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endtimes
01-20-2011, 03:47 PM
I am looking to find out how deep one would have to be not need a fire? How might the entrances be concealed, (including air shafts).

Thanks

Ben

Winter
01-20-2011, 03:55 PM
It depends on where you are. Drill a hole 20' deep and test it out.


Entrances can be stumps counter weighted. Vent's can be concealed by making them look like trees/saplings.

Rick
01-20-2011, 04:08 PM
Winter is correct on his location comment. Some places would still require some means of warmth. Just about anywhere, except where there is permafrost, once you get down six feet the temperature will be anywhere from around 45F to 75F depending latitude. Around here it's around 58F.

EDIT: Egads. Typo. That should have been 58F around here. Sorry.

kyratshooter
01-20-2011, 04:43 PM
It will vary due to your local climate.

Check out the temps of local caves. That will be an indicator.

In my area it is 53 degreesF. You only need to go down about 6-8 feet to reach this temp in my location.

This means that in my area you would need some type of heat even inside the cave/bunker shelter if nothing more than to knock the chill off. You could survive, but you would not be "warm".

In my area the biggist problem is the water table. You can get underground and reach stable temp but you will leech water into the shelter. You absolutely must get above ground level and have proper drainage for underground habitation.

crashdive123
01-20-2011, 04:43 PM
What type of shelter? Intended use? Length of stay?

JPGreco
01-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Um, pretty much unless you dig one hell of a hole or have ample ventilation, I would recommend NOT having a fire inside an enclosed space.

hunter63
01-21-2011, 10:20 AM
I can still remember the "Bomb shelters" of the cold war era, couple of families built them back in the late 50's and early 60's.
Plans were available from the Civil Defence people.
Actually the one I was in (friend's family) was kinda coll back then, and over the years was used as a "fruit cellar" for storing produce and such.

As you really didn't get real deep into uses, or location, so I kinda guessing here, but I would think that there must still be all kinds of info still out there.
One site that popped up was:
http://www.undergroundbombshelter.com/

Yeah, they all want to sell you something, it seems but still a lot of good basic info.

Here is a site for ground temps averages, geo-thermo people look into this when planing systems.

http://www.geo4va.vt.edu/A1/A1.htm
Maybe a little more back ground would helpful to direct you?

Old GI
01-21-2011, 11:45 AM
Fiberglass, underground shelters are being sold, complete with air tube that barely reaches above ground. During my stint as a FL panhandle EM Director, I locked horns with the manufacturer and distributors over the dangers involved. Flooding will probably exceed the 4 inch airshaft height. Also, I asked them to warn their customers to advise local fire departments of the location so they could be rescued when tree fell on it. I didn't have much success. Just some things to think about.

roar-k
01-21-2011, 11:49 AM
Fiberglass, underground shelters are being sold, complete with air tube that barely reaches above ground. During my stint as a FL panhandle EM Director, I locked horns with the manufacturer and distributors over the dangers involved. Flooding will probably exceed the 4 inch airshaft height. Also, I asked them to warn their customers to advise local fire departments of the location so they could be rescued when tree fell on it. I didn't have much success. Just some things to think about.

The airs shaft was seriously that small?

kyratshooter
01-21-2011, 12:09 PM
Many of these units are for the Rambo types and lean more toward security than survivability. They are bunkers rather than shelters. Space is always a premium and there is absolutely zero storage space in the shelter, where you need it. In reality 3/4 of your space should be for food and water.

Every underground shelter in my area has a problem with radon gas. Even basements and garages below grade level have it. You must have adequite ventelation

Rick
01-21-2011, 04:21 PM
Here again, purpose needs to be stated. We have a lot of underground shelters in the Midwest and most are for tornado safety. They are fiberglass and can be anchored pretty well even in shallow water tables. Many have extended wings that help anchor them in place. I do agree with Old GI about the door. Almost all that I've seen and looked at open outward. The best method is a sliding door. That way debris doesn't hold it closed. For the most part the stay in one is under an hour so ventilation and long term storage isn't that big of an issue. My cousin installed one and I discussed the sliding door with him. He told me his cell phone would be just fine. Okay by me since I'm not down there.

Radon can always be a problem with stone whether man made or natural. Good call, KY.

Provide us some data if you want a more complete answer.

Beans
01-24-2011, 02:27 AM
We had a "root Celler" when I was growing up. It was about 6 ft deep. 6 feet wide and 10 feet long. with a stair well leading down into it. It was in the yard away from the house and large trees. We store our canned goods in it and used it as a shelter for cyclones and tornadoes. Yes we spent a few hours down there during the bad stormy weather.

I can rememeber going down into it during the winter to fetch something for supper (dinner) and it was quite warm. Stored potatoes didn't freeze, the fruit jars didn't pop their lids and it was cool in the summer.