Who Will Do Well If TSHTF?

[RBB]

I've always enjoyed being in the woods. I know how to hunt, fish, set traps and snares, build shelters, find clean water etc, etc.

In the cold light of day - would I do well in a global catastrophy - perhaps short term.

Who do I think will do well? People like my father and my brother. They are both tinkerers of the first order. They are the type of people who've done so much with so little for so long - they are now qualified to do anything with nothing. They are also workaholics - something I am not.

They would soon have power up, vehicles working, machines making things, dwellings built, while I'd be living in my tent - running a trot line.

They are pioneer stock - the type of people who see no point in sleeping on the ground if you can build a bed, no use for roughing it if you can make things easier. And if TSHTF, I hope they're around.

[Elkchsr]

The strong
The knowledgeable
The well supplied
The top dogs in the hierarchy (because they are always thinking of themselves first)

[carcajou garou]

The ones would can mentally adapt fast enough and have the skills to back that attitude up.

[Nativedude]

The "doers"! The "talkers" are just that. They talk a good game, but when it comes time to do. . .well they don't do so well.

I see it with groups I take out. I get the people that tell the others (in the group) "I can do this or that. . .np", but when it comes down to the nut cuttin'. . .well, I see them fall short. Then comes the plethora of excuses. . ."well this or that wasn't right" or "this or that is different than when I did it before!" It happens A LOT with fire starting. When they can't get it started they're ALWAYS ready with the excuses! Next, they get mad and then they're embarrassed and don't want to learn the right way to do, because they spouted off that they already could. . .np! :)

If you're gonna survive when the SHTF or in the wilds, you better be a "doer"!

[Elkchsr]

Pride is a dangerous trait when it gets in the way of lifes lessons and learning from those willing to teach

[Rick]

Those who know how to adapt.
Those who know how to take advantage of what is available.
The very very lucky.

[Jay]

The ones would can mentally adapt fast enough and have the skills to back that attitude up.

I'll second that!

[FVR]

Starting fires and pride. Few years back, arrived at the rendezvous site late, set up my little camp. Dug a little pit, and tried to start a fire. Man, I could not start a fire to save my butt. Now, I've been starting fires with flint and steel for over ten years.

Most times, get my wood set up, get my tinder ready, check the char, and spark it. Not today.LOL. Finally, I got up, walked up to the gent about 30 yards away, "hello, the camp" we talked, I bummed a light. Old man just laughed, "sometimes, it's a royal pain" been there done that.

We laughed. I took my coal and started the fire and cooked my chicken.

Moral of the story, no matter how salty ya are, sometimes yer just green.

[trax]

Who will do well if TSHTF? Why those who have acquired their survival education here of course....and utlize it.

[Beo]

The smart one's.

[canid]

don't forget the sarcastic ones. we're all smart a@#s around here, and i have a feeling we'd all do relatively well.

[Kemperor]

This is a case of you'd just have to wait to see. It all depends on how attached you are to living comfortably, and most importantly how wise you either are or can become.

[dilligaf2u2]

I think it would be those with the ability to survive till they are able to adapt.

I see it all the time. My son can not start a fire these days unless he has matches. He used to be able too but has not in a very long time and he does not even want to try. He can not drive a stick shift truck and he does not want to learn how. If he can not carry it with him he will gripe that it is not there. He is not going to survive but will sit there and die waiting on someone to do it for him. Like they did after Katrina.

The lame and lazy will try to make you think you have to help them. They are of the idea someone will come and bail them out of what will be. All the annalists say a world wide depression is emanate. That there will be 2 kinds of people. Those that will not survive and those that prepare. Nature has a way to cleans itself.

I myself am old and TDW has medical issues. We would survive longer then the lame and lazy. As for Bugging out to the wilds and trying to survive. Not on your life. It will be a mad house out there with the hoards of people trying to live off limited resources and taking what they want from the weaker. That and I can live fine right here for months and months with what I have.

Once the few that remain are living like animals and once the resources here have dried up. I will think about going out there and taking what they have from them. Think 1830's old west USA and Australia. You had 2 types of people before common sense and population grew to the point where laws were enforced. The takers and the taken. God made all men and Mr Colt made them equal.

Think the movie Water world! Takers and the taken.

The idea is to be around to be a taker.

Once things stabilize and I hope I am still here at home when that happens. You will be able to adapt to the new way of doing things under a world with some law and order. Till that time you best be ready for what ever life throws at you.

