02-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm going survival surviving tomorrow.

and incase anyone was wondering, I did survive my attempt at survival surviving today.

crashdive123
02-02-2011, 10:03 PM
and incase anyone was wondering, I did survive my attempt at survival surviving today.

Probably due to your enhanced understanding of a GHB.:innocent:

JPGreco
02-02-2011, 10:09 PM
ouch.... lol

Batch
02-02-2011, 11:12 PM
Folks spend six months in Big Cypress. The rangers will occasionally ask and the guys know how to respond. There is folks been camping for months out there for years and the rangers know they are out there for 6 months a year. They are looking for vagrants. There are guys in the established camps that are known to all. They'll live down here and then go gold pan in Alaska for the rest of the year. Part of the woods to me.

Last time we were out there was a white rasta guy with an incredible cool little kid out there. His wife left him because he moved them out to Bear Island. This guy needs the boot. But, retired folks who are playing the weather... They make great camp guests.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
02-03-2011, 06:47 AM
I think cowboy is a swamp ape.
(snicker, snicker):laugh:

I resemble that comment 2 dumb! Tell you what, my last pics didn't turn out so I'll do a special for you guys next time I get out!

Rick
02-03-2011, 08:40 AM
Nah. He can't be a swamp ape. His daughter is too cute.

BENESSE
02-03-2011, 08:49 AM
Unh huh...

DOGMAN
02-03-2011, 11:15 AM
around here (outside of the Nat'l Park) the rangers will let you camp in the same areas very long term- as long as your not desturbing stuff and utilizing the resources....so, "survival campers" they run-off. People with campers that work seasonally in the park and local tourist businesses they dont bother....they usually use those people as their eyes/informants for keeping an eye on people abusing the resources...

klkak
02-03-2011, 05:08 PM
I resemble that comment 2 dumb! Tell you what, my last pics didn't turn out so I'll do a special for you guys next time I get out!

Get out of what: The dog house, Jail, Psych ward?

finallyME
02-03-2011, 06:21 PM
There is folks been camping for months out there for years

Now there is a quote!

finallyME
02-03-2011, 06:23 PM
around here (outside of the Nat'l Park) the rangers will let you camp in the same areas very long term- as long as your not desturbing stuff and utilizing the resources....so, "survival campers" they run-off. People with campers that work seasonally in the park and local tourist businesses they dont bother....they usually use those people as their eyes/informants for keeping an eye on people abusing the resources...

The sheepherders would fall in to this as well. They also know where all the elk are.

Sarge47
02-03-2011, 06:34 PM
Humpty Numpty posted a thread,
But Humpty Numpty didn't use his head.
He only posted a single post.
Then beat feet before he became toast!

BURMA SHAVE. :2:

BENESSE
02-03-2011, 06:58 PM
Burma Shave is a classic!!! LOVE those billboards! It's advertising at its best.

crashdive123
02-03-2011, 07:02 PM
Burma Shave is a classic!!! LOVE those billboards! It's advertising at its best.

You've gotta like a company that is so proud of their marketing that they archive them for you. http://burma-shave.org/jingles/

Rick
02-03-2011, 07:07 PM
(Sigh) I can actually remember seeing those. I remember barn paintings, too. (double sigh).

COWBOYSURVIVAL
02-03-2011, 07:11 PM
Sometimes doghouse would fit but for, now I just meant get outside! I have been working alot. Klak I'd invite you but, from what I gather you and H2O don't mix very well.

Sarge47
02-04-2011, 12:36 AM
When a nice survival knife, lights up like the sky, that's a Mora...!

To quote the late Jimmy Durante: "I've got a million of 'em!" :lol:

Batch
02-06-2011, 10:58 PM
Now there is a quote!

LOL, I don't know why I don't proof read all the time!

There are people that come down and stay in national parks for months at a time. They do this year after year...

kyratshooter
02-06-2011, 11:03 PM
Nah. He can't be a swamp ape. His daughter is too cute.

Up here in KY they got a swamp beast that runs out of the woods and snatches up cute youngun's by their belt loops and runs off with 'em.

Mayhaps the cute one he got that way. Only way I can figure it could happen, I've seen his pictures!

Survival Guy 10
02-17-2011, 10:40 PM
Why not camp over at our Introduction section and tell us about yourself? You could be 12 for all we know (no offense to 12 year olds).

What you plan on doing is illegal. You can only camp for 14 days in Wayne National Forest. That is true for more national forests.

"Primitive Camping is allowed on NF land away from developed campgrounds and anywhere that your camping equipment and/or vehicle do not block developed trails or road right-of-ways. Plan to bring enough drinking water for the duration of your stay. Leave a clean campsite by packing out all refuse. There is no charge for primitive camping, although a 14 day limitation is in effect. It is not normally necessary to check in with the Forest Service. However, groups larger than 25 people require a permit and prior coordination is required."


Besides, you'll never make it months. Good luck, though.

i knew an intro pun was coming i love to see these hillarious

Rick
02-18-2011, 07:54 AM
I do two shows nightly. 7 and 9.

hunter63
02-18-2011, 12:30 PM
I do two shows nightly. 7 and 9.

Oh, The early show for seniors?

TeToN
02-18-2011, 08:52 PM
I work for the NPS, and I can tell you that we will all be far too busy with our own problems to worry about if you have over-extended your stay. Especially if you are taking care of the resource and not making a mess of things.

Justin Case
02-18-2011, 08:54 PM
I work for the NPS, and I can tell you that we will all be far too busy with our own problems to worry about if you have over-extended your stay. Especially if you are taking care of the resource and not making a mess of things.

what problems ? curious :)

crashdive123
02-18-2011, 08:54 PM
I work for the NPS, and I can tell you that we will all be far too busy with our own problems to worry about if you have over-extended your stay. Especially if you are taking care of the resource and not making a mess of things.

I know you're busy, but when you find a little time how about dropping by our Introduction section and telling us a bit about yourself. Thanks.

TeToN
02-18-2011, 10:03 PM
what problems ? curious :)

I was speaking in terms of if the SHTF.. Same problems as everyone else! ;)

TeToN
02-18-2011, 10:04 PM
will do when I'm working with a fresh brain

klkak
02-18-2011, 10:24 PM
LOL, I don't know why I don't proof read all the time!

There are people that come down and stay in national parks for months at a time. They do this year after year...

They are called "Camp Hosts"

Batch
02-24-2011, 10:37 PM
They are called "Camp Hosts"

I think these guys are different. They have a couple that volunteers (camp hosts) at Bear Island. They have an RV pad with a utility hook up. At the main camp where most of the "regular long term campers" stay you'll find a fire ring and some have a picnic table.

Then you have guys like old man John from Michigan. He just comes down and sets up camp in an old RV that he tows a trailer with some extra gear and a 4X4 Suzuki Samurai. He just stays there. He has to deal with any rangers that come around. Then there are quite a few others out there that stay for months and come back on regular basis.

I googled "big cypress bear island" and found a picture of L to R: John, a teacher from Fort Lauderdale ( I can't remember her name), and I think the other guy is named Bob. We don't stay in the main Bear island camp much. But, I think John has spent ever winter and spring out there since around 2000 or 2001. He is one of a handful of long term campers who are not vagrants. There are those that camp out there that are basically homeless. John owns a home in Michigan which he uses to collect his mail. LOL

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/tombuttle/9/1235230380/tpod.html#_