Don

[Rick]

All the annalists say a world wide depression is emanate.
Don - I'd be interested in reading your source on this. I'm not aware of any reputable analyst predicting a depression.

But I'm with you on the rest of the post!

By the way, if we prepare to expect the unexpected then isn't the unexpected expected? Hmm.

[Beo]

So true Rick, but how much wood would a woodchuck chuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. :D So Don, your of the mind of the strong survive and weak fall by the wasteside... in a sense. I agree with your post, the depression i'm not to sure on.

[Beo]

You cannot anticipate your actions, or the actions of others based on this approach, because this view is purely void of reason...

Remy loved the post Doc, (my new nickname for you, no offense intended I think your pretty intelligent, sort of our own Doc Sigmon Frued:D)

But I do believe you can anticipate your own actions, I know without a doubt I would not hesitate to kill anyone to protect my wife and child and mother and father (yeah in-laws too) from any threat I deem needs to be handled in that manner, and in the military and martial arts training we learned to anticipate peoples next moves, and people watching shows one to some extint why and how people act to certain things. Now on a large scale it is hard to predict how people will act but looking at what people do now helps to see how others will react. People are people no matter where you go, most people act basically the same.
"The lame and lazy" is quiet offensive. But its reality, if your weak in a SHTF scenario and I need what you got (seriously doubt it though) I'm gonna take it, but thats part of the strong survive and weak fall by the waste side.
And I also take offense at the idea that after Katrina people just "sat there."
Again reality, some did not heed the warning to leave before the storm, and they suffered because of it, terrible as it is and I feel for them it is a true fact, some decided not to go and then had to wait to be rescued, but there were others that stayed and lived through it protecting what was theirs and did okay through it.
As for the rest I agree with you.

[Rick]

I'm with Beo on this one. On the Katrina issue, if you live in a city that's below sea level how much common sense does it take to understand you might have to leave at some point? Especially when a cat 4 or 5 hurricane is boring down on you?

And how much common sense does it take to understand that you might have to leave your home, regardless of where you live, for some reason be it power outage, chemical spill, etc. ?

I do agree with you about being prepared. The squirrel works all during the fall to hide nuts and he's fully prepared for winter. Then a hawk grabs him. The same is true for us. We build the perfect survival kit only to have our house (and our kits) blown away in a tornado. But being prepared does mitigate some risk so the preparation does improve ones chances of being a survivor.

I fully appreciate your comments on living from paycheck to paycheck. We probably have fewer people saving and higher credit card debt than at any time in our history. But whose fault is that?

I actually think we (humans) are elitists. Animals may not have a moral or ethical code to live by but I think we do. That does elevate us. Not saying we're better but I am saying we have a higher obligation and reasoning.

[corndog-44]

The strong
The knowledgeable
The well supplied
The top dogs in the hierarchy (because they are always thinking of themselves first)

Before I retired a couple of young fellas told me seriously that if they were the top dog of the government that they would make all old people walk into the gas chamber because the old people are a burden to society. So if the TSHTF, is this what the older generation have to look forward to? If this comes to past, why should I care if TSHTF?

[Sourdough]

Before I retired a couple of young fellas told me seriously that if they were the top dog of the government that they would make all old people walk into the gas chamber because the old people are a burden to society. So if the TSHTF, is this what the older generation have to look forward to? If this comes to past, why should I care if TSHTF?

Corndog-44, that was not my take on what Elkchsr posted.........but, maybe you are correct. But this is my question to you why get upset about what people say or think......? Why not just smile like you know something that they don't....and let them worry that there daydream might backfire. Remember there is way more of us (old geezers) then there are young whipper'snappers. I want to embody what "Elkchsr" say, I want to be STRONG, Be Knowledgeable, and be well supplied. And be damn proud to do it as a, "OLD PEOPLE"........

[Sam]

I've never met a 'weak' old person. Can't get 'old' being weak

[canid]

you haven't met my grandmother. she didn't get old weak, she got weak old.

[Smok]

Bad that stinks :D

[Rick]

I'm surprised at the number of forums proclaiming what a burden older people are on our society. It's pretty disgusting. I read through one about a week ago and some kid was on there mouthing about the cost of the elderly and how they served no purpose. I explained to him that his views were indicative of his lack of upbringing. I don't think he understood. His kind will not survive. Someone will see to that.

A lot of elderly won't survive. Neither will most of those who are already sick or injured. A lot of it boils down to pure luck regardless of how prepared or unprepared you are.

[Beo]

Haaaaaaa! Got your atention didn't it. Sometimes I go off on a rant, for whatever reason I don't know, could be me venting, could be me arguing my point, could be me feeling the need to impose my will upon other people, most likely i'm stiring the pot up here and listening to what comes back and laughing and learning. BUT I WOULD NEVER LINE UP OLD PEOPLE AND MARCH THEM INTO A GAS CHAMBER (I know no one said I did, I'm just saying). That I take offense too, those old people are our history, they gave us what we have today, fromour freedoms to our history, and even our problems. I can sit here and type that if you were old and weak and had something I wanted, I take it. Real life fact I'd only do that to an elderly person if I were in dire straits of life and death, more than likely i'd bring them with me and help them through the best I could with whatever they needed. The elderly, have so much to share and teach us, tell us about that I feel they are a true living history of our country. I'm a cop, most of you know this, I took this job after 8 years in the military because I wanted to help people (guess I was young and dumb) and after 16 years of doing it I have found out a few things, ya can't help people that don't want or won't execpt any help, during the riots here and in Columbus for the KKK rally's: most common people stayed home and the thugs and bad element were stopped by a line of officers that controlled the situation. During blackouts (sure everyone called 911, but got put on hold) people stayed inside. And the ones who hate the police are the ones that are always calling with problems. In a SHTF real world scenario if you secured your home, you could wait it out because emergency personal will be called in to control threats and maintain security. So order would return but it would take a little time. Now a nuke strike in several major cities could be other problems.
Beo,

[wareagle69]

there are many ppl who claim to be prepared. they think because they can start a fire when camping they are pioneers my new teacher says most ppl who spend their time on these sites think they have the skills because they have read about it but how much applied knowledge do they have? i am guilty of this myself i spend most of my training on wild edibles thinking that i can start a fire whenevere i need to so i don't spend much time practising that skill except the fire i lite every day for heat and i allow myself only one match but i know i should not be wasting my oportunities to start fires by friction.
the mental aspect of a shtf scenario not many can predict i know that ppl think they would react a certain way. when beowulf says he could kill to protect i tend to beleive him as he is a deputy sherrif. but killing is allot harder than you think what if it was a 12 year old girl with a gun? i speak from experience on this.

[Beo]

I too am bad at practicing all my skills, I suc at wild edibles (my problem is I always say I'll just eat meat & fish if I have too), and I can imagine the trouble people would have with shooting not just a 12yr old girl but anyone, saying you'd kill someone is a big difference from actually doing it, and it is a fact (Rick I can get you the source) that a 100% trained shooter becomes a 62% shooter in a gun battle, that drop is staggering to someone in my line of work. So the average person with no military or law enforcement training is even worse than 62% (lets not argue I'm pretty sure some of you hunters woudn't hesitate to pull the trigger). I have pulled my weapon so many times I cannot count, Cincinnati is not a large city by New York or L.A., Miami or even Chiacgo standards, but it is rated in the ten for violent crime. I am damn glad I never had to shoot anyone, and have know some real good deputies and city coppers that have shot someone and have a hard time dealing with it and had to retire. I have seen guys in the military I thought were strong hard charging hoooya go getters fold under pressure when the rounds started flying and pulled their head outta their azz after someone snatched a knot in them to make them do what had to be done. So yeah I think takng a life is aloooooooooot harder than some on here think.
And WE that was a great post.

[nell67]

I agree with you Beo,our elderly are our living past,we all could learn from them,if we gave them the chance,not only would we learn,but we sure would brighten their day to have a reason to get up in the morning besides turning on the tv and listening to the gloom and doom.

Wareagle,I hope I never have to encounter the situation you described,and I really feel for all of you that have had to make that choice,I believe I could do what I had to do in that situation,and it is easy to sit here and say that ,it would be something that would weigh on my heart and my mind for a long time,just thinking about it happening today,somewhere in the world sickens me,that 12 year old is dead no matter what,chances are someone will kill her before she kills them,or else she will be killed along with her family if she refuses to take that gun.

[Rick]

Beo - No need for sources on this. One of the reasons snipers are two man teams is the psychology that one man might not take the shot depending on the target.

Practice is one thing I do. I suck at fire by friction and practice it every day. My trips into the woods are just for that reason. I pick one subject and practice it. I have no idea whether I'm good enough to make it. I just like the idea that I can do something my grandfather and ggggggg grandfathers did.

[Beo]

I too try to practice all my skills at some point in time when out in wilds, the I.D. of plants is rough for me as most books have different pics and they just don't look the same in the woods although I know the common plants of the areas and lands around here. My fire starting is real good, shelter making is good, and water source finding & flitering are good also (still practice them though), and my basic first aid is always getting better and I can handle alot of situations, flint napping is coming along but it takes time to get real good, and scouting-tracking-and hunting are very good as is animal identification although this seems to be a skill most ignore, rock climbing and rappelling are good, water crossing and canoing are good too. Not big on horsemenship although I love horses (I thnk this is a survival skill) I'm trying to get more rounded out but those damn plants give me fits.

[crashdive123]

I agree with you Beo. You just never know how you or somebody else will respond in any shtf situation. We had a fairly serious situation on one of the submarines I was on where we went a whole lot deeper than we would have liked. Everybody did what they were supposed to and things turned out fine. After it was all over one of the guys, who did everything he should have, could not function. He never did another day at sea after that patrol. People reacted the way they were trained....old saying "Train the way you will fight, because you will fight the way you train" Unfortunately for my friend, it was afterr the "fighting" was over that the problems crept in.

[Smok]

I am one of those OLD people and do not plan to go quietly in to that long good night I will rage agent the dieing of the light... Beo you are right it is very hard to kill even an animal when I trapped I killed 6 or 12 times a day after a will it gets to you if it did not I think I would be more concerned . The time I had to kill I could not , instead I put my gun down an put 5 men in the hospital but I was young then I could not fight like that now the police got a big kick out of the hole thing.. said I should have killed them . I said hay and then I would be in jail .. He said ah but then he would not have to worry about them an more :D

[wareagle69]

i have put some thought into this, if the shtf and i lived near the coasts i think i would own a yatch nothing spectacular maybe a 50 footer and then ride out for say 6 months to a year then come back to land and take a look see

[Sourdough]

i have put some thought into this, if the shtf and i lived near the coasts i think i would own a yatch nothing spectacular maybe a 50 footer and then ride out for say 6 months to a year then come back to land and take a look see

I don't get why this is not the number one choice. Unlimited food, deer, crab, shrimp, prawns, 20 kinds of fish, free drift wood for wood stove. Ten thousand clear fresh pure water creeks (no filter, no treatment). Everything from Cordova to Bellingham, thousands of deep bays and coves. No golden Hordes. Any old trawler or barge, build a 12' by 24' cabin on deck. Have someone tow it to the bay of choice. Have a 19' runabout for beer runs till the SHTF. Now just need a good women that can cook and can.

[wareagle69]

you could hide out easy enough with all the talk of ppl worried about someone taking their stuff allot less chance of someone getting ahold of ya more i thik about it the more i like it, only small problem, how to sail a boat.

[Sourdough]

Don't sail the boat....just park it in a deep bay. I like the barge idea, say 40' wide by 70' long. A old grain barge. build a cabin on deck, and tow it where you want it.

[wareagle69]

gotta be able to move it somehow, need to go from bay to bay do not want to overharvest any one area.

[Sourdough]

gotta be able to move it somehow, need to go from bay to bay do not want to overharvest any one area.

You could not over harvest those deep bays ever, even with 40 people, 12 dogs and 8 cats trying hard.

[Smok]

hopeak ..What would the Government say about you doing that ? Would you need a permit or something ? How along would they lat you stay in one place would you have to move allot ? I love the Inland Passage and have a small sail boat but the barge is a great idea

[Sourdough]

hopeak ..What would the Government say about you doing that ? Would need a permit or something ? How along would they lat you stay in one please would you have to move allot ? I love the Inland Passage and have a small sail boat but the barge is a great idea

ODD, you would ask that "Smok", The answer is I don't know. What is odd is we have been trying to fine the answer to that for two weeks.

[Smok]

If you find out anything please let me know

[wareagle69]

are you talking real time or scenario? in a scenario i would not worry about it in real time all you would have to do is move from inlet to inlet and that is only if the coast guard came around and said anything, i know of ppl who live on their boats for the summer in the same spot and do not get hassled.but different places have different rules

[Rick]

WE - It's no problem to sail a boat. Just put a "For Sail" sign on it.:D

[nell67]

That was just wrong Rick,funny,but wrong:D

[Sourdough]

If you find out anything please let me know

The Fed's via the Coast Guard say, do not block navigable waters, and don't polute. If you don't do those two you can stay in one spot till h*ll freezes, they don't care.

The Alaska state troopers see no problem unless you interfer with a commercial fishery, say herring, salmon, etc.

My idea is that one would be at the head of a bay, next to a small fresh water stream, and you could use a 100' garden hose to gravity feed water to the barge. You could have a honey bucket on board and a hand dug hole 400' from shore to dump it into. Or a outhouse on land well back from shore.

You could move using the anchor line and a small runabout.

[Rick]

I would think this idea along the inside passage would be the ideal. Protected from the ocean by the barrier islands, constant temperature and don't have to worry about ice. Plenty of fresh water streams. You may have hit upon something here, Hopeak.

[canid]

you would be protected from ocean swells but you would be exposed to some seriously gnarly tidal currents. it's still a tradeoff. on the other hand, the inlets around the passage are almost invariably rich feeding grounds for bait-fish, and hence provide good fishing, many marine mammals such as seal and sea lion and many of the islands harbr sitka deer and bear, who don't see many people up close :D i still think you guys are right that it would be a great approach.

[Sourdough]

Sounds better than moving to Northern Idaho and fending off the so called golden hords or is it herds, Ha-Ha.

Everybody in America will be heading to the ranch of the Godfather of survival.

[Beo]

Maybe I'll just go underground and hideout in the huge sewer system and steal, take, plunder and pillage what I need.

[wareagle69]

i wouldn't call my self godfather most folks just call me sir.

[Sourdough]

O.K. I did my thinking outside of the Box. Now it is your turn, Really.....Really what are some other ideas. This whole current SHTF survivalisum mentality can be traced to a very few books, devoid of original thought. I think the key is: Where is there food? Kansas, large lakes, etc..... If everyone (three hundred and sixty-five MILLION) runs to Canada and Alaska that won't work. Better to find pockets all over to head to.

[Beo]

Let'em all go to Canada and Alaska, then I got the rest of the world for myself ;)

[Rick]

Well. It's not very original but like I've said. Clean water, protection and food are some of your primary concerns. All these folks are going to abandon their homes, pack what they can in the car and bug out. That's 40-50 gallons of water per home (hot water tank). Every semi and train will be parked. I'm sure we'll scrounge enough food from them to keep going. As for protection, where better than the place you know? All the corn that's on the ground in the Midwest means a good crop every year. Plus all the factory farms for tomatoes and other vegies that will volunteer to come up.

The show Beo mentioned on another thread (What Happens After We are Gone) said the Hoover Damn would continue producing electricity for two years after man kind was gone. The hydro generators would just keep spinning.

[Assassin Pilot]

hah, that would be awesome. They keep making electricity until everything just overpowers and blows (I know it won't actually blow up, but I like to think it will)

I think most people would stay where they are though

[trax]

wow, imagine if some alien race like landed here...and and...like we were all wiped out and and....all these tv sets and computers were still running....never mind, I have to go get another baggie of mushrooms.

[Beo]

Shrooms dude, been snort'n em all night.

[Rick]

So that's what those chunky things are that are hangin' from your nose. Dude!

[Sourdough]

hah, that would be awesome. They keep making electricity until everything just overpowers and blows (I know it won't actually blow up, but I like to think it will)

O.K. Why....as honestly as you can answer why would you like that. I truely would like to understand why that would please you......?

[nell67]

So that's what those chunky things are that are hangin' from your nose. Dude!

eeewwwww 'shroom boogies!

[Tony uk]

WE - It's no problem to sail a boat. Just put a "For Sail" sign on it.:D

5 words mate, Engine



Also hello rick, hows you ?

[Rick]

That's only four and a comma. English a second language?

[nell67]

ewww you gotta change the color of the small print:eek:!

[Beo]

That's one word and six letters only counting Engine, I see the Scottish school system is as good as the American one. And those boogies are for survival food later on.

[Tony uk]

ewww you gotta change the color of the small print:eek:!

Shhhh Its hideing :cool:

[trax]

eeewwwww 'shroom boogies!

now we know what he's got that long tongue for

[Tony uk]

now we know what he's got that long tongue for

Cleaning his armpits ofcourse

[Smok]

hopeak .... Thanks I am getting a better idea of about the Gov. and about the pack :D I do not think they are water dogs :eek: If so many people are going to be in cars , then how many will be in boats ? I would think the coast would be a better place to hide . Only if your boat could be hidden from the Gov. or Pirates much the same thing , then you would need a BIG gun . Because ..you are or will be shooting at boats not just men and at much farther out I would hope :cool:

[Assassin Pilot]

Make your own potato-gun and buy some grenades. That would be a b!7ch to aim on water, but if you do you hit the target, that would be some nasty damage. (they might just retreat when they see you can launch grenades